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I mean they do seem to have at least one Echo quality: the ability to speak and be understood regardless of language.
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Nov 11, 2021 07:13
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Jetrauben posted:I mean they do seem to have at least one Echo quality: the ability to speak and be understood regardless of language.
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Nov 11, 2021 07:27
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Language is always ignored unless it needs not to be. Everyone can speak Garlean, Hingan, Eorzean, and everything in between anyways.
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Nov 11, 2021 07:28
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i mean when you meet hraesvelgr alphie pretty explicitly says he understand him despite not knowing the language, which presumably would mean this is unusual for him despite hanging with us
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Nov 11, 2021 10:49
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Basically, dragons speak with such firm conviction that everyone understands them despite speaking in another language. They're aliens, don't think about it too hard. I actually think the weirdest part is that there's two instances of language that I know of that we can't understand, even with the Echo: the mandragoras of Hildibrand's storyline (presuming that's a language, at least), and the scroll found in Nybeth's lair. Not Nybeth himself, who we can understand just fine, but Nybeth's writings.
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Nov 11, 2021 10:56
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Cleretic posted:Basically, dragons speak with such firm conviction that everyone understands them despite speaking in another language. They're aliens, don't think about it too hard. Also Alpha (until the end of the raid series)
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Nov 11, 2021 11:11
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thetoughestbean posted:Also Alpha (until the end of the raid series) Supposedly we don't understand Alpha because he doesn't have a true soul yet until the end of the series. Maybe it's the same with the mandragoras? Interestingly, do we ever actually have examples of the Echo working on a written language? It would make sense if it didn't.
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Nov 11, 2021 19:16
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Jetrauben posted:Interestingly, do we ever actually have examples of the Echo working on a written language? It would make sense if it didn't. I can't think of any instances where it's made relevant. WoL doesn't understand a lot of things when things get technical, but this is because the WoL has Urianger to do the complicated reading for them.
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Nov 11, 2021 19:40
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Yeah the WoL seems like someone who don't want to think too much and honestly, same.
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Nov 11, 2021 20:45
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Macaluso posted:Yeah the WoL seems like someone who don't want to think too much and honestly, same. Not saying the WoL is dumb, but the WoL seems to value decisive action ahead of deeper strategic or academic thinking. Practical problems. Practical solutions.
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Nov 12, 2021 02:10
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Gearhead posted:Not saying the WoL is dumb, but the WoL seems to value decisive action ahead of deeper strategic or academic thinking. Practical problems. Practical solutions. true, but also, the WoL eats rocks
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Nov 12, 2021 02:19
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Good source of iron and zinc.
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Nov 12, 2021 02:19
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Countblanc posted:true, but also, the WoL eats rocks That is just being polite to Ishgardian hosts
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Nov 12, 2021 02:27
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lick the rocks, WoL
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Nov 12, 2021 02:44
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Y'know with all the new xiv players that have been starting the game, I can't help but wonder if it's a good idea to have the thread title be a spoiler in itself.
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Nov 12, 2021 03:38
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I don't think there's anything specific enough in what's just a Xenosaga pun to be that spoilery.
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Nov 12, 2021 03:42
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SirSamVimes posted:Y'know with all the new xiv players that have been starting the game, I can't help but wonder if it's a good idea to have the thread title be a spoiler in itself. Zenos is all over the marketing. There's some stuff you can avoid spoiling but "Zenos is back" really can't be.
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Nov 12, 2021 03:42
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He's also only dead for about five minutes
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Nov 12, 2021 03:44
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SirSamVimes posted:Y'know with all the new xiv players that have been starting the game, I can't help but wonder if it's a good idea to have the thread title be a spoiler in itself. I suggest we approach it JoJo style, and pick a spoiler so bonkers it won't register as a real thing. But in seriousness, I don't think the current thread title really is a spoiler, because before you meet Zenos it means nothing, and after you do it doesn't really carry anything. I feel similar to how some people get jumpy about someone mentioning, like, Emet-Selch's name; 'there's a good villain with this name' doesn't count as a spoiler, because you only learn his name when it's no longer a spoiler that he's an active villain. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 03:45
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FFXIV Spoiler Thread: Teledji > Adeledji
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Nov 12, 2021 03:55
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Waffleman_ posted:FFXIV Spoiler Thread: Teledji > Adeledji Teledji / Adeledji 1/2 is my favorite anime.
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Nov 12, 2021 04:08
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While I think generally trying not to spoil stuff is good, Zenos's name itself is basically meaningless and he's dead for maybe thirty minutes for new players. Like maybe 10-20 quests depending on how quickly you pick up on the weird katana elf. It could also just be read as a funny jrpg joke and not a serious "yo Zenos is back" 'Course if you watch any of the Endwalker stuff then yeah you know big thick garlean boy never dies. Waffleman_ posted:FFXIV Spoiler Thread: Teledji > Adeledji https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HfraUD-lcM TGLT fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 04:59
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I once did the usual pre-patch joke of "yeah Goku is the final boss of the dungeon" for Swallow's Compass and boy was there egg on my face when I saw who the final boss actually was.
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Nov 12, 2021 05:07
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You see Zenos in a cutscene like 30 minutes after you kill him anyways.
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Nov 12, 2021 05:42
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Zenos is also in two separate trailers after his death
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Nov 12, 2021 05:44
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koji kabuto dies in magma
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Nov 12, 2021 14:35
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The open spoilers on Zenos coming back to life actually got me pretty good because I assumed Elidibus possessing his body was what people were talking about, so Zenos getting his body back for real was actually a surprise. Yes I did not make the in-hindsight-obvious assumption that the mystery swordsman was Zenos.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:13
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Ibblebibble posted:I once did the usual pre-patch joke of "yeah Goku is the final boss of the dungeon" for Swallow's Compass and boy was there egg on my face when I saw who the final boss actually was. This is such a great multi-tiered joke
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Nov 12, 2021 16:22
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https://twitter.com/nash0k1desu/status/1459110886170259456?t=sNLiRBAol1y5hacZ9hzwDA&s=19 My take is Emet shippers stay winning.
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Nov 12, 2021 18:12
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I hope Zodiark is actually an incredibly nice and benevolent force like Hydaelyn but the fact that Ascians are immortal means that despite his intentions, they’ve been tempered and are even more monstrous than he ever wanted them to be since they never died and went back to the lifestream. He actively tried to avoid their fate. Like he, the first primal, embodied to the letter the hopes and intentions of those sacrificed. But because the amaurotians didn’t understand what they were getting into, Zodiark tempered people accidentally and they then bastardized his intended purpose acting like absurd cultists and wanting to sacrifice more people for the greater good, even though he just wanted to help. So when Hydaelyn popped up and split him up, Zodiark was more than willing to be defeated and imprisoned to protect the world from himself. But the Ascians were tempered and believe themselves to be working in service of Zodiark while doing absolutely cruel and horrific things. That allows the stories to end on a “freedom is most important” note, and fits the escalation of “tragic villain” that FF14 has had so far. Can you imagine a more tragic fate for a lawful good being than “locked up and forced to watch, powerless, as chaotic evil people commit constant genocide and horrors in your name BECAUSE of you” and the sympathy one would have for them? poo poo. jokes fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 19:30
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Also maybe that means Hydaelyn and Zodiark can get married
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Nov 12, 2021 19:33
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jokes posted:Also maybe that means Hydaelyn and Zodiark can get married 
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Nov 12, 2021 19:42
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jokes posted:I hope Zodiark is actually an incredibly nice and benevolent force like Hydaelyn but the fact that Ascians are immortal means that despite his intentions, they’ve been tempered and are even more monstrous than he ever wanted them to be since they never died and went back to the lifestream. He actively tried to avoid their fate. Maybe Zodiark just radiates tempering energy, but when we've see primals temper people it was always an intentional effort. And when we've seen the tempered act it's generally been in accordance with what their primal wanted barring when a recent resummoning changes their priorities. Which kinda goes into the other thing - primals act in accordance with the intent and beliefs that summoned them albeit usually twisted. Why would Zodiark suddenly want to bounce when summoned by people that seemed pretty intent on him being their permanent fix? TGLT fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 19:49
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That'd be pretty neat Pretty similar in some ways to Alexander and arguably Ramuh, so it's not particularly farfetched either. Though I can see not wanting to rework that twist too many times.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:50
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So how come Zodiark tempers but Hydaelyn doesn't? Does she grant the Echo or just the Blessing of Light?! Which is responsible for our resistance to tempering?? I feel like these have been somewhat answered but I can't remember the details.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:55
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zodiark is by design a salvation elemental, the problem is just who decides what salvation even means. arguably zodiark sundered himself before hydaelin was even summoned because the ancient survivors weren't united in how to go forward, causing him to pop out elidibus and then elidibus spending a million years in a state of hazy confusion considering zodiark is also meant to be the will of the planet it's a bit weird he's sealed on the moon. the immediately obvious answer is "hydaelin did that", but it also meant the only ones with access to zodiark to give him a unified idea of salvation were people who can just teleport to the moon, so who knows Kazy posted:So how come Zodiark tempers but Hydaelyn doesn't? Does she grant the Echo or just the Blessing of Light?! Which is responsible for our resistance to tempering?? this is an unpopular theory around these parts, but there' always the possibility that hydaelin does temper people. we know from the ascians and tiamat that tempering can be subtle, largely keeping your personality and memories intact but impact your behaviour and decision-making in the presence of the primal. the game also fairly recently introduced a cure to tempering, so, you know a cartoon duck fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 19:55
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Kazy posted:So how come Zodiark tempers but Hydaelyn doesn't? Does she grant the Echo or just the Blessing of Light?! Which is responsible for our resistance to tempering?? The Echo provides protection against tempering, while the Blessing of Light is more of a direct line to Hydaelyn that she can use to empower/protect you when necessary. It's not actually clear that Zodiark or Hydaelyn can temper anyone in their current states, as Emet-Selch mentions that the sundered Ascians they've used to fill Convocation seats in the past have been driven by fanatical devotion and not a magical geas.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:59
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Kazy posted:So how come Zodiark tempers but Hydaelyn doesn't? Does she grant the Echo or just the Blessing of Light?! Which is responsible for our resistance to tempering?? Presumably the same reason Ramuh doesn't go out of his way to temper Gridanians - primals seem to be able to choose who they do and don't temper. If Hydaelyn hasn't tempered people it's probably a consequence of being summoned by people who were horrified by it. Hydaelyn doesn't grant the echo - see the 5.3 cutscene with Elidibus creating an illusory end of days. She just shouts into the void on repeat in a way that only people with the echo can hear. Since the Unsundered all have the Echo in it's full entirety but seem pretty tempered, it's probably safe to say it provides resistance to but not full immunity from tempering. Probably something to do with how tempering unbalances a character's aether. I think the "Blessing of Light" is just her intervening during fights occasionally, like with shielding us from Ultima.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:00
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I bet we end up finishing off the ascians and ending up in a “world of balance” like in final fantasy VI only to go a-venturing to a new continent. I think that only works if Zodiark and Hydaelyn both die or are both benevolent and kept in the background, which makes me think that the ascians are the bad guys and not Zodiark, or Zodiark is bad and Hydaelyn kills him.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:03
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i said it before but hydaelin and zodiark will both sacrifice themselves to charge up our spirit bomb so we can defeat john q final days
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Nov 12, 2021 20:04
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