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Postorder Trollet89
Jan 12, 2008
Sweden doesn't do religion. But if they did, it would probably be the best religion in the world.

MiddleOne posted:

KD are down 1,3% since the Esbjörn affair started (2% since the election) and are competing with MP for joining L on the chopping block.

If KD and L get axed in 2022 I could die a happy man. MP too while we're at it, especially in Stockholm.

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BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
If KD goes under I fully expect Ebba to jump over to SD or M.

Postorder Trollet89
Jan 12, 2008
Sweden doesn't do religion. But if they did, it would probably be the best religion in the world.
Would not surprise me. Swedish parliament is oversaturated with small center/rightwing parties right now with their single issue BS. A consolidation on the right is more likely than ever before.

lilljonas
May 6, 2007

We got crabs? We got crabs!

BigglesSWE posted:

If KD goes under I fully expect Ebba to jump over to SD or M.

If Jimmie had a heart attack tomorrow morning Ebba would be bribing the valkommitté at SD before lunchtime.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




https://twitter.com/JosimarFotball/status/1457705928053174273
I know that lawyers are morally bankrupt and all, but to willingly agree to try and silence journalists on behalf of a corrupt and authoritarian government is still really vile.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
Gonna talk radio a bit here.

So Norway attempted to move to DAB and shut down it's national FM transmitters in 2017, today it seems like it's considered a failure on all points. And it also seems that DAB isn't even a very good technology compared to FM (more expensive, shorter range, requires more power in receivers and possibly transmitters too) and there are better alternatives now such as DRM for digital radio transmission that are looking to be adopted en masse in the developing world.

Quite a long article so I only quote parts of it
http://digitalradioinsider.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-final-countdown-future-of-dab-radio.html

quote:

The Final Countdown -The Future of DAB Radio Is Over - [Update 2]

Global smartphone revolution to kill a pyramid scheme which has cost taxpayers billions.
FM and mobile/fixed broadband will provide ample space for audio broadcasting worldwide.

5G broadcast receiver launched in Austria
Public Access Nordic has for some decades observed developments in the field of broadcasting in Sweden, the Nordic countries and the rest of the world. Particular attention has been paid to the attempts to introduce DAB as a digital platform for terrestrial radio. However, DAB replacing FM radio is something that radio listeners never asked for. Dissatisfaction with the FM has ever been reported. Today, FM radio is merely challenged by digital radio via the Internet. Despite this, the DAB system stakeholders continue conducting extensive lobbying in Europe. In some countries, the lobby has managed to lure the pants of politicians. Their foremost (and sole) triumph was a closure national FM in Norway, but not in Sweden or anywhere else.

The editors predict that DAB lobbying will continue for a long time to come as this is the only chance to survive. Otherwise, market forces would quickly kill the DAB system. The editors have noted that the DAB stakeholders never respond to criticism of the shortcomings in the system. Below is our overview and analysis. Views and comments, including anyone not sharing our facts, views and conclusions are welcome.

Background

DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) is one of several systems for terrestrial digital radio. It was developed as early as in the 1980s in Munich and was launched 1995 by some European public service companies with the BBC, NRK and SR showing the way. The intention was from the beginning that DAB would supplement analogue FM radio with increased sound quality, primarily in cars, but over time this goal became quantitative insofar as DAB could offer many more channels than FM. Such aspirations however became detrimental to the sound quality.

The game changed significantly around the turn of the millennium with audio increasingly being distributed over the Internet. All this development was accentuated in Sweden when mobile broadband on 4G became well established in the 2010s. Here, WiFi in homes and in public environments is also driving forces. In your smartphone, smart speaker or connected car, you can listen to more than a thousand times more radio and music channels than via a DAB network. Also with access to channels with much better sound quality.

In the world's approximately 220 nations and territories, analogue broadcasting technology is still the main platform for radio. Mainly FM, but in several countries there is still also medium wave (AM). The shortwave is still used for international, national and regional reach.

-----

It is highly unlikely that DAB ever will be accepted in the world's eleven largest nations; China, India, the United States, Indonesia, Pakistan, Brazil, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Russia, Mexico and Japan, which together muster half the world's total population.


Several countries have chosen or are choosing other digital systems for terrestrial radio such as DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) and HD Radio. This is because these systems use current frequency bands for FM (VHF II) as well as short and medium wave (HF). Here you get a transmitter range that is superior to DAB, which can only be transmitted on the higher frequency band (VHF III) previously intended for television. Short range means that investing in DAB transmitters will be too expensive outside the largest cities. This has already been noted in India, Pakistan, Brazil and Russia.

quote:

Norway occupies a world-unique position as the only country where FM has been replaced by DAB for its national network. Switzerland plans to follow suit 2023.
Among the countries that have previously trialed DAB and/or declined national public investment are Canada, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Portugal, Spain, Latvia, Hungary, Finland, Sweden, Ireland and New Zealand.

More recently, Norway extends FM life for another 10 years, hopefully they do more than that:
http://digitalradioinsider.blogspot.com/2021/10/norway-to-retain-fm-radio-for-another.html#more

IMO DRM is where it's at if you want to digitalize radio in the nordics (I personally don't see a need for it, but if we must). We basically don't use the AM range here so it's ripe for a modernization without disrupting backwards compatibility.

DRM on the old AM band 500-1600khz would have a lot of advantages, a massively increased range with less powerfull transmitters for instance, it would be very cheap to send on AM frequencies and with DRM you could get FM quality sound which is definitely good enough.

DRM is being adopted in countries with massive populations so we'd be able to take advantage of the economy of scale there. And personally there's no need to lock oneself into the old AM range, you could extend such a band into the SW range too, using just a portion of that lower band would give one more channel space than I can see a need for, given how little space a DRM channel needs of the frequency spectrum.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

i will admit to never having really understood the DAB issue and really really not getting why the FM net was so bad that we had to spend the sort of sums involved in the DAB project to replace it

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

I mean the answer has to be that politicians and/or people at NRK or whatever had stocks or somethign in companies involved with developing the technology and building the infrastructure?

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

i don't know, in norwegian politics you do occasionally get these issues which are someone's pet project and then just take a huge life of their own

for a brief, glorious time in the mid-2000s a huge portion norwegian school computers ran a linux OS, for instance. i still cherish the memories.

e: not all, as it turns out i misremembered

V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Nov 12, 2021

Threadkiller Dog
Jun 9, 2010
The DAB stuff sounds exactly like how it went down in sweden a few years ago. It was mostly scrapped in the end and we're all FM for the forseeable future now.

But as you say it was weird that it was pushed as hard as it was - I also assumed tech lobbying of some kind and everyone monorailing along like idiots for a while. Until the right people realized how expensive and useless it all was.

Threadkiller Dog fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Nov 12, 2021

luminalflux
May 27, 2005



Threadkiller Dog posted:

The DAB stuff sounds exactly like how it went down in sweden a few years ago. It was mostly scrapped in the end and we're all FM for the forseeable future now.

But as you say it was weird that it was pushed as hard as it was - I also assumed tech lobbying of some kind and everyone monorailing along like idiots for a while. Until the right people realized how expensive and useless it all was.

A lot of people on the tech side at SR have DAB brainworms and never miss a point to "well akshually" on how good it is

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I never paid much attention, but I figured it was Tono wanting DRM, and then some vague bullshit about range and quality or not enough space in the frequency band.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

V. Illych L. posted:

for a brief, glorious time in the mid-2000s a huge portion norwegian school computers ran a linux OS, for instance. i still cherish the memories.

I guess you're referring to skolelinux. We ran that on the school library computers.

Linux in general was the norm in norwegian universities long before that, and quite a bit after, but when the right took power that started going away, mature systems being ripped out and replaced with the Microsoft cloud services.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

thotsky posted:

I never paid much attention, but I figured it was Tono wanting DRM, and then some vague bullshit about range and quality or not enough space in the frequency band.

The funniest thing about DAB is that it has shorter range than FM.

P.S.
Rename norway to North Haverbrook

His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Nov 12, 2021

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kd-ledarens-han-mot-miljopartiet

quote:

KD-ledarens hån mot Miljöpartiet

En totalt nedsläckt lokal och en lysande ficklampa i ansiktet likt stunderna då man brukade berätta spökhistorier för varandra. Ebba Busch passade på att håna Miljöpartiet under sitt tal på partiets riksting.

– Det här är berättelsen om Miljöpartiets järngrepp om svensk energipolitik, sa hon viskandes.

Kristdemokraternas partiledare Ebba Busch tog tillfället i akt under sitt tal och hånade Miljöpartiet. Plötsligt släcktes lokalen ned och kvar fanns bara ljuset från hennes egen ficklampa.

– Det blev vindstilla i Öresund, så vindkraftverken slutade snurra.

Hon passade även på att ge en känga till Socialdemokraterna.

– Det är bara det att det är ju ingen sagostund. Det är svensk energipolitisk verklighet. Lika osäker, volatil och labil som Socialdemokraternas regeringsunderlag.

Oh good, we're importing this talking point too.

Potrzebie
Apr 6, 2010

I may not know what I'm talking about, but I sure love cops! ^^ Boy, but that boot is just yummy!
Lipstick Apathy

Next up EB will brag about grabbing MPs by the pussy :barf:

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

thotsky posted:

I guess you're referring to skolelinux. We ran that on the school library computers.

Linux in general was the norm in norwegian universities long before that, and quite a bit after, but when the right took power that started going away, mature systems being ripped out and replaced with the Microsoft cloud services.

i resent the microsoft integration a lot, but i'm pretty sure that UiB at least had microsoft since at the latest 2009

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
The more I hear about Bergen the less I like it.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

nobody likes bergen, but we who are from there do love it

Beeswax
Dec 29, 2005

Grimey Drawer
It looks nice in photos

edit: but so does Helsingborg

Grimson
Dec 16, 2004



Beeswax posted:

It looks nice in photos

edit: but so does Helsingborg

The fakest of all the mediums.

fnox
May 19, 2013



Sweden for some reason is now requiring you to fill certain criteria in order to get a free COVID test, reducing the overall number of tests by 30% overnight. This will surely go well.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
Testing poses a conundrum in that more testing helps in stopping infection chains, but at the same time it ties up a lot of medical personnel that would be direly needed elsewhere to clear queues - the pandemic didn't end all the rest of health issues people have.

Cardiac
Aug 28, 2012

V. Illych L. posted:

nobody likes bergen, but we who are from there do love it

The only time I have been in Bergen it was 25-30 degrees and sunny, which should make it easy to tell when I was there.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Nenonen posted:

Testing poses a conundrum in that more testing helps in stopping infection chains, but at the same time it ties up a lot of medical personnel that would be direly needed elsewhere to clear queues - the pandemic didn't end all the rest of health issues people have.
How much medical personnel can it really tie up? The ones collecting samples don't have to be medical personnel, or even studying healthcare, which leaves the ones checking samples in the labs?

Hutter
Feb 16, 2011

It's been giving me nightmares.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

How much medical personnel can it really tie up? The ones collecting samples don't have to be medical personnel, or even studying healthcare, which leaves the ones checking samples in the labs?

More than you might think, or rather more time than you might think. And there is a bit of an understaffing of qualified BMA (atleast in region Skåne).

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Beeswax posted:

It looks nice in photos

edit: but so does Helsingborg

the city of bergen bascially abolished itself in the sixties-seventies and is now not so much a city as a collection of satellite towns organised around shopping centres

it doesn't have the weird self-loathing that oslo has and there's a fair bit of residual cultural confidence, but Mistakes have been Made and the city's gone and doesn't look like it's ever coming back

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

While there's many things I did not like about Bergen living there for about 7-8 years, one thing I did appreciate, if you actually live in the city proper is how small it is and how convenient it is to just walk everywhere. Made easier by Bybanen depending on where you're going, but you can still get to basically any place in the city when you're there in no more than 40 minutes, which really is pretty great in order to be able to just do stuff and not have to worry too much about getting to and from places.

Bergen's basically cheating big time in order to get that second city spot, in actuality the city proper isn't really that much bigger than Drammen I feel like (though more dense and with more establishments because of the satelite population).

e: Also, I feel like Oslo doesn't really have that much of a self loathing does it? I feel that what's actually going on there is that most of the country just really doesn't like Oslo.

Grimson
Dec 16, 2004



Randarkman posted:

e: Also, I feel like Oslo doesn't really have that much of a self loathing does it? I feel that what's actually going on there is that most of the country just really doesn't like Oslo.

There's a lot of uninformed and ignorant people out there.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Grimson posted:

There's a lot of uninformed and ignorant people out there.

And here's why alot of people don't like Oslo.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

no, oslo has a very deep and very obvious chip on its shoulder about being a "real city". this is why it keeps building stupid buildings at ridiculous prices, tearing down historic neighborhoods etc. i did not think this way before moving eastwards - i thought the city just didn't have much character - but the eagerness of oslo to be something it's not is rivalled only by certain gulf state towns - it's a city with a ton of cultural neuroses

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Randarkman posted:

While there's many things I did not like about Bergen living there for about 7-8 years, one thing I did appreciate, if you actually live in the city proper is how small it is and how convenient it is to just walk everywhere. Made easier by Bybanen depending on where you're going, but you can still get to basically any place in the city when you're there in no more than 40 minutes, which really is pretty great in order to be able to just do stuff and not have to worry too much about getting to and from places.

Bergen's basically cheating big time in order to get that second city spot, in actuality the city proper isn't really that much bigger than Drammen I feel like (though more dense and with more establishments because of the satelite population).

e: Also, I feel like Oslo doesn't really have that much of a self loathing does it? I feel that what's actually going on there is that most of the country just really doesn't like Oslo.

bergen proper is bigger than drammen, but not by a lot. back in the day it used to be incredibly densely populated - these days you have less than fifty thousand people living in the city centre, versus three times that number circa 1950. a lot of that was just squalor, but a lot of it has also been a totally hare-brained bet on personal automobiles in one of the least car-friendly regions in europe

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
The big fancy buildings are maybe somewhat dumb, but they could be doing a lot worse than building museums, libraries and opera houses.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

thotsky posted:

The big fancy buildings are maybe somewhat dumb, but they could be doing a lot worse than building museums, libraries and opera houses.

Oslo already has that though. I thing V.I.L is onto something, Oslo municipality is in a class of its own in Norway when it comes to just squandering public money on building projects that spiral totally out of control.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

well they could build the same things but less ostentatiously, but that would not go well with the oslo drive to be accepted as a real city, since a real city has to have big expensive monuments

i actually enjoy going to the opera and i quite like the opera house, but it's very clearly a part of this effort. it is also a personal pleasure to me that the incredibly boring but very modern facade of bjørvika now has this hulking aluminium titan looming over it. the big museums seem to be mostly art speculation schemes anyway, as illustrated most poignantly by the national museum's completely pathetic cooperation with the fredriksen sisters: the world of art is hosed up, you have to buy expensive tickets to see the public collections, and so i cheer up every time i see the brooding mass of the new munch museum spoiling this monument to bourgeois pretention

TheRat
Aug 30, 2006

The new munch museum is one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen, and on top of that they managed to make an art museum that's supposed to look warm and inviting look like a sterile airport terminal on the inside. What in the world happened there?

E: Like, it literally looks like an airport terminal

TheRat fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Nov 15, 2021

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

TheRat posted:

The new munch museum is one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen, and on top of that they managed to make an art museum that's supposed to look warm and inviting look like a sterile airport terminal on the inside. What in the world happened there?

E: Like, it literally looks like an airport terminal



Someone had a plan for a conference building.

jeebus bob
Nov 4, 2004

Festina lente

TheRat posted:

The new munch museum is one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen, and on top of that they managed to make an art museum that's supposed to look warm and inviting look like a sterile airport terminal on the inside. What in the world happened there?

E: Like, it literally looks like an airport terminal



Are there any pictures from the actual exhibition rooms or is photography not allowed in there?

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

fnox posted:

Sweden for some reason is now requiring you to fill certain criteria in order to get a free COVID test, reducing the overall number of tests by 30% overnight. This will surely go well.
LOL tegnell is a sociopath

Nenonen posted:

Testing poses a conundrum in that more testing helps in stopping infection chains, but at the same time it ties up a lot of medical personnel that would be direly needed elsewhere to clear queues - the pandemic didn't end all the rest of health issues people have.
people don't get tested for the fun of it, but do go on

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Beeswax
Dec 29, 2005

Grimey Drawer
Weird post

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