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VitalSigns posted:Interesting how Democrats had no problem passing a bill when McConnell could be counted on to kill it but now that they control everything the exact same bill is mysteriously taking months and months. Actually, the MORE Act of 2020 was first introduced in 2019, but took more than a year to make it through the House! the_steve posted:I'm saying that enough of them did it. Yes, that's another example of the Sanders campaign's failures to gain popular support, and blaming it on pollsters is just sour grapes. I'm just amazed at the list of excuses people have for leftism's electoral failures. It's never a failure of the left to connect with voters. It's always the mean capitalists saying bad things in the media, or the career politicians unfairly daring to actually campaign against the left. And now apparently the pollsters defeated Bernie Sanders by secretly rigging the "who would you vote for" polls against Bernie so that people would look at all the polls he was losing and vote against him solely because of those polls. Frankly, compared to the challenges that the left has had to overcome in previous eras, the pettiness of these excuses just goes to demonstrate how weak the modern left is. Eric Cantonese posted:The fact that it doesn't seem to have registered that the Democrats already had a federal weed-legalization bill in the works in this subforum before people noticed that tweet about the GOP counterproposal is an amazing example of how hopeless the Democrats apparently are at messaging. I'm fairly certain the Dems' messaging priorities have been elsewhere this year, what with a major pandemic and a number of very large spending bills full of major economic programs getting stalled in Congress. It's interesting to ask why Schumer's regular tweets about it haven't been noticed, but a tweet about a GOP freshman rep doing it was picked up and reposted with smug (and wrong) commentary right away. But I don't think that's particularly an issue on the part of the Dems, since the GOP legalization plans have gotten little press and even less support.
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Nov 15, 2021 19:50
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The Mattybee posted:I am asking you, once again, to give me an actual source for this outside of that Tweet. Shutting down the virus was not possible without lockdown measures much stronger than anything Trump did. This was already proven by a year of experience across multiple countries and proven again this year when the virus surged again in the US when stronger measures than what Trump did were not taken. Promising not to shut down the economy, unlike Trump, is therfore equivalent to criticizing Trump for doing too much. The defense that Biden was careful to lie and/or foolishly believe that the pandemic would just go away regardless does not change the analysis one iota imo
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Nov 15, 2021 19:55
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Main Paineframe posted:I'm just amazed at the list of excuses people have for leftism's electoral failures. It's never a failure of the left to connect with voters. It's always the mean capitalists saying bad things in the media, or the career politicians unfairly daring to actually campaign against the left. And now apparently the pollsters defeated Bernie Sanders by secretly rigging the "who would you vote for" polls against Bernie so that people would look at all the polls he was losing and vote against him solely because of those polls. Or the Supreme Court was bought off by Republicans. Or Russia. Or that the Midwest is just too horribly mean to be won over and they aren't really human beings. Or Gary Johnson. Or Jill Stein. Or Bernie Sanders didn't campaign hard enough for Clinton. Or that Joe Biden has become too leftist. Making excuses is built into the Democratic Party's DNA, and in 2020 Sanders truly became a Democrat.
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Nov 15, 2021 19:57
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VitalSigns posted:What I'm saying is pretty clear I think but I'll try again. He was defending himself against crazy attacks from the right saying he was going to lock the country down like China did, not promising to be lighter than Trump. If your memory reaches back about 13 months you’d remember that. Or maybe it does and you’re purposefully obfuscating that context. Who knows.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:00
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The Mattybee posted:However, arguing that this means the Democratic Party is "just as bad" when you're comparing a situation where Trump had the ability to stop the fire before it spread and getting pissy that Biden hasn't done enough to put out the fire... Hold on here. Let’s put this conversation into context. I was responding to this post Byzantine posted:Man, imagine if Hillary had won and then got bounced out of office after the coronavirus pandemic killed an unprecedented 10,000 Americans Do you honestly believe only ~10K Americans would have died from Covid under Hillary in 2020?
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Nov 15, 2021 20:01
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Do you honestly believe only ~10K Americans would have died from Covid under Hillary in 2020?
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Nov 15, 2021 20:04
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Eric Cantonese posted:
I don't think the Dem messaging is to blame, this is a single tweet from a Freshman senator vs the multiple tweets from Senate Dems around this bill, I think the rush to use this as a cudgel against the dems by two people in the same hour just shows how some people can get stuck in twitter/media bubbles and not really be very informed about the things they want to lash out at others about.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:06
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It's a really great example of how social media has changed how we consume news. Like people complain that elected dems suck at messaging but they invoke the correct power words and positions all the time. Nobody comes back and reports on that because its boring. But when two Senators get into a slap fight, or something comes up that inspires outrage or nihilism, it gets shared immediately. We are either going to live in a world that evolves past this or in a world where the only viable form of messaging is 'surprising outrage'.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:10
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Ytlaya posted:You're misinterpreting the polling as "if a candidate isn't polled as a person's favorite, they reject that candidate" (and acting like all the non-Bernie voters were always going to vote non-Bernie). While Bernie always would have lost in a direct 1v1 with Biden, he likely would have won against any of the other candidates; he was the #2 choice of most Biden voters (at least for when that was polled, and there's no reason to think it would have changed significantly). Yes, I understand that. That's why I'm comparing him to Ossoff in 2017: the only reason anyone got excited about Ossoff in the first place was because although it was a red district, a large number of conservatives were fighting over the conservative vote, allowing Ossoff to campaign mostly unhindered and carry a plurality that was tantalizingly close to a majority. The same is true here. Even though a majority of voters preferred liberal candidates, the liberal vote was split across a variety of candidates, giving Sanders the chance to carry a plurality despite rather low support levels. But that strategy failed for Ossoff, and it failed for Bernie too. If you can't get a majority of support even when your opponents are a disorganized mess who are currently actively undermining each other, then hoping to actually win with a rather small plurality by betting on your foes' incompetence is a pretty unlikely path to victory for someone who's challenging a race they'd normally never have a shot at. rare Magic card l00k posted:Or the Supreme Court was bought off by Republicans. Or Russia. Or that the Midwest is just too horribly mean to be won over and they aren't really human beings. Or Gary Johnson. Or Jill Stein. Or Bernie Sanders didn't campaign hard enough for Clinton. Or that Joe Biden has become too leftist. Oh, the liberals can make those excuses. After all, they rely on the support of banks, corporations, and big media figures in the first place. They can complain all they like about the media not supporting them, because the media are their primary base. It's the leftists who promised that their political movement derives its strength from the overwhelming support of the working people. It's the leftists who promised that the 99% (especially poor and non-white folks) would enthusiastically embrace leftist economic policy and drive a political revolution that would overturn the power of corporations and political machines through an overwhelming surge of electoral support. It's the leftists who promised that there would be an unprecedented surge of votes from younger people who typically don't vote, and that this would completely upset the pollsters' models and change the political dynamics of America forever. It's the leftists who are still promising, even now, that Dems will effortlessly sweep to massive victory if they only adopt leftist rhetoric and policy. Even though there's more and more polling, focus grouping, and (most importantly) failed electoral runs suggesting that it's not that easy, and that the left has to do some real work reconnecting to Americans and building a real political movement. Not a short-lived presidential campaign, but a bottom-to-top leftist political movement, building real support at all levels of politics and in all parts of the country (not just the bluest districts).
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Nov 15, 2021 20:13
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It's funny to think about that data point from earlier in the thread where people who were polled said both that while they wanted the Democrats to pass their legislature, they don't think it'll actually benefit them if it passes. New Jersey legalized weed I don't know how long ago and I still can't to buy it legally because there's nonstop bickering about taxes, where it can be sold (let's let every individual township decide!), what it can taxed at, where it'll go, and how are the cops going to unfairly prosecute people now? In that respect, it's very funny to see Booker's name associated with any pro-legalization effort. I could also point out how it only furthers people's perceptions that even if the Democrats manage to accomplish anything, you'll never see any tangible benefits. Edit: Mendrian posted:Like people complain that elected dems suck at messaging but they invoke the correct power words and positions all the time. See just like this. Maybe it's not that they're bad at messaging (they are), they do invoke the right power words and positions all the time. They just drag their feet on ever getting those things done Main Paineframe posted:It's the leftists who are still promising, even now, that Dems will effortlessly sweep to massive victory if they only adopt leftist rhetoric and policy. Even though there's more and more polling, focus grouping, and (most importantly) failed electoral runs suggesting that it's not that easy, and that the left has to do some real work reconnecting to Americans and building a real political movement. Not a short-lived presidential campaign, but a bottom-to-top leftist political movement, building real support at all levels of politics and in all parts of the country (not just the bluest districts). lol yes it's the leftists saying if you just close your eyes and wish upon a star and vote your hardest and for the right person everything is going to be okay Cow Bell fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 20:14
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Cow Bell posted:New Jersey legalized weed I don't know how long ago Um, it was February 2021. To take a year to put a regulatory system in place isn't incredibly unreasonable. Cow Bell posted:
e: Like Jesus Christ I just went and read it again and it's amazing how little your response has to do with that post Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 20:22
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The "dems" have introduced legalization multiple times. Why is a GOP bill that doesn't purge marijuana offenses be better than one that does? Oh I don't think most of them actually want it passed. I don't think most democrats want their own bill passed. The republican bill DOES allow those convicted of nonviolent federal crimes to attempt to have those convictions expunged but it appears the onus is on the person convicted so... pretty poo poo. I think it's about competition, controlling the narrative and to be used as a cudgel: socialsecurity posted:I don't think the Dem messaging is to blame, this is a single tweet from a Freshman senator vs the multiple tweets from Senate Dems around this bill, I think the rush to use this as a cudgel against the dems by two people in the same hour just shows how some people can get stuck in twitter/media bubbles and not really be very informed about the things they want to lash out at others about. I know about the dems' bill. I'm not cudgeling the democrats over this so please do not put words in my mouth or attempt to assign my intent, because you're dead-rear end wrong. The democrats' bill is far better in almost every way (but not all). I was asking for perspectives about this specific bill from posters in this thread, while also giving my personal perspective about regulation and a few of the current issues with marijuana + product legalization, which the republican bill doesn't address well and would definitely make worse. I agree that it is partially about narrative. If there is any possibility of it though, however doubtful, negotiation leading to something positive would be a huge win for everyone. It's not going to happen even if the republicans putting the bill up were acting in good faith. The republican party and it's leaders in both the House and Senate would obviously not act or negotiate in good faith and both bills will languish in committee. Looking at the specifics of the republican bill, even if there are no outright poison bills, helps us to understand what it is they're trying to accomplish. It could just be about the narrative/cudgeling democrats ("they don't want to legalize marijuana! SEE?!" or there could be other issues at hand. The bill, or a similar one, will likely be brought up again if the republicans retake the house and/or senate to this exact end. Basically, this post is exactly what I'm looking for: Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Dems already have a bill, so they aren't going to start with Mace's and modify from there. I'm aware of the dems' bill. I was asking for perspectives from the thread and thankfully, you gave exactly that. I agree that for criminal cases it's down to the states to be active in dealing with it, which sucks, because many states probably will keep those convicted in prison and jail as long as possible and not expunge records or restore rights of felons convicted under drugs laws. Some states will not decriminalize whatsoever. If the bill was miraculously passed (as I stated many democrats probably don't want to pass it), then plenty of states would keep it illegal or defacto illegal. One of the issues I have with the democrats' bill is how high the federal taxes are. I mean wowzers. The republican bill has far lower federal tax and allows states to opt out but also deals with interstate transport/commerce. But thank you for the information! Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 20:27
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:He was defending himself against crazy attacks from the right saying he was going to lock the country down like China did, not promising to be lighter than Trump. Yet another example where I wish the Dems actually were who the Republicans say they are, because locking the country down like China is precisely what we should have done at basically any point in the pandemic if we actually wanted to control it.* The Democrats that right wing media describes are so awesome. Shame they don’t exist. *I’m also aware this would be a massive political loser even if it worked because Americans are completely poisoned by a deranged conception of what individual freedom means, but it’s still very funny that this defense of Biden is pointing out that he was essentially saying “no no, I’m not going to do what’s necessary either!”
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Nov 15, 2021 20:28
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VitalSigns posted:What I'm saying is pretty clear I think but I'll try again. Sure. We agree on this. VitalSigns posted:Promising not to shut down the economy, unlike Trump, is therfore equivalent to criticizing Trump for doing too much. The defense that Biden was careful to lie and/or foolishly believe that the pandemic would just go away regardless does not change the analysis one iota imo This is where it turns into vitalsigns_makes_shit_up.txt, because these two things are not equivalent! One, you've been given context for that, in this very thread! quote:Trump accused Biden of wanting to shut down the economy and country to enact more government control of the lives of Americans. You have opted to ignore this in favor of insisting that those words mean what you really want them to mean, while also pretending that "starting a lockdown during the beginning of a pandemic" and "starting a lockdown after some dipshit has allowed the country to be open for a year and there's a shitload of public opposition to it" are the same thing, which you know perfectly well are not the same loving thing. Which is why I have asked you to give me a source on actual criticism, rather than "look! look! i really, REALLY want this thing to be true, so it must be!" And you keep evading it and insisting that if I read the tweet you are, that everything will become clear. I understand your explanation, it's just based on you working from a conclusion and figuring things out backwards. So, again, VitalSigns. Give me an actual source on "Biden thinks Trump's lockdown was too severe". Don't reiterate your tired, bad-faith explanation based on a Tweet.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:28
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Cow Bell posted:Edit: Oh yeah don't get me wrong; Dems, do indeed, suck. But yeah they suck because they can't do anything they claim they want to, not because they don't say the correct things. Well, then handful of Dems who aren't actually just blue Republicans not withstanding, they both suck and say the wrong things.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:28
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Mellow Seas posted:Um, it was February 2021. Murphey campaigned on legalizing weed when he was elected the first time. It was one of his core planks. It took them until Feb 2021 to get it passed and they had no idea what it would look like on the other end. I disagree. It's extremely unreasonable. Mellow Seas posted:You did a pretty poo poo job reading his post if this was your takeaway. What he said wasn't anything close to that, it was that adopting the Howie Hawkins platform isn't a surefire way for the Democrats to win forever. People can pretend all they want that Biden's approval rating is in the toilet because BBB got cut from 7 trillion and there's still kids in cages, when it's actually because of global macroeconomic trends, which are only making government spending less popular with the public in the short term. Bidens approval ratings are in the toilet because he sucks, op, not because of some nerd egg-headery that's going over the heads of the average American. They can look around and realize things aren't going so hot. I also didn't need to read all of their post to disagree with the incredibly stupid part at the bottom. I selected the part that was very dumb to single out from the rest. Thanks for your time
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Nov 15, 2021 20:34
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:
Well yes, it's crystal clear that lockouts like China would have been entirely 100% impossible legally, politically, socially, etc. You have to be an incredibly authoritarian state to be able to do it like China, and tho there are plenty of authoritarian states in the world only China went as far as they did and for as long as they have. Yet, in the end, China will have to live with covid just like the rest of the world. Zero covid is a fantasy. I think Biden has done about as good a job as feasible in our society and political reality, especially considering what he inherited. At least today right now it's mainly lunatic antivaxers who are doing the dying. Get your free booster shots, folks.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:37
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Solkanar512 posted:If Dems suck so much, why did Jay Inslee do such a great job? The Seattle-metro area has among the lowest COVID-19 death rates among any metro area in the nation. He was reelected to an unprecedented third consecutive term for that. He wasn't faking numbers or dining at the Herbfarm or Canlis, yet the effective governors are never given any credit because that would mean that things are more complicated than "DEMS BAD". Because the first major outbreak in Washington state was at a nursing home, and he (unlike Cuomo, Murphy, Walz, Pritzker, Wolf & Whitmer) took immediate steps to shield nursing-home residents from covid rather than shielding the for-profit owners of the nursing homes from legal liability. eta: quote:Had the rest of the nation followed Inslee's lead, hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved. Correct, as noted above. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 20:44
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The Mattybee posted:Sure. We agree on this. https://mobile.twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1423780997829734402 In light of that I think it's reasonable to conclude that when Biden gave lip service to "oh we'd lock down if we really needed to *wink*" that was just a lie to satisfy people who were worried about opening er up and his real message was what was in that tweet: pandering to suburbanites' fatigue over the illogical half-assed shutdowns that didn't work by promising, not to emulate effective lockdowns of Australia or China, but to just stop and get back to living our lives and number go up. Which is what he did. It seems to me that your interpretation is the one lacking evidentiary support since he did not in fact do the thing you assert he intended to do. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 20:45
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Cow Bell posted:Bidens approval ratings are in the toilet because he sucks, op, not because of some nerd egg-headery that's going over the heads of the average American. They can look around and realize things aren't going so hot. Yes, Biden sucks, but he's not unpopular because he sucks, he's unpopular because things suck, which they would right now no matter who was President. Cow Bell posted:I also didn't need to read all of their post to disagree with the incredibly stupid part at the bottom. I selected the part that was very dumb to single out from the rest. Thanks for your time MPF posted:Not a short-lived presidential campaign, but a bottom-to-top leftist political movement, building real support at all levels of politics and in all parts of the country (not just the bluest districts). Cow Bell posted:lol yes it's the leftists saying if you just close your eyes and wish upon a star and vote your hardest and for the right person everything is going to be okay Furthermore if you were actually interested in "a bottom-to-top leftist political movement, building real support at all levels of politics and in all parts of the country" you would be actually trying to understand what's going on and explaining it to people rather than going all  about people hating Biden as if that means they're on your side. They're not.
Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 20:45
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Yeah in hindsight, Obama ran the most optimal "avoid doing anything Republicans might criticize you for" administration in modern history, and they still lost their minds and openly embraced fascism in response. They invented multiple scandals out of thin air and the only reason they didn't really stick is because the economy was perceived as doing ok in the aftermath of the great recession. The narrative of Biden's term is already locked in and unlike Obama, Biden lacks the charisma to address any would-be bullshit and head it off at the pass before it takes root. He's a doddering old conservative shithead and I don't think his approval rating will get back over 42%. Obama's hail mary Bin Laden raid ensured his reelection and completely removed foreign policy as a topic of discussion in the national discourse for years. Biden won't have an equivalent and if anything, his necessary withdrawal from Afghanistan has given the reactionaries some ammo on that front. He did the right thing but that doesn't mean poo poo. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 20:51
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Mellow Seas posted:His approval ratings in the toilet because of poo poo he has no control over and would be no better if he had done everything on the D&D left-liberal dream list. At this point even sending out checks will just get assaulted with the narrative "they'll cause more inflation than the money you get!" and people will believe it. Keep dreaming that Biden is unpopular because he's not a leftist and not because 20% of Americans base their opinion of the President on loving gas prices. Biden literally said the checks contributed to inflation. He doesn't even need the GOP or whoever to attack him because he's attacking himself! And the irony is: People have more money now because of the first major piece of legislation I passed. You all got checks for $1,400. You got checks for a whole range of things. If you’re a mom and you have kids under the age of 7, you’re getting 300 bucks a month, and if it’s over — over 7 to 17, you’re getting $360 a month — like wealthy people used to when they’d get back tax returns. It changes people’s lives. But what happens if there’s nothing to buy and you got more money? You compete for getting it there. It creates a real problem.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:52
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I think if in 2022 people can get back to living their lives, declare the pandemic over, and the inflation and supply chain stuff gets worked out, that Biden will bounce back up there. Meeting material needs, and all that jazz.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:53
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Mellow Seas posted:You did a pretty poo poo job reading his post if this was your takeaway. What he said wasn't anything close to that, it was that adopting the Howie Hawkins platform isn't a surefire way for the Democrats to win forever. People can pretend all they want that Biden's approval rating is in the toilet because BBB got cut from 7 trillion and there's still kids in cages, when it's actually because of global macroeconomic trends, which are only making government spending less popular with the public in the short term. quote:It's the leftists who are still promising, even now, that Dems will effortlessly sweep to massive victory if they only adopt leftist rhetoric and policy. I don't think think its unreasonable to say actual properly implemented leftist policy could lead to electoral success (nevermind being the right thing to do), but considering the misrepresentation by media and other political leaders, an absurdly undemocratic system, and an electorate that's been consuming propaganda for decades (or not paying any attention at all), it's hard to imagine "the left" ever having any real power. In that context, I understand cow bells response and similarly don't understand/agree with MPF on that quote.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:53
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VitalSigns posted:Sure my source is the fact that he didn't lock down even after it was clear his policies had failed to beat the pandemic. His press secretary came right out and said "lol no" when asked if they were reconsidering their open 'er up policy I already explained this to you, VitalSigns. "Didn't lock down" is not the same as "Critical of President Trump for LOCKING DOWN TOO MUCH". Just because you really want me to have said something I didn't say, doesn't mean I did say that. VitalSigns posted:In light of that I think it's reasonable to conclude that when Biden gave lip service to "oh we'd lock down if we really needed to *wink*" that was just a lie to satisfy people who were worried about opening er up and his real message was what was in that tweet: pandering to suburbanites' fatigue over the illogical half-assed shutdowns that didn't work by promising, not to emulate effective lockdowns of Australia or China, but to just stop and get back to living our lives and number go up. Which is what he did. I do not think the tweet is good, I do not think it says what you keep insisting it says. VitalSigns posted:It seems to me that your interpretation is the one lacking evidentiary support since he did not in fact do the thing you assert he intended to do. It seems to me that you keep not actually addressing what I'm saying, but I suppose that's what I get for arguing with the person who has 70+ probations in this thread for being deliberately an rear end in a top hat, arguing in bad faith, putting words in opponents' mouths, and just generally being incapable of acting like a decent person, and yet was still allowed back in even though he's given zero evidence that he can do anything other than be an inflammatory, self-centered dick.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:54
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How are u posted:I think if in 2022 people can get back to living their lives, declare the pandemic over, and the inflation and supply chain stuff gets worked out, that Biden will bounce back up there. Meeting material needs, and all that jazz. People here don't want to hear this but the vast majority of Americans are done with the pandemic. People losing their lives be damned, Let's Go Brandon until we can do Sunday Brunch without masks!
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Nov 15, 2021 20:54
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:The narrative of Biden's term is already locked in and unlike Obama, Biden lacks the charisma to address any would-be bullshit and head it off at the pass before it takes root. He's a doddering old conservative shithead and I don't think his approval rating will get back over 42%. I mean around this time in 1993 people also thought Bill Clinton's narrative was locked in - but then a 78 year old Biden is a lot less nimble and resilient than a 47 year old Bill Clinton, and there are all kinds of economic problems now that were much lesser factors (healthcare/education costs, inequality) or not factors (Covid and supply chain poo poo) back then. Still I think it's possible that if inflation slows down and covid numbers continue to go down (and yes, I realize they're creeping up the last couple of weeks) then he'll regain some popularity - enough to get in that Obama 45% zone. We'll know more in a year - it's possible though that our best hope for '24 is that Biden is unpopular enough to not run but not so unpopular that it extends to all Democrats, and that Republicans really act like a bunch of gross assholes in the 118th Congress to remind people that the Smiley Face version of Ron DeSantis or whoever they run is blowing smoke up your rear end when he talks about how he's going to be a President for All Americans or whatever the poo poo. e: post below Willa Rogers posted:Lol, Biden's the only one who has said this.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:57
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Mellow Seas posted:His approval ratings in the toilet because of poo poo he has no control over and would be no better if he had done everything on the D&D left-liberal dream list. At this point even sending out checks will just get assaulted with the narrative "they'll cause more inflation than the money you get!" and people will believe it. Lol, Biden's the only one who has said this. How are u posted:I think if in 2022 people can get back to living their lives, declare the pandemic over, and the inflation and supply chain stuff gets worked out, that Biden will bounce back up there. Meeting material needs, and all that jazz. And they call leftists the unicorns farting fairy dust.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:57
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Cow Bell posted:Murphey campaigned on legalizing weed when he was elected the first time. It was one of his core planks. It took them until Feb 2021 to get it passed and they had no idea what it would look like on the other end. It had to be put to a referendum because the senate leader in NJ, Steve Sweeney, held it up a bunch of times. You may know him as the dude who got removed by a guy with a triple digit election fund.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:58
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Mellow Seas posted:His approval ratings in the toilet because of poo poo he has no control over Disagree Mellow Seas posted:and would be no better if he had done everything on the D&D left-liberal dream list. Interesting crystal ball you must be peering into for facts like this Mellow Seas posted:At this point even sending out checks will just get assaulted with the narrative "they'll cause more inflation than the money you get!" and people will believe it. Do you think this has anything to do with the President himself offering up this little gem? Mellow Seas posted:Keep dreaming that Biden is unpopular because he's not a leftist This keeps coming up but I don't think people have been saying that everyone would be lining up to kiss Joe's feet if he was a leftist, but that maybe he wouldn't be as wildly unpopular if he did things that are broadly liked Mellow Seas posted:and not because 20% of Americans base their opinion of the President on loving gas prices. Disagree Mellow Seas posted:he's unpopular because things suck, which they would right now no matter who was President. Maybe! Mellow Seas posted:OK, so not only do you openly gloat about not reading a post you responded to, you think it's reasonable to say that this I'm doing okay, just a little bored at work. Thanks for checking in on my mental health. I seem to recall we were no longer going to make assumptions on the mental wellbeing of posters just because we disagree with them, but I guess we can't all be perfect  .The entire post was bad. I didn't need to do a line by line edit to point out it was bad, when mainly I just wanted to guffaw at the terrible last point being made. I agree to an extent that the Left needs needs make larger inroads to reaching out to people in a non-electoral setting. The rest is just drivel and completely unreal characterization of arguments being presented. No one thinks if you just say the right things we will flip the switch to automated luxury gay communism on a ride of electoral success. Meatball posted:It had to be put to a referendum because the senate leader in NJ, Steve Sweeney, held it up a bunch of times. You may know him as the dude who got removed by a guy with a triple digit election fund. I know and Mr. Durr is trying real hard to kill any of the fun in his winning by going on Tucker every day since. My point is that people are constantly touting the good things Democrats do - like take 6 years to pass an overwhelmingly popular law only to not have a plan for when it gets hamstrung along in the process for months again after that. It lends credence to the belief that if the Democrats do pass a law, you or me or Joe Blow won't see the tangible benefits from it (at least for quite some time). Mostly I'm just mad that I saw another post saying Booker and Schumer are involved in trying to get it passes federally when they can't seem to get it done at home, either. Cow Bell fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 21:00
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Yeah, I’m thinking that maybe allowing VitalSigns back in was a bad idea. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 15, 2021 21:06
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Cow Bell posted:I'm doing okay, just a little bored at work.  Cow Bell posted:The entire post was bad. I didn't need to do a line by line edit to point out it was bad, when mainly I just wanted to guffaw at the terrible last point being made. I agree to an extent that the Left needs needs make larger inroads to reaching out to people in a non-electoral setting. Rodenthar Drothman posted:Yeah, I’m thinking that maybe allowing VitalSigns back in was a bad idea. He can do better; he just has to move his sarcasm dial off the "Chandler Bing" setting.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:07
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The problem with the inflation story is you have quite a lot of centrist Democrats (and the suburbanites who love them) who also believe that the Covid relief checks are the cause of inflation. Larry Summers is making himself out to look like Cassandra and at least one other ex-Obama adviser is saying so too. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/10/fed-behind-curve-on-inflation-former-obama-economist-jason-furman.html quote:While he supported President [Biden's] Covid financial relief plan, Furman told CNBC the plan “was larger than it needed to be” and that has played a role in the inflation now being experienced in the economy. The real fact is that the tools of the Biden administration are very limited. The inflation that people are getting in a lather about are fuel and transportation supply shocks that are basic free market failures where scarcity and demand are driving prices up. History shows price controls don't work (because the private sector will just throw a tantrum and become even less productive) and I'm not even sure if subsidies would do much, especially in the short term. Even tapping into the strategic petroleum reserves could backfire in the long term and god knows what all this is doing to undermine the political will for pushing towards green energy. This state of affairs is also giving older voters flashbacks to the mid-to-late 70s so they're really buying the "government caused inflation!" narrative. It casts the least amount of blame on them. "It's not my decisions or failures or greed that caused this inflation! It's the bums!"
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Nov 15, 2021 21:11
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Biden won't address the fact that inflation is almost entirely due to a lack of truckers and there is a lack of truckers because the job sucks and pays like poo poo.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:18
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I don’t think it would have matter than much which party was in control at the start of the pandemic. The only thing that could have stopped it at the beginning would have been to pay everyone to stay home for 2 months to get it under control and then rolling shutdowns for when hot spots showed up. Neither party had any stomach to do that. Even among liberal groups COVID was a joke that china was dealing with when reports started trickling in around January and February of 2020. This didn’t really change until about mid march when people realized “oh poo poo this actually really bad.” Then again it wan’t until April or June 2020 when liberals started to coalesce around wearing masks. At that point it was too late to do much about it since a full shutdown was never going to happen. Raccooon fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 21:22
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Main Paineframe posted:Yes, that's another example of the Sanders campaign's failures to gain popular support, and blaming it on pollsters is just sour grapes. lol The silly Left, can't even overcome one measly multibillion dollar media empire with a vested interest in making sure that the Left never gets anywhere near the levers of power. Must just be sour grapes that they can't just work around a 24/7 media cycle that saturates the daily lives of tens of millions of people and will smother any story it doesn't want to gain traction  Obviously, if the Left had wanted to get word out and connect with people, it should have done something like get people going door to door with petitions and flyers and other grassroots efforts. Oh wait, they did. But hey, gently caress them for not being able to undo in an hour conversation with somebody the efforts of months upon months of "If you vote for anybody except Joe Biden you will have personally ushered in a thousand years of darkness and murdered everyone you ever loved while the very concept of democracy is scrubbed from the collective human consciousness."
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Nov 15, 2021 21:22
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the_steve posted:lol I mean this C+H that VitalSigns posted in the Politoons thread sums it probably - as soon as our dominant form of culture became "corporate advertising" we were probably done with as a society until something (probably really bad) happens to reset things.  I'm willing to keep muddling along as best we can and waiting for something that isn't really bad to help. The internet could've been that thing, but was coopted rather forcefully and now things seem bleaker than ever.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:25
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Alex Jones has exhausted the court's patience with noncompliance (again) and received a default judgement against him (again) and now owes (more) damages to the Sandy Hook families. https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-br-sandy-hook-lawsuit-alex-jones-hearing-20211115-ccie6kyugrcenm5pjrje7xswk4-story.html
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Nov 15, 2021 21:27
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How long do you guys think the Rittenhouse jury is going to deliberate for?
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Nov 15, 2021 21:31
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The Mattybee posted:I already explained this to you, VitalSigns. "Didn't lock down" is not the same as "Critical of President Trump for LOCKING DOWN TOO MUCH". Just because you really want me to have said something I didn't say, doesn't mean I did say that. Trump loved this tactic right, he said all things to everyone and let people pick and choose what they wanted to hear. If I said Trump promised to replace Obamacare with a more free market system and throw poor and sick people to the (metaphorical) wolves, would you pull out that interview clip of Trump promising the government would fully pay for healthcare for all who couldn't afford it and demand I prove to you, PROVE TO YOU that Trump's promise to repeal was him promising insurance companies he'd kill the poor? Because I could prove it to you, by pointing that he didn't even bother to try to pass free healthcare to the poor when he was in power but he did try to cut medicaid. If you want to insist that his actions say nothing about his intent and you need real proof (I suppose a signed confession or maybe a Vulcan mindmeld would do?) well that stance is just a little too gullible for me to possibly take seriously. It's pretty clear what was going on imo, I guess it is to you too since you're just resorting to insults now. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 21:33
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