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zoux posted:Another thing I noticed was this is the new champion coming to the game
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Nov 15, 2021 22:29
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zoux posted:Another thing I noticed was It's the walk and muffled humming that really sells the joke. Jetrauben posted:I really like her stance and style, too. Even as a kid Vi's all straight lines, tight stance and direct straight-line attacks in a way that you rarely ever see in lady heroes. What makes it even better for me is that it's completely unremarked upon. Vi is a tough, hotheaded, masculine brawler who also happens to be a woman, but the contrast they draw between her and Caitlyn (and, hell, even Caitlyn and her own family) is entirely about class and not gender expectations. It might've changed in the years since I really cracked open a fantasy series, but that kinda writing was vanishingly rare when I was growing up.
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Nov 15, 2021 22:31
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Speaking of that, they totally catered to me with the Caitlyn/Vi stuff. Not the shipping part, although yes they should smooch and get married, but I mean that specific pair as a trope. The tough street smart one who is way more rough around the edges who comes from the wrong side of the tracks, and the proper rich one who comes from the "nice" part of town and hasn't experienced real fighting before. And they have to work together, the rich person struggles with the rough way of doing things, tough person gets in over their head (cause they get too cocky), rich person saves tough person. I'm a total sucker for that trope so every part with the two of them just worked perfectly for me. There's plenty of tropy stuff but I love the tropes that I love and there were a lot in this so I also want to say that obviously Jinx gets a lot of the discussion because she's like the face of the game, but I think they also do an amazing job with Heimerdinger. This little furry old man who has a high pitched voice, his introduction is playing with his height and then he walks into the room with his tiny little tippy tappy feet. But he's also one of the most respected people in Piltover, and is basically the one who made Piltover what it was today. And I think the saddest I felt in the whole series so far wasn't Vander's death, but when the council all votes to remove Heimer. The look on his face of sadness and betrayal, the voice acting when he goes "Jayce, don't do this", the animation on his EYES. Just. 
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Nov 15, 2021 22:33
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Heimer got what he deserved.
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Nov 15, 2021 22:34
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Jerkface posted:Heimer got what he deserved. That's the one character/VA performance I haven't really dug.
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Nov 15, 2021 22:35
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Jerkface posted:Heimer got what he deserved. 
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Nov 15, 2021 22:36
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Macaluso posted:Speaking of that, they totally catered to me with the Caitlyn/Vi stuff. Not the shipping part, although yes they should smooch and get married, but I mean that specific pair as a trope. The tough street smart one who is way more rough around the edges who comes from the wrong side of the tracks, and the proper rich one who comes from the "nice" part of town and hasn't experienced real fighting before. And they have to work together, the rich person struggles with the rough way of doing things, tough person gets in over their head (cause they get too cocky), rich person saves tough person. I'm a total sucker for that trope so every part with the two of them just worked perfectly for me. What I especially liked was that it nicely subverts the expected outcome of Caitlyn saving her life and Vi doing an immediate about-face on what she thinks of Cait. Cait shoves her naive foot in her mouth almost immediately after, and her following Vi to the flare causes the whole situation to fall apart catastrophically. zoux posted:That's the one character/VA performance I haven't really dug. I think it's a tough act to get right, really. Heimerdinger's always been a joke character with a goofy muppet voice, so making him the voice of reason speaking gravely about the horrors of the past is a hard sell.
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Nov 15, 2021 22:40
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SirSamVimes posted:She probably got a lot of boximg practise when apparently every time a henchman of Silco gets arrested, she immediately beats the poo poo out of them. This was actually a bit of a plot hole for me. Is that prison just like the forever hole? No guests, no parole. Because if literally any of silco's henchmen ever walked out you would think they'd tell him that Vi was alive.
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Nov 15, 2021 22:59
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I think it's a consequence of being attached to League, as much as I loathe League and Riot's management these days, that Arcane by ad large doesn't actually have many villains. Almost every character who's an in-game champion has clear, understandable and reasonable motivations for what they're doing and ways they want to make the world around them better. When they clash it's because they're forced to by circumstance and you can clearly understand and respect everyone's motivations and virtues. Jayce HATES what he does to Heimerdinger, and yet as much as it's a dick move it's also a clearly understandable and even defensible act that honestly was probably the right call. The rest of the Council are assholes, but he's not. Because most of the ensemble cast are playable characters who are somebody's favorite, the writers have to take pains to make all of them feel like the heroes of their own stories. It's really just Silco, the Council, and their respective crews that are unabashed dicks and even Silco is shown with some basic points despite being an utter monster. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 23:03
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SirSamVimes posted:She probably got a lot of boximg practise when apparently every time a henchman of Silco gets arrested, she immediately beats the poo poo out of them. I was thinking about this after and it seems hard to believe that some mention of Vi's existence in the prison wouldn't have gotten back to Silco at some point or other since: 1) Silco is the leader of a criminal gang that surely has some large element inside the walls of the local prison, like most gangs tend to do over a long enough period of time 2) As you mentioned, Vi is not exactly trying to hide her existence in the prison if she just attacks and maims anyone involved with Silco from the past 3) We can be quite confident this has happened several times before because the prison guard troll dude mentioned having given Vi the beatdown some countless number of times for various infractions. like that Marcus isn't very bright because prison would be the last place you would want to put someone in witness protection from what is effectively the Zaun mafia And yet Silco is just shocked to learn that she is still alive and kicking... not a very good criminal mastermind! oh darn, literally beaten by a couple of minutes.. glad i'm not the only one this granular lol **actually wait a minute, now that I think about it again Marcus truly is a moron because he took someone he knew to be involved with Silco's drug running operations that fell under his power and placed him into the prison to discover Vi's existence.. despite obviously knowing that if Silco ever found out Vi was alive and Marcus had lied to him there could be severe consequences. So maybe he had just never been dumb enough to do that before, all of the people close enough to Silco to the point where they would know who Vi was were on a protected list, and he just f'd up this one time because he was trying to get the prisoner away from Caitlyn's detective work. Starsfan fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 15, 2021 |
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Nov 15, 2021 23:24
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Yeah, Silco's a straight up mob boss who doesn't tolerate challenges to his power, but in his own mind he's hiding all of that under genuine resentment for Piltover's exploitation of Zaun and a belief that the undercity army he's putting together is the only chance of ever stopping Piltover before they become too powerful to take on, whatever the cost in lives on both side may be. And he might not be wrong about it being the only way, at least in the short term. There's actually a kind of neat mirror between Heimerdinger/Jayce&Viktor and Vander/Silco, where the older voice of experience cautions against attempts at radical change due to the risks of it making things worse, while the younger idealists see a status quo that already causes an unacceptable level of misery and hardship, and rejects the notion of slow, incremental improvement as consigning the present generations to that status quo.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:25
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Caros posted:This was actually a bit of a plot hole for me. Is that prison just like the forever hole? No guests, no parole. Because if literally any of silco's henchmen ever walked out you would think they'd tell him that Vi was alive. I just assumed that the mob boss who owns all the cops in town wouldn't have his guys get sent to jail very often. We know there are other gangs (firelights) or possibly "subsidiary" gangs that don't know about Vi and Vi would have no reason to immediately kick the poo poo out of even if they do get sent to Vi's specific maximum security jail.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:38
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I think the show is handling the idea that there is no real villain pretty well. Like yeah, Silco is obviously not a good person, and the closest to an actual villain you get, but he's got a point about the fake peace Vander had going and how fragile it really was. The council aren't evil, just greedy as gently caress and ambitious. Even Viktor, who in at least one version of League's lore was the closest to being an actual out and out villain is being shown to have a really cohesive fall into ends justifying the means. Hell, if anything, Jayce is the real villain of the show because every single major plot element has been caused either directly or indirectly by his actions, and that's sort of refreshing to see after his League portrayal being pretty much just "Tony Stark but without the drinking problem." I was absolutely ready to hate the show even as a fan of the past few years of League lore, but they're managing to take a lot of really loose elements and finally fill in some big gaps in the existing content while setting up some major changes for down the line when they bring everything together for that MMO they're working on.
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Nov 15, 2021 23:45
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Singe seems like he's probably not a good dude 
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Nov 16, 2021 00:10
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yeah singed is essentially Runeterran Mengele and while I don't really agree with the complaint in the first place, I think he's probably gonna put any complaints about lack of villains to bed in act 3
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Nov 16, 2021 00:15
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Caros posted:This was actually a bit of a plot hole for me. Is that prison just like the forever hole? No guests, no parole. Because if literally any of silco's henchmen ever walked out you would think they'd tell him that Vi was alive. To be fair, it probably is a forever hole. The enforcers aren't terribly nice people. But it might not be a plot hole. Though Silco told Jinx she was dead, it doesn't mean he doesn't know what actually happened to her. Marcus disappeared her under Silco's orders after all. So there is a decent chance Silco knew she was incarcerated. So even if word gotten back to him, it wouldn't have changed anything, she was already taken care of. If it weren't for Caitlyn, no doubt she would have been stuck in that prison until she died of old age.
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Nov 16, 2021 00:18
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No I don't think so, there is an entire scene where Silco says Marcus you told me she was dead and now I found out she is alive, what are you gonna do to fix this?
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Nov 16, 2021 00:21
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Jetrauben posted:I think it's a consequence of being attached to League, as much as I loathe League and Riot's management these days, that Arcane by ad large doesn't actually have many villains. Almost every character who's an in-game champion has clear, understandable and reasonable motivations for what they're doing and ways they want to make the world around them better. When they clash it's because they're forced to by circumstance and you can clearly understand and respect everyone's motivations and virtues. Jayce HATES what he does to Heimerdinger, and yet as much as it's a dick move it's also a clearly understandable and even defensible act that honestly was probably the right call. The rest of the Council are assholes, but he's not. It is hard to even see Silco as the villain of the story, outside of his obvious villain coding and the willingness to kill of Vander's kids in part 1. I mean, not to get too political, but Piltover/Zaun draws some fairly dark comparisons to things like south africa or the modern treatment of palestinians. They're kept off in their own little segmented area with high poverty, crime and environmental damage. They tried to rise up at some point in the past and got beaten down by a militarily superior foe. The Piltover enforcers are able to come into the city, search without probable cause and even detain and search children. Hell, they disappeared a child into prison for the better part of a decade without charges. The relationship there is profoundly hosed up, and I can't imagine anyone fighting that battle to be particularly well adjusted.
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Nov 16, 2021 00:21
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I don't think anyone has brought it up yet but I think at the beginning of Episode 3 they show some absolutely disgustingly chemmed up water and then show happy undercity kids diving into it. It is an incredibly gut wrenching scene- Piltover is not the heroes. Which is why Heimer absolutely deserves to get got, because Jayce & Viktor are right the organic hex core is the type of thing that they want to make to help everyone, where as their first invention just made everyone topside richer. They should be harnessing magic to remove pollution and poo poo
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Nov 16, 2021 00:23
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Caros posted:It is hard to even see Silco as the villain of the story, outside of his obvious villain coding and the willingness to kill of Vander's kids in part 1. Silco has a valid grievance, but he's also gleefully making it worse. That scene where he's doling out Shimmer to the poor feral junkies felt very revealing. He's right Piltover aren't the "good guys" and clearly thinks he's a freedom fighter, but he and his crew - especially Sevika - are absolutely abusing their power over ordinary Zaunites. And of course the second things go wrong for Silco, he loses his temper and starts hurting people - whomever's in reach, even if they're just a random bystander. There's a dark parallel with how he's ended up in a very similar position to Vander. He's making deals with Piltover cops, he's putting off his big revolution for some future day while convincing himself a better moment is around the corner. And some of this is just pragmatic, but unlike Vander, he doesn't even try to protect his people and exploits Zaunite desperation, where Vander absolutely refused to give his people up. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 00:36
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We also see that Shimmer has some medicinal applications but Silco's goons are distributing it in a narcotic form or using it as combat augmentation. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ququi3/my_arcane_theory_about_one_of_the_firelight/ Reddit theory thread on Viktor's assistant, with 1 more twist than just being a firelight. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 00:38
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Jetrauben posted:Silco has a valid grievance, but he's also gleefully making it worse. That scene where he's doling out Shimmer to the poor feral junkies felt very revealing. He's right Piltover aren't the "good guys" and clearly thinks he's a freedom fighter, but he and his crew - especially Sevika - are absolutely abusing their power over ordinary Zaunites. And of course the second things go wrong for Silco, he loses his temper and starts hurting people - whomever's in reach, even if they're just a random bystander. There's probably something to comparing it to how some ethnic organized crime groups ostensibly started to protect 'their own' but lost track of that really early on if it was ever a thing (and it was usually not).
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Nov 16, 2021 02:42
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Watching this totally blind, never played LoL know nothing of the characters or lore or anything and it's really great. The art direction and animation is astonishingly good. Episode 3 was a bit unexpected. Really fun show.
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Nov 16, 2021 02:46
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Silco is the natural endpoint of the violent suppression of revolution: if you kill or cow all the reasonable people who dream of a better future, then all you're left with is monsters with nightmares to fill the void. There may've been a noble dream in Silco's heart once, but he's very clearly now a man motivated by cold, calculated vengeance, and he doesn't care how many of his erstwhile comrades have to suffer and die for him to achieve it.
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Nov 16, 2021 03:25
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Vermain posted:Silco is the natural endpoint of the violent suppression of revolution: if you kill or cow all the reasonable people who dream of a better future, then all you're left with is monsters with nightmares to fill the void. There may've been a noble dream in Silco's heart once, but he's very clearly now a man motivated by cold, calculated vengeance, and he doesn't care how many of his erstwhile comrades have to suffer and die for him to achieve it. He's a Bond villain, and he's personally in control of the police. There's nothing cogent here about revolution.
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Nov 16, 2021 03:33
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Open Source Idiom posted:He's a Bond villain, and he's personally in control of the police. There's nothing cogent here about revolution. Silco's rise is a direct result of Vander's failure to see his revolutionary dream realized, both because his attempt to kill his still-revolutionary brother went awry, and because his unwillingness to stand up to Piltover again pushed more and more people like Sevika into his orbit.
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Nov 16, 2021 03:48
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reminder that this is the person who thought that viktor having a limp was villain coding
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Nov 16, 2021 03:55
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SirSamVimes posted:reminder that this is the person who thought that viktor having a limp was villain coding Show's villains: woman with prosthetic arm, man with missing eye, mentally ill girl. Jury's out on whether Viktor is a villain or not, but signs still pointing to yes.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:00
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Open Source Idiom posted:Show's villains: woman with prosthetic arm, man with missing eye, mentally ill girl. Silco isn't missing his eye it is scarred, and Powder/Jinx is not a villain (in the terms of the show) she's a fallen comrade.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:06
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That lady prodding Jayce in the direction she wants is deffo a villain.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:07
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MarcusSA posted:That lady prodding Jayce in the direction she wants is deffo a villain. This too, she's outright (Episode 5, plus general setting spoilers) painting Noxus Prime and the Immortal Bastion. Noxus Prime being the capitol of the meritocratic expansionist roman legion style empire that explicitly wants to conquer the world.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:15
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why do we have 2 separate people on this page not counting the guy last seen hooking up a pokemon to a Pain Generator as a villain
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Nov 16, 2021 04:17
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Lord_Magmar posted:This too, she's outright (Episode 5, plus general setting spoilers) painting Noxus Prime and the Immortal Bastion. Noxus Prime being the capitol of the meritocratic expansionist roman legion style empire that explicitly wants to conquer the world. I'm glad they're gonna address that in part 3, since I've been curious about where we're supposed to be in the timeline. Singed's lore as-is had him making chemical weapons for Noxus during the Ionian Invasion, the proceeds from which allowed him to be self-funded, so my assumption has been that this has all been during Darkwill's time and Swain is still just a regular ol' general.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:20
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Monicro posted:why do we have 2 separate people on this page not counting the guy last seen hooking up a pokemon to a Pain Generator as a villain Because Singed being a villain is so obvious it need not be said. He's uh, probably the most nightmarish human villain in League by my last review of all the playable champions. Jhin might be worse but a) he's much more stylish and definitely has something wrong with him mentally and b) Singed is a war crime specialist.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:20
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Lord_Magmar posted:Silco isn't missing his eye it is scarred, and Powder/Jinx is not a villain (in the terms of the show) she's a fallen comrade. Sure, but he's got huge loving Bond villain scars and a purple glowing eye that he needs treatments for so he won't actually lose it. It doesn't really take away from my point here. And Jinx is a total villain. She's the lead bad guy's favourite enforcer (a dude who literally kicked a man to death as a form of therapy). Pretty sure she'd have to do a bunch of murders to get into his good graces, and to gain the reputation she has on the street.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:23
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Open Source Idiom posted:Sure, but he's got huge loving Bond villain scars and a purple glowing eye that he needs treatments for so he won't actually lose it. It doesn't really take away from my point here. She's a victim he molded into a weapon from childhood via (lovely) parenting, she's literally a fallen friend/hero trope.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:25
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Lord_Magmar posted:Because Singed being a villain is so obvious it need not be said. He's uh, probably the most nightmarish human villain in League by my last review of all the playable champions. Jhin might be worse but a) he's much more stylish and definitely has something wrong with him mentally and b) Singed is a war crime specialist. it just seems weird to me to make a whole thing about how its problematic to set up viktor as a villain and then ignore the guy getting shown proudly torturing a plushie Open Source Idiom posted:And Jinx is a total villain. She's the lead bad guy's favourite enforcer (a dude who literally kicked a man to death as a form of therapy). Pretty sure she'd have to do a bunch of murders to get into his good graces, and to gain the reputation she has on the street. do you think jesse was a villain when he got enslaved by the nazis (and jinx was literally a traumatized child so dont try to say she had agency)
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Nov 16, 2021 04:28
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Lord_Magmar posted:She's a victim he molded into a weapon from childhood via (lovely) parenting, she's literally a fallen friend/hero trope. Again, what you're saying doesn't really take away from any point I'm making here. Her being one archetype doesn't preclude her also being the other. She's mentally unstable, and her instability is inherently tied to her being violent, dangerous and cruel, and respected within a violent, dangerous and cruel organisation. She has tragic backstory and can be "redeemed" of her crimes, or whatever, sure, but to be a redeemable figure she has to have done a great deal of wrong.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:29
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if you remove every character and plot point that conflicts with this, the show is very ableist
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Nov 16, 2021 04:32
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Open Source Idiom posted:Again, what you're saying doesn't really take away from any point I'm making here. Her being one archetype doesn't preclude her also being the other. Her instability is tied to great trauma and being raised by a violent, dangerous and cruel organisation. The latter caused the former instead of the former the latter. Her instability is tied with her past, but her turning that into the violence it is is because she was raised by Silco since she was 7.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:33
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