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hobbez posted:I'd agree this is troubling but he is probably a pretty dumb 18 year old that suddenly had a lot of celebrity. I do not think this evidence would inherently discredit his case of self defense. He clearly had pro-right proclivities. That doesn't mean he is a Nazi. One photo does not a Nazi make. Just as I have a feeling some in this thread would argue hanging out with Antifa doesn't automatically make you a violent revolutionary or whatever. i see the 'proud boys aren't nazis' stuff in cspam as well and i'd love to know where the rehabilitation energy is coming from, and if the proud boys themselves know they're not nazis.
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Nov 12, 2021 13:55
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hobbez posted:
Doesn't appear to be a lot of autonomic symptoms. Looks to me like he's just hyperventilating himself.
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Nov 12, 2021 13:58
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Fister Roboto posted:His story is that he went there to provide medical aid. It's obviously bullshit, because there were plenty of field medics at protests all across the country who weren't carrying assault rifles. The medic he shot was armed.
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Nov 12, 2021 14:08
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TheDisreputableDog posted:The medic he shot was armed.
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Nov 12, 2021 14:10
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TheDisreputableDog posted:The medic he shot was armed. Would love to know who the good guy with the gun was in that situation
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Nov 12, 2021 14:23
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Harold Fjord posted:Correctly, given that he was in fact almost murdered by a domestic terrorist Sure - the point being that “a real medic wouldn’t arm themselves” is garbage. Also I’m pleasantly surprised to see the number of trained mental health experts here helping us understand the “correct” way people react under stress and express grief.
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Nov 12, 2021 14:25
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Regarde Aduck posted:i see the 'proud boys aren't nazis' stuff in cspam as well and i'd love to know where the rehabilitation energy is coming from, and if the proud boys themselves know they're not nazis. Think farm teams.
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Nov 12, 2021 14:28
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What medical equipment was he carrying? In general though, his obvious lies should rightly only be considered evidence against him, and it's all the more clear a sign that he's being let off that so much of his statements are being suppressed from the jury.
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Nov 12, 2021 14:46
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What medical equipment was he carrying? Ojection, relevance, or badgering the witness or something Sustained
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Nov 12, 2021 14:57
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How innocent someone is is inversely proportional to the amount of freely offered opinions and statements that a white supremacist legal system disallows a jury from hearing because it will obviously reveal their guilt and depraved state of mind. Also it's sad that the guy killed himself on the steps of the memorial, but his suicide note combined with the public nature of the act comes off as a really sad attempt to hurt and embarrass the girl that dumped him.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:04
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Cranappleberry posted:Here is the actual videos, btw: Quick clarification, under Wisconsin law I believe committing a felony specifically exempts one from a right to self defence, and Rittenhouse's felony was carrying a firearm while underage. That should be a slam dunk for the prosecutor, I'm not sure why they didn't just pursue that line in the first place.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:18
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Probably it was explicitly forbidden by the judge, like all other evidence against him.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:19
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hobbez posted:I initially posted in this thread because I thought there was a strong case to be made that Rittenhouse had redeemed his right to self defense in light of the statutes referenced in a post by another individual. No one has really countered that claim in any substantial way responding to the fact that Rittenhouse was: in flight while being pursued by two individuals, one of which fired a bullet in his general direction. I wouldn't call these facts "weak counter-arguments". That's what accelerated the whole mess. The first shooting victim, yes, it appears he hadn't actually made contact with Rittenhouse in the footage, but he was DEFINITELY chasing him and I don't think it's unreasonable for Rittenhouse to believe his life was in danger especially in lieu of the gunshot. Rittenhouse further testified the man had told him he was going to kill him. Yes, multiple people did. You negate your right to self defense if you purposefully go looking for trouble, which is what he did and the prosecution is trying to prove in court. gently caress off with the selective quoting you troll.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:23
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Harold Fjord posted:Probably it was explicitly forbidden by the judge, like all other evidence against him.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:23
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hobbez posted:I initially posted in this thread because I thought there was a strong case to be made that Rittenhouse had redeemed his right to self defense in light of the statutes referenced in a post by another individual. No one has really countered that claim in any substantial way responding to the fact that Rittenhouse was: in flight while being pursued by two individuals, one of which fired a bullet in his general direction. I wouldn't call these facts "weak counter-arguments". That's what accelerated the whole mess. The first shooting victim, yes, it appears he hadn't actually made contact with Rittenhouse in the footage, but he was DEFINITELY chasing him and I don't think it's unreasonable for Rittenhouse to believe his life was in danger especially in lieu of the gunshot. Rittenhouse further testified the man had told him he was going to kill him. He went seeking trouble, found it, and reacted poorly to the environment, murdering two people. That is not self-defense.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:25
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Turns out it is remarkably easy for teenagers not to shoot people. Millions of teenagers do it every year, even some at this very protest!
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Nov 12, 2021 15:29
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CommieGIR posted:He went seeking trouble, found it, and reacted poorly to the environment, murdering two people. That is not self-defense. In a world of George Zimmermans it apparently is. Just follow people you don't like with your gun, antagonize them, and shoot them, and it's all legal.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:30
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FlamingLiberal posted:That’s not in the judge’s purview Who has the authority to stop him?
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Nov 12, 2021 15:31
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Kyle (15) borrowed a gun from David Duke, flew across the Atlantic and dual wielded his AR-15 and an OK sign at a dog park - fatally shooting and injuring equality in the united states. And all this was legal.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:33
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Push El Burrito posted:In a world of George Zimmermans it apparently is. Just follow people you don't like with your gun, antagonize them, and shoot them, and it's all legal. I think its universally accepted that Zimmerman was a miscarriage of justice, especially with what he's said post trial. And yeah, I get what you are saying, what counts as self-defense in this hellworld of a justice system is warped beyond reason.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:33
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Harold Fjord posted:Who has the authority to stop him?
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Nov 12, 2021 15:35
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It seems like the "proving that specific gun crossed a specific line" is not as clear cut as I would have thought. Not sure if this story evolved but it seems as if proving he crossed state lines with that specific gun would be hard. Kyle Rittenhouse, Accused Kenosha Killer, Won't Face Gun Charges In Illinois
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Nov 12, 2021 15:41
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syntaxrigger posted:It seems like the "proving that specific gun crossed a specific line" is not as clear cut as I would have thought. Not sure if this story evolved but it seems as if proving he crossed state lines with that specific gun would be hard. Well sure, when the gun nut coffee company files off the serial number while publicly fellating you
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Nov 12, 2021 15:47
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Judges do have purview over what evidence is introduced in trial. The judge felt the interview with Kyle at the protest, the video Kyle made and the social media posts from the RW militia Kyle was with (that fantasized and talked up confrontation) would be prejudicial for the jury. This meant that it was virtually impossible for the prosecution to prove motive unless Kyle was shouting it at the protest and it ended up on film or there were eyewitnesses. Testimony from a militia dude Kyle was with and an alt-right "journalist" was the prosecution's own blunder. Among many other things, including over-charging. Kyle was carrying a weapon illegally, regardless. He had a friend get it for him.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:54
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Just amazing that he could walk towards cops with an AR-15 slung in front of him that his left hand keeps reaching towards and not get lit up like a Christmas tree. I think he's going to be found innocent and there will be more riots. My biggest question is if White Nationalist militias are going to take the trial as a sign to be more openly aggressive or just avoid the spotlight for now.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:57
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During the controversial trial, Judge Rittenhouse (no relation) hummed Get Lucky which has a chord progression similar to "Die Fahne hoch". He also raised his pinky and index finger creating the sign of the devil - the evil one not the gay one - and said the sushi had "Gone Bad" (implications clear). In a death blow to justice he disallowed the prosecution from blowing kyle's loving brains out point blank with their federally-provided shotgun. - Barack Hussein Obama, CNN *Editor's note - this article previously stated that the Judge had of his own volition brought a Nazi flag to the court and forced the jury to swear loyalty to it. This is standard state law in Wisconsin.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:03
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Regarde Aduck posted:i see the 'proud boys aren't nazis' stuff in cspam as well and i'd love to know where the rehabilitation energy is coming from, and if the proud boys themselves know they're not nazis. People define Nazi differently, some people in this thread called Trump voters Nazis. To me, that's insane.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:10
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lil poopendorfer posted:People define Nazi differently, some people in this thread called Trump voters Nazis. To me, that's insane. The Proud Boys are, however, Nazi adjacent and for all intents and purposes, Violent Fascists. We're not going to rehabilitate them here. Regarde Aduck posted:i see the 'proud boys aren't nazis' stuff in cspam as well and i'd love to know where the rehabilitation energy is coming from, and if the proud boys themselves know they're not nazis. Let's not encourage cross forums drama, please.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:15
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hobbez posted:I initially posted in this thread because I thought there was a strong case to be made that Rittenhouse had redeemed his right to self defense in light of the statutes referenced in a post by another individual. No one has really countered that claim in any substantial way responding to the fact that Rittenhouse was: in flight while being pursued by two individuals, one of which fired a bullet in his general direction. I wouldn't call these facts "weak counter-arguments". That's what accelerated the whole mess. The first shooting victim, yes, it appears he hadn't actually made contact with Rittenhouse in the footage, but he was DEFINITELY chasing him and I don't think it's unreasonable for Rittenhouse to believe his life was in danger especially in lieu of the gunshot. Rittenhouse further testified the man had told him he was going to kill him. Hey, although you do not have a point of view that I agree with, or that really anybody here agrees with, I appreciate you taking the time to come here and discuss this. Sometimes people confuse "not a D&D poster who is familiar with the range of acceptable opinions" with "a troll". I mean a panel of 12 jurors (albeit with a very biased judge) is extremely likely to come to the same conclusions you have, so clearly it's a position someone can take without being a troll. I'm not sure if Rittenhouse is guilty of first degree intentional homocide (or attempted), even though he's definitely guilty of all other charges - he definitely wanted to kill people and fantasized about killing people and is a total piece of poo poo, but I think he killed those people because he was a little punk who was scared and couldn't handle a situation he had intentionally put himself in. Even if you don't think he's a murderer, consider the injustices in this trial and how lopsided the legal system is when it comes to a white child compared to a black child. Rittenhouse walked up to the police holding a gun and telling them that he shot somebody, was told to "go home" and eventually ended up getting a gold-plated defense. The black version of Rittenhouse would've just been shot on the spot. Think about that, and think about how the trial reflects those realities. Think about how he's unequivocally guilty of a class A misdemeanor (possession of a weapon by a child) that carries up to nine months in prison, killed people because of that misdemeanor, and is probably not going to see a day in prison. Even though a completely dry legal analysis can conceivably clear him of some of the charges, he's getting wildly preferential treatment, largely because the reason he shot people was in support of (probably) white supremacy and (definitely) the racist police force. It's irresponsible to engage with this trial without remember those things. e: welp, I got trolled Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 16:15
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lil poopendorfer posted:People define Nazi differently, some people in this thread called Trump voters Nazis. To me, that's insane. karen:bitch they're interchangeable because it's all just a matter of degrees
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Nov 12, 2021 16:16
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lil poopendorfer posted:People define Nazi differently, some people in this thread called Trump voters Nazis. To me, that's insane. at this juncture, Trump supporters are at minimum going "Hitler has the right idea, his methods are just a little extreme" you lived through the same four years of Trump that i did. you know what went on, what he said and did, what he stands for and who he lies down for. so do they. ignorance is no longer an excuse, if it ever was.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:16
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Your honor, the defendant was acting in self-defense. He was posting jokes in D&D when a mod replied to him, clearly showing intent to probate or worse. Yes he may have acquired the jokes illegally from twitter, and maybe he was looking for some lulz in a 2-star thread. But, as everyone knows, all mods are bastards. Bitch had it coming.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:19
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The worst submarine posted:Your honor, the defendant was acting in self-defense. He was posting jokes in D&D when a mod replied to him, clearly showing intent to probate or worse. Yes he may have acquired the jokes illegally from twitter, and maybe he was looking for some lulz in a 2-star thread. But, as everyone knows, all mods are bastards. Bitch had it coming. Its funny, but knock it off, thanks.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:23
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FlamingLiberal posted:Judges don’t determine charges So? The judge here is ordering the prosecution not to talk about all kinds of relevant evidence and I don't see how he could be prevented from doing more of that if needed
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Nov 12, 2021 16:23
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CommieGIR posted:Its funny, but knock it off, thanks.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:29
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Harold Fjord posted:So? The judge here is ordering the prosecution not to talk about all kinds of relevant evidence and I don't see how he could be prevented from doing more of that if needed Yes, a judge could absolutely find that, as a matter of law, no jury could find that he met the elements of a charge, like Manslaughter, and dismiss that charge regardless of what a jury had already said, or was about to say. I don't think he would make that determination until the end of the trial after all evidence had been presented, though.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:30
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:An Air Force sergeant posted his suicide note to Instagram, went to the Lincoln Memorial, and shot himself in the head on the steps. Mellow Seas posted:Hey, although you do not have a point of view that I agree with, or that really anybody here agrees with, I appreciate you taking the time to come here and discuss this. Sometimes people confuse "not a D&D poster who is familiar with the range of acceptable opinions" with "a troll".
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Nov 12, 2021 16:53
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AmiYumi posted:I, too, am completely incapable of remembering names or checking rap sheets. Every post is a brand new mystery and so are faces, you’re not my granddaughter where am i Mr President, it's an honor.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:59
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AmiYumi posted:I, too, am completely incapable of remembering names or checking rap sheets. Every post is a brand new mystery and so are faces, you’re not my granddaughter where am i Yeah I wasn't familiar with the poster and didn't check the rap sheet, I got owned on this one. 
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Nov 12, 2021 17:02
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AmiYumi posted:This seems like it’s only getting traction because of the Air Force connection, which is just so shittily on-brand for America. “Mental health, blah blah who gives a gently caress, try not being gay or some poo poo w/e. ONE OF ARE TROOPZ DID IT BECAUSE OF A GIRL? We need a National discussion on this immediately, finally a reason to care!!” Maybe? But I'll take it. The note the guy left certainly resonates with ways I have thought in the past and sometimes think today. Living with clinical depression sucks no matter who you are or where you are in life, that's kind of the clincher of it all. I do not have suicidal ideation at this point in my life, but the depression never goes away.
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Nov 12, 2021 17:28
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