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there's maybe 3 good bosses in Arise. also it was hard for me to care about the combat after seeing how unbalanced ranged moves are, Shionne gets a 3 homing wind bullet move and spamming that will win fights well above your level. you know, if you ever play as her because otherwise her ai will never jump in the air to be able to learn her air artes. i forget when it becomes available but dohalim has an arena fight that gets you an artifact that doubles damage on both sides and it does a lot to make some fights less tedious, especially on higher difficulties.
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Nov 12, 2021 17:07
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I didn't die on any of the bosses on Moderate, but I also had that special edition that gave me bonus stuff, and was still hoovering items during those fights. They're unbalanced as hell.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:24
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lunar detritus posted:How many times did you all die during boss battles while playing Tales of Arise? Every other battle in the game seems easy but I have to retry boss battles multiple times and I can't tell if I'm underleveled or if I suck at the battle system. I didn't party wipe all that often on moderate/normal, but did reset due to consuming too many life bottles / gels. it helped to drop down to story difficulty for especially sloggy bosses. the balance got way better near the end of the game for whatever reason, maybe with the full crafting system unlocking by contrast I'm playing ToBerseria now and am blasting through it on hard. it's great when the developers actually balance the game!
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Nov 12, 2021 20:55
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The levelling curve in Berseria is designed with you turning up the difficulty whenever it gets too easy like Diablo 3, which is why the higher difficulties are mid game unlocks. Arise seemed to be balanced for just picking whatever difficulty you wanted from the start, but the bosses were way overturned on anything over normal, and they often took ages to kill on that.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:16
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Sakurazuka posted:Arise seemed to be balanced for just picking whatever difficulty you wanted from the start, but the bosses were way overturned on anything over normal, and they often took ages to kill on that. I remember trying Manic(?) on Abyss and apparently that game's setting is something like "everything has 10x stats across the board" so your intro tutorial fight can take about 15 minutes instead of 15 seconds.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:43
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Finished BR2, it was still good but ran out of steam towards the end and makes you fight way too many pallet swap bosses. The 'what carries over from your clear data' messages suggests you might get a different ending if you play through it again but I dunno if I can be bothered. The only way to max everyone's T lvl is doing NG+ too.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:46
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Boy oh boy the Game Parlor in Voice of Cards really loving sucks huh? Random draws determining how many points you get (if any), random things that negate your turns, other random things that destroy your points, it's like all the hallmarks of poo poo game design in one package.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:18
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Morpheus posted:Boy oh boy the Game Parlor in Voice of Cards really loving sucks huh? Random draws determining how many points you get (if any), random things that negate your turns, other random things that destroy your points, it's like all the hallmarks of poo poo game design in one package. It also takes loving forever
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Nov 13, 2021 08:25
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Welp, as I feared, SMTV is a lot more fun to play then Astria's Ascending Gambit of Challenges. I fear that's the end of my Astria-reporting for a while. The funniest SMTV-moment so far: Walking into a trap in the first dungeon, spawning dozens of slimes behind me, and after a short scare going: "wait ha ha ha, this isn't Astria, it's SMT!" and then high-fiving all those slimes, before we all go our own separate ways. 
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Nov 13, 2021 09:19
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Infinity Gaia posted:I think it might be connected to Talent level? I noticed at one point I had everyone except Shiho at 5-ish T.Lvl during the part where you have to backtrack to all the Heartscapes and hers was the only one that didn't get a wall unlock cutscene. I think it might indeed be tied to talent level. I ran around Kokoro's area to farm up some warm sand, then did a couple errands for her that brought her up to TL5, then went back and wall unlock cutscene played. Does anyone remember where I'm supposed to use the craftable wooden hammer? I vaguely remember it being in Hinako's area somewhere.
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Nov 13, 2021 12:39
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Evil Fluffy posted:I remember trying Manic(?) on Abyss and apparently that game's setting is something like "everything has 10x stats across the board" so your intro tutorial fight can take about 15 minutes instead of 15 seconds. Abyss had Unknown mode which quadrupled enemy stats.
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Nov 13, 2021 13:03
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I’m glad at some point they figured out that higher difficulties multiplying HP and defensive stats was a real dumb idea and bad time all around.
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Nov 13, 2021 13:18
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exquisite tea posted:I think it might indeed be tied to talent level. I ran around Kokoro's area to farm up some warm sand, then did a couple errands for her that brought her up to TL5, then went back and wall unlock cutscene played. It's generally always the area before the one you get the crafting recipe, couldn't tell you exactly where though. Make like 5 of the hammers if you can you'll need a bunch for a later area.
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Nov 13, 2021 13:21
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It feels like Labyrinth of Refrain's systems are at war with each other. Covens allow you to deploy over a dozen characters on the frontline and almost twice as many on the backline... each of whom has a full six equipment slots in a game where the typical piece of equipment has two pages of effects and some have random modifiers that add even more. Stockpiling lets you save EXP from a battle to be claimed after a later victory, gaining a higher multiplier on it with each successive stockpile by taking on the risk of losing it all if you lose or flee a battle... in a game where random enemy titles can sometimes produce essentially unbeatable enemies with ten times the usual HP and ATK, against whom losing and fleeing are really your only options. I like most of the game's systems individually (equipment excepted), but some of these great tastes don't go so great together.
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Nov 13, 2021 17:08
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Elephant Parade posted:It feels like Labyrinth of Refrain's systems are at war with each other. Covens allow you to deploy over a dozen characters on the frontline and almost twice as many on the backline... each of whom has a full six equipment slots in a game where the typical piece of equipment has two pages of effects and some have random modifiers that add even more. Stockpiling lets you save EXP from a battle to be claimed after a later victory, gaining a higher multiplier on it with each successive stockpile by taking on the risk of losing it all if you lose or flee a battle... in a game where random enemy titles can sometimes produce essentially unbeatable enemies with ten times the usual HP and ATK, against whom losing and fleeing are really your only options. I like most of the game's systems individually (equipment excepted), but some of these great tastes don't go so great together. I remember those stronger enemies being color-coded differently from normal enemies, though there might be a skill to unlock that shows that? Been awhile so I'm fuzzy on the exact details but I definitely remember being able to tell when a specific enemy on the map was gonna be like that.
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Nov 13, 2021 17:21
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I find myself wanting to put down SMT5 and go back to playing Dungeon Encounters and Touhou.
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Nov 13, 2021 17:24
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Srice posted:I remember those stronger enemies being color-coded differently from normal enemies, though there might be a skill to unlock that shows that? Been awhile so I'm fuzzy on the exact details but I definitely remember being able to tell when a specific enemy on the map was gonna be like that.
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Nov 13, 2021 17:27
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Dunno how far you are but I hope if you have interest in doing the post game of Labyrinth of Refrain all your characters lucky numbers are odd, otherwise enjoy double the grind. Also the Covenant system will never make total sense and feel like the designers had an idea and then didn't think it through enough. You'd think late game ones could rectify the problems, but no. Also you'll spend probably half the game not upgrading covenants because for a game all about them there is both a lack of options and a dearth of useable ones.
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Nov 13, 2021 17:39
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Barudak posted:Dunno how far you are but I hope if you have interest in doing the post game of Labyrinth of Refrain all your characters lucky numbers are odd, otherwise enjoy double the grind. Aside from the issue I described, the Covenant system makes perfect sense to me, and I think it's brilliant. It's the usual dungeon crawler form-a-party system, except that one "party member" can be multiple characters and you can change out your party whenever you want instead of making one party at the start of the game and sticking with it. I could have done with a few more usable pacts—my mage has been stuck with the Muddy Pact for three dungeons straight because their only alternative is the stratospherically MP-expensive Peco's Pact—and for more sidegrades than upgrades to keep team composition an interesting problem, but it's such an innovative system that I can't blame them for not getting it perfect on the first try.
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Nov 13, 2021 17:48
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Theres so much the covenant system could have been that when you slam into what it actually is Im left super disappointed, mages get really really pigeonholed by it as you've seen. I also, like, don't want a direct sequel because the writing feels fetishistically grim so I'd like this concept fleshed out in another setting.
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Nov 13, 2021 17:52
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Barudak posted:Theres so much the covenant system could have been that when you slam into what it actually is Im left super disappointed, mages get really really pigeonholed by it as you've seen. Elephant Parade fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 17:58
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WaltherFeng posted:It also takes loving forever Yeah I literally was trophy grinding on Muramasa while getting through the games on this. Just terrible all around. That said I'm enjoying the rest of the game so far. Quaint, small-scale rpg that doesnt do anything wild mechanically or narratively, like a small comforting bowl of rpg stew.
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Nov 13, 2021 18:44
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BR2 ch6 and I'm genuinely astonished that Mio exists - one look at Hiori's bipolar skill list and her 'hearing her sister's voice' had me assuming Mio was dead. I guess that there's still time for that if you work off the idea that people who can't transform are just force ghosts, though that only really seems to fit for Yuki and not Kirara Chapter finished, everything went better than expected. I like the fakeouts at the start of that chapter where Ao's going 'u-uhhhhhh why is she happy at her mom disappearing tho' Stelas fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 22:38
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This would not be an issue if you had watched the anime
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Nov 13, 2021 23:04
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Barudak posted:Theres so much the covenant system could have been that when you slam into what it actually is Im left super disappointed, mages get really really pigeonholed by it as you've seen. There’s definitely a writer somewhere at NIS that’s really bitter about the company being known for mostly cutesy if weirdly horny games, and occasionally it rears its head with something like Labyrinth of Refrain or Witch and the Hundred Knight. Just… relentlessly grim and needlessly hosed up in really uncomfortable ways.
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Nov 13, 2021 23:55
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i dont think it has to be motivated by bitterness over public image. i think tatsuya izumi's scripts are just, like that. he directed and wrote both games
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Nov 14, 2021 00:00
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Yeah the bitterness thing was a joke.  They’re just… inclined to that sort of thing.
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Nov 14, 2021 00:03
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Bussamove posted:There’s definitely a writer somewhere at NIS that’s really bitter about the company being known for mostly cutesy if weirdly horny games, and occasionally it rears its head with something like Labyrinth of Refrain or Witch and the Hundred Knight. Just… relentlessly grim and needlessly hosed up in really uncomfortable ways.
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Nov 14, 2021 00:19
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Elephant Parade posted:I don't think there's even anything wrong with this—the last thing the world needs is for every game to be written like the developers want to air a trailer on the Wholesome Direct. The issue is that the game doesn't seem to understand its own tone. Dronya acts abusively toward anyone, yet almost none of them notice. Practically every scene has her do something obviously vile, but it's treated like a joke even though nothing funny happened. The problem isn't that uncomfortable things happen; the problem is that they don't happen in a way that makes sense. I haven't finished the game yet so the story thus far could still be reframed in a way that elevates them, but where I'm at now, it just feels incoherent. I don't think there's anything wrong with grim or even grim with humor. There are a lot of extremely dark things that can also be funny or lighthearted and sometimes use that to great effect. The problem I think comes both from not understanding tone and also not quite understanding how certain material comes off. There's a lot of things which are presented as 'funny jokes' which actually are absurdly meanspirited in a bad way. It's fine to have dark humor but pitch black humor needs a waaaaay more subtle hand than you can get from 99.9% of video games and the other 1% is Disco Elysium or Yoko Taro.
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Nov 14, 2021 00:24
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I agree: black comedy is fine. The issue with Labyrinth of Refrain is that it thinks it's black comedy but it's actually just cold and harsh—like you said, it doesn't understand how its own material comes across. If it actually made the jokes it acts like it's making, it'd be fine.
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Nov 14, 2021 00:31
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game not funny
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Nov 14, 2021 00:32
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i figure out the rocket science: game not funny
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Nov 14, 2021 00:32
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Barudak posted:Dunno how far you are but I hope if you have interest in doing the post game of Labyrinth of Refrain all your characters lucky numbers are odd, otherwise enjoy double the grind. Even. They have to be even. (Also the good grinding pact is a random drop so it might not even matter anyway if you never get one 🙃) Elephant Parade posted:I don't think there's even anything wrong with this—the last thing the world needs is for every game to be written like the developers want to air a trailer on the Wholesome Direct. The issue is that the game doesn't seem to understand its own tone. Dronya acts abusively toward anyone, yet almost none of them notice. Practically every scene has her do something obviously vile, but it's treated like a joke even though nothing funny happened. The problem isn't that uncomfortable things happen; the problem is that they don't happen in a way that makes sense. I haven't finished the game yet so the story thus far could still be reframed in a way that elevates them, but where I'm at now, it just feels incoherent. You do eventually get an explanation for why Dronya hates the world so much, at least, although whether it makes her sympathetic is up to you.
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Nov 14, 2021 00:37
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Thuryl posted:You do eventually get an explanation for why Dronya hates the world so much, at least, although whether it makes her sympathetic is up to you. Snooze Cruise posted:game not funny
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Nov 14, 2021 00:47
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Yeah, in the end the story is not so much a comedy as a tragedy with weird slapstick thrown in. It holds together better than WHK did, but that's not a high bar.
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Nov 14, 2021 00:53
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On a more positive note, I really like the Witch Petition system. Unlocking and upgrading features—e.g., classes, formations, hide and escape rates—by spending mana is engaging in that it lets you pick and choose what you care about. I guess global upgrade systems aren't exactly a new idea, but I've never seen them implemented in a dungeon crawler before. The "global" part is also an improvement similar systems in previous NIS games I've played, which often make most upgrades per-unit—for example, Disgaea 1's valuable +1 Move upgrade must be applied via the Dark Senate to each individual unit, which gets annoying fast.
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Nov 14, 2021 00:57
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That bar is fifty feet underground, that’s how low it is.
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Nov 14, 2021 01:01
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Snooze Cruise posted:i figure out the rocket science: game not funny The rocket science game does have some dark humor, but this probably isn't the thread to discuss it.
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Nov 14, 2021 01:04
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i dont think the kind of humor in refrain is so difficult to do that literally only the disco elysium and drakengard/nier writers can do it. there's plenty of examples of it in weirder, smaller games. i think the witch/refrain writer guy is just kind of unfunny
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Nov 14, 2021 01:07
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What RPG do you find the funniest? I go with Skies of Arcadia, it's got a lot of fun moments, like Vyse and Aika doing their cool handshake and then Drachma going "HANDS ON THE WHEEL", or Aika's exasperation at that one general's ship having such a big cannon
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Nov 14, 2021 01:10
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