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PeterWeller posted:This gets brought up as an example of liberal media's hostility towards leftists, but everyone else on that stage looked at him like the drooling moron he was, Chris Hedges told him he was being absurd, and he was fired shortly afterwards. Dude was one of the longest tenured hosts on MSNBC and basically lost his career because of that outburst. He got taken off the air for a while after that outburst, but he lost his career because he was accused of sexual harassment shortly afterwards.
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Nov 17, 2021 03:39
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PeterWeller posted:This gets brought up as an example of liberal media's hostility towards leftists, but everyone else on that stage looked at him like the drooling moron he was, Chris Hedges told him he was being absurd, and he was fired shortly afterwards. Dude was one of the longest tenured hosts on MSNBC and basically lost his career because of that outburst. Matthews wasn't fired because of that; he was fired for being a sexpest. It's good that people looked at him like he was a moron or whatever (I don't remember that, but I'll take your word for it), but it was hardly an isolated incident of MSNBC showing some pretty heavy bias during that primary. See the Mimi Rocah incident, the Liza Treyger incident, the Joy Reid's antisemitic body language expert incident, the Jason Johnson incident, etc. e: \/\/\/exactly. That's one lesson from last year that I hope we all can agree on: the mainstream media is not at all subtle about its agenda. By and large, they like the status quo, and they will defend it. \/\/\/ Majorian fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 03:41
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Yeah - I think the network found that meltdown from Matthews unacceptable, but MSNBC was savage on Bernie in the primary, and was always scrambling to prop up the next not-Bernie, be it Harris or Buttigieg or Warren. It wasn't very subtle. We would get poll results like "Biden 32, Sanders 30, Warren 28" and they would run segments about "the big race between Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden!" It was ridiculous.
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Nov 17, 2021 03:50
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Jaxyon posted:The white majority in the country is not economically anxious dullards who have been bamboozled by the southern strategy into becoming racists.
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Nov 17, 2021 03:57
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Majorian posted:the Joy Reid's antisemitic body language expert incident oh my god I forgot so much stupid poo poo that whole thing was just so depressingly cynical, the fake support for reparations was the most cynical thing I've ever seen especially now that they're pivoting to "the Bernie Bros are too woke on race"
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Nov 17, 2021 03:58
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Devor posted:If Democrats are guaranteed a win in all 50 states by explicitly campaigning "disingenuously" for a white ethno-state, I don't want them to do that campaigning. I think that when the entire political nation is speaking with one voice on a subject, you can't really un-ring the bell. That's something that gets overlooked a lot when people debate whether the ends justify the means. It's not some isolated question of abstract ethics and whether you can look yourself in the mirror afterward. It's more about how confident you are, really, that the ends won't be seriously affected by the means.
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Nov 17, 2021 04:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:He got taken off the air for a while after that outburst, but he lost his career because he was accused of sexual harassment shortly afterwards. Ahh, my bad.
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Nov 17, 2021 04:16
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VitalSigns posted:oh my god I forgot so much stupid poo poo Really does demonstrate how leftists can't win because the centrist media literally just invents new standards and new tests that literally only exist for the left, and then are never spoken of again the moment the left isn't a threat anymore.
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Nov 17, 2021 04:40
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Biden just said to a reporter live on TV that Taiwan is an independent country and they need to "make their own decisions" about how to run their country. Are you trying to goad China into invading Taiwan before christmas?? What is your aim?
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Nov 17, 2021 05:06
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Willa Rogers posted:By "these people" do you mean the book-burners cited in that tweet, or all of the 150 million people who chose to not vote for Joe Biden for president last year? I mean the book burners. Which are the people I said were nazis right before you mocked me for it. I remember that I was talking about them and not people who didn't vote for Joe Biden in 2020 because we had the conversation in the Virginia Election Thread, not a Joe Biden 2020 General Election Discussion thread, which is why I didn't bring it up. Trying to claim I said every person who didn't vote for Biden sounds a lot like HYPERBOLE to me. Maybe you shouldn't use it so much, it makes you sound unhinged.
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Nov 17, 2021 05:26
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So with revisions, it turns out 6.25 million jobs have been created/added since Biden took office, rather than the 5.6 million calculated before revisions. That's faster job growth than the first year of Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump. So we're a single jobs report off Biden passing the total job creation of Trump pre-pandemic.
Shammypants fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 05:32
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Fister Roboto posted:No one is born hating another person because of the color of their skin. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love. I don't think anyone's saying that, but there's a world of difference between not raising a child to become a racist and trying to un-racist someone who was taught to be racist growing up, lives with a racist family in a racist area, and has spent 20, 30, 40+ years regarding being a racist as a normal and good thing while ignoring/avoiding the wealth of evidence that it's not. It might technically be possible to teach them to stop being racist, but good loving luck with that - they'll fight you the entire way. Plus, you'll need to either remove them from their family/region or convert everyone else at the same time or else it's likely they'll just revert to the social norms of their group.
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Nov 17, 2021 05:39
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https://mobile.twitter.com/arindube/status/1460816100145381381 If you think the Dems are a party catering to the working class and lower-income groups this ought to be good news, not bad Lol
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Nov 17, 2021 05:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Really does demonstrate how leftists can't win because the centrist media literally just invents new standards and new tests that literally only exist for the left, and then are never spoken of again the moment the left isn't a threat anymore. Yeah watching that work so easily just killed any hope in me of better things ever happening, there's just too much trust in the media on the liberal side and while the conservatives are contemptuous of MSNBC they're even more gullibly drawn to their favorite manufactured coastal media elites like Hannity and Carlson. You had candidates throwing out stuff about reparations which they obviously didn't support or even care about beyond getting a news cycle out of their "historic support for reparations". The whole issue wasn't treated in its seriousness and complexity, because Bernie tried to discuss the ways he wanted to help oppressed communities but the media reported the shallowest framing of the issue possible: either you want to cut government checks to descendants of African slaves or you're a racist white supremacist. And there are solid critiques of the checks: unless you actually paid out the staggering amount of wealth with interest that slavery and Jim Crow exploitation generated for this country, the checks would just be a cop out. A token amount that wouldn't fix pay or housing discrimination and that capitalists and landlords would just claw back anyway by jacking up prices and rents just like they're doing now to take back our covid bucks. And from then on it would be used as an excuse for equality and white supremacy "well we cut you a check so it's even stephen did you blow it on ringtones and lobster, I guess poverty was never the white man's fault after all" etc. And of course they were very careful not to ask Biden the same question so their "Bernie is a slavery-loving racist" story wouldn't lose focus by having to run cover for him. And even after going ham on calling him and his voters racist dirtbag white leftbros, just a year later they do a 180 and say we're all shrieking SJWs scaring white voters by forcing them to apologize for slavery. And it works, most people aren't brokebrained politics nerds, they don't have time or inclination to care about this inside baseball stuff, and even people who are often still just accept those narratives, we see it right here. Do I...just repeat these paragraphs anytime someone tells me it's Bernie's fault Trump won because he was too woke/not woke enough? That would probably work as well as TMac going "well  critical race theory is a college-level sociological framework which blah blah blah"
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Nov 17, 2021 05:54
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Darkrenown posted:I don't think anyone's saying that, but there's a world of difference between not raising a child to become a racist and trying to un-racist someone who was taught to be racist growing up, lives with a racist family in a racist area, and has spent 20, 30, 40+ years regarding being a racist as a normal and good thing while ignoring/avoiding the wealth of evidence that it's not. It might technically be possible to teach them to stop being racist, but good loving luck with that - they'll fight you the entire way. Plus, you'll need to either remove them from their family/region or convert everyone else at the same time or else it's likely they'll just revert to the social norms of their group. This. I teach in Trumpland, and the kids aren't racist consciously, but they're absolutely racist unconsciously, and it could not be more clear that any effort I make to try and chance that for 90% of them gets undone as soon as they get home. I had a kid turn in a paper one year using a slur to describe arabs, and I didn't ask her why she used the word, I asked if her parents helped her write the paper, and she was bewildered that I figured it out. She didn't even know the word was a slur. Same thing with the fact that the kids constantly drop N-bombs, its either reflex for them, or they're saying it for a cheap thrill because they know its bad but the bulk of the influences in their life don't care. I found out YESTERDAY that the 7th Grade History teacher told his students multiple times over the previous year to never trust a socialist. Most of them didn't even know what a socialist was, I had to try and explain the concept in a way that wouldn't totally derail the lesson before I could even start to explain why it was a stupid thing to say. He was just saying it because he's a chud and it gave him a laugh. Half the teachers at my school are chuds, and I know for a fact only one or two of them bother to keep it in their pants. I wouldn't be shocked if they're showing Prager U videos to these kids. Its also why the "CRT/idpol/'woke,' culture wars isn't a fight Democrats and/or Leftists should be fighting," thing pisses me off. You cede that ground, you might as well give up. Material Conditions will never be enough on their own. LBJ himself said that if you tell the poorest white man he's better than the richest black man, he'll thank you for picking his pocket.
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Nov 17, 2021 05:54
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Biden just said to a reporter live on TV that Taiwan is an independent country and they need to "make their own decisions" about how to run their country. Already "clarified" that there is no change in policy and that he was not encouraging independence. https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines/status/1460819117854715904?t=wO-8OdkOrSKecxKf9oY2-Q&s=19
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Nov 17, 2021 05:59
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Fister Roboto posted:No one is born hating another person because of the color of their skin. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love. Yes, people learn white supremacism, rather than being born white supremacists. That's why white supremacists are using CRT as a rallying cry to demand that any hint of anti-racism or anti-white-supremacism be purged from school curriculums, along with any acknowledgement that systematic racism exists. They're taking an opportunity to reclaim white supremacist control over the school system to ensure that teachers won't try to get in the way of them passing their racist beliefs on to the next generation.
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Nov 17, 2021 06:16
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https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1460297812042788871 its a very bitter lol that all the memes joking about cops being psychotic murderers turn out to be just 100% factual reporting said in a joking tone  e: uh, massive CW: animal abuse for that thread on twitter 
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Nov 17, 2021 06:53
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Possible tangent (I've only read the latest page), but it was eye-opening when I realized just how much racism really does boil down to finding other people ugly, weird, and/or scary. It's not an ideology or even an opinion, it's an aversion. It's how blatant racists are able to say "I'm not racist" without any cognitive dissonance, because it's not a belief, they just really, really don't want to be around "them" and deep down are terrified of having to. Honestly it's really obvious and I kind of suspect some folks might read this and think "well, duh." I remember first learning about segregation, being astonished that pools would drain and refill all the water after black people had been in, how people could care so much about their racism and politics that they'd subject themselves to such tedium. But "because I hate it and just cannot stand it" has been an unacceptable argument for so long that only the weird twisted nonsensical justifications and reasonings ever get out. I don't think people are born racist, but there's some deep-seated psychological aspect to it akin to a phobia or fetish that might take a lifetime of conditioning and environmental factors to get over or prevent.
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Nov 17, 2021 07:35
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Sanguinia posted:Its also why the "CRT/idpol/'woke,' culture wars isn't a fight Democrats and/or Leftists should be fighting," thing pisses me off. You cede that ground, you might as well give up. Material Conditions will never be enough on their own. LBJ himself said that if you tell the poorest white man he's better than the richest black man, he'll thank you for picking his pocket. What form do you think "winning the culture/idpol wars" takes? How do you think that happens?
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Nov 17, 2021 07:50
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:Possible tangent (I've only read the latest page), but it was eye-opening when I realized just how much racism really does boil down to finding other people ugly, weird, and/or scary. It's not an ideology or even an opinion, it's an aversion. It's how blatant racists are able to say "I'm not racist" without any cognitive dissonance, because it's not a belief, they just really, really don't want to be around "them" and deep down are terrified of having to. Segregation is a key thing for maintaining and teaching racism. The Nazis had ironclad segregation laws because of what they called the 'friendly neighbourhood jew' problem, where people become more familiar with people who are different from them who they see and interact with daily, when prejudice requires maintaining ignorance and paranoia. America has accomplished this well long after the repeal of official segregation laws still in living memory, with all manner of suburban segregation, charter schools, and flat out refusing to let their kids go outside where they might interact with minorities, hence the new generation of the far right being shut-in freaks raised by unsupervised internet access.
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Nov 17, 2021 07:59
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AmiYumi posted:Jaxyon, help me out here: did I misread your post as “stop excusing and infantilizing White Supremacists”, or is the rest of the thread parsing it correctly (if assholicly)? You've mostly got it, several other people are having trouble understanding it, presumably because they read this thread through several filters of what they think people who aren't them should be saying. VitalSigns posted:Maybe it would help if you explained what you mean by saying they aren't bamboozled into being racist they "just are" racist. How do people "just be" racist what's the mechanism? I think they're taught it by people and institutions that have a vested interest in dividing us up and turning white kids into footsoldiers of capitalism and white supremacy, do you agree and if not could you tell me how you think it happens? White supremacy is cultural and larger than the US electoral political system and older and deeper seated then the GOP digging up an academic term and using it to wage culture war. "CRT panic" is utilizing what is already there, it's not tricking economically anxious whites into becoming racists. You partly understand what's going on before you, bizarrely, decide to remove all agency from these poor, economically anxious hayseeds who just can't help be caught up by the swift-talking city Klansman. White supremacy is indeed a learned behavior, but it's one that's deeply, deeply ingrained in American culture and actively propagated by the whites who believe they benefit from it and who are scared of it ending, even though in real terms they're hurt by it as well. If you go along with their white supremacy by saying CRT is bad when it's not, they're still not going to vote for your policies in favor of brown people because they're not stupid, they're racist. You're not going to bamboozle them out of 400+ years of white supremacy, it's going to take a lot more work than that. Fister Roboto posted:No one is born hating another person because of the color of their skin. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love. I agree, and it's cool that I didn't say that. But it's way easier to argue against so that might be what you heard.
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Nov 17, 2021 08:22
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Not that white supremacy isn't a crucial framework for understanding the United States, but a kind of petty-bourgeois supremacy is just as important, or nearly as important IMO. The wealthy white suburbanites this CRT poo poo is playing to are fundamental reactionaries, and this is intrinsic in their nature as a political-economic class. It's important to point out that this class is not exclusively white, hence the growing minority, at least non-black minority vote for the GOP. Also interesting to point out that much of the CRT stuff itself, at least the corporate-HR-ified version of it, is actually emanating from this class. With that in mind the culture war looks less like an inter-class or race war but an intra-class poo poo-flinging festival among and between the American petty-bourgeois You can't win this fight or transcend it by appealing to one segment of the petty-bourgeois against another, but unfortunately that's the limit of the liberal imagination icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 08:40
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A big flaming stink posted:its a very bitter lol that all the memes joking about cops being psychotic murderers turn out to be just 100% factual reporting said in a joking tone I'm confused how you've got to this point thinking people were joking.
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Nov 17, 2021 08:51
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Jaxyon posted:I agree, and it's cool that I didn't say that. But it's way easier to argue against so that might be what you heard. Could you maybe try to be a little less condescending? Especially when you're not exactly representing other people's arguments correctly either.
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Nov 17, 2021 09:12
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1460297812042788871 those were not joking memes fyi, those were people being entirely serious
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Nov 17, 2021 09:51
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Darkrenown posted:I'm confused how you've got to this point thinking people were joking. Sometimes when something is so horrible the brain rejects it and wants to believe it's a joke.
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Nov 17, 2021 10:02
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Jaxyon posted:It's really strong "if we fix class we will have fixed race so lets work on class first" white leftist vibes. Could the "leftist tent" ever be large enough to incorporate race-first political left followers AND material-first political left followers? We agree, but gatdang do you come across rough 
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Nov 17, 2021 11:02
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Cuomo is getting the millions of dollars he made of his pandemic book taken away from him.
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Nov 17, 2021 13:27
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rscott posted:Why are you conflating government owned production with socialism, unless this is some kind of irony posting to prove the point I wonder if they've heard of the Socialist Party https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America, or Eugene Debs, the most interesting presidential candidate we've ever had. Both of whom were active in the dawn of the last century.
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Nov 17, 2021 13:29
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Herstory Begins Now posted:those were not joking memes fyi, those were people being entirely serious There were definitely jokes made to convey the truth. https://twitter.com/TheHyyyype/status/1267279636767150080?s=20
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Nov 17, 2021 13:35
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Jaxyon posted:You've mostly got it, several other people are having trouble understanding it, presumably because they read this thread through several filters of what they think people who aren't them should be saying. To be fair I think at least some people responding to you were essentially saying this. Yes a large part of America is in effect racist. Some won't even deny it, but I think the fact that many don't identify as white supremacists is an important distinction (considering some people totally will and do). Yes its built deep into our history and culture, and it goes beyond just America. It still requires exposure and indoctrination into the culture and prejudices that perpetuate racism. This historic divide is also tied to and leveraged by class, and many of the reactionary voters who support this garbage (who I believe you identified as avowed white supremacists) are not even white. If we can agree on that, it's fair to say large swathes of Americans are "tricked" into racism in that they don't even consider it a value they hold. Edit I think your post generated a lot of replies because if that many Americans were that sincerely and proudly racist, it doesn't really leave an avenue forward and, well, makes you wonder what there even is to save. Robs one of the will to try eh BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 13:39
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https://twitter.com/benpershing/status/1460948169928368128 NOW Manchin will vote for it. /s
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Nov 17, 2021 13:40
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hapsurfer posted:Could the "leftist tent" ever be large enough to incorporate race-first political left followers AND material-first political left followers? We agree, but gatdang do you come across rough Traditionally has. It's about finding commonalities and actual goals. All this is just grounds for internet fighting.
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Nov 17, 2021 13:41
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Thom12255 posted:https://twitter.com/benpershing/status/1460948169928368128 Manchin still has some "concerns" but "just can't put his finger on it"
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Nov 17, 2021 13:47
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Jaxyon posted:You partly understand what's going on before you, bizarrely, decide to remove all agency from these poor, economically anxious hayseeds who just can't help be caught up by the swift-talking city Klansman. Jaxyon posted:White supremacy is indeed a learned behavior, but it's one that's deeply, deeply ingrained in American culture and actively propagated by the whites who believe they benefit from it and who are scared of it ending, even though in real terms they're hurt by it as well. What you can do, at least in the short term, is give people an alternative to white supremacy that will directly benefit them materially right now. It won't convince the diehard racists but if every Virginian were a diehard racist you wouldn't have had a democratic trifecta to defend in the first place. But McAuliffe was never going to do that, he was anointed precisely to stop any movement within the party to campaign on helping people too much because the donors wouldn't like that and because the Clinton wing are ideologically committed to the belief that government should only help people by fiddling with market incentives to get them to help themselves (but they've forgotten what they knew in Bill Clinton's time: if you aren't gonna help people you at least have to lie about it to win) So given that he wasn't going to run that kind of campaign ever, then yeah within the choices he allowed himself it probably would have been smarter to say "we aren't gonna teach CRT" which is even actually true, and at least won't piss off the people who don't get the dog whistle and don't know they're supposed to be mad little Mason learned who Rosa Parks was. At least it's better than telling all the parents they're too stupid to know what should be taught which is guaranteed to piss everyone off (even though it's obviously also true)
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Nov 17, 2021 14:09
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BRJohnson posted:To be fair I think at least some people responding to you were essentially saying this. Yes a large part of America is in effect racist. Some won't even deny it, but I think the fact that many don't identify as white supremacists is an important distinction (considering some people totally will and do). Yes its built deep into our history and culture, and it goes beyond just America. It still requires exposure and indoctrination into the culture and prejudices that perpetuate racism. This historic divide is also tied to and leveraged by class, and many of the reactionary voters who support this garbage (who I believe you identified as avowed white supremacists) are not even white. Nah, I grew up in the kind of suburb (overwhelmingly white, upper/upper-middle class) that was targeted by the CRT campaign, and I'm not gonna be caught coddling the fuckers. Long story short: they're loving racist. Actively, overtly, and tangibly. They'll absolutely froth at the mouth with rage at even the vaguest suggestion that they're racist, but closed-door racist "jokes" are their absolute favorite. They are the lock your door when a black man crosses the street in front of you, bitch and moan about your daughter's boyfriend because his skin's a shade too dark, call the cops on the black teenager(s) out for a walk style racists. They don't so much as look in the mirror without their White Moderate mask on, but that doesn't change a drat thing about their behavior. Being incapable of introspection doesn't relieve one from being responsible for the values they act on. They are racists and that is why the CRT campaign worked on them. They were not tricked into racism.
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Nov 17, 2021 14:12
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So in a small bit of interesting regional news that may or may not be useful to Southeast US goons, the BIF included funding for the expansion of I-14, from its current expanse across Texas, to Augusta, GA. It will span 1400 miles across the south, mostly east to west, providing interstate access to a slew of mid-size towns along the way. I have mixed feelings about this - obviously the infrastructure package includes a fuckton of money for roads when as a society we should be moving away from cars to prevent total ecological collapse. This is also something local to me, as the wealthiest 5-6 families in my west GA town prevented interstate expansion to my city of residence for decades because they didn't want The politics are uh, interesting, as well. Babin, an insane house rep out of West Texas has been lobbying for this for years, and it was included in the earlier house version of the bill over the summer. He also voted no on the final house vote because of course. Tex Cruz teamed with... Raphael Warnock to include the final amended version of the portion of the bill in the senate version, which is what ultimately passed. You can guess how Ted voted, even though his amendment was in the bill. 
skylined! fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 14:21
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1460297812042788871 You know what they say, the police are like a box of chocolates; they'll kill your dog
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Nov 17, 2021 14:26
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We seem to be fortifying our southern border by bigger links between bases.
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Nov 17, 2021 14:31
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