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slidebite posted:Did my first fitness test last night. It was probably one of the hardest workouts I've ever done. I love these simple routines you have to repeat a little too much, I am stealing this
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Nov 5, 2021 14:30
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slidebite posted:Being older and a color belt it might be slimmer pickings for your class/division, but I suspect you'll have guys like you in it and they're probably having the exact same thoughts you are. Is it an open tournament? Do you know how many other schools are participating? It's a fun way to meet people. TBH I'm not exactly sure what the age brackets are. In class we generally pair up with folks about our same age, but randomly draw a lot of times and I've gone against 18 year old kids that are black belt/instructors and are AMAZING martial artists and insane parkour types and then 19 year olds that are 6'4" and like freight trains, but then also folks older than I am (46) and in MUCH worst shape visibly. The only time I'm ever really nervous honestly is when I get paired up with younger women that are a lot smaller than I am. We have a few ladies that are fantastic martial artists and kick the crap out of me every time, but then a couple that tend to be a bit timid and are on the smaller side. At green we're not "supposed" to even make contact (1" counts as a point) but poo poo happens and I don't want to hurt anyone, especially a 19 year old girl. This tournament counts as "districts" which is the smallest one that we do and basically just consists of our city+surrounding smaller towns, so I *think* it's like 6 schools? I did just hear that my friend (Shotokan black belt that used to train with me until he got restationed) will be down here for USAF stuff for 8 weeks, so he'll be able to come as well; SUPER excited for that. He's a monster and always pushes me in really great ways and shows me little weird tricks that make things work. My knee being banged up means I've been missing a few classes, but have been training as much as I can at home. I'll update as this gets closer. Are pics allowed in here? Or even a good idea? I have no clue.
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Nov 5, 2021 16:00
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6-ish schools is not huge. Depending on the # of competitors, it will probably just be broken down by belt and adult/kid and gender. They might do a weight class, but I've never seen that for color belts for a smallish tourney. Usually the problem is lack of competitors. Often they'll put stripes in with the main belt. The skill sets are basically the same anyhow, it's mostly just the patterns/forms that differ if they compete for those. And yeah, younger people, and especially in shape women, can absolutely be tremendous. I've received 2 bloody noses and both times courtesy of women. Receiving a crescent kick to the face before you have a chance to react is a wake up. I think I mentioned her before but my old primary instructor is a ~50ish woman, 4th dan, fairly petite (maybe 5'4?) but in incredible physical shape and an absolute tiger and fearless. She's an absolute terminator when in the zone. I understand not wanting to hurt anyone, and of course you shouldn't. Some people, more likely females in my experience, are just not comfortable sparring. Unfortunately for them, it's an integral part of the sport. Basically, keeping in mind the rule of thumb to let the more junior belt dictate the match, you still have a job to do but you probably don't want to be all over them as that won't help with their confidence. I have a few like that too but I'll usually try to illicit an attack from them and help give them some confidence but if they're super reluctant I'll still put a few out there that aren't super aggressive. They need to work on defense if nothing else. That is something that they have to work out usually with some confidence talks from the masters. But it might not ever come  Pics in the thread? Sure why not? Here is a pic of our kids class in our satellite school last night. One of my clients is in kung-fu and asked me some questions about how we run our kids class. This was after we had them partnered up for some drills and they finished with some push ups/sit ups. Typical kids class ~30 kids. Not bad for our small town of 8000ish. We are fortunate to have an entire school gym at our disposal.
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Nov 5, 2021 20:05
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One of my BB candidate buddies blew her knee out on a bad landing when we were practising flying sidekicks last night  She was able to walk out of the club on her own power afterwards which is better than we thought was going to happen, so that's good, but if it takes her out for a month she's going to be in a tight spot.
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Nov 13, 2021 16:46
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Holy crap that sucks. Did my tournament today; did better than I thought. My son did insanely well; more details later.
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Nov 14, 2021 00:41
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Fill in the deets. How did it go? What are your thoughts for your first tournament?
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Nov 14, 2021 06:33
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Ok, so we had 4 events: forms competition, 1v1 sparring, heavy bag sparring (basically just getting as many points in 60 secs as possible) and then board breaking. I think there ended up being 7 of us in our grouping (adult men); youngest was a 19 year old active duty Navy brownbelt that's built like a freight train; oldest being a 51 year old Kiwi bluebelt that is super cool but spars a *bit* too snug for some folks' taste. I ended up taking bronze in forms competition and board breaking and probably could have done better in both but I ended up having some serious tournament nerves. For sparring (what I was most excited about) those nerves hit me HARD and I basically just fell back on BASIC poo poo; front leg round kicks and back punches and didn't shift stances nearly enough. I lost my fight 7-5, but honestly was ok that I even got points and immediately knew what I was doing wrong and saw the stuff I was a sucker for (round kick fakes into hook kicks). Impressively though, the women's division had I think twice as many competitors as we did, which I find really cool and there are a lot of really good martial artists in that group of ladies. Overall I had a blast and learned a lot about what I know and don't know and had some REALLY good conversations with both my head instructor and also instructors from a couple of different schools that gave me really good pointers on what I need to work on and also just good general info on training in your 40's. The whole process really upped my enthusiasm for training sort of made me "excited" for TKD again (if that makes sense). My son was in a group of I want to say 20-25 kids (age 7-10 green/blue belts) and took gold in forms, silver in board breaking and then lost the gold in sparring in a SUPER close 7-6 match to the son of one of my classmates. We had a really good time trash talking each other on our kids' behalf during that one! Dumb pic of us afterwards; me on the far left with way too serious face; my Shotokan blackbelt buddy next to me. 
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Nov 15, 2021 17:22
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Good for you! Nerves are absolutely a thing and you'll be your harshest critic. Reverting to something simple when sparring, especially as you get tired, is super common. I certainly did it as a green belt in my first tournament and still catch myself to this day if we're having an exceptionally grueling class that pushes my cardio. I actually saw a short vid of one of my earliest tournament matches not long ago and I cringed at it. Super basic stuff. Only way to really break that is to practice and make it habit and get rid of the jitters. We really try to drill it into muscle memory. Far better for momentum to control the match and not give them a chance to recover if you keep attacking and not give them a moment to regroup or figure out wtf is going on. We actually had a good sparring drills last night where we needed to throw at least 2 kicking techniques, and if we didn't our partner would call us on it and do push ups. Over and over again. Harder as you got tired. I'm not familiar with heavy bag in a competition. What is that exactly? Also, how do you break boards for a competition? What kind of boards do you use? We'll break boards as demo (and for tests obviously) but I'm not familiar with competing. Seems like a good way to hurt yourself by trying to keep adding "just one more" if it's in a competition. What do you mean with the kiwi guy sparring "snug?" So they put you all together? We will often combine stripes but rarely combine/skip a full belts in a competition. How is your contact in competitions? Any different than a class? We try not to do full contact in class, but in a competition it's a little more accepted it is going to happen, especially in the senior belts (red, especially black) when you have two aggressive competitors. We'll call warnings on egregious hits or control issues, but injuries or KOs may happen, usually reverse hook or crescent kicks to the head. Although, funny story, we threw one of our very talented blue belts in with the jr blackbelts (15-17) in a competition in Nashville a few years ago because he had nobody else to compete with for whatever reason. He cleaned house. The opposing young black belts were not impressed getting beaten by a blue belt lol
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Nov 16, 2021 19:40
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Thanks! Yeah, those nerves were a KILLER, but hopefully I should be a little more comfortable and confident next time. Bag sparring is a timed attack against a heavy bag; you get 60 seconds to score as many points as you can against it. If you take a look at the Wavemasters behind us in the pic, they have 3 levels of targets on them roughly corresponding to the height for thigh, torso, and head. A kick against a low target is 1 pt, middle is 2pts, head height is 3. A hand technique is only worth 1 point regardless of position, but you can only score with your back hand. There are a bunch of other caveats, like you can't hit the same target more than once in a row, you have to follow up a hand strike with a kick, can't do the same kick more than twice, etc. In that event, we just did 2 60 sec rounds and took the higher score; top 3 took medals. I was absolutely GASSED after that as a lot of other guys will just wort of graze the bag. gently caress that. I hit that thing like I'm out for blood. Probably to my detriment as far as medals and poo poo goes, but for real training I think it's the better approach. Board breaking and all the other events had us in a single elimination bracket system with a random person getting a bye due to the odd number. In board breaking they set up 4 stations and you had, I think, 14 secs to do all 4 breaks (front kick, step side kick, downward palm strike, downward elbow strike). Most breaks won, ties determined by lowest time. I f'd up a bit on my side kick breaks as I'm having trouble getting power in that step side kick. We use reusable plastic boards from UMAB; basically they're 2 piece boards with pegs that hold them together. They have multiple "levels" of these that get progressively harder to break as the pegs get longer. It's kinda dumb honestly, but we have fun with it. I do like that it essentially teaches strike accuracy (hitting the seam of the board) and then also power since you really need to train to punch past the board and not at the board itself (my son has a big problem with this on hand techniques where he pulls his strikes at the last second). Hah, "working snug" is a pro-wrestling term for "hitting really hard for real." At green we're supposed to have zero actual contact to learn control and also to not actually hurt anyone. He'll kick you straight in the ribs, which on the one hand is fine since I'm in a martial arts class, but I guess some folks have complained. He did give me a bad accidental shot to the knee when I was blocking a leg check that I thought was going to put me out, but ended up not being bad. I think the general rule for contact in tournaments is "yeah, it's going to happen" but they'll absolutely call you out and DQ you if you're intentionally hitting hard. In fact, in the black belt tournament, apparently someone got DQd for that exact reason.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:55
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Thats an interesting challenge for the heavy bag points. Not sure if we'd ever see it in a tournament, but I could see something like that in training. We do "similar" drills with kicks and punches often (even last night) and yeah, it totally gasses you even with hands. 60 seconds is a long time and with real power each time would be killer. A normal run for us in drills is ~30 seconds and its exhausting. 60 would be brutal and I don'. I presume for kicks you want to keep your leg up as long as you can? Putting it down/resetting would kill the time. I know exactly what you mean with plastic "boards" and I loathe them lol. Not sure our brand, but I think the brown is like the equiv of 2 boards and the black 3? Green 1? Or something like that? I'd rather break real wood over those any day. I actually find them harder to break and not really a great substitute as you need to hit them quite different from "real" boards.. so if you train/learn exclusively with those and move to wood you could be in trouble. With the plastic you're aiming for the center, with real wood you want to be closer to the edge. I see what you mean now with "snug" and I get it  Yeah, it does suck sparring someone who contacts either from lack of control, lack of skill, or worse, don't give a poo poo. If they are hitting hard on purpose, especially on a lower belt, we'd absolutely call that and have. It's a great way to scare people, especially new students, from sparring. I received a broken rib from a buddy when I was a green belt and he felt *terrible* - I think he was blue at the time. It was an accident though so no hard feelings. If it was on purpose (like repeatedly happened) there would be a talk I'm sure. Hell, if we kick low we get a talk. I kicked 2 different guys in the junk a week apart (basically we both kicked at the same time both times and their legs were opened when I unloaded a back kick) and I felt awful (they weren't wearing cups) and my master said "Hey, accidents happen to all of us, but if they continually happen it's not an accident anymore and there is a problem that needs to be addressed." You do not want to be that guy with a problem. slidebite fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 00:04
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Can’t we just beat up a car or smash barrels like the Street Fighter bonus stages?
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Nov 17, 2021 12:07
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That would be waaaaay cooler. I personally don't care for board breaking, but it is pretty much ubiquitous in TKD and a mandatory skill for some promotions. Presumably because it's done in Karate and a large amount of TKD is Karate based. That said, breaking lots of boards with your bare hand/foot is pretty impressive to see, especially if you have a big stack of them. If your technique is off there is a very good chance you're going to hurt yourself, either breaking toes, fingers, wrist, ulna. So the stakes are high to do it right. You really have to get past that natural reflex to hesitate and commit. But I could live without it.
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Nov 17, 2021 15:50
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slidebite posted:Thats an interesting challenge for the heavy bag points. Not sure if we'd ever see it in a tournament, but I could see something like that in training. We do "similar" drills with kicks and punches often (even last night) and yeah, it totally gasses you even with hands. 60 seconds is a long time and with real power each time would be killer. A normal run for us in drills is ~30 seconds and its exhausting. 60 would be brutal and I don'. I presume for kicks you want to keep your leg up as long as you can? Putting it down/resetting would kill the time. Actually, once you score a foot hit, you HAVE to touch that foot to the ground before you can score again. Reason being here is that bag sparring is supposed to sort of be "training wheels" for live sparring. In our normal sparring (and I think sport TKD sparring in general), when you score a point via a kick (or any technique), they immediately call a break and reset you. This is meant to simulate that instead of just chambering a round kick and staying on your base foot and spamming that same kick for 60 seconds. I'm working very hard to NOT be that guy. Monday night after class I got a lot of good compliments from more senior students about how much they like sparring and training against me because a. they think I'm getting better (I don't really see it, but if they think so, then awesome) and b. apparently they think I'm fast as poo poo and stay more mobile during rounds than most of the other students and it keeps them on guard and makes everyone up their game. I'm not sure how much truth there is to that as I'm my own worst critic, but the whole thing made me feel really good and gave me a sort of benchmark for my progression. VulgarandStupid posted:Can’t we just beat up a car or smash barrels like the Street Fighter bonus stages? You DON'T???
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Nov 17, 2021 16:54
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So we do point sparring in 2 general ways (with us at least): Either to first point (which it sounds like you are doing) and a stop/reset OR; a full timed round and the points are added.. similar to boxing or other sports. The only time you'll get a whistle to stop/reset is if there is a warning like going out of the ring, fall, hold, equipment failure, etc. Typically a judge is in each corner with a counter in each hand (blue left, red right) and at the end of the round the ref asks each judge who won and majority rules. Even in first point its a good habit with kicks to keep the leg up and do an immediate follow up or multiple follow ups. Either the first as a fake, or even if you think it pointed, do another right away to put it away and try to remove doubt from the ref. If you have a ref unsure if a point counted immediately followed by another one they'll be more likely to award it... kinda like ~something~ must have pointed there even if it didn't appear super clean.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:54
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We do that also sometimes; we call it "open sparring" and it's generally either a single round in class or as a special invitation only tournament at our Nationals or Worlds event. I'm not really sure what the criteria for that invitation is; I got one this time around but my son didn't despite him being basically 3rd overall in his group of 20+. ninjaedit: The "leg up and followthrough" thing is something I've been working on. I tend to lose my balance after 2-3 kicks (if not less) usually, so that's one of my current things I'm focusing on. Dropping 10 lbs or so would probably help out tremendously I'm sure but man that poo poo gets hard the older you get. EdsTeioh fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 18:50
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Yeah, it's often called open sparring and generally the norm with tournament sparring here. I don't recall if we did straight point the last tournament at all :/ Balance is always an issue. Not sure if you guys practice pump kicks up and down the floor as a drill (we do it often) but that helps. It's important to try and not move your head much, especially side to side... that will really impact your balance and becomes more of a problem as you get tired. When I was really suffering from my vestibular issue it was a BIG problem... and still can be on bad days but it is still improving, thankfully.. There are a few creative ways to make you aware of it and try and correct it but I suspect your instructors keep a close eye on that.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:06
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What do you mean by a "pump kick"? We probably do these, but call them something different.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:18
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Hey I'm just jumping in to say that I think that this thread's new dynamic as of the last 6 months or so is great, even if I don't have as much to contribute.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:21
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CommonShore posted:Hey I'm just jumping in to say that I think that this thread's new dynamic as of the last 6 months or so is great, even if I don't have as much to contribute. I feel like most of the last 6 months has been me talking with SlideBite about what it's like to be middle aged and starting martial arts for the first time.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:25
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Basically think of continually side kicking without putting your foot down while moving.... forward.... or backward. Can be useful in sparring if you have an aggressive opponent to keep them back or push them in a direction. Since you're on one foot you can turn pretty quickly too if they try to change direction to a side or something. Yeah, I'm sure we call the same technique different things. Apologies, I shouldn't assume people know what I'm talking about 
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Nov 17, 2021 19:27
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slidebite posted:Basically think of continually side kicking without putting your foot down while moving forward.... or backward. Can be useful in sparring if you have an aggressive opponent to keep them back or push them in a direction. NO don't apologize. When it comes to naming mismatches, I usually assume that whatever I've learned is wrong or non-standard (outside of a really specific period of Japanese MMA; I'll talk about those throws/holds all day long). I DO know the move you're talking about now and I don't think we've done it in a while. I should really add that into my home workouts though once I finish up building my practice space in the garage. For simplicity, our naming conventions for kicks come down to a number qualifier and then the technique itself, so in class, things will be called like "#1 front kick" "#2 side kick" etc. #1 refers to front or leading leg, #2 is back leg, #3 is a step with the back leg and then striking with the front leg. I'm not sure what an outsider perspective is on that convention but it makes for consistency across the age groups since I don't think they can really expect kids to learn the Korean names for these moves OR learn a simplified name and then switch to the traditional names when they get to a certain age or whatever. On the other hand, when I studied Kendo, we DID call strikes and count exclusively in Japanese, which was pretty cool and I remember every bit of that despite it being 15 years since I've even touched a shinai.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:37
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That's interesting. I've never heard of a system like that. So, for example, the 4 most basic kicks a new student will learn are: Snap kick (probably equiv of your front kick) Side kick Turning kick - Opposed to a side kick which contacts straight on forwards with the heel, this (ironically) goes more for, well, the side of the opponent with the ball of the foot... like ribs if done mid section Back kick Any of those, with the exception of the back kick, are going to be either front leg or back leg, and for drills typically called as such, potentially with a specific target area IE: High section front leg turning kick. If we do a step in, slide in, jump in, etc, it'll be clear. e: We don't learn/speak any Korean other than the names of our patterns/forms, a few commands (attention, bowing in, etc). Maybe counting to 10 and that's not mandatory. We certainly don't expect anyone to learn the names of kicks, stances, punches, blocks etc and tbh I don't think I've ever heard them. slidebite fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 20:25
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Joonbi and kyong ye are the only actual Korean we use also. Our basic kicks are front (which yes, I think is the same as your snap kick), side (pretty universal), and round and to a lesser degree, crescent. We have spin variations of those as well 100% of which I absolutely hate and suck at.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:45
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This is basically what we every hear in class: Charrot = Attention Kyonyae = Bow Joon-Bi = Ready Sei-jak = Begin Shi-yo = At Ease Go-Mon = Stop The other name for the sparring that I was trying to remember was "continuous" - Duh. Brainfart! Yeah, spinning/reverse kicks, if you don't have natural ability (which I certainly do not as a firmly middle aged dude) take a bit to get proficient in. I absolutely hated them too but they're growing on me. My biggest struggle with them is throwing a jump into them. Without the jumps I can pull them off pretty well and they're getting to high section pretty consistently now. Remembering torso position and letting your hips do the work and not forcing/muscling them makes them much more natural. Once you get that figured out, it starts getting easier.
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Nov 18, 2021 00:03
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They push a lot of “leading with the shoulder” on us for those. It helps a bit but invariably my foot weight distribution gets hosed up. It’s one of those things that’ll probably get better with repetition but it’s brutal when you repeat it over and over and then get dizzy etc.
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Nov 18, 2021 01:47
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So a couple things that helped me if you're not doing this already - remember to pivot on the ball of your foot, not your heel. Remember to re-acquire the target as soon as you can. Don't just look forwards again, look at where you're kicking. I know that sounds stupid obvious, but when you're learning a lot of people don't.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:46
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Ok, so when I keep my weight on the ball, are you almost "spinning?" Like it feels like some sort of dance move almost; sounds about right? To clarify that, I mean more like ALL of my weight should be there and the movement should be very fast? I think where I might be losing it is trying it very slowly to get the mechanics down which doesn't really give you the momentum that you need to do it correctly. I dunno. EdsTeioh fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 15:25
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Yes. It would be so much easier to see/describe in person. I know you don't have plat but email me at (i'll edit out later) and I'll try to send you some vids that can hopefully help describe and show you a bit better. e: And don't worry about height and speed as you are learning it - just get the basics down about the ball of the foot and keeping your torso position depending on the kick. The height, speed and accuracy will come later. slidebite fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 15:49
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Go ahead and edit out; I emailed you from my doughnut.ninja domain.
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Nov 18, 2021 17:22
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Sent you a fairly long rambling email. We can probably keep most of the conversation there as I don't think many of the others here have a lot of interest in TKD reverse/spinning kicks.
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Nov 18, 2021 19:45
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Why would you assume other people don't want to hear about cool spin kicks
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Nov 18, 2021 20:29
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Ya go for it. I did tkd from 5-18. Experiencing some spontaneous nostalgia skimming your posts.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:44
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Sure, that's cool guys. I just didn't want the two of us to take over the thread. If some of you are interested no problem talking here Unfortunately, as I described in my email to him, there really isn't a ton in our videos that I can see where we go over the basic mechanics/how to, we largely teach that in class. But we do have some vids which have some of the kicks incorporated into other things. With watching closely and pause you can sort of work it out. It's nothing super complicated, most people in decent shape and flexibility should be able to do them in some varying degree, it's just to spend the time and do it as they're not really something you would normally do. I sent him a couple vids from our members site (I can't really publicly share, at least without asking) but I also had a couple from another associated school that are public on youtube. They made them from COVID shutdown quarantine so it's just the instructor on his own without a partner (which is too bad) but those should be no problem to share as anyone could probably find them... and to be honest they are better resolution than the others anyhow. https://youtu.be/lfxhBIvT_HQ?t=117 https://youtu.be/A5hjMdGVD9A?t=147 These are part of the testing requirements for Blue-Red and Red-Black (and in between stripes). As I kind of mentioned in a much earlier post RE grading for rank, in addition to our patterns/forms and sparring, we also have to do these which are pre-arranged sets of moves with a partner. When you get up to red you are expected to perform these no more than 1"-2" distance from the partner.... Preferably just grazing or at least close enough you're going to feel the air. Less is better and since you're moving you have to move in step with the partner. There is nothing super fancy here, although the instructor in the vid does them very well (he is a very talented and I believe ~49 years old and a super nice guy). The reverse crescent kicks can be stacked if you are so inclined and have the ability, typically with a hop/jump between them. Those can look quite impressive when done one after another but more for a demo than anything you'd ever do in sparring.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:19
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slidebite posted:Sure, that's cool guys. I just didn't want the two of us to take over the thread. Why not? It'd just be quiet otherwise. e: also, could you email that new different vertigo PT routine?
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Nov 18, 2021 21:41
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I just sent you the new routine, sorry I meant to earlier.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:57
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CommonShore posted:Hey I'm just jumping in to say that I think that this thread's new dynamic as of the last 6 months or so is great, even if I don't have as much to contribute. EdsTeioh posted:I feel like most of the last 6 months has been me talking with SlideBite about what it's like to be middle aged and starting martial arts for the first time. Yeah, I feel it's a lot of a couple a middle aged dudes
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Nov 18, 2021 22:39
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Well cool, glad y'all are enjoying it but I STILL haven't gotten a good rec for running shoes 
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Nov 18, 2021 23:23
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Here. Good for running and even enough support for a bit of cross training
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Nov 19, 2021 00:59
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Yeah all the grapple goons are lurking this thread. Its the only martial arts discussion happening here now and we'll take what we can get.
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Nov 19, 2021 13:13
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Post some grappling; I love that poo poo! We do a grapple class on Sundays as one of our instructors also has a BB in jiu jitsu but I haven't had a chance to make it.
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Nov 19, 2021 15:25
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