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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sanderson really needs an editor. I didn't feel that the first 3 books were overly long though some light trimming could have been good, but book 4 really made it clear he's become quite self-indulgent. Watching the videos and interviews that they put out around the release was really eye-opening because it showed that he doesn't actually have an editor. He has a lot of people who read his book in development and give feedback but all of them were really emphatic that they never try to remove content. He needs someone who can look at a whole chunk of of the book and say "this needs to be rewritten" or "this needs to be cut". There are so many points in book 4 that drag needlessly and do many meaningless character regressions. It's been talked about in this thread to death but of course these books focus on mental illness. And it's really impactful, different characters resonate with different people but it's great to see characters with those internal struggles since it's rare, and done so well. While seeing progress and setbacks is realistic in a sense... It's also realistic for people to make more long-term progress, where their regressions are shorter lived and more well-controlled. And more importantly just from a narrative structure it gets really old to see your favorite characters going through a loop. An editor could fix that, or at least trim it so it's less of a slog. What made book 4 worse than the rest was just how many chapters were spent on characters where no progress was made at all. How many Shallan chapters were there where she was just being repetitively paranoid (building up to a painfully obvious "twist"), or where Venli wandered around doing nothing? Way too many. The Navani chapters bored a lot of people, but at least there was some movement in them. I actually mostly enjoyed the Kaladin chapters in the book, but they also just went on way too long. I really hope he gets one for book 5, especially since it's going to be the climax of Era 1. I want it to be long, just not a slog.
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Nov 13, 2021 18:06
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I liked all of Rhythm of War
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Nov 13, 2021 18:14
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What if there was a remixed edition called Rhythm of GWAR?
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Nov 14, 2021 15:36
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Dalmuti posted:What if there was a remixed edition called Rhythm of GWAR? It would be the novelization of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus_in_Wonderland
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Nov 14, 2021 17:01
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Just cut out all of venli, half of navani, add more adolin and make dawnshard part of the book.
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Nov 15, 2021 04:51
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I think not even so much more of Adolin's plot, but it might have been interesting to see some more of Shallan's story through his eyes. RoW did not really need the page count it ended up with.
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Nov 16, 2021 02:10
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I'm a big Sanderson fan, but I think his efforts to assembly line and solve the writing process through proceduralizing everything has resulted in higher page counts done quicker, as he hoped, but at the cost of quality. I understand why he's done it. I understand why ANY genre fiction writer would want to produce as much possible, because it's almost impossible to make an impact without very regular releases, but...it feels like his writing improved all the way up to the release of Stormlight 1 and then just regressed.
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Nov 16, 2021 05:35
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His previous editor Moshe retired in 2020 iirc.
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Nov 16, 2021 06:03
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I think words of radiance was better than TwoK. Not as much of a fan of RoW. I do remember seeing brandon post somewhere that he wasn't sure if RoW was fully balanced in terms of tone / emotional beats, IIRC partially because even with test readers, in the middle of a friggin' pandemic it gets harder to judge how things land. "Is this story too dark and gloomy, or is it just that everything is already miserable?" I am glad that stormlight 5 is supposed to tie up all the major arcs, though. It seems like RoW also suffered from 'gotta set up the last book' syndrome, like Well of Asecension did.
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Nov 16, 2021 07:12
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All right, just finished RoW, so here's my dumb opinions before I forget what happened: -arrrghhh the pacing. Like 80% of the book is basically Die Hard starring Kaladin Willis. Also we really didn't need a long, boring slog through Shadesmar after the one in the last book. -The Venli stuff was overall pretty boring. I felt like the flashbacks for Kaladin/Shallan/Dalinar in the first three were interesting enough and had decent payoffs, but does anyone really care about Venli? -The Navani stuff was ok but I agree with that one guy in that my eyes glazed over when it got to the voidlight/lifelight/warlight/whatever parts. Her spending almost the entire book not interacting with anyone but Raboniel made her chapters pretty boring to read -Kaladin saying the fourth ideal was predictable but still cool -I got tired of all the contrived reasons why people can't use their powers, stormlight draining daggers, random fabrials, some bug thing that eats stormlight, the entire tower defense system conveniently getting reversed. I get that he's having trouble writing around the fact that the good guys are so powerful at this point so is trying to hamstring them, but maybe he just shouldn't have made that happen in the first place. I realized that it was getting kind of ridiculous in the third book where Shallan literally gets shot in the loving brain with a crossbow and is mildly inconvenienced at worst -I knew the pursuer was gonna get the axe at some point, but he gets killed by some guy that to my knowledge has never showed up previously? -lol at Taravangian accidentally becoming god. I'm not sure how to feel about that, but I admit it was cool when he erased a bit of Wit's memory, about time someone got the better of that smuglord -I might be forgetting something here, but did they ever mention the origin of Szeth's magic supersword or explain it? He seemed to just kind of suddenly have it out of nowhere and it seems to be the most powerful thing in the universe seeing as how it killed a god in one hit -I can't believe that rear end in a top hat Shallan actually accused my man Pattern of being a bad guy Top comedy moments: "Can't you spare those two guys? Show some mercy". "Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of the giant boulder I just crushed them with" Also Wit basically trying to bone Jasnah and getting absolutely nowhere. I thought the first three books were fine overall, but I really had to put my nose down to power through the last third of this one. At one point I must have been checking the number of remaining pages on my Kindle every 15 minutes or so.
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Nov 16, 2021 07:54
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Selane posted:-I might be forgetting something here, but did they ever mention the origin of Szeth's magic supersword or explain it? He seemed to just kind of suddenly have it out of nowhere and it seems to be the most powerful thing in the universe seeing as how it killed a god in one hit We do know that. Nalan gave it to him when he revived him at the end of Words of Radiance. Where he got it is not clear, but the Nightwatcher offered the sword to Dalinar when he visited her, As for the sword itself, I gather you haven't read Warbreaker. There's a reason why we strongly recommend reading Warbreaker before WoR, but very absolutely definitely before Oathbreaker. And most fans are in agreement that the sword is indeed the most powerful thing in the universe, apart from the gods/shards themselves.
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Nov 16, 2021 12:43
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You don't actually need to know anything abought Nightblood or read Warbreaker to understand its role in the Stormlight books. But like all Sanderson books you'll keep catching other characters from other book series pop up if you start reading them all.
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Nov 16, 2021 13:44
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M_Gargantua posted:You don't actually need to know anything abought Nightblood or read Warbreaker to understand its role in the Stormlight books. But like all Sanderson books you'll keep catching other characters from other book series pop up if you start reading them all. while this is true warbreaker is both good and free so, you know, it's an easy reccomend
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Nov 16, 2021 15:02
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Selane posted:All right, just finished RoW, so here's my dumb opinions before I forget what happened: Hardly the most important point, but I thought it was pretty clearly implied that they are boning, I mean they literally share a tent. Jasnah is just less horny than him unless she's knee deep in ancient tomes.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:39
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Yea I don't know where you're getting the idea that he "got absolutely nowhere" I can't remember examples but my takeaway from the book is that they were definitely an 
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Nov 16, 2021 20:44
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I thought they were both asexual
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Nov 16, 2021 20:48
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Sarrisan posted:
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Nov 16, 2021 21:10
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M_Gargantua posted:I thought they were both asexual She has a POV chapter where she says she's not really into the physical part of a relationship, but she liked Wit and so would sleep with him. I won't dig much deeper as I can't find the chapter and it's not a topic I'm an expert on.
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Nov 16, 2021 22:51
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Sarrisan posted:
Yeah they're definitely having sex, Jasnah is just some variety of asexual -- which hopefully everyone here understands is not the same as "doesn't have sex".
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Nov 17, 2021 01:39
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BananaNutkins posted:I'm a big Sanderson fan, but I think his efforts to assembly line and solve the writing process through proceduralizing everything has resulted in higher page counts done quicker, as he hoped, but at the cost of quality. He's pushing himself to do too much. Just my opinion but look at this: 
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Nov 17, 2021 01:55
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Lol at pat even being on that chart
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Nov 17, 2021 02:54
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External Organs posted:Lol at pat even being on that chart I love that chart just for GRRM and Rothfuss.
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Nov 17, 2021 02:57
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Now put PirateAba from The Wandering Inn on there
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Nov 17, 2021 03:29
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Spoiler tags apparently don't like to be repeated, so I deleted what I had before I feel like he's trying to reel back Jasnah. He had a scene in Oathbringer where she joined in on some council meeting, and she casually mentions that they should just kill all the Parshmen. Kaladin then understandably goes "wait, no, that's bad" and she in turn shoots him down with facts & logic, not caring about anyone's emotions. Let's not dwell on the fact that it's also not as coldly strategically brilliant as she thinks it is, as they're all stranded in the middle of a war they're basically losing against the Parshmen, so it's not like they could realistically do what she wants anyway. The book still seems to want to treat it as a "you go girl" moment though and comes off as bizarrely tone deaf. Having her actually see a battle and feel like poo poo about it in RoW is kind of nice, but they still give her a free murder pass moment. I don't know what Brandon wants out of that character. Coquito Ergo Sum fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 05:17
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The surprise ending at the end of RoW has some clever foreshadowing in the letters to Hoid included in the earlier Epigraphs. Frost's response letter to Hoid in WoR (responding to Hoid's earlier call to arms against Odium in tWoK epigraphs) quote:My path has been chosen very deliberately. Yes, I agree with everything you have said about Rayse, including the severe danger he presents. However, it seems to me that all things have been set up for a purpose, and if we—as infants—stumble through the workshop, we risk exacerbating, not preventing, a problem. Rayse is captive. He cannot leave the system he now inhabits. His destructive potential is, therefore, inhibited. Whether this was Tanavast's design or not, millennia have passed without Rayse taking the life of another of the sixteen. While I mourn for the great suffering Rayse has caused, I do not believe we could hope for a better outcome than this. He bears the weight of God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become. I suspect that he is more a force than an individual now, despite your insistence to the contrary. That force is contained, and an equilibrium reached. Whoops you replaced the old irrational rage-blinded Odium with a new brilliant Machiavellian Odium who is almost certainly about to spread misery around the greater cosmere! To be fair though, Hoid didn't actually play a huge part in bringing about that change, it was mostly Cultivation's plot. The other good line is from Oathbringer's Epigraphs from Endowment (goddess of Warbreaker's planet) and her response to Hoid. quote:"Regardless, this is not your concern. You turned your back on divinity. If Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with. And so will you." Makes you wonder just how much of the creation of Nightblood and it's movement to Roshar was planned by Endowment+Cultivation in advance.
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Nov 17, 2021 16:52
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Subvisual Haze posted:The surprise ending at the end of RoW has some clever foreshadowing in the letters to Hoid included in the earlier Epigraphs. I seem to recall another epigraph letter with Sazed where he warns Hoid to focus on the power, not the person. That might have been in RoW.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:33
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Is there a decent summation of the events of RoW's ending? I really feel like I didn't get all that I should have out of it, and I'm worried that I'm going to go into the next book confused as hell.
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Nov 18, 2021 16:52
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I like to just read the Chapter Summaries on Coppermind alongside my re-read: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Summary:Rhythm_of_War#Part_5:_Knowing_a_Home_of_Songs.2C_Called_Our_Burden
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Nov 18, 2021 16:57
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Barreft posted:He's pushing himself to do too much. Just my opinion but look at this: His poor editor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRxsLPux3xg
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Nov 18, 2021 22:08
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Barreft posted:He's pushing himself to do too much. Just my opinion but look at this: realizing that Sanderson is more prolific than Steven King was at this point in his career has shaken me to my core and Sanderson's only drug is mtg
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Nov 19, 2021 01:29
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egg tats posted:and Sanderson's only drug is mtg Giving updates on Reddit, YouTube, and his official site might also be an addiction too.
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Nov 19, 2021 13:18
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Barreft posted:He's pushing himself to do too much. Just my opinion but look at this: Is every dot a different novel or novella, even if they don't have a name tag? Jesus christ.
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Nov 19, 2021 16:59
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Barreft posted:He's pushing himself to do too much. Just my opinion but look at this: This is honestly insane when you look at it like this. I would like to see how he compares to other really prolific writers that don't do fantasy.
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Nov 20, 2021 02:39
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insider posted:This is honestly insane when you look at it like this. Stephen King isn't really a fantasy author, dark tower notwithstanding. Unless you consider horror to be a subset of fantasy.
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Nov 20, 2021 03:01
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:Stephen King isn't really a fantasy author, dark tower notwithstanding. Unless you consider horror to be a subset of fantasy. eyes of the dragon and the talisman are also fantasy books
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Nov 20, 2021 03:09
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scary ghost dog posted:eyes of the dragon and the talisman are also fantasy books Yeah, and he also wrote a sequel to the talisman. My point is he's written a handful of fantasy books but he's not a fantasy author by most definitions, so if you're looking to compare the output of a non-fantasy writer to Sanderson's output, King is a pretty good pick. Especially because he's one of the few non-fantasy-by-most-definitions authors who will occasionally pop out a thousand page doorstop of a book. Neal Stephenson is another who will do that, but then you can start making the argument that sci-fi books are fantasy books but with magic replaced with technology.
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Nov 20, 2021 04:05
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Wonder what a graph of Tom Clancy and "Tom Clancy's" would look like.
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Nov 20, 2021 05:16
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insider posted:This is honestly insane when you look at it like this. Pretty sure romance genre authors win this contest without breaking a sweat.
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Nov 20, 2021 05:28
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Sanderson's newsletter just came out, skyward #3 is released
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Nov 23, 2021 19:51
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I am an rear end in a top hat and have bought the UK versions of the skyward books because the covers are far, far superior to the US versions.  I guess it'll come here a little ways into December. See ya later thread!
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Nov 23, 2021 20:35
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