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FlamingLiberal posted:Have some good news on a Friday  What the gently caress did James Bond Villain reject do this time?  No pardon for you this time Stevie 
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Nov 12, 2021 22:47
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I've always thought President AOC was a fun thought experiment but after seeing how things shook out with Bernie and to a greater extent Corbyn, I hold no illusions as to the likelihood of an actual leftist - even a wishy washy socdem - ever becoming President outside of something like a Huey Long running on a Republican line
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Nov 12, 2021 22:48
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The entire “left” in America is approximately 1/2 as powerful as the QAnon movement
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Nov 12, 2021 22:50
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Epic High Five posted:I've always thought President AOC was a fun thought experiment but after seeing how things shook out with Bernie and to a greater extent Corbyn, I hold no illusions as to the likelihood of an actual leftist - even a wishy washy socdem - ever becoming President outside of something like a Huey Long running on a Republican line Yeah there's about zero chance of it under the current political alignment. A lot can change in 10-20 years, but as it stands, there are just vastly too many conservatives and center-left types relative to everything else.
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Nov 12, 2021 22:50
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Epic High Five posted:I've always thought President AOC was a fun thought experiment but after seeing how things shook out with Bernie and to a greater extent Corbyn, I hold no illusions as to the likelihood of an actual leftist - even a wishy washy socdem - ever becoming President outside of something like a Huey Long running on a Republican line The establishment of both parties would never allow either Bernie or AOC to come within smelling distance of the Oval Office. They're more scared of the left than they are fascists.
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Nov 12, 2021 22:51
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Even Bernie has had people hitting him from the "left" since the end of the primary. There is always a better Scotsman. Bernie committed the same ultimate sin. After decades of having absolutely no influence on national politics due to making independence his personal brand, he started to move the discourse by working with the libs. But he didn't achieve absolute victory, so that's worse than if he continued to do nothing at all.
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Nov 12, 2021 22:52
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th3t00t posted:True
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Nov 12, 2021 22:53
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Rosalind posted:I reside in AOC's district. Thanks thread for reminding me to call her office to thank her for doing a decent job in the face of so many calls for her to do terminally online twitter performative junk that would gain nothing and might backfire tremendously all the while facing death threats and insults from the right. Is voting no on money for Israel so they can afford a welfare state that we deny our own citizens “terminally online twitter performative junk” because that’s kinda a major part of her job and she got bullied into making the wrong vote and then cried about it on camera and then released a completely incoherent statement explaining it
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Nov 12, 2021 22:54
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Rosalind posted:I talked to a nice man on her Queens office constituent line and cited this as a specific example of something I was glad she didn't do. Good for you! You showed those lefties! btw, what percentage of your income does next year's health insurance, deductible & copays eat up? Epic High Five posted:I've always thought President AOC was a fun thought experiment but after seeing how things shook out with Bernie and to a greater extent Corbyn, I hold no illusions as to the likelihood of an actual leftist - even a wishy washy socdem - ever becoming President outside of something like a Huey Long running on a Republican line Yeah, after I saw how they shivved Sanders & Corbyn, plus various downticket candidates for Congress (now continuing through blue state-level redistrcting), I hold no illusions about the chances of any leftists actually effecting change through electoralism. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 22:55
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Delthalaz posted:The entire “left” in America is approximately 1/2 as powerful as the QAnon movement Turns out promoting nice things you'd like to do(if only promises and not actionable) isn't as powerful politically as villifying your opponent.
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Nov 12, 2021 22:56
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So do the department of Justice call bannon's bluff or is this some weird play to prove some sort of loyalty to Trump for 2024.
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Nov 12, 2021 22:57
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Delthalaz posted:The entire “left” in America is approximately 1/2 as powerful as the QAnon movement This is an incredible overstatement lol. Qanon is enormously well funded and has enthusiastic support at all levels of government, and lots of its members that just tried to overthrow the government are all hanging out playing cards with guards in their own wing of a prison where they are organizing and radicalizing exactly like the early Nazis Meanwhile the "left" with any power just got forced by their nominal allies to shoot their own dog lol
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Nov 12, 2021 22:57
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Delthalaz posted:The entire “left” in America is approximately 1/2 as powerful as the QAnon movement There's like five "lefts" in America, and they are all too decorum-poisoned and impotent to achieve anything real, even if they could unite. But that doesn't make them unique, about 60% America is that. Zotix posted:Turns out promoting nice things you'd like to do(if only promises and not actionable) isn't as powerful politically as villifying your opponent. This. The left has the money to actually do some concrete things to better the lives of at least a few million Americans and an opponent who other political parties would kill to be able to poo poo on, but they just don't get that hate works. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 22:58
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Killer robot posted:Bernie committed the same ultimate sin. After decades of having absolutely no influence on national politics due to making independence his personal brand, he started to move the discourse by working with the libs. But he didn't achieve absolute victory, so that's worse than if he continued to do nothing at all. I mean...yeah? I liked Bernie because he seemed to have principles and appeared to be sincere about standing by them. I'm not like, upset, that he's just become a Democrat, but I'm not really interested in what he is up to anymore specifically because he has become integrated into the same system that continues to refuse progress and change. I'd take him over a whole lot of people but he's just another politician at this point.
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Nov 12, 2021 22:59
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Biden still has an entire term, not to even mention another four years afterwards. With Bernie aggressively pushing the President's agenda in town halls, and in the senate. Maybe I'm not as cynical as some in this thread though.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:01
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Doesn't matter how aggressive Bernie is if they don't have the numbers. The system is set up to ensure that they never do.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:02
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Killer robot posted:Bernie committed the same ultimate sin. After decades of having absolutely no influence on national politics due to making independence his personal brand, he started to move the discourse by working with the libs. But he didn't achieve absolute victory, so that's worse than if he continued to do nothing at all. So what, people who supported him should just continue to support him out of blind loyalty even though he's not helping achieve their goals? That's just cult of personality poo poo
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Nov 12, 2021 23:03
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Willa Rogers posted:Good for you! You showed those lefties! I'm stupid so please explain to me how forcing a doomed vote on M4A results in M4A passing. Edit: And since we're asking personal questions: have you pressured your rep to force a vote on M4A? How many times have you called their office? I try to call all my elected representatives at least once a month.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:03
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Epic High Five posted:This is an incredible overstatement lol. Qanon is enormously well funded and has enthusiastic support at all levels of government, and lots of its members that just tried to overthrow the government are all hanging out playing cards with guards in their own wing of a prison where they are organizing and radicalizing exactly like the early Nazis lmao so more like 10%  we are hosed
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Nov 12, 2021 23:05
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papa horny michael posted:Biden still has an entire term, not to even mention another four years afterwards. With Bernie aggressively pushing the President's agenda in town halls, and in the senate. Maybe I'm not as cynical as some in this thread though. I think it's just that we've become acclimated to a style of government where there is only one chance for a big spending/tax-cutting bill at all because reconciliation-with-both-houses is the only time anything like that seems possible any more. Since Biden's BBB is busted by bipartisan bullshit, we're more or less assuming he's gonna lose the house (and probably the senate) in 2022, which doesn't leave much time for a second try. The Rs had a similar scenario where they failed to repeal the ACA like a billion times before they just went "gently caress it, here's a trillion dollars to rich people." Biden's administration seems to have jumped straight to that step in year one, because the government is unsuited to helping people who can't buy influence.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:05
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Zeron posted:I mean...yeah? I liked Bernie because he seemed to have principles and appeared to be sincere about standing by them. I'm not like, upset, that he's just become a Democrat, but I'm not really interested in what he is up to anymore specifically because he has become integrated into the same system that continues to refuse progress and change. I'd take him over a whole lot of people but he's just another politician at this point. That's the point. The principle he stood by for most of his career was being able to say stuff that would never matter while being reelected in a safe seat. It's entirely understandable that the internet left finds that way more dreamy than anything he ever did to shape policy, push the overton window around, or make anyone's lives better.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:07
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FlamingLiberal posted:Have some good news on a Friday Louise Mensch's tweet was just a few years premature is all.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:10
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Rosalind posted:I'm stupid so please explain to me how forcing a doomed vote on M4A results in M4A passing. I think the logic is that forcing reps to go On The Record opposing M4A will activate unprecedented left-wing opposition at the primary level, resulting in a So-Blue-Its-Ultraviolet Wave that shifts the balance of power and Overton window so far left that M4A passes in the subsequent Congress. As a mechanism of action, I don't think it's the likely outcome which is why it was a stupid thing to pledge to.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:10
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Rosalind posted:I'm stupid so please explain to me how forcing a doomed vote on M4A results in M4A passing. I call Big Bob Menendez every week and I thank him for all the work he and AOC are doing to prevent a Medicare 4 All vote. Together, you and I can make a difference. Edit: oh you only call once a month? I guess some of us are just little more progressive then others. Cow Bell fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 23:10
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Rosalind posted:I'm stupid so please explain to me how forcing a doomed vote on M4A results in M4A passing. It puts members of Congress on record as to whether they consider their constituents as important as their donors. quote:Edit: And since we're asking personal questions: have you pressured your rep to force a vote on M4A? How many times have you called their office? I try to call all my elected representatives at least once a month. That's so cool! Which issues have they brought forth to the floor or to committee due to your calls? Personally, I've found that elected federal officials' offices are way more responsive solving constituents' problems than the country's (no donors to piss off if they're just calling the VA on constituents' behalf), so that's how I use them. Otherwise, it's way more productive to expend energy on issues advocacy through existing groups & tackle those issues at the state & local levels.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:11
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Killer robot posted:The principle he stood by for most of his career was being able to say stuff that would never matter while being reelected in a safe seat. Man I cannot come up with a more bad faith reading of Sanders than maybe those “three houses/millionaire” veiled antisemetic takes wine moms have about him
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Nov 12, 2021 23:11
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Part of the theoretical fixing of the Democratic party so they can do good things requires finding out which ones of them aren't actually all that interested in doing them. No one's pretending it will be an overnight groundswell to toss the bums out, but forcing votes gets them on the record. Breaking a campaign promise for nothing doesn't get it done.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:13
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Rosalind posted:I'm stupid so please explain to me how forcing a doomed vote on M4A results in M4A passing. How would a vote for M4A be doomed? Democrats control the house right, they want to give people healthcare right? It ought to sail through. Unless some Democratic house members would vote against healthcare for Americans but they don't want their constituents to know that, in which case actually having a vote would show their constituents who they are. Seems like the small-d democratic thing to do. Why not vote on it? The House held a billion doomed votes on things from HR 1 to $2000 checks under president Trump, because they believed it was important for America to know what Democrats stand for VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 23:13
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Rosalind posted:I'm stupid so please explain to me how forcing a doomed vote on M4A results in M4A passing. At this point? Spite, it's dead for at least another generation. Forcing people to go on the record killing it would feel nicer than just pretending we didnt just see it tossed in a well before the cement got poured in Nobodys got an answer to how to get that passed because it's just not gonna happen in our lifetimes now
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Nov 12, 2021 23:14
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FlamingLiberal posted:Have some good news on a Friday Well, this is some welcome news. How long until we can expect him in lockup? I imagine they move on these arrest warrants quickly. Does he just sit in jail until he decides to show up to respond to his subpoena? I don't see his doughy self willingly sit in jail until Jan 2023, the earliest Republicans get control and spring him.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:15
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Rosalind posted:I'm stupid so please explain to me how forcing a doomed vote on M4A results in M4A passing. Obviously not Willa, but for me it's a simple matter of "because that's what she promised." That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. And I haven't pressured Mrs. Wasserman-Schultz much personally, I spent more time working directly with her doomed from the start primary challengers. vvv the aforementioned representative for my district has tried to have climate protesters arrested at her office Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 23:16
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I've always heard from staffers that they don't care about mail, or phone calls, to the offices. Unless it's a big media blitz of pressure, but otherwise that mail and calling don't persuade politicians from their positions. That neither are worth anything. Does anyone have any experience here?
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Nov 12, 2021 23:20
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Well I know for sure that nothing I send will ever be read but that's because all my reps are absentee chuds and I'm much better served staying off their radar entirely
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Nov 12, 2021 23:22
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Epic High Five posted:Well I know for sure that nothing I send will ever be read but that's because all my reps are absentee chuds and I'm much better served staying off their radar entirely It's a meaningless goal post that only gets brought up as an excuse to dismiss arguments
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Nov 12, 2021 23:24
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TulliusCicero posted:No pardon for you this time Stevie Trump will absolutely pull that if it comes down to it.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:25
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FlamingLiberal posted:Have some good news on a Friday Sure sure This is bullshit until he’s either on the stand or in jail. Anything else is just PR for the easily fooled or those grasping at straws.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:27
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papa horny michael posted:I've always heard from staffers that they don't care about mail, or phone calls, to the offices. Unless it's a big media blitz of pressure, but otherwise that mail and calling don't persuade politicians from their positions. That neither are worth anything. Does anyone have any experience here? When members of congress start being pressured to hold as much "call time" reaching out & talking with constituents as they are now told to hold for donors, then maybe it'd help.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:28
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I can understand why AOC wouldn't want to force a vote on M4A when Lee Carter did exactly that with the already doomed RTW repeal in Virginia and the resulting narrative (including in this forum) was that VA Democrats voting down the bill (which, again, was already procedurally doomed) was somehow his fault.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:31
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Willa Rogers posted:When members of congress start being pressured to hold as much "call time" reaching out & talking with constituents as they are now told to hold for donors, then maybe it'd help. Imagine having Nancy Pelosi ride your rear end for not raising enough money so the party can run Amy McGrath or whoever they set up in some chud district, and then you have to watch them support your challenger. What a messed up life to choose. Lmao imagine respecting her at all, tbh. Couldn’t be me, but not all of us are fit to the purpose.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:32
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papa horny michael posted:I've always heard from staffers that they don't care about mail, or phone calls, to the offices. Unless it's a big media blitz of pressure, but otherwise that mail and calling don't persuade politicians from their positions. That neither are worth anything. Does anyone have any experience here? There are liberal and leftist groups that try to start media blitzes for exactly this reason.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:32
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