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Decon posted:Surely you have the capacity to question the prison system and the bloodthirstyness without pretending like he wasn't explicitly there as part of a violent mob intending to use violence and intimidation to halt the election. Has anyone been sentenced for this sort of stuff? it looks like attempted murder, and such, from reading your post.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:50
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right? i mean charles manson wasn't even in the same building!
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Nov 17, 2021 21:55
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DeadlyMuffin posted:40 years is insane. So's 20, frankly. Ya uh, I'm fine with the idiot with some actual psych issues getting 4 years or whatever. Ideally it'd be in a rehab facility and not a prison. The problem is that Mo Brooks, Goslar, Trump, etc aren't getting anything. They should all be minimally ousted from society, allowed to never hold power again, their wealth confiscated and forced into highway cleanup for a decade or something.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:55
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InsertPotPun posted:right? i mean charles manson wasn't even in the same building! Qanon Shaman, noted ring leader and right wing powerhouse pundit
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Nov 17, 2021 21:57
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Cow Bell posted:Asking for 40 years is just bloodthirsty. It's actually very lenient, considering that the typical punishment for insurrection and/or sedition is death
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Nov 17, 2021 21:58
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Punch a fascist, don't arrest him!
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Nov 17, 2021 21:58
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papa horny michael posted:Has anyone been sentenced for this sort of stuff? it looks like attempted murder, and such, from reading your post. Not sure. Just speaking on what I saw on various far right watch subreddits leading up to the event. The narrative before the event on the chuddosphere made it clear that they anticipated and wanted violence against various elected officials.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:58
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Decon posted:Like, come the gently caress on. He wasn't arrested for cosplaying; he was arrested because he was there in the hopes of watching Pelosi torn to shreds and Trump instated as President Forever. There was a riot, and part of the riot was a violent mob intending to kill specific people. But even that is not the same thing as a coup.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:00
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Halloween Jack posted:What was the plan to install Trump as Presidente Para La Vida by rioting at the White House? I'm not asking for anything precise here. The actual coup was happening in the background, and not depended on the capitol riot at all. But that didn't happen because Pence got cold feet. The capitol riot was just a sign of deep issues with US democracy.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:01
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Halloween Jack posted:What was the plan to install Trump as Presidente Para La Vida by rioting at the White House? I'm not asking for anything precise here. The plan included intimidating Congress enough that they would be unable to officially certify the election. They very nearly succeeded in doing this (at least derailing the process). They all wanted the election overturned and Trump certified as President- just because their plan was stupid doesn't mean it wasn't their intent.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:04
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Halloween Jack posted:What was the plan to install Trump as Presidente Para La Vida by rioting at the White House? I'm not asking for anything precise here. quote:On December 30, Bannon convinced Trump to return to the White House on January 6. At the time, Trump was in his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida. January 6 was the date set for Congress to vote on certifying the 2020 electoral victory of now-President Joe Biden.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:05
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We should have put the insurrectionists on a post and whipped them then drawn and quartered then via Abrams tanks. Seeing as the democratic party was allowed to exist after the civil war means this light punishment is par for the loving course (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 22:07
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Halloween Jack posted:What was the plan to install Trump as Presidente Para La Vida by rioting at the White House? I'm not asking for anything precise here. I'm sorry, are we still trying to pretend that this coup wasn't being plotted months in advance or something?
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Nov 17, 2021 22:08
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Trazz posted:It's actually very lenient, considering that the typical punishment for insurrection and/or sedition is death You're full of poo poo. the loving united states government posted:If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the You're literally advocating for a position more bloodthirsty then that of the United States government.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:08
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Wait I thought the liberals were the ones who didn't want us to punish fascists because "they're human beings and we don't want to stoop to their level"? Did that change? Can I no longer laugh when a Nazi gets punched?
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Nov 17, 2021 22:10
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Halloween Jack posted:What was the plan to install Trump as Presidente Para La Vida by rioting at the White House? I'm not asking for anything precise here. Yes. There was basically nonstop talk on various elements of the chuddosphere about just that. Perhaps not the "for life" part, but if they weren't on the "for life" train then they were on the "and Eric Trump 2024" train. It being an idiotic and incoherent plan doesn't change what the plan was. This is the same core crew that hing out at the Grassy Knoll twice in hopes of seeing a dead man declare Trump president. And this ignores the more insidious possibility that there were inside elements... Which it seems like there were given that various "rioters" knew where to go in the Capitol. Trazz posted:I'm sorry, are we still trying to pretend that this coup wasn't being plotted months in advance or something? Apparently. I thought it was common knowledge that you pretty much just had to go to one of their Twitter knockoffs sometime in Dec 2019 to see what they intended to do. Decon fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 22:11
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Also, maybe one branch of the government being the one that directs the resources for protection of the others may have served to highlight some more flaws with the separation of powers the US constitution outlines.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:16
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Willa Rogers posted:Timely reminder of one of my favorite cartoons: I hope you never complain about "decorum" then. Weirdly, I'm okay holding elected officials to higher standards than the regular person on the street. What Gosar did from his account was dumb. A 19 year old doing it on 4chan is probably to be expected now. There is a double standard to Representative Gosar than there is college brahs on the internet and that's okay. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 22:28
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Push El Burrito posted:Wait I thought the liberals were the ones who didn't want us to punish fascists because "they're human beings and we don't want to stoop to their level"? Did that change? We've had people actually pushing to adopt anti-CRT language in the past day or two, actually. Gumball Gumption posted:I'm a prison abolitionist so that still extends to mentally ill fascists. The dude needs help and is a danger to others but lmao if you think the American prison system will help in any way. He's getting 4 years to learn from even more violent people. I disagree with the other guy here, I am not arguing for harsher sentencing, because the US prison system is heinous and nobody deserves that. I am arguing that he shouldn't be the beneficiary of a reduced consequences due to his political views and skin color. I also don't think he's mentally ill, unless you've heard something I haven't. Fascism isn't a mental illness and it's insulting to frame it that way, if that's what you're saying. Does he have a diagnosed condition that contributed to his crime?
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Nov 17, 2021 22:28
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Cow Bell posted:You're full of poo poo. That's not true, I'm not saying that we drone strike them
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Nov 17, 2021 22:31
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Trazz posted:That's not true, I'm not saying that we drone strike them Not yet. Edit: Hell, why not start? Tell us how you really feel about those dirty insurrectionosts and how they deserve an "even harsher" sentence then 40 years? Since the common sentence for sedition is usually death in your mind, what's the minimum these people deserve? Don't hold back! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Cow Bell fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 22:33
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Jaxyon posted:Does he have a diagnosed condition that contributed to his crime? Yes and no. quote:Federal Bureau of Prisons had diagnosed Chansley with transient schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, and anxiety. But, he said, the agency did not determine that Chansley was mentally incompetent. https://www.businessinsider.com/qanon-shaman-mental-illness-diagnosis-in-plea-negotiations-report-2021-7?op=1
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Nov 17, 2021 22:34
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Cow Bell posted:Not yet. What is this bullshit, you are willing to advocate for people who want to overthrow the government but saying posters here want to literally murder people instead this is a new level of pathetic trolling.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:34
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I don't disagree with you, but the latter part seems like a good reason to provide a living wage, guaranteed housing, etc to everyone. It's much harder to complain that those people are benefiting when everyone has what they need. Capitalism causes racism, which in turn helps to bolster capitalism by keeping the working class divided against itself. Racism has been around far, far longer than Capitalism.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:36
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Please settle down with both the level of bloodthirst and the accusations against other goons in the thread.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:36
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Burning_Monk posted:Yes and no. Thanks for that. If that's legit (and not just his lawyer attempting to get sympathy for his client, who is apparently the second coming of MLK), then he should be in a facility as he's a danger to himself and others. I don't buy it, as the guy's record is just him being an obvious fascist over the last couple of years. Having said that, there are huge numbers of POC in prison who with undiagnosed and untreated mental illness and I'd rather not have the decision to get actual help be apportioned because of skin color and political views.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:39
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Fame Douglas posted:The actual coup was happening in the background, and not depended on the capitol riot at all. But that didn't happen because Pence got cold feet. The capitol riot was just a sign of deep issues with US democracy. Decon posted:It being an idiotic and incoherent plan doesn't change what the plan was. This is the same core crew that hing out at the Grassy Knoll twice in hopes of seeing a dead man declare Trump president. Push El Burrito posted:Wait I thought the liberals were the ones who didn't want us to punish fascists because "they're human beings and we don't want to stoop to their level"? Did that change? Decon posted:And this ignores the more insidious possibility that there were inside elements... Which it seems like there were given that various "rioters" knew where to go in the Capitol.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:39
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Jaxyon posted:We've had people actually pushing to adopt anti-CRT language in the past day or two, actually. I'm also not arguing that he should be. I think our justice system should be better for everyone and if you see why benefit to him going to prison in America you're wrong because that system doesn't benefit you and it doesn't benefit the people who go into it, fascist or not. Please argue with the point I make, not what you think I said. And yes, he's had a history of various mental illnesses and is obviously someone who would benefit from rehabilitative care, like the vast majority of prisoners, over prison.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:43
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Yaknow what this doesn't help whatever
Cow Bell fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 22:45
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Solkanar512 posted:Racism has been around far, far longer than Capitalism. Not really, actually. The dawn of racism as we know it coincides with the Virginia colonies, which generally also coincides with the dawn of capitalism. quote:And this ignores the more insidious possibility that there were inside elements... Which it seems like there were given that various "rioters" knew where to go in the Capitol. I'm not sure where we're at as far as definitive evidence, but indications were very strong that GOP House members helped plan the attack.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:48
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Halloween Jack posted:Okay. But I don't think you can be arrested for crimes that you imagined you were committing, while committing a different crime. Like, I remember some Twitter Maoist who trotted around campus and declared that he "decolonized" a building; he wasn't arrested for treason. By all means, prosecute the 1/6 rioters for the crimes that they actually committed outside of their Golden Corral themed mind palaces. In our current legal structure, intent does actually matter. Conspiracy to X is indeed often a crim even if the conspirators fail to launch even the first stage of their plan so long as prosecutors can prove they had the intentions and means to execute. He was charged with "knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, and with violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds". Not cosplaying. And a part of the court proceedings, I'm sure, was the nature of the event as demonstrated by how it was discussed online. Nobody was arrested for treason, but, again, pretending he was arrested for cosplaying is a poor placeholder for an argument.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:48
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Not really, actually. The dawn of racism as we know it coincides with the Virginia colonies, which generally also coincides with the dawn of capitalism. Nonwhite people were not invented after European colonization
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Nov 17, 2021 22:51
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm also not arguing that he should be. I think our justice system should be better for everyone and if you see why benefit to him going to prison in America you're wrong because that system doesn't benefit you and it doesn't benefit the people who go into it, fascist or not. Please argue with the point I make, not what you think I said. And yes, he's had a history of various mental illnesses and is obviously someone who would benefit from rehabilitative care, like the vast majority of prisoners, over prison. I asked if that was the point you were making, and it isn't, so thank you. I want him to get rehabilitative care. I want it to be because that's what done. Instead he's going to not get rehabilitative care, he's going to get a harsh prison sentence like many other people. He's going to get one less harsh, though, because his actions were fascist and the fascist judge liked his skin and fascisms. I'm mad about the judge and his treatment relative to others.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:53
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Quibbling about the QAnon Shaman seems kind of farcical when the ringleader not only hasn't even been charged but also has a decent chance of getting elected president again 3 years from now
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Nov 17, 2021 22:54
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Decon posted:In our current legal structure, intent does actually matter. Conspiracy to X is indeed often a crim even if the conspirators fail to launch even the first stage of their plan so long as prosecutors can prove they had the intentions and means to execute.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:55
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Gosar faces some sort of consequence. Wow. https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1461087011016687616?s=20 Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, and that's fine by me. I only reject the framing of the riot as a political coup. Which is a weird stance to take, given it definitionally was an attempted coup. There wasn't a lot of obvious in the open collusion or planning but Bannon, Brooks, Gosar, and Trump absolutely worked to propagandize the crowd into killing key members of congress in an attempt to stop the certification of the election and give trump more time holding onto power. It doesn't have to be successful or even well-thought out to be an attempted coup. It's pretty wild that the coup antics are being foisted upon the idiots walking around the capital and not the politicians that were very obviously stoking violence in an attempt to grab power; otherwise known as doing a coup. skylined! fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 22:55
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Dubar posted:Nonwhite people were not invented after European colonization While he worded it poorly (and afaik is wrong about the timeframe), there was definitely a shift in how race was perceived institutionally in the West that just so happened to coincide with the dawn of the transAtlantic slave trade, the Enlightenment, and (slightly earlier?) some complicated stuff in Spanish and Portuguese colonies regarding who you were theologically and legally allowed to enslave. tldr: there was a general idea that enslaving people, or at least Christians, was bad, whereupon some of the brightest luminaries amongst the rich went "well, what if black people aren't people?" Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 22:56
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Cow Bell posted:Not yet. Why are you downplaying a white-nationalist coup on my country?
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Nov 17, 2021 22:58
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Dubar posted:Nonwhite people were not invented after European colonization They were through the invention of white people. People hating people, tribes hating tribes, is all very ancient. Race and racism is a pretty new idea from the 16th and 17th century.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:59
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, and that's fine by me. I only reject the framing of the riot as a political coup. Why? There has been plenty of evidence that it was. Right up to people using violence to stop the election from being certified. They killed people to stop it. There is video.
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Nov 17, 2021 23:00
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