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Nihilarian posted:Final Fantasy 5 is a very robust game and theres actually generally multiple ways to beat an encounter. People have beaten ff5 with every class combination, and for most normal playthroughs the only big grindy moment is going to be getting enough hp to survive almagest. I really wouldn't say its only for hardcore players, a lot of people do it because it helps their decision paralysis Yeah, plus often you learn a lot that makes non-FJF runs more interesting. Like that certain bosses are susceptible to Slow or Sleep because you sure as hell aren't going to try casting it on every enemy when you can just brute force it normally, but in a FJF maybe you got a Mystic Knight so you checked the very thorough FJF materials for that job and now you know which bosses you can destroy with Sleep Blade or whatever
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Nov 15, 2021 16:02
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Most of the real rough stuff in a Fiesta comes in world 1 where you don't have many options or abilities. The worst offenders for a Fiesta run are usually Garula, Liquid Flame and Soul Cannon (if you have no rod breaking classes), and the crystals in world 2 are really rough for a lot of teams.
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Nov 15, 2021 16:07
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You can survive Almagest at a lower level than you’d think if you use shell. Regen counteracts sap, so having someone sub time magic for haste and regen is a Big Brain Move.
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Nov 15, 2021 16:07
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I finally settled in to my 4JF of the remaster but I picked from the jobs I haven't been given in fests before, so I'm on BLU/TIM/SUM/BST. Should be powerful and bang out the all blue magic achievement too. Maybe even the full bestiary. I don't remember if someone mentioned that Vampire drains from undead now, or if it ever did before!
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Nov 15, 2021 17:06
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FFT isn't hard, warty, or grindy at all. You can easily beat the game just by playing through the story normally. Just keep a balanced party with tanky dudes like Knights and Lancers, healers like Chemists and White Mages, ranged attackers like Archers and Black Mages, and support units like Time Mages and Mystics. The only One Weird Trick / bad game design thing you need to know is to get all your dudes Gained JP Up from SquireHellioning posted:I generally think any system that is straight up 'men are better than women at half the classes and women are better than man for the other half' is not a great system. Female units are universally, overwhelmingly superior in FFT because they're immortal
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Nov 15, 2021 17:30
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If I ever play FFV again it's going to be a 4JF, because I know myself well enough to know that if there's a good source of grinding available brainworms are going to make me do it. In FF2 I spent hours grinding captains in Fynn because it was easy to multitask that and something else on a 2nd monitor. Firion and Co all had over 4000hp and maxed evade before I finally got on with the rest of the game. In FF4 thanks to auto battle speeding things up considerably, a faster exp curve, and a really dumb decision to grind out summon items, my party was in their mid 60s before finally getting the mind flayer summon and going on to kill the dark elf. In FFV I spent way too long grinding the statues in the Bal castle basement and while not everyone has every job mastered, I basically never have to switch away from freelancer at this point (just about to finish world 2).
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Nov 15, 2021 17:44
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jokes posted:You can survive Almagest at a lower level than you’d think if you use shell. Regen counteracts sap, so having someone sub time magic for haste and regen is a Big Brain Move. Fun fact, apparently in Pixel Remaster Almagest ignores shell!
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Nov 15, 2021 17:48
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Chillgamesh posted:FFT isn't hard, warty, or grindy at all. You can easily beat the game just by playing through the story normally. Just keep a balanced party with tanky dudes like Knights and Lancers, healers like Chemists and White Mages, ranged attackers like Archers and Black Mages, and support units like Time Mages and Mystics. The only One Weird Trick / bad game design thing you need to know is to get all your dudes Gained JP Up from Squire This isn't true at all. There are multiple boss fights that are set up intentionally to make you have to use specific abilities from specific jobs to make them beatable or at least way less painful and there is at least one boss fight where the difference between auto losing on turn 1 and winning is in how you deploy your units. There's also That Wiegraf Fight that, unless you're prepared for it, can be incredibly difficult. You can't just waltz in with a balanced party of jobs and expect to win that. The game overall isn't incredibly hard but there is no gradually increasing difficulty curve. There are parts of the game where you'll breeze through 6 fights and then hit a huge wall where you have to stop and think about how to approach that fight and which jobs and abilities you need to get/use.
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Nov 15, 2021 19:18
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The biggest tip is to have multiple save files
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Nov 15, 2021 19:24
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Elephant Ambush posted:This isn't true at all. There are multiple boss fights that are set up intentionally to make you have to use specific abilities from specific jobs to make them beatable or at least way less painful and there is at least one boss fight where the difference between auto losing on turn 1 and winning is in how you deploy your units. There's also That Wiegraf Fight that, unless you're prepared for it, can be incredibly difficult. You can't just waltz in with a balanced party of jobs and expect to win that. I can't think of a single fight in the game that requires more than keeping your bases covered. Even the two cases where Ramza is stuck alone just boil down to "Have a way to do spike damage, spike healing, or sandbag", which you are going to have a way to do, even if you literally left him in Squire the entire game for some reason. There are a couple boss encounters that are hard but they're easily overcome if you just look at what's happening and think about how to counter it? Like the Chapter 2 Endboss might gently caress you with Nightmare so then you just go in again keeping your dudes spread out or equip them with Sleep immunity accessories. The actual bullshit fight is the Ch3 End encounter but I hardly think one badly designed encounter justifies calling the game warty and grindy lol
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Nov 15, 2021 19:45
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FFT is the best final fantasy but the fights in Riovanes Castle are the worst final fantasy
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Nov 15, 2021 19:46
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What other game has ff2's gently caress-you dungeon design.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:08
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Everything with a teleporter maze. Most SMT games.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:11
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You're looking for Atlus and the Wizardry lineage etrian games especially are out to make you have a bad time (but you asked for it (and there's safewords))
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Nov 15, 2021 20:16
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Alxprit posted:Fun fact, apparently in Pixel Remaster Almagest ignores shell! What the gently caress!?
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Nov 15, 2021 20:30
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Hellioning posted:Everything with a teleporter maze. Most SMT games. You can inspire terror in an SMT fan by saying either "Eridanus" or "Grus."
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Nov 15, 2021 20:34
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What other game has ff2's gently caress-you dungeon design. Dragon Quest 2
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Nov 15, 2021 20:38
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Chillgamesh posted:I can't think of a single fight in the game that requires more than keeping your bases covered. Even the two cases where Ramza is stuck alone just boil down to "Have a way to do spike damage, spike healing, or sandbag", which you are going to have a way to do, even if you literally left him in Squire the entire game for some reason. LOL aside from your very first sentence you are agreeing with me
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Nov 15, 2021 20:40
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I wonder if rods will work properly in FF6PR. They seem to work fine (or better) in FF5PR but pretty much every item in FF4PR was completely worthless to use in combat. Dancing Dagger did about 30-40 damage, the Stardust rod did less than 100...etc.cirus posted:Can't wait for someone to mod in some of those ridiculously complicated internet rumors and revive General Leo. The golden leaves one was the best/worst because two pieces of 'evidence' for it were the flickering thing in the underground castle's one tower (which is actually a fan like you see in Figaro, with a small part visible and causing the flicker) and another is that the grate behind the petrified queen is slightly discolored, and what you needed to use the TNT on to reach the golden leaves you saw in that tower. Tae posted:It's so bad and grindy, and add in matsuno's fetish to punish you for trying to raise late game new characters The only late game character that really applies to is Reis, with Cloud excluded because SOLDIER outright sucks and grinding doesn't really change that. TG Cid is an OP murderbeast the second you get him. Beowulf ruins enemies with status effects almost as much as Haborym and Deneb did in the original Tactics Ogre, Worker 8 can punch poo poo dead or laser beam them from 8 tiles away. I forget if Byblos is good but they're a monster so probably not. JP UP was definitely too much of a 'must have' and needed to just be the base JP gain rate. Barudak posted:And if you get certain classes, like samurai, you can beat absolutely anything the game throws at you with zero thought required. I'd suggest a modified 4JF style run of FF5 for first timers: Pick a couple of jobs you want to focus on and just swap to others when you occasionally need them. Like thief to steal something or Blue Mage to get Learning so that you can at least grab blue magic as you run through fights (though blue mage is really good even right off the bat) since blue magic is awesome. Inspector Gesicht posted:What other game has ff2's gently caress-you dungeon design. Silversword on iOS is a Bard's Tale 3 clone that includes dungeon gimmicks such as forced dark areas that spin you every time you move or look at your map and continually deal damage to your party. FF2 has nothing on Silversword's bullshit dungeon design.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:45
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Evil Fluffy posted:I wonder if rods will work properly in FF6PR. They seem to work fine (or better) in FF5PR but pretty much every item in FF4PR was completely worthless to use in combat. Dancing Dagger did about 30-40 damage, the Stardust rod did less than 100...etc.. That's just how FF4 worked in general.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:01
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Alxprit posted:Fun fact, apparently in Pixel Remaster Almagest ignores shell!
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Nov 15, 2021 21:05
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So uhh Adamantoises are kicking my loving rear end. Am I supposed to be able to get trapezohedrons before I kill the last boss in FF13 or wait until after?Elephant Ambush posted:LOL aside from your very first sentence you are agreeing with me You quoted my post, said "That's not true at all", then when I expanded on my point with specific details you said "you actually agree with me". 
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Nov 15, 2021 21:06
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Scalding Coffee posted:How dare they mix up the strategies between versions to keep things fresh! In fairness there are basically three anti almagest strategies: kill al-majisti really fast, shell, grind a lot. And now there are two. I guess you could theoretically jump over it too.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:10
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As someone who very recently played through FFT for the first time I can say that, at least on my end, Wiegraf was the only time I actually had a problem and the game was pretty much clown easy after that except for the rooftop fight, which isn't actually challenging but just RNG bullshit.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:18
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Chillgamesh posted:So uhh Adamantoises are kicking my loving rear end. Am I supposed to be able to get trapezohedrons before I kill the last boss in FF13 or wait until after?
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Nov 15, 2021 21:23
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Scalding Coffee posted:How dare they mix up the strategies between versions to keep things fresh! I just remembered how FF4 DS had a cutscene right before the CPU boss where they tell you that you should totally kill the healing node first… except in that version, the attack one is basically guaranteed to two-shot your entire party. Or how they turned Golbez in the dwarf castle into an actual threat, after you’d probably already spent something like 10 minutes on cutscenes and fighting Calcabrina.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:24
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Dr Pepper posted:That's just how FF4 worked in general. Not the FF2US version and not the original on the super Famicom. I have played the hell out of both versions of those games and the Dancing Dagger and the various elemental rods were potent and usable for the stretch of the game you could get them for. The rods would at least give you a free fire/ice/lit cast worth of damage. FF4PR makes them wimpy and useless.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:54
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Elephant Ambush posted:This isn't true at all. There are multiple boss fights that are set up intentionally to make you have to use specific abilities from specific jobs to make them beatable or at least way less painful and there is at least one boss fight where the difference between auto losing on turn 1 and winning is in how you deploy your units. There's also That Wiegraf Fight that, unless you're prepared for it, can be incredibly difficult. You can't just waltz in with a balanced party of jobs and expect to win that. And it can be grindy for the same reason: If you don't know what the good stuff is, then it's going to take a lot of messing around and wasting JP to find out. The difference between knowing what you're doing and what the good skills are that you really want in FFT and not knowing is pretty big. Chillgamesh posted:The only One Weird Trick / bad game design thing you need to know is to get all your dudes Gained JP Up from Squire OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 21:57
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Chillgamesh posted:So uhh Adamantoises are kicking my loving rear end. Am I supposed to be able to get trapezohedrons before I kill the last boss in FF13 or wait until after? There's a way to cheese it with Death spam but it's like a 5 percent success rate. If you don't mind dying and reloading a bunch then look it up cause I don't remember the specifics.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:58
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I think I did the trapezohedron grinding at a pretty low level using some strategy with Sazh and his summon but it was like 2010 so I don't remember how you do it
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Nov 15, 2021 22:02
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Twelve by Pies posted:Most of the real rough stuff in a Fiesta comes in world 1 where you don't have many options or abilities. The worst offenders for a Fiesta run are usually Garula, Liquid Flame and Soul Cannon (if you have no rod breaking classes), and the crystals in world 2 are really rough for a lot of teams. Uh…. crystals I’ll grant you, but Garula? Liquid Flame? Hardest overall would be W2 Exdeath, he is beefy for the gear and spells you have at the time.
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Nov 15, 2021 22:45
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derra posted:Uh…. crystals I’ll grant you, but Garula? Liquid Flame? Hardest overall would be W2 Exdeath, he is beefy for the gear and spells you have at the time. in fiesta, those are quite difficult with the wrong classes. with thief you basically have to let one guy rip and the other three throw potions on garula. with white mage, it takes forever but you'll never die because you have cure
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Nov 15, 2021 22:54
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The real worst part of any FF Tactics game are the occasional mission where you have to protect an NPC, but they’re very committed to diving into the middle of a huge group of fast enemies.
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Nov 15, 2021 22:54
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PringleCreamEgg posted:The real worst part of any FF Tactics game are the occasional mission where you have to protect an NPC, but they’re very committed to diving into the middle of a huge group of fast enemies.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:06
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PringleCreamEgg posted:The real worst part of any FF Tactics game are the occasional mission where you have to protect an NPC, but they’re very committed to diving into the middle of a huge group of fast enemies. There's basically one fight where that's really a problem. Having played the original Tactics Ogre, honestly no NPC-based missions feel bad in FFT.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:08
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Seeing everyone say Soldier sucks in FFT is weird to me because Cloud is almost always a part of my FFT runs. I'm sure its stat growth sucks and yeah you have to equip the Materia Blade to use his Limit skill, but Finishing Touch is really fuckin' good, it's pretty much the only Limit skill worth using but it completely justifies it imo. And since Finishing Touch doesn't care about attack power, the weak attack of the Materia Blade doesn't matter.Evil Fluffy posted:I forget if Byblos is good but they're a monster so probably not. I don't think Byblos is very good outside of innate Poach, which is nice, but you get it so late in the game that you've probably already got someone else with Poach. And of course in WotL Luso has innate Poach and is basically Ramza II so Byblos is even more worthless. derra posted:Uh…. crystals I’ll grant you, but Garula? Liquid Flame? Hardest overall would be W2 Exdeath, he is beefy for the gear and spells you have at the time. grieving for Gandalf posted:in fiesta, those are quite difficult with the wrong classes. with thief you basically have to let one guy rip and the other three throw potions on garula. with white mage, it takes forever but you'll never die because you have cure Yeah, the only real classes that trivialize Garula are Knight and Blue Mage, the former with !Guard cheese and the latter with Frog Song. Since you can only have one job at that point your options are limited. As mentioned White Mage can heal through Garula's bullshit but deals pitiful damage since there's only one Flail at that point in the game. Black Mage and Monk can deal great damage (and Monk can counter Garula's attacks) but they have to watch their HP. Thief is the worst to fight Garula with since it deals poo poo damage and has to worry about Garula's attacks. Liquid Flame is also a huge pain in the rear end if you don't have any class that can break Ice Rods, Mystic Knight, or White Mage, because it counters every attack you hit it with, its Firas hit hard (I think like 200-250 damage single target) and it has aoe attacks that will hurt you badly, plus it can heal itself.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:17
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Rafa  The most difficult fights I can recall off the top of my head if you're not well prepared (other than the save file traps) are the Gafgarion fights and Chocobo Mobs. I wouldn't really call FFT grindy though.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:17
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Some people ground into having ninjas by dorter because of those brain things. A game being grindy and people grinding in it are two different things. FFV is beatable without a single second of grinding and yet people really like mastering every job for some reason.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:24
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jokes posted:Some people ground into having ninjas by dorter because of those brain things. I'm reminded of a recurring argument in the RPG thread about whether Disgaea is, if you just do the main story, "grindy." At least one poster insists that Disgaea is a very grindy game even if you just want to do the main story, pointing to how grindy the endgame is (by design, it's all about grinding to super big numbers), while other people who have actually played some Disgaea games point out that no, you can generally beat the main story without grinding. (This argument recurs because any time someone brings up grinding in Disgaea's endgame the argument starts again.) It makes me think of how the descriptor "grindy" has started to be used for any game where sometimes fighting a couple extra battles can be helpful, or you could get a rare drop or some good skills by stopping to grind but you don't have to.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:53
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Twelve by Pies posted:Seeing everyone say Soldier sucks in FFT is weird to me because Cloud is almost always a part of my FFT runs. I'm sure its stat growth sucks and yeah you have to equip the Materia Blade to use his Limit skill, but Finishing Touch is really fuckin' good, it's pretty much the only Limit skill worth using but it completely justifies it imo. And since Finishing Touch doesn't care about attack power, the weak attack of the Materia Blade doesn't matter. Yeah, his stats suck, and his weapon sucks, and his skillset sucks except for one skill. Nearly every unique character has a skill at least as useful as finishing touch, but have other or better options on the side, and they're not as restricted with gear. And some generic combos are just absolutely broken in comparison. But FFT is not a difficult game except for some specific maps when blind or unprepared, so Cloud's still perfectly viable.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:59
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