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Vampire Panties posted:Thufir Hawat says it costs 1.4m solarii to drag 3 guild navigators and retinue out to Caladan. I dont have the book in front of me, but google says 10g of primo spice could go for up to 620k solarii. Yeah that's what always bugged me. Like the stuff is just too expensive for characters to treat it so casually. If a literal handful can buy you a planet it's impossible for it to be used in such massive quantities by individuals. Even the turbo-rich couldn't afford to just salt their food with it like they supposedly do. At that price/rarity no one but the a governmental entity (which the guild essentially is) could actually afford to have stockpiles of it. The microscopic amounts private actors, even Great Houses, could afford would be used up in an afternoon. Someone call up Frank Herbert I've got to tell him his math is wrong.
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Nov 16, 2021 06:24
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the Fremen are the wildcat miners. They smuggle that poo poo off world to the Spacing Guild. I wonder how much spice the Guild actually hauls out of there, because those dudes walking around in their freebase helmets have a street value in the billions.
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galagazombie posted:Yeah that's what always bugged me. Like the stuff is just too expensive for characters to treat it so casually. If a literal handful can buy you a planet it's impossible for it to be used in such massive quantities by individuals. Even the turbo-rich couldn't afford to just salt their food with it like they supposedly do. At that price/rarity no one but the a governmental entity (which the guild essentially is) could actually afford to have stockpiles of it. The microscopic amounts private actors, even Great Houses, could afford would be used up in an afternoon. Someone call up Frank Herbert I've got to tell him his math is wrong. Unless there's a fine gradation of spice purity, ranging from garbage tier food additives through to navigator helmet grade, depending on the size of the worm that made it, etc etc. Alternatively, Frank's maths is terrible. This is the guy who described 21÷6=3??? as a "flashing computation," after all
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Nov 16, 2021 06:53
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Kinda weird the Fremen snag and refine enough spice from under the current ruler's nose to bribe the space guild, smugglers, traders, food importers, etc, but they don't just import water.
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Nov 16, 2021 06:59
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Science fiction writers, like most humans, are really bad at understanding things that are on a scale larger than a small town, nevermind a planet. Spice rarity and usage is the sort of thing it doesn't help to think too hard about, but on the other hand this is also a universe where all commerce is strangled by a feudal monopoly so none of the economics would make sense anyway and the rich own entire planetary fiefs.
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Nov 16, 2021 07:01
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Yeah, 62k solarii/gram is for your pure grade-a artisanal poo poo. Most people just pick up a tub of Navigator's Choice™ Processed Melange Substance at the local CHOAM's Club and call it good enough.
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Nov 16, 2021 07:04
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Yeah, 62k solarii/gram is for your pure grade-a artisanal poo poo. Most people just pick up a tub of Navigator's Choice™ Processed Melange Substance at the local CHOAM's Club and call it good enough. PBUC(HOAMCo)
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Nov 16, 2021 07:45
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euphronius posted:The Fremen aren’t “hard” because of desert life. Even pre Paul they have an easy time of it and just live “below the radar”. They are strong Because they have good ideas I also figured that Fremen are so badass fighters because they literally mainline Spice from birth and Spice extends life yidda yadda, so they gain literal superpowers from it and are therefore better fighters. Also they've been fighting an insurrection for at least 80 years, so they get supposedly plenty of fighting experience from that.
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Nov 16, 2021 07:48
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Yeah, 62k solarii/gram is for your pure grade-a artisanal poo poo. Most people just pick up a tub of Navigator's Choice™ Processed Melange Substance at the local CHOAM's Club and call it good enough. It grants prescience of things you sort of knew about already, and extends your life by three to four minutes. A handful of Navigator's Choice™ will buy you a mansion snowglobe on Tupile.
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Nov 16, 2021 07:49
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stratdax posted:Kinda weird the Fremen snag and refine enough spice from under the current ruler's nose to bribe the space guild, smugglers, traders, food importers, etc, but they don't just import water. "The masses of Arrakis will know that we work to make the land flow with water," his father said. "Most of them, of course, will have only a semimystical understanding of how we intend to do this. Many, not understanding the prohibitive mass-ratio problem, may even think we'll bring water from some other planet rich in it. Let them think anything they wish as long as they believe in us."
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Nov 16, 2021 07:57
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Assuming the Atreides ships were kind of typical stock carriers, you could definitely have your smuggler buddies bring in a big tank of water for the sietch, but that poo poo's useless on a planetary scale. I imagine that was how the Fremen largely lived before Kynes, they grew some stuff in sietch and manufactured all their custom stuff from spice residues but things like bulk staples and coffee sets they got on the Smuggler Express.
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Nov 16, 2021 08:01
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couldnt the guild park one end of a heighliner into an ocean somewhere and just spew water out of it onto arrakis 
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Nov 16, 2021 08:15
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Eau de MacGowan posted:couldnt the guild park one end of a heighliner into an ocean somewhere and just spew water out of it onto arrakis Siphoning guild.
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Nov 16, 2021 10:27
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What does Bidenesque even mean? I can't name a single identifying policy of that man.
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Nov 16, 2021 11:22
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Arachno-Bidenism
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Nov 16, 2021 11:53
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THE BAR posted:What does Bidenesque even mean? I can't name a single identifying policy of that man. he makes goons angery
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Nov 16, 2021 12:52
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Woah what if spice extends life BY inducing limited prescience? Like the tiny amount of foresight helps avoid small household accidents and slip-and-falls thus statistically extending average lifespan like a claims adjuster.
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Nov 16, 2021 14:59
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Prescience doesn’t work unless you actively will it tho. Like the bit in Children of Dune where the girl they assign to guard Leto is like “yeah I see the future all the time, when I’m getting railed in the spice orgy. Doesn’t mean anything though, I’m just trippin lol”
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Nov 16, 2021 15:11
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Soul Dentist posted:Woah what if spice extends life BY inducing limited prescience? Like the tiny amount of foresight helps avoid small household accidents and slip-and-falls thus statistically extending average lifespan like a claims adjuster. 'oh no! i'm out of spice!' slips in bathtub, dies your idea makes more sense than Herberts 
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Nov 16, 2021 16:12
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Spice enhances lifespan by allowing limited prescience, but only related to refined sugar and saturated fats intake. It is by will alone that I do not set the doughnuts in motion towards my gullet.
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Nov 16, 2021 16:17
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ChubbyChecker posted:it's a poo poo trope
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Nov 16, 2021 16:19
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Saw it in a normal cinema. loving loved it. Even if I did have to piss twice. Felt like they could have done a better job defending Arakeen, even with the betrayal. Are the Highliners essentially just gigantic space buses?
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Nov 16, 2021 16:31
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Roblo posted:Are the Highliners essentially just gigantic space buses? I think more like gigantic space ferries, since they shuttle smaller craft, not just people.
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Nov 16, 2021 16:33
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they aren't really described in detail in the book iirc. in the Lynch movie they're like giant buses for spaceships. in the Villeneuve movie they seem to operate more like portals or gateways.
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Nov 16, 2021 16:38
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THE BAR posted:What does Bidenesque even mean?
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Nov 16, 2021 16:40
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Roblo posted:Saw it in a normal cinema. loving loved it. Even if I did have to piss twice. That makes me think Is the spacing guild open for literally anyone who pays and doesn't care one bit about their cargo, because if they're part of the emperor's power then that makes it incredibly grim&dark for the future of the other Houses since they wouldn't be able to get off world, making them easy pickings for said Emperor
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Nov 16, 2021 16:45
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uber_stoat posted:they aren't really described in detail in the book iirc. in the Lynch movie they're like giant buses for spaceships. in the Villeneuve movie they seem to operate more like portals or gateways. That's a misconception based on seeing a moon through the tube. They're still giant buses.
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Nov 16, 2021 16:46
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Greggster posted:That makes me think It's the former. The Emperor definitely does not control the Guild.
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Nov 16, 2021 16:53
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the Corrino imperium is basically something like the holy roman empire in space
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Nov 16, 2021 17:03
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Greggster posted:Is the spacing guild open for literally anyone who pays and doesn't care one bit about their cargo
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Nov 16, 2021 17:13
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Super.Jesus posted:That's a misconception based on seeing a moon through the tube. You talking out your thigh pads or you have proof of that? You suggesting one of the moons of Arrakis is ocean blue if viewed through a guild ship for some reason?
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Nov 16, 2021 17:14
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The moon was around Caladan, it could be blue! Or it could've been Kaitan or something.SubponticatePoster posted:Yes. Even the Emperor has to pay them for travel. The Baron mentions that they paid for transportation of the Sardukar for the attack on Arrakis and that it cost 80 years' worth of profits to do it. They charge an assload to transport troops, which probably helps keep down the number of wars and invasions because only the richest houses can afford it, and they most likely don't want to bankrupt their houses just so they can go have a slapfight with that Earl that insulted them at the last xmas party. Moving to Arrakis must have been hella expensive but that's a place where maybe the Emperor paid, or the Guild gave them a discount because the spice must flow.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:28
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Roblo posted:Saw it in a normal cinema. loving loved it. Even if I did have to piss twice. hopefully in your stillsuit
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Nov 16, 2021 17:41
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Denis interview where he says that lovely Feyd is for sure going to be in part 2. https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/dune-spoiler-interview-denis-villeneuve-ending-paul-dreams-and-part-two/
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Nov 16, 2021 18:10
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uber_stoat posted:Denis interview where he says that lovely Feyd is for sure going to be in part 2. Bi-lal kaifa He also weighs in on the threads current heighliners=stargates thing. tl;dr They are ships not gates, but the design is supposed to evoke a gate (as well as a worm)
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Nov 16, 2021 18:22
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I'm glad they didn't make the heighliners gates, but I think the evidence in the film is still that they are If that is just a moon around this planet and they for some reason wanted to use it to show that the ship was a tube they hosed it up imo. It would have been easy to show it's a tube by showing the moon both through and around the ship, but they didn't even though it should be visible in that shot  I really don't get what they were going for here if not "gateway"
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Nov 16, 2021 18:43
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The Bloop posted:I'm glad they didn't make the heighliners gates, but I think the evidence in the film is still that they are It's got terminus and atmospheric diffraction and isn't illuminating the barrel of the ship. It's a planet/moon and they hosed up the CG. Good catch.
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Nov 16, 2021 18:48
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Lynch dune at least showed the whole space transport system clearly. Little ships fly inside, big ship teleports, little ships leave for their destination. Very clear. Half the people I watched Dunc with had no idea what was going on and had no idea spice had anything to do with space travel.
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Nov 16, 2021 18:50
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Baronjutter posted:Lynch dune at least showed the whole space transport system clearly. Little ships fly inside, big ship teleports, little ships leave for their destination. Very clear. Half the people I watched Dunc with had no idea what was going on and had no idea spice had anything to do with space travel. I mean they did explicitly mention that spice had to do with space travel, but there was a lot of exposition so I can see how it could be missed
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Nov 16, 2021 19:04
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Just enjoy the mystery, barely anyone in the galaxy knows how they work either
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Nov 16, 2021 19:04
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There's a general tendency to not show the actual traveling, outside of genres that falls in the category of roadtrip. Mostly people just leave, there's a fade of some sort, and then they arrive. EDIT: I'm not sure I like Lynch's puke monster as a better representation of it, and unless you're going to go into the whole thing about navigators that's in the book, I'm not sure you need to show the actual traveling. I would've liked to see it, because I'm a nerd, but I'm not sure it adds to the movie in a meaningful way.
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Nov 16, 2021 19:08
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