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BRJohnson posted:In all fairness it's both though right? We all need to be willing and able to learn, teach, and change. As we all know, our leaders can't and won't save us. I'm certainly not saying come to the middle or let the right frame the issues, but we do need to try to reach them as their neighbors and family, obviously the democrats can't do it (even the few sincere leftists). Look I'm not levelling a moral judgment, I'm telling you the truth. If you refuse to challenge stolen words 'in your meat-space', you are helping fascist propagandists. I also want to point out the very hilarious juxtaposition of "willing and able to learn, teach and change" followed by "I don't want to do any work to help reclaim something now used as fascist propaganda because it might disrupt my comfortable social life". Context of the current discussion indeed. Ecuadorian dog tax, as is tradition 
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Nov 16, 2021 16:49
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DarkCrawler posted:Yeah, Turkey's economy is a basket case built on shoddy construction and government cronyism to the point that many of the people I know in Turkey say that they believe the whole coup attempt was engineered by Erdogan to distract from the economy and consolidate his position before everything goes to total poo poo. Turkey has been an economic basket case for a while and that is well-known. Their inflation rate has been around 8% (still very high) every year since 2010. But, 51% in one year is very different from where they have historically been. That is a roughly 6x increase in the average from the last 10 years and pretty wild. Fame Douglas posted:How does somebody that posts in news forums constantly not know anything about the past few years of Turkey being in a fiscal crisis. Turkey being in an economic crisis isn't new. But, a 6x increase in (already high) inflation is very new. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 16:57
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Spice World War II posted:You've been explained the facts, and your reaction was "welp, this is interesting, but the racists have already won this one". Even if that is true in your personal "meat-space" full of unthinking dicks, still leaves you the extremely easy option to not use the term like that anymore, at no cost to yourself. Your reaction however implies that you think this is another example of the uncompromising left pushing people away with unreasonable demands... Even by your uncharitable interpretation, I never pledged to keep using the word the same way or at all. skylined! posted:Look I'm not levelling a moral judgment, I'm telling you the truth. If you refuse to challenge stolen words 'in your meat-space', you are helping fascist propagandists. What the gently caress? I thanked you for the correction, and pointed out how bad things are wrt the usage of the word. We've been talking about winning people over and forming a ground up movement, the fact that the word is a huge turn off to some people is absolutely relevant and not my fault, nor have I said I'm OK with what's happened. Decon posted:You can be the change you wanna see in your meatspace. I have every intention of pointing out where "woke" came from, who demonized it, and to what ends. It's a brainworms larva and I see it working on people around me. Thank you.
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Nov 16, 2021 16:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Something seems very wrong in Turkey. Once again Erdogan pulled his trademark "let's have more accommodative monetary policy to lower inflation" move. I'll bet this becomes worse as people unwind the carry trade because of US inflation. (Or maybe this already happened?) plogo fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 16:58
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"Woke" also lends itself to "hilarious" catchphrases like, "Going woke makes you broke!!!!" when some movie offends you for some dumb reason and then lays an egg at the box office.
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Nov 16, 2021 16:59
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Turkey is a good case for why an independent central bank might be a good idea!
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Nov 16, 2021 17:00
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Is there a Rittenhouse thread somewhere?
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Nov 16, 2021 17:00
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LionArcher posted:this tracks. To be clear, I'm not preaching to them, this is just heat checks when this stuff comes up in conversation. There are mutual friends that do the classic preaching that are a huge turn off. I was going to reply to this last night. I get what you're saying. It's people perceiving and believing that identity politics have "gone too far" and the reaction/backlash to that. Part of it is from some people (everywhere on the political spectrum) misunderstanding terms and also misunderstanding what's necessary to fix systemic issues. Even though the concepts are there to identify systemic (sometimes relating individual e.g. missing stair) issues and help correct them. When they're misused and misapplied it can create problems. Problems like assigning blame to individuals for those systemic issues. Some people believe that self-flagellation is necessary and even expect or demand it of others. It's not at all necessary and it does nothing to actually solve problems. Some people do in fact use identity politics to explain away their flaws, bad behaviors and interpersonal problems that they are at least partially responsible for. Bad actors use it to burnish their reputations, gain notoriety and as a means of control. As part of that control it's used to punishment people they feel have wronged them or are getting more attention. It doesn't just create divisions, it forces the creation of out-groups when the ideas are used in this way. It's using what are good ideas and proven concepts to cloak bad deeds and even cruelty for the pursuit of popularity and power. Which is sad, because the concepts are ultimately supposed to bring people together. The issues are compounded by the fact that the right-wing purposefully adds to the confusion for culture war reasons. It's also made worse because systemic bigotry is still the much bigger problem. Gumball Gumption posted:Oh absolutely, I think we should be organizing with our neighbors and local community. Forming support groups and local groups are a great way to change people's minds and move them to the left. But I also think that all goes back to being trapped within the system and cleaning up the mess of those in charge. It's always a good idea to do this even if the system is adequate providing for people (it's not), whether you or others are complicit in it.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:03
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Gumball Gumption posted:What does that mean in actionable terms though that isn't just cleaning up messes created by those actually in charge? I agree with the idea that people within the system who benefit from it are involved in it and should push back but I also think the current rhetoric is just used to obscure who is actually responsible for the state of the world. It spreads blame onto everyone and obscures why our society is structured the way it is instead of pointing to those in charge who have the most control. It points to systemic racism as the problem and then tells you that to change that you need to change yourself instead of changing any of the systems in society. I cant speak what it means in a universally applicable sense but for me it presents in a few ways... * i volunteer with and help fund a street medic collective to ensure groups have the support they need to maintain pressure over time * i work with groups that provide wellness services for unhoused populations * i'm teaching my kids to be distinctly aware of their privilege and how as a member of this society they are partially responsible for its ills * i advocate for a new continental congress and the dissolution of the current state Then again i dont engage with twitter or anything so I have no clue what the current rhetoric is. I dont hear anything of the sort when im deployed.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:03
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skylined! posted:If you refuse to challenge stolen words 'in your meat-space', you are helping fascist propagandists. It’s a waste of time trying to compete with 24/7 right wing propaganda trying to challenge “stolen words”. Just state in simple terms what policies you are for or against and why.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:05
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Fame Douglas posted:How does somebody that posts in news forums constantly not know anything about the past few years of Turkey being in a fiscal crisis. What use is this post? How does it contribute in any way? This is the sort of poo poo that makes the thread unbearable. If lovely condescension is the entire content of a post, just don't. I keep seeing stories in the media about Biden's staff fighting with Harris. It's probably just the usual Dems in Disarray bullshit but hey, if it damages Harris I'll take it.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:07
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I think handwringing over words and symbols is dumb anyways. Its like that time a while back where the OK symbol somehow meant your a nazi lmao. Depending on the context you use the word woke I am pretty sure everyone here will understand what you mean so i don't think theres any need to worry about it needing reclamation or being surrendered to other people.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:10
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nelson posted:It’s a waste of time trying to compete with 24/7 right wing propaganda trying to challenge “stolen words”. That "waste of time" has resulted in nonstop ceding of ground in my lifetime as the far right is able to constantly dictate the conversation. Again, in the information age, words are power. The left succeeded at toxifying slurs, but it feels like, at every other turn, we've gleefully adopted the right wing outrage buzzword du jour... Even in cases where (like with woke) it oftentimes feels like it's just a slur with like one extra step. Yes, policies are important but you won't get poo poo done if every single pro-working class policy is screeched at as "woke" by moderate liberals because they have unaddressed brainworms Edit: if you awkwardly pose in a MAGA hat with a 👌 thrown up, you're a Nazi hth Decon fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 17:12
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OctaMurk posted:Its like that time a while back where the OK symbol somehow meant your a nazi lmao. It is still the case that this might indicate you are a white supremacist.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:13
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cr0y posted:Is there a Rittenhouse thread somewhere? There's a C-SPAM thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3984445&perpage=40&pagenumber=25#pti16 Linking to to the latest page because it may or may not have derailed into a slapfight over Marxist praxis over the weekend I think there's also a gbs thread if you want to read about how Rittenhouse is a little angel who made a boo-boo and all the protesters were adrenochrome-guzzling pedophiles
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Nov 16, 2021 17:14
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We are not doing a Rittenhouse thread because: 1. The trial is going poorly 2. In GBS it was an absolutely shitshow 3. Nobody started one here.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:17
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There's not a D&D thread but mostly were all on the same page as one another and the cspammers and it's the only current event that matters right now. BBb isn't going anywhere soon. gently caress "Rule of Law" as an end into itself.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:17
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:I keep seeing stories in the media about Biden's staff fighting with Harris. It's probably just the usual Dems in Disarray bullshit but hey, if it damages Harris I'll take it. Like those couple weeks last summer when there was a spate of negative stories about Harris that all came out at once, it's happening once again. This time it seemed to be set off by the CNN story ostensibly written to be sympathetic toward her, but even the fawning bits couldn't be offset by the whining/grumbling coming from her team, if not her directly. And a lot of the stories, including the CNN piece, seem to be pitting her against Buttigieg, some sort of battle royale in which they're both angling to be Daddy's Favorite Child. I guess it makes sense in context of Biden's age & abilities, and the doubt as to whether he'd choose to run for a second term that would end when he's 86, and maybe his current underwater popularity has the sharks circling, but it seems awfully early to be gaming out 2024 so I'm unsure as to why it's all happening now.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:18
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Harold Fjord posted:There's not a D&D thread but mostly were all on the same page as one another and the cspammers and it's the only current event that matters right now. BBb isn't going anywhere soon. Yeah nobody is going to call anyone out for discussing Rittenhouse in the CE thread, for sure. If someone wants to make a Rittenhouse thread, they can.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:20
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Willa Rogers posted:I guess it makes sense in context of Biden's age & abilities, and the doubt as to whether he'd choose to run for a second term that would end when he's 86, and maybe his current underwater popularity has the sharks circling, but it seems awfully early to be gaming out 2024 so I'm unsure as to why it's all happening now. There must always be content. The clicks must flow.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:27
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nelson posted:It’s a waste of time trying to compete with 24/7 right wing propaganda trying to challenge “stolen words”. This is nonsense, coward poo poo. Making it clear that you will challenge people using appropriated, coded language to hide what their racist intentions, or as a blanket scold for anything not sufficiently racist/sexist, is an incredibly basic actionable thing anyone in this thread can do. OctaMurk posted:I think handwringing over words and symbols is dumb anyways. Its like that time a while back where the OK symbol somehow meant your a nazi lmao. The OK symbol is a pretty textbook example of fascist propagandizing. The work that crypto fascists have done to shame anyone to their left for calling it out, and how quick many have been to accept that shame, has been a thing to watch. Proud Boys have made zero attempt to hide what they mean by throwing down a hand gesture that literally means 'white power', while their supporters have you convinced they don't actually mean it, it's just for laughs ok. Never believe that anti-semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies, etc. quote:Depending on the context you use the word woke I am pretty sure everyone here will understand what you mean so i don't think theres any need to worry about it needing reclamation or being surrendered to other people. James Baldwin is going to do a better job explaining this than I ever could.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:30
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OctaMurk posted:I think handwringing over words and symbols is dumb anyways. Its like that time a while back where the OK symbol somehow meant your a nazi lmao. and that it 100% has, is, and will be used as a psychological weapon against minorities in public places because of this "it's just the ok symbol, bro" cover, right? really the only reason to dismiss this fact is ignorance or maliciousness, i'm just trying to gauge which.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:31
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I'm going to say something I would not have expected to hear myself say five years ago: I get why people voted for Trump. That's not to say that I have any love for the son of a bitch; I hate his guts for August 12, 2017 alone. But the same monster that is disillusioning chuds and bringing them into the arms of a Trump is the same one disillusioning the left: Capitalism. The corrupt, rotten-from-top-to-bottom system. The difference is in how the two sides react. In general, Trumpers punch down at minorities, immigrants, LGBTQ, etc. and fall into the trap of cultural grievance. By being useless cowards and losers, the Democrats leave an opening for the culture war stuff. I remember in 2010 that one of the arguments of the tea party was that Washington/Democrats/Obama "wasn't listening". They were right! Few if any of the elites are listening to us or give two shits about us. Their wealth and power completely insulates them from the everyday life that we live. When you feel as though you're powerless and unheard, you tend to turn in desperation to whining about nothing issues like CRT and """""woke""""". It's a tantrum because you feel as though you have no traction on so-called "kitchen table issues". If the left can find a way to break through that propaganda and talk to working class voters without "jargon", I think we could find common ground on many - maybe not all - the issues we're discussing. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 17:32
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Decon posted:That "waste of time" has resulted in nonstop ceding of ground in my lifetime as the far right is able to constantly dictate the conversation. Again, in the information age, words are power. But decrying something that's coming from the left as being repetitious of, or a shibboleth for, a right-wing belief is letting the right dictate the conversation. To jump right into a polarizing example, consider straight-up Trump-talk like how the "mainstream media" lies and distorts to get the outcome it wants. In 2015 this was front and center of every pro-Trump mouthpiece. "CNN hates him, they're lying about him!" "MSNBC hates him, they're lying about him!" (disclosure: piss tape has to be real, i can't handle a world where the piss tape isn't real) and if you said "hey yea, those outlets kinda suck they always go to bat for war and for bank bailouts" the conversation was shut down with accusations of supporting Trump because Trump and his supporters were the only ones that could possibly have motivation to criticize establishment media IN THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIVES The next election cycle, Chris Matthews (?) publicly melted down about being guillotined by the red-brown alliance yellow vest stalinist-sandersist vanguard if Bernie Sanders won and many of the same types were patting themselves on the back for...seeing through the performative bullshit and emotional appeal away from a more reformative candidate. If you're saying "Democrat party" or "Let's go Brandon" you're not just, saying something stupid that upsets democrats because it upsets them and seeing your political adversaries upset is entertaining. If you said you believed Tara Reade you were written off as bitter or a right-wing operative because Tara went on Tucker once therefore anyone that believes her or reports on the story should be viewed as suspect at best because it came from the right wing so it can't be talked about. The problem with effective propaganda remains the same as it always has been: the secret ingredient of "just enough objective truth"
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Nov 16, 2021 17:32
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The futility of trying to beat out misinfo with real info had been beaten to death as a topic. It's regularly used in this very thread as an argument to ban people who say an incorrect thing. Demanding other posters do it more in their own lives, rather than letting them make their own judgement on who and who is not persuadable, seems like a new method of gatekeeping righteousness.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:32
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Decon posted:That "waste of time" has resulted in nonstop ceding of ground in my lifetime as the far right is able to constantly dictate the conversation. Again, in the information age, words are power. Words are power. The right has a well oiled and well paid propaganda network consisting of social media, radio, television, and newspapers/magazines that all focus on the basic fears of ordinary non-academic people. The left has unpaid activists shouting in the streets and on message boards and liberal arts PhDs writing for each other in academic journals. Of course the former is going to win in terms of votes, regardless of who wins in truthiness. skylined! posted:This is nonsense, coward poo poo. Making it clear that you will challenge people using appropriated, coded language to hide what their racist intentions, or as a blanket scold for anything not sufficiently racist/sexist, is an incredibly basic actionable thing anyone in this thread can do. Have you ever changed the minds of “people with racist intentions” by scolding them over word definitions? Maybe you have. But personally I don’t see it winning hearts and minds. nelson fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 17:38
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If your friends aren't terminally online and falling for "the loony left" nonsense, then they've probably been targeted by RWM talking points that have filtered down into media that most "liberal or left-leaning" people don't realize is inherently conservative. If they're terminally online and their fee fees are hurt because they saw a trans person angry about something on Tumblr or Twitter, they should practice the art of logging off. And that's as much credence as anyone should give to the idea that radical leftists have gone too far in forcing society to bend to their whims. When you see some dumb poo poo isolated incident like the Australian school thing and think it represents an alarming pattern, congrats, you're falling for right wing media framing as well.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:44
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Pobrecito posted:It’s Thanksgiving, of course Turkey prices would be high! https://twitter.com/RepStefanik/status/1459182539114000386 mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 17:45
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Who makes a 15 pound turkey? That's gargantuan. Or maybe I'm the weirdo who never had a Thanksgiving where 20 people came over for dinner?
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Nov 16, 2021 17:46
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What policies have actually even been enacted by Biden that would impact turkey prices this quickly? If I had to guess, it's just delayed impact from some Trump policy.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:51
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Crows Turn Off posted:What policies have actually even been enacted by Biden that would impact turkey prices this quickly? It’s not just turkey, chicken wing prices are loving nuts in many places right now.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:55
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mobby_6kl posted:I thought it was up only 27% thoug The increase is mostly a spillover effect of reduced production in 2020, as a lot of turkey we will eat in the coming weeks has been frozen for a year. COVID killed production in a lot of ag sectors in 2020 and we are paying the price now. The entire sector is also passing along costs associated with COVID to consumers as well - increased safety measures, on-site testing, stoppage and restart costs, etc. Much of the added cost could have been avoided, of course, with any sort of national plan to respond to an emergent pandemic as it specifically relates to food production. But don't bother talking about it when your cousin blames the rising cost of turkey on Biden and the Woke Left at the table; that'd be rude. Riptor posted:15 pounds isn't crazy. Turkeys frequently weigh up to 20 pounds. It's the most common-sized turkey purchased. skylined! fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 17:55
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Eric Cantonese posted:Who makes a 15 pound turkey? That's gargantuan. 15 pounds isn't crazy. Turkeys frequently weigh up to 20 pounds.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:56
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Riptor posted:15 pounds isn't crazy. Turkeys frequently weigh up to 20 pounds. My family Thanksgiving outings usually require only an 8 pounder. Like I said, maybe my Thanksgivings weren't super-traditional.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:57
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Professor Beetus posted:If your friends aren't terminally online and falling for "the loony left" nonsense, then they've probably been targeted by RWM talking points that have filtered down into media that most "liberal or left-leaning" people don't realize is inherently conservative. Which is why I feel the need to challenge grass touchers in my life about the terms they're using, where they heard them, where they originated, and why/how/when they're using them. It's likely they just came across it in some editorial or a comment section and it stuck and they didn't criticize the term. Lib and let die posted:But decrying something that's coming from the left as being repetitious of, or a shibboleth for, a right-wing belief is letting the right dictate the conversation. So the only winning move is to not play? Decon fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 16, 2021 |
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Nov 16, 2021 18:00
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Eric Cantonese posted:Who makes a 15 pound turkey? That's gargantuan. I like having leftovers and my relatives love to take some home as well. A 20lb turkey does this well.
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Nov 16, 2021 18:01
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The US has pretty high inflation in general, makes sense that turkeys would get more expensive. Also, Republicans ruining the economy and Democrats having to clean up the mess is a time-honored tradition.
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Nov 16, 2021 18:02
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Only thing I demand from anyone facing terminally right-wing nonsense is to challenge it or cut the person in question from their life.
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Nov 16, 2021 18:03
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Eric Cantonese posted:My family Thanksgiving outings usually require only an 8 pounder. That's fine, but 15 pounds is actually the average weight of a thanksgiving turkey in the us
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Nov 16, 2021 18:06
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odd how this "COMPARED TO LAST YEAR!!" poo poo, much like the caravans, never came up before. oh, do things suck for the poor in america? how KIND of you to finally loving notice gop, but don't worry: the next time an "r" is a president all of those concerns will go away. like a miracle.
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Nov 16, 2021 18:07
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