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HootTheOwl posted:It also shouldn't IMO. It's pretty flavourful for Rest In Peace to make sure that when a creature dies it just leaves the game without any chance of coming back or on-death shenanigans. Creatures resting in peace, if you will.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:24
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If you make dies a keyword, and tack exile effect on everything, you should also give dies some privledges. Like how discard can discard into exile.
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HootTheOwl posted:No? Because they can and do print cards that explicitly stop dies triggers. Like Hushbringer. Or Turn to Frog Or Swords to Plowshares, or Path to Exile.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:25
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HootTheOwl posted:Then they should print more generic leaves trhe battlefield triggers Those would be substantially stronger. Every blink effect gets you the trigger (along with any etb) and keeps the creature. Getting things out of the graveyard is non-trivial.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:26
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Eej posted:It's pretty flavourful for Rest In Peace to make sure that when a creature dies it just leaves the game without any chance of coming back or on-death shenanigans. Creatures resting in peace, if you will. It's antiflavor that Rest In Peace doesn't keep corpses in the ground what are you talking about? They're not resting, they're ceasing to exist E: A flavorful RiP is a combination Groundseal/Yaxlid Jailer .../Cage HootTheOwl fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 23:34
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fadam posted:Or Swords to Plowshares, or Path to Exile.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:36
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Fantastic Foreskin posted:Those would be substantially stronger. Every blink effect gets you the trigger (along with any etb) and keeps the creature. Getting things out of the graveyard is non-trivial. Yes? The thing I want to happen is for a whole class of cards to be stronger.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:36
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Yorion/Soulherder player spotted
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Nov 12, 2021 23:45
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HootTheOwl posted:It's antiflavor that Rest In Peace doesn't keep corpses in the ground what are you talking about? They're not resting, they're ceasing to exist They're resting in that they are no longer interactable with the game. Groundseal, Yixlid Jailer and Grafdigger doesn't stop things like Delirium or Into The Story which are still using dead creatures to power your magic. Additionally anything that dies while RIP is in play is gone for good while you can remove Groundseal etc and the dead can be used again.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:07
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Watching NicolaiBolas's Draft Guide for Crimson Vow... he says if your creature with exploit dies to a instant removal spell you don't get the benefit of the exploit, but if the creature itself gets exploited you can get the benefit.. Is that right? If so what's the rationality for that vs exploiting another creature. As far as I can tell in general: 1. Cast exploit creature, it enters the battlefield. 2. Exploit goes onto stack 3. I burn exploit creature with instant as a response. 4. Creature dies... 5. Exploit is on stack but since I killed exploited creature nothing happens... So how does it work where the creature can exploit itself and have that resolve?
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Nov 13, 2021 00:09
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Eej posted:They're resting in that they are no longer interactable with the game. Groundseal, Yixlid Jailer and Grafdigger doesn't stop things like Delirium or Into The Story which are still using dead creatures to power your magic. Additionally anything that dies while RIP is in play is gone for good while you can remove Groundseal etc and the dead can be used again. Delerium is you going insane because everyting around you has died. People, things, concepts, the land itself is dying and it's driving you mad. The dead things, however, don't care and sleep anyways. It's Rest in Peace, not Rested in Peace. Once you remove the Resting you should be able to disturb the plots. This was the case in the famous 1994 documentary, Poltergeist. Moving the headstones (which declare you should rest in peace) does not move the bodies!
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Nov 13, 2021 00:20
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Strong Sauce posted:Watching NicolaiBolas's Draft Guide for Crimson Vow... he says if your creature with exploit dies to a instant removal spell you don't get the benefit of the exploit, but if the creature itself gets exploited you can get the benefit.. Is that right? If so what's the rationality for that vs exploiting another creature. As far as I can tell in general: Creatures see themselves die. So if a creature exploits itself it still sees itself do it. The templating on exploit is: 1 Creature ETB, exploit goes on the stack. 2 Exploit Resolves, you can sacrifice a creature. If you do the second trigger goes on the stack. 3 Second trigger resolves. However If the creature dies before the first exploit trigger resolves, (between 1 and 2) it won't be around to see you actually exploit a creature. Specifically what you're missing is that it's two triggers: ETB exploit and When you exploit
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Nov 13, 2021 00:23
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Hoot, I don’t always agree with your takes but you have a really good mastery of the rules and are good at explaining them 👍
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Nov 13, 2021 00:26
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HootTheOwl posted:Creatures see themselves die. So if a creature exploits itself it still sees itself do it. Still a bit confused.. you say it sees itself do it... but if I kill the creature with exploit, wouldn't it die before exploit resolves? How is it a valid target? Also why do most cards where the creature has a, "when a creature dies" effect, generally mention: "when [CARDNAME] or a creature dies, <X>"? Is that to specifically make clear the rule? This means you could technically cast Diver Skaab, have your opponent try to kill Skaab, but you exploit itself to put itself back to the top of your library? 
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Nov 13, 2021 00:41
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Strong Sauce posted:Still a bit confused.. you say it sees itself do it... but if I kill the creature with exploit, wouldn't it die before exploit resolves? How is it a valid target? A few things here: Exploit doesn't target. It's a choice you make on the resolution of the ability. So if the creatre dies before exploit resolves it's not a valid choice. You can choose another (or choose nothing) Most cards use that templating because, yes, it's a little more clear. Old templating didn't do this, and Slivers didn't use this templating. It would be confusing, for example, for players to remember that Muscle Sliver pumped itself. So let's follow this through: You cast Skaab and it Resolves. Exploit is now on the stack. If your opponent kills it, how did you sacrifice it? So it can't exploit itself in this case. But if the exploit resolved, and you did get to sacrifice it to itself it will see that you exploited a creature (itself) and then it's second ability will trigger. Only when this second ability triggers will you get to pick a target for Skaab, and since you sacrificed Skaab, it's in the graveyard and is no longer a legal "Target creature". You'll have to pick a different target. A bit of rules magic won't let you target itself if it sacrifices itself: You can't name your targets until you put the ability on the stack and you can't put it on the stack while the first ability is resolving. And once it's finished resolving Skaab is dead. I feel like you're trying to do multiple steps at once but it's very important you separate them. You don't pick a target until you exploit. And you don't exploit until the ETB resolves. And your opponent gets a chance to interupt you between each of these steps.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:53
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HootTheOwl posted:Delerium is you going insane because everyting around you has died. People, things, concepts, the land itself is dying and it's driving you mad. The dead things, however, don't care and sleep anyways. Rest In Peace makes the souls move on, not stay in the ground. The corpses might as well just be dirt! But also since Rest In Peace gets rid of all the dead things piling up around you it makes sense it counteracts Delirium tbh
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Nov 13, 2021 01:14
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fadam posted:Hoot, I don’t always agree with your takes but you have a really good mastery of the rules and are good at explaining them 👍 
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Nov 13, 2021 01:16
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Eej posted:Rest In Peace makes the souls move on, not stay in the ground. The corpses might as well just be dirt! Ya don't need a soul to make a zombie. That's why they printed Soul Separator. I want the dirt! I need that 2/1 dirt!
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Nov 13, 2021 01:19
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Thanks for the clarification for the other questions.. still confused on the Exploit yourself before you die to removal though... Let's say we have a creature with Exploit. (not the Diver just to avoid confusion about the question associated with it) 1. My opponent cast a creature with Exploit. 2. Creature resolves, ETBs, Exploit goes onto stack. 3. I cast Abrade for 3 damage, enough to kill Creature 4. Opponent has no response, Abrade resolves... shouldn't the creature die here? How does it get to Exploit itself? Even if it sees itself die... when the Exploit from Step 1 resolves how is the creature still alive to trigger the second part of the ability? My confusion I guess seems to be that by the time it got to Part 1, if the creature was dead you could still run the Exploit but since the creature no longer existed, the 2nd part of the ability doesn't exist anymore, only the Exploit itself... so how the creature could self-exploit at this point since to me it seems to be the creature is not there to trigger the 2nd part of the effect anymore.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:22
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Edit:this was a poorly phrased phone post, I'll let another rules lawyer exploit this posting opportunity
Cactrot fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 01:29
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Strong Sauce posted:Thanks for the clarification for the other questions.. still confused on the Exploit yourself before you die to removal though... 1-4 You;re right: If the creature dies before exploit resolves it can't sacrifice itself to exploit. And will be in the graveyard and won't see if you exploited anything else. I think I got tripped up on "exploit itself". We're using it to both mean "the creature exploits, sacrifices itself" and "The ETB trigger on a creature with Exploit"
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Nov 13, 2021 01:34
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Cactrot posted:Edit:this was a poorly phrased phone post, I'll let another rules lawyer exploit this posting opportunity maybe you should "exploit" this opportunity... to make better posts
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Nov 13, 2021 02:06
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I'm glad Crokeyz finally caught on, but Graveyard Trespasser is far and away the best creature in Midnight Hunt, possibly the best creature in Standard, and you should really be playing it
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Nov 13, 2021 02:20
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Bold claim for a format with Goldspan
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Nov 13, 2021 02:47
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A turn 3 Trespasser that sticks takes over the game way faster and more effectively than a turn 5 Goldspan
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Nov 13, 2021 02:51
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yeah i don't really see the huge upside of a 3/3 for 3 that conditionally drains for 1 per turn, that conditionally is a 4/4 that can drain for 2
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Nov 13, 2021 02:51
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flatluigi posted:yeah i don't really see the huge upside of a 3/3 for 3 that conditionally drains for 1 per turn, that conditionally is a 4/4 that can drain for 2 It's the Ward - Discard. That's kind of nuts for a three drop that's already on curve + additional upside.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:06
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It's a good creature. It is not a format defining creature.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:12
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Not sure if it was noticed before, but when I was looking at some distinctive land art, I discovered a new artist for the set: https://scryfall.com/search?q=artist%3A%22pig+hands%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
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Nov 13, 2021 03:15
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Pig Hands? That's a person?
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Nov 13, 2021 03:32
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Graveyard Trespasser isn't even the best 3 drop werewolf in that set.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:54
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Went 3-0 in prerelease tonight 
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Nov 13, 2021 04:52
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Leperflesh posted:Pig Hands? That's a person? https://www.instagram.com/pighands/?hl=en From Macedonia, real name Antonio Ilievski, according to https://www.metal-archives.com/artists/Pig_Hands/627874
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Nov 13, 2021 05:18
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Prerelease I had Necroduality, Toxrill the Corrosive, all the Exploit Zombies (pretty much. Diver Skaab, Stitched Assistant, Repository Skaab, Skull Skaab), bunch of stuff that wants to be sacrificed: Doomed Dissenter, Undead Butler, Biolume Egg. I also had the combo card with Repository Skaab, Undying Malice.. and also a Mirrorhall Mimic. I went 0-3  Got mana screwed a bunch even though I played 17, then 18 lands. But whenever Necroduality and/or Toxrill the Corrosive came out the deck basically just flooded the board with zombies or made things all sluggy.. I just couldn't string together two games to beat anyone. Incredibly frustrating. Curve wasn't bad I don't think... 1 mana: 4 2 mana: 7 3 mana: 3 4 mana: 6 5 mana: 2 7 mana: 1   
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Nov 13, 2021 07:26
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Went 3-0 in prerelease tonight Proud of ya babe. The finals in sealed tournaments if both players don't get mana screwed/flooded, are usually really fun grindfests.. But man, opening a bad seal pool is just the absolute worst, because you know your next couple of hours are probably going to be pretty subpar, but you should at least give it a go. Then you wish you didn't give a go or left the house that day.
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Nov 13, 2021 07:51
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DangerDongs posted:Proud of ya babe. I’m halfway to going 0-2 drop with an absolutely RANCID pool, ama
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Nov 13, 2021 08:40
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Might do a prerelease today. I haven't bothered reading spoilers in the thread so all I know is we'll gently caress up exploit and Kaya jumped through a window
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Nov 13, 2021 09:19
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ilmucche posted:Might do a prerelease today. I haven't bothered reading spoilers in the thread so all I know is we'll gently caress up exploit and Kaya jumped through a window I got Kaya in my pack tonight.. she is pretty useless for sealed/draft. Edit: just realized it would have been fun to use her since the Necroduality creates zombie tokens, so I would have gotten an extra zombie token for each zombie. too bad its 1WB... Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 09:30
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The reason a creature that exploits itself (if it wasn't killed before exploit trigger resolves) still gets the "when exploit" trigger is because of rule 603.10a https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/cr603/#10 Magic looks back in time to before the creature was sacrificed to determine if anything should trigger and sees the "when ~ exploits" that matches the event, so it triggers even though the exploit creature is in the graveyard
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Nov 13, 2021 13:28
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I pulled two Ulvenwald Oddities, Howlpack Piper, Necroduality, Toxrill and Kaya and I forget what else in my prerelease pack. I ended up going green/white and splashing black for Kaya and Toxrill since I had evolving wilds and the mana rock creature and Kaya actually ended up being pretty good. Giving all your creatures deathtouch is pretty good and I actually got her ultimate off once lol. Ulvenwald Oddity was the MVP
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Nov 13, 2021 15:00
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Heading to my first prerelease in... Hell, eight years? Haven't touched magic since then lol Let's see if I've still got it, sealed was always my favorite format because making the best of a poo poo pile is fun
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Nov 13, 2021 18:36
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