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Barnaby and Scott are two people I literally see no upside to, to anyone. Lets be honest, Aussie elections are a popularity contest and the idea that these two people are popular frankly disturbs me
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Nov 10, 2021 05:26
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abigserve posted:Barnaby and Scott are two people I literally see no upside to, to anyone. Lets be honest, Aussie elections are a popularity contest and the idea that these two people are popular frankly disturbs me Scare campaigns, vote buying and a complicit media. And as much as we take notice of the rorts, lying, and scandals, a good proportion of the public just roll their eyes and say "all politicians are the same".
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Nov 10, 2021 08:55
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Capt.Whorebags posted:Scare campaigns, vote buying and a complicit media. And opposition that's pretty much openly token at this point. Anyone who actually tries to do anything gets turfed out fast for reasons that no one can actually explain.
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Nov 10, 2021 08:59
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Cartoon posted:Old news I guess, but amoung all the face planting and belly flopping from the actual PM sometimes we miss.. Ladies and Gentlemen, The Deputy PM: If he's talking about Rudd and Turnbull then gently caress him, if he's talking about Keating, he's right abigserve posted:Barnaby and Scott are two people I literally see no upside to, to anyone. Lets be honest, Aussie elections are a popularity contest and the idea that these two people are popular frankly disturbs me They key thing to remember is that the 10ish per cent of Australians who are swing voters are completely disengaged from politics. They see Morrison on the TV doing pressers and think "yep that's the Prime Minister all right," they vaguely remember some poo poo about the Liberals being good economic managers, they read some Tele headline about how Bill Shorten wants to tax them more, they walk into the booth and cast a vote and don't think about it again for three years. Think of it like sport, where if you're not interested you tune out when it pops up on the evening news and they start talking about AFL transfers and embattled coaches with names that you vaguely recognise but don't give a gently caress about. Or if you are interested in sport, think of it as one of the specific sports you're not interested in. Maybe you notice when Emma Radacanu makes history at the US Open, but you're not paying attention when the 80th seed drops out of Indian Wells. Joyce is excepted from this because the Nationals are a historic relic of our byzantine electoral system. But in any case it's pretty funny that the modern slick Liberal Party, even when headed up by some silver spoon banker like Turnbull, is contractually obliged to have as its deputy some drunken poo poo-for-brains hick from beyond the black stump.
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Nov 10, 2021 09:51
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The Victorian government has finally decided to release some public details of their big proposed reforms to the planning system: http://reform.planning.vic.gov.au Predictably it’s centred in language about economic recovery, which is funny given the report they are basing the reform program off was written before COVID-19 escaped China en masse. It’s almost as if they always wanted to hand even more power to the development industry and are using COVID as an excuse  On top of that, launching a planning reform program in 20fucking21 that doesn’t have climate change adaptation and mitigation front and centre is some mix of cowardice and lunacy.
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Nov 10, 2021 11:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And opposition that's pretty much openly token at this point. Anyone who actually tries to do anything gets turfed out fast for reasons that no one can actually explain. Don't be so harsh, there'll be some really bold policies outlined during Albo's concession speech on election night.
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Nov 10, 2021 11:38
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Serious question: Who was the last Australian Politician that people could actually get excited about? Left or Right. To my mind Kevin07 comes closest, but I still reckon that doesn't count coz the hype there was just that he was "not John Howard".
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Nov 10, 2021 12:02
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Hawke? (Bob, not Alex).
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Nov 10, 2021 12:08
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BrigadierSensible posted:Serious question: I think it was also a big "not Kim Beazely" thing.
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Nov 10, 2021 12:16
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BrigadierSensible posted:Serious question: Whitlam
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Nov 10, 2021 12:33
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I still occasionally am tempted to run a meme political party to give the state an actual name. I'm not picky on what, just a name
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Nov 10, 2021 12:54
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BrigadierSensible posted:Serious question: Scotty 2 Hotty Ludlam, but he was to good for Canberra.
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Nov 10, 2021 13:37
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BrigadierSensible posted:Serious question: I really liked Stott Despoja for a while, but well. "Keep the Bastards Honest" was a nice dream while it lasted.
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Nov 10, 2021 14:12
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NPR Journalizard posted:Scotty 2 Hotty Ludlam, but he was to good for Canberra. His resignation and the fallout from it is still one of the funniest things to happen to Auspol in the last few years.
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Nov 10, 2021 14:16
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I thought Shorten had some great policies and ideas about future direction and when Morrison pulled it out of the bag I was so crushed that I will literally never care about Australian politics again. edit: I want to leave a note here that it took me over a minute to remember his name Chadzok fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 20:27
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It’s incredible how everyone forgets that the alp took an expansive detailed set of policies to the 2019 election and lost because the media repeated and amplified Morrison’s lies about it. Now everyone is complaining that the alp arent bringing a big policy agenda months out from this election. I wonder why. I don’t love albo by any means but they are running a very careful and deliberate strategy to win the election. The campaign is built and ready to run as soon as the date is declared. The electorate doesn’t have a clear picture of albo in their minds, so they will do what they did in 07 to create a picture in the run up to the poll while they launch policies at a time when the media is paying them equal attention and too late for the government and Murdochs to do their months of hate. I’m not saying it will work. I don’t know if Albo is a good enough communicator to pull it off. But it is very obvious what they are doing and why.
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Nov 10, 2021 20:46
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They could a scare campaign from 10 years ago, and the general public wouldn't know the difference and vote LNP anyway.
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Nov 10, 2021 20:56
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I still occasionally am tempted to run a meme political party to give the state an actual name. I'm not picky on what, just a name The great thing about Australia is that there's three different jurisdictions you could be talking about here
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Nov 10, 2021 21:45
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The political commentariat is pretty much agreeing that you can't win government from opposition with a big reform agenda. It's just too easy to counter by the incumbents. Get elected on the "safe pair of hand" milquetoast platform and then outline a case for change. ALP can still trade on the themes that they have "ownership" of such as education, health, worker exploitation. But they're not going to win making promises about taxation reform or shaking up the housing market. LNP is still using last election's scare tactics whilst co-opting their policies and simply saying "it's bad policy under Labor, good policy under Coalition".
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Nov 10, 2021 21:53
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Beffer posted:It’s incredible how everyone forgets that the alp took an expansive detailed set of policies to the 2019 election and lost because the media repeated and amplified Morrison’s lies about it. No, they brought a jumbled and confusing set of policies to the 2019 election and lost because their focus on franking credits didn't capture the imagination of the general electorate
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Nov 10, 2021 22:59
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They're not going to engage in tax reform or touch the housing market lol.
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Nov 10, 2021 23:11
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If they run a campaign on how much of a fuckup Morrison and his cronys have been they'd win for sure. If they take the path of  and just run on policy reforms they're hosed.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:50
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Beffer posted:It’s incredible how everyone forgets that the alp took an expansive detailed set of policies to the 2019 election and lost because the media repeated and amplified Morrison’s lies about it. I don't want a comprehensive policy platform from Albo. I want him to run a small target Tony Abbott campaign and oppose everything the LNP are doing rather than just waving this bullshit through.
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Nov 11, 2021 02:46
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Problem with that approach is that everything the coalition does is already small target. In the two terms from 2007 to 2013 we got: NDIS Stolen generations apology NBN Carbon Price Gonski Renewables Investment. From 2013 to now there are few landmarks, and some like marriage equality only happened because the Coalition was dragged into it kicking and screaming. Most things they've done have been eroding away at things put In place by the previous government. I am surprised Labor aren't going harder on how much the Coalition hosed up the submarine deals, that is a massive thing to hit at.
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Nov 11, 2021 03:44
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Senor Tron posted:I am surprised Labor aren't going harder on how much the Coalition hosed up the submarine deals, that is a massive thing to hit at. The hopeless optimist in me is hoping that they are quietly making notes about all the fuckups and are going to blitz advertising before clive can buy it all again. They aren't, because they are the alp, but i can hope.
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Nov 11, 2021 04:53
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bell jar posted:No, they brought a jumbled and confusing set of policies to the 2019 election and lost because their focus on franking credits didn't capture the imagination of the general electorate Yes all the ALP spoke about in 2019 was franking credits. That certainly wasn't the government, News Limited and Clive Palmer.
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Nov 11, 2021 05:32
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Senor Tron posted:I am surprised Labor aren't going harder on how much the Coalition hosed up the submarine deals, that is a massive thing to hit at. This would be a straight gift to Morrison who absolutely wants to wedge ALP on national security. No matter how good or bad they are, Defence and Border Protection are home ground for the Coalition who are seen as having a better handle on it. It's one of those topics that the more airplay it gets - good or bad - results in a positive outcome for the LNP.
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Nov 11, 2021 05:50
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Beffer posted:Yes all the ALP spoke about in 2019 was franking credits. That certainly wasn't the government, News Limited and Clive Palmer. if your policy can't cut through its opponents arguments it's a bad policy  nobody deserves a free run into office
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Nov 11, 2021 06:32
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Surprised this hasn't been posted. Paul Keating is still v.bad at foreign policy quote:The former Australian prime minister Paul Keating has denounced the US- and UK-backed plan for nuclear-powered submarines as “like throwing a handful of toothpicks at the mountain”, declaring Australia should avoid being drawn into a war with China.
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Nov 11, 2021 07:55
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Hey, you guys do realise Labor does attack all these terrible thing the government does, right? It just never gets reported by the mainstream media cause they're terrible. Like here's a quote by The Monthly's daily news article from today (about Morrison's gaslight attacks on Labor this week) that illustrates the point: https://www.themonthly.com.au/the-politics/rachel-withers/2021/11/2021/1636603066/desperate-and-deranged= posted:With large parts of the media still failing to call out this week’s increasingly outrageous lies by the PM (Sunrise’s Natalie Barr, to her credit, gave it a go), Labor appears to have had enough. Yesterday’s fiery response from Albanese, calling out a reporter from The Sydney Morning Herald for echoing the PM’s “nonsense”, prompted many to wonder where this Albanese had been – though the speech did not get much airtime outside of Twitter. Shadow energy minister Chris Bowen today shared Guardian Australia’s accurate description of the latest EV policy “lie”. “He’s at it again,” Bowen wrote, his frustration palpable. The biggest problem isn't Labor. It's the terrible monopolist media cabal we have. Like, Labor is terrible, but even if they were better, it wouldn't really matter cause they aren't reported on. cogito ergo incommo fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 08:52
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Doctor has told my sister in the UK that if she's not improving in 2 days she's going to be hospitalized. She's had Covid for a week now and she's saying the pain has been unbearable. She's fully vaccinated but it still seems to be something to absolutely avoid if at all possible.
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Nov 11, 2021 09:37
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Tomberforce posted:Doctor has told my sister in the UK that if she's not improving in 2 days she's going to be hospitalized. She's had Covid for a week now and she's saying the pain has been unbearable. She's fully vaccinated but it still seems to be something to absolutely avoid if at all possible. The therapeutics are pretty good now so hopefully if she gets admitted that will do the trick
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Nov 11, 2021 09:50
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bell jar posted:if your policy can't cut through its opponents arguments it's a bad policy That is the worst argument ever. You can say you failed to make your case, your communication was poo poo, etc. but it doesn’t make it a bad policy. It makes it bad politics sure. But the policy. That was fine. See for reference, the carbon tax, a humane refugee policy, treating indigenous Australians with dignity, police reform, and a progressive tax system. All of these things are objectively good policy but propagating them is difficult and can easily lose you the election. No one expects a “free run into office” but if we can’t tell the difference between good politics and good policy, then we are hosed. Beffer fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 11:09
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play semantics all you want, if it was a good policy it would have been easy to communicate and to understand
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Nov 11, 2021 11:51
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bell jar posted:play semantics all you want, if it was a good policy it would have been easy to communicate and to understand Tony Abbott was the best policymaker in living memory,
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Nov 11, 2021 11:55
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bell jar posted:play semantics all you want, if it was a good policy it would have been easy to communicate and to understand You're also playing semantics fyi
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Nov 11, 2021 11:58
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bell jar posted:play semantics all you want, if it was a good policy it would have been easy to communicate and to understand good ≠ easy to communicate and to understand
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Nov 11, 2021 13:11
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Good policy: increasing our humanitarian refugee intake provides economic and societal benefits. We can do the right thing by our fellow human beings and increase the material and social wealth of the nation. You can cite statistics showing that historically Australia has benefited greatly from a large migrant intake, that refugees (even the so called illegals) rapidly settle in here and build a better life, communities are richer etc etc. Counterpoint: STOP. THE. BOATS. Good policy: carbon trading is a proven way to lower emissions, allow legacy industries to adapt, foster innovation in new technologies. Counterpoint: AXE. THE. TAX. It's not that you can't win an argument with good policy, it's that your opponent isn't arguing in good faith, nor is the media. Good policy is complex and nuanced, and can take time to explain. A/V media is looking for a 10 second sound bite, and when good policy results in some people marginally worse off, the media will seek out those voices and amplify them. The in-person leaders debate in the last election saw Shorten talking about his environmental policies and Morrison responding only with "What's it going to cost? You can't tell us what it will cost." This isn't a school debating society where participants are held to the rules, it's a poo poo throwing exercise.
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Nov 11, 2021 22:46
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Budzilla posted:Surprised this hasn't been posted. He’s note talking about Asia as a bloc, he’s talking about Asia as a region. He’s saying what he’s been saying for 30 years, that we need to realise we are an Asian nation, not a European nation in Asia. Imagine one of the many countries in Central Europe that used to be Ottoman acting like they were really part of the Middle East and looking to Iran to guarantee their security. Edit - if anything part of his message has always been that Asia is divided and Australia can be a middle power here, unless we choose to see ourselves as America’s sheriff (or America’s cricket box) in a monolithic and mysterious place where the people look different. Also speaking of the media favouring the coalition, see how little they do to hold him to account for this https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/scott-morrison-says-he-doesn-t-believe-he-s-told-a-lie-in-public-life-20211112-p598bx.html The Artificial Kid fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 23:30
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Capt.Whorebags posted:Good policy: increasing our humanitarian refugee intake provides economic and societal benefits. We can do the right thing by our fellow human beings and increase the material and social wealth of the nation. You can cite statistics showing that historically Australia has benefited greatly from a large migrant intake, that refugees (even the so called illegals) rapidly settle in here and build a better life, communities are richer etc etc. IMO you can explain the good policies countered with STOP THE BOATS and AX THE TAX as much as you want, but the reason they cut through isn't that they were simpler but because they appealed to people's desires. Most people (or a lot of people, in the right electorates) don't want to help foreigners and don't give a toss about climate change.
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Nov 11, 2021 23:36
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