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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:If there was any serious abuse going on surely the wife would've pressed charges! Holy poo poo this is offensive. The Dems are not an abused spouse. They are a political party in power and control the direction of the country. Disgusting. InsertPotPun posted:you know when you ask the same question over and over without answering the obvious follow ups yourself it makes you look like you're not arguing in good faith, right? I’m sorry, what? The follows ups have been rightfully calling the Dems out for not taking it seriously either. What’s your point?
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Nov 18, 2021 06:38
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Byzantine posted:1/6 should've been the excuse to destroy the Republican party, jail or execute its leaders, seize its funding and crush its loyalists. We need a strong Republican Party.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:39
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I’m sorry, what? The follows ups have been rightfully calling the Dems out for not taking it seriously either. What’s your point? Then why are you still asking a question that several people have already answered?
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Nov 18, 2021 06:41
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J.A.B.C. posted:Then why are you still asking a question that several people have already answered? Is it an answer that everyone here agrees upon? Because I like this answer... Roadie posted:Because most of the Dems are functionally incompetent at anything that might conflict with ...but I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if everyone here agreed with it.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:43
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I think the main issue with “it was a coup! Take this seriously” is that the Democratic Party isn’t. I think I can help you resolve what looks like an inconsistency to you but isn't: you take the view that the courts have no legitimacy and should be ignored. From that standpoint you're absolutely right. Democrats have power, by how much doesn't matter if you're ignoring everything you disagree with, and so believing January 6th was a coup should result in people up against the wall. Since you don't see that, they must not *actually* think it a coup attempt. The reality is that the Democrats are hamstrung by their small majority and the courts stacked against them, and so progress towards actual punishments is achingly slow. If it helps, here's what I'm referencing for your worldview: virtualboyCOLOR posted:False. The Biden admin can ignore the court order. Who cares other than pearl clutchers and vile people who support killing the planet for personal gain. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 06:51
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DeadlyMuffin posted:The reality is that the Democrats are hamstrung by their small majority and the courts stacked against them, and so progress towards actual punishments is achingly slow. Are the courts actively blocking the Dems from writing and sending Trump and members of Congress a subpoena?
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Nov 18, 2021 06:53
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I think I can help you resolve what looks like an inconsistency to you but isn't: you take the view that the courts have no legitimacy and should be ignored. From that standpoint you're absolutely right. Democrats have power, by how much doesn't matter if you're ignoring everything you disagree with, and so believing January 6th was a coup should result in people up against the wall. Since you don't see that, they must not *actually* think it a coup attempt. I don't believe for a second that Biden allowing the Republicans a place at the table in negotiating the reconciliation/infrastructure bill is a function of their small majority. Nor do I believe that the party leadership's mantra of "we need a strong Republican Party, they are our friends and the Trump fever will break soon!" is either necessary or electorally beneficial to them.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:57
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:So why aren’t the Dems treating it as such? Because nothing Trump did was directly illegal. It's not illegal to try to convince the VP to not certify the election. I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is that the idea of throwing elections to the state legislature is not only not illegal but may well be endorsed by the Supreme Court. Conspiracy-style charges require damning evidence in this political environment, and that evidence doesn't exist. Trump is an idiot but he's smart at being a mob boss and he doesn't leave evidence around and he knows not to know too many of the details. His whole schtick is knowing how to delegate the dirty work and how to use the shortcomings of the U.S. legal system in his favor. The people who broke into the Capitol and tried to steal the ballots certainly committed crimes (and some of them are facing consequences), but the Trumps of the world are far too good at having levels of indirection to keep them safe from that stuff. The point of having the QAnon Shaman and real estate ladies there was to provide cover for the small number of people who actually had a plan. I don't know if any of the people who actually coordinated have been caught and/or punished, it's probably just the stupid ones who got busted. So this is a political problem, not a legal one. Half of Congress is either fully bought into the Big Lie, pretending to be, or someone like Krysten Sinema, who is either too stupid to realize that not killing the filibuster to allow passage of election protection laws will result in her losing her seat, or paid off enough that she doesn't care. Even CNN and the Washington Post have called it a coup attempt. If Walter Cronkite had called it that it would have meant something, but the world has changed and now half the country regards anything said by those news outlets as an absolute lie. They are going to try again in 2024 (assuming Trump doesn't win outright) and this time they will have tons of election officials who will be all for it (in 2020 almost every Republican who actually had power over election certification did the right thing). Our only hope is either that the Fortune 100 CEOs of America can threaten state legislators because a coup would be bad for business, or enough Supreme Court members don't want their legacy to be defined as enabling a coup and so put out some hardcore ruling. And when those are the champions you're depending on well, you just might be hosed.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:59
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pthighs posted:I can't find the article after a bunch of searching or I'd post a link it, but a Turkish woman wrote in The Atlantic or New Yorker or something about how this is exactly what coups are - they are stupid until all of a sudden one of them works and then that's it. This was a coup attempt full stop. They messed with the Sacred and Holy Boxes! If those boxes had been lost and if Pence completely did something opposite and if the So called “Insurrectionists” had hurt lawmakers and if if if if if …. This was frustrated people being unable to express themselves in any other way any longer. Why are so people acting like that if the Red team just camped in the Blue Teams base long enough they gain control of the entire government? Is that how the United States transition of power works now? It’s just incredibly embarrassing to see Democrats who got their sacred spaces messed with act like it’s a “Coup” because some people made t shirts ! They planned…Something!! Many Americans do not care that spoiled millionaires and elites had their offices messed up by the rabble rousers. The dirty commoners were in the royalty only spaces is why the Democrats even pretend to care about this.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:01
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Scipiotik posted:Hell the fbi probably radicalized s lot of these people. Keep pulling that thresd https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/nicolasmedinamora/did-the-fbi-transform-this-teenager-into-a-terrorist https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...?outputType=amp Hundreds more. But the FBI is still using the Strategy of Tension to make touchdowns in the sense of domestic surveillance.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:02
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I think I can help you resolve what looks like an inconsistency to you but isn't: you take the view that the courts have no legitimacy and should be ignored. From that standpoint you're absolutely right. Democrats have power, by how much doesn't matter if you're ignoring everything you disagree with, and so believing January 6th was a coup should result in people up against the wall. Since you don't see that, they must not *actually* think it a coup attempt. While this is true, the roots of the problem are in Obama being naive enough to assume that Mitch McConnell was ever going to work with him, leading to years of obstruction, especially in judicial appointments, that were largely resolved during the Trump presidency. Setting aside any other issues, I think history will consider Obama a poor president in terms of his willingness to wield the authority given him. Much as I hate to say it there may be some lesson to learn in Trump delaying legal consequences to his behavior and executive actions in seeming perpetuity. There's also some reluctance to test out "When the president does it, then it's legal" and pushing executive authority far enough that the Roberts court decides to officially rein it in once a Democrat is president.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:05
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Are the courts actively blocking the Dems from writing and sending Trump and members of Congress a subpoena? That and their incredibly slim majority in the senate, yes. Majorian posted:I don't believe for a second that Biden allowing the Republicans a place at the table in negotiating the reconciliation/infrastructure bill is a function of their small majority. I was talking about the response to the January 6th attack on the capital, but I think the reconciliation bill is a good example of Dems being hamstrung by their slim majority. If the Senate was 2/3rds Democrat I don't think it we'd be in the same situation. I do think Sinema and Manchin are providing cover, so 52/48 wouldn't cut it.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:05
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Coups are in fact illegal
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Nov 18, 2021 07:05
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Holy poo poo this is offensive. The Dems are not an abused spouse. They are a political party in power and control the direction of the country. Disgusting. What do you mean "rightfully?" Were you not trying to argue that Democrats weren't taking it seriously because it was in fact not actually worth taking seriously? Because that's what the whole "asking the question over and over" made it sound like.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:07
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DeadlyMuffin posted:That and their incredibly slim majority in the senate, yes. Evidence? Nothing required the house Dems to have a bipartisan committee. Again, the House called Hillary to the stand for Benghazi when it was under republican control. Why can’t Dems do the same? Show evidence.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:08
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DeadlyMuffin posted:That and their incredibly slim majority in the senate, yes. You're missing my point. A number of elected Republican officials aided in Jan 6. If Jan 6 were as serious a coup attempt as some in this thread are claiming, then the Democratic leadership should not continue to insist the country needs a strong Republican Party, nor should Biden keep trying to deal honestly and amicably with them. The fact that the Dems keep doing both of these things as if Jan 6 never happened, instead of, I dunno, raking the complicit Republicans over the coals, suggests to me that they're not taking Jan 6 as seriously as you are.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:13
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Peter Daou Zen posted:They messed with the Sacred and Holy Boxes! If those boxes had been lost and if Pence completely did something opposite and if the So called “Insurrectionists” had hurt lawmakers and if if if if if …. Dude, the point is not that the ballots are magical or something, he just needed something to give him a chance to gum up the works in court and/or enough of a doubt to avoid physically leaving the White House. He tried to get that thing a number of ways and, yes, was fortunately shut down. If you think it will be hard to get that thing in 2024 when tons of hard core Trumpers are overseeing and certifying the nation's elections, then go ahead and keep believing that I guess. I can't find the damned article or I would post a link but after Jan 6 a Turkish woman wrote in The Atlantic or New Yorker or something about how this is exactly what coups are. They are in reality all dumb like this, until one of them succeeds and then all of a sudden it's not dumb anymore. It's not like the movies where a team of elite operatives seize control without anyone noticing. If you think the Republican-controlled Pennsylvania state legislature won't gladly vote that Trump won the election in 2024 if the Supreme Court lets them, regardless of the actual vote count, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. vvvvv thanks! pthighs fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 07:19
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pthighs posted:I can't find the damned article or I would post a link but after Jan 6 a Turkish woman wrote in The Atlantic or New Yorker or something about how this is exactly what coups are. They are in reality all dumb like this, until one of them succeeds and then all of a sudden it's not dumb anymore. It's not like the movies where a team of elite operatives seize control without anyone noticing. If you think the Republican-controlled Pennsylvania state legislature won't gladly vote that Trump won the election in 2024 if the Supreme Court lets them, regardless of the actual vote count, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. https://twitter.com/ukigoni/status/1346926493952319489 https://twitter.com/ukigoni/status/1346967655874519042 virtualboyCOLOR posted:Are the courts actively blocking the Dems from writing and sending Trump and members of Congress a subpoena? virtualboyCOLOR posted:Evidence? InsertPotPun fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 07:30
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Evidence? My evidence that the Democrats want to go after Trump for January 6th but are prevented in doing so by their lack of numbers in Congress is that Trump was impeached over it and the charges were dismissed because almost every Republican voted against conviction. The number of seats Dems hold has increased since then, but not enough to make that kind of difference. I believe that the slim majority the Democrats have in Congress prevents them from moving as fast or as hard as they should in investigating in committee. That's my assumption, and I freely admit it's an assumption. You've asked about members of Congress and the former president, and gave Hillary Clinton as an example, but she was neither of those things at the time of the Benghazi committee. It also did not result in any finding of wrongdoing on her part, if I recall correctly, and certainly no referral for prosecution or even censor, so from that point of view wasn't terribly successful. Of course that doesn't matter since it's purpose was political theater and it succeeded wildly at that. I think we're talking about actual investigation vs. theater though. Anyway, if you're looking for evidence that Democrats are hamstrung in going after Trump for January 6th, you have it. Majorian posted:You're missing my point. A number of elected Republican officials aided in Jan 6. If Jan 6 were as serious a coup attempt as some in this thread are claiming, then the Democratic leadership should not continue to insist the country needs a strong Republican Party, nor should Biden keep trying to deal honestly and amicably with them. I think the fact that the Republican party has 50 Senate seats limits Democrats ability to tell them to go gently caress themselves. I think the "strong Republican party" language is part decorum poisoning and part trying to give voters on the fence the excuse of "those guys have gone crazy and aren't real Republicans anymore" and get them to support Democratic initiatives. The latter seems to work at least a little, based on what I've seen from more conservative family members DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 07:34
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Peter Daou Zen posted:They messed with the Sacred and Holy Boxes! If those boxes had been lost and if Pence completely did something opposite and if the So called “Insurrectionists” had hurt lawmakers and if if if if if …. It's all just frustration and economic anxiety, nothing more, fortunately, or someone might regret their new alliance!
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Nov 18, 2021 07:47
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I just personally have a real hard time getting worked up about January 6th since the Brooks Brothers riot was a coup that was actually successful 20 years ago and nobody got in trouble and it didn't hinder the function of the government at all. Most people don't even know it happened What it did not have, however, was the upsetting imagery
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Nov 18, 2021 07:50
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InsertPotPun posted:look we voted for that. or against that. either way there was a poll right? It makes perfect sense if you assume that they didn't actually expect to get in. They seemingly didn't know the Capitol Police were just gonna open the barricades and let them in. More likely, they just expected to push against the barricades for a while while waving their signs, get into scuffles with the cops, and go home with a few bruises and suitable martyrdom stories to go with them. On the subject of criminal charges for the 1/6 events, I have a pretty novel idea: find the people who verifiably committed violent acts or had armed themselves for the clear purpose of doing so, gather evidence proving they did it, and then charge them with crimes appropriate to the level of violence they engaged in or planned to engage in. Meanwhile, charge the nonviolent ones with smaller, nonviolent crimes, appropriate to the actual crimes they personally committed. It's absurd to use a doctrine of collective responsibility or accusations of conspiracy to demand decades-long jail sentences for people who basically just followed the crowd and took selfies in restricted areas.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:50
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I think the fact that the Republican party has 50 Senate seats limits Democrats ability to tell them to go gently caress themselves. I don't see how. It may keep them from being able to prosecute Republican members of Congress, or get them kicked out, but it shouldn't keep them from saying, "Congressmen A, B, and C aided and abetted in the Jan 6 attack on us, the very people in this room with me as I speak, and we have proof in these emails. They should be kicked out of Congress and/or prosecuted for the very real crime of aiding and abetting in a coup." It certainly doesn't force Democratic leaders like Biden to allow Republicans a place at the table in negotiating major initiatives. So again, it seems to me like the Dems are only treating Jan 6 as a genuinely dangerous coup attempt on certain occasions. The resulting message is a muddle: Dem leader: Jan 6 was an attack on our democracy! We need to treat it with the utmost seriousness and make sure this never happens again! Reporter: Okay so what are you going to do about it? Dem leader: I'm going to glare very sternly at the Republicans in Congress and tell them that they need to mend their ways! That fever had better be close to breaking, I tell you. But yes, to answer your next question, we will readily take their input on every piece of legislation going forward and will be willing to meet them halfway before any negotiations start. We need a strong Republican Party! quote:I think the "strong Republican party" language is part decorum poisoning and part trying to give voters on the fence the excuse of "those guys have gone crazy and aren't real Republicans anymore" and get them to support Democratic initiatives. The latter seems to work at least a little, based on what I've seen from more conservative family members It's not going to work quickly enough to overcome things like redistricting, nor does it have a snowball's chance in hell of altering the way Republicans in government behave. It's an unbelievably idiotic strategy that the Dem leadership needs to abandon.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:59
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Main Paineframe posted:It makes perfect sense if you assume that they didn't actually expect to get in. I didn't think shooting someone would actually kill them, so I can be taken seriously as a murderer.
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Nov 18, 2021 08:00
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Roadie posted:Because most of the Dems are functionally incompetent at anything that might conflict with It really is this. The Dems genuinely cannot acknowledge or react to the reality that this was an attempted coup against them, using lethal force and willing to specifically execute Democratic politicians and Republicans seen as insufficiently fanatical. In their worldview, this kind of thing doesn't happen, and therefore it must not have happened, and the rioters and insurrectionists are just overexcited children who need to sit down- while of course, BLM protestors are dangerous fanatics who need to be put down and Defund the Police is losing them elections. So much makes sense when you realise the establishment people literally cannot process the reality in front of them. You can see it happen in real time, you see it in this very thread, just full on 'It doesn't look like anything to me'.
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Nov 18, 2021 08:04
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Bottom Liner posted:I didn't think shooting someone would actually kill them, so I can be taken seriously as a murderer. Who got shot? As far as I know, the only person who shot someone that day was a Capitol Police officer.
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Nov 18, 2021 08:06
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On the day of Jan 6 I was laughing. I thought it was funny. Look at these dummies acting like a bunch of tourists taking selfies. This is their precious Day Of The Rope, a wine-mom tour where the jackboots dare not step past the rotunda's velvet rope? I was a fool to ever fear these doofuses. I was in denial. This thread smartened me up at what I was really looking at. Now some of the very same people I posted with that day are minimizing what they saw with their own eyes to make rhetorical points about how bad the Democrats are. Its loving shocking. I cannot believe what this place is becoming.
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Nov 18, 2021 08:25
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Sanguinia posted:On the day of Jan 6 I was laughing. I thought it was funny. Look at these dummies acting like a bunch of tourists taking selfies. This is their precious Day Of The Rope, a wine-mom tour where the jackboots dare not step past the rotunda's velvet rope? I was a fool to ever fear these doofuses. Have you considered that your initial reaction could have been more accurate, and that rather than smartening you up, this thread has simply preyed on your anxiety
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Nov 18, 2021 08:30
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Sanguinia posted:On the day of Jan 6 I was laughing. I thought it was funny. Look at these dummies acting like a bunch of tourists taking selfies. This is their precious Day Of The Rope, a wine-mom tour where the jackboots dare not step past the rotunda's velvet rope? I was a fool to ever fear these doofuses. Thank you. I'm feeling the same sentiment and you've captured it perfectly.
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Nov 18, 2021 08:32
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Sanguinia posted:On the day of Jan 6 I was laughing. I thought it was funny. Look at these dummies acting like a bunch of tourists taking selfies. This is their precious Day Of The Rope, a wine-mom tour where the jackboots dare not step past the rotunda's velvet rope? I was a fool to ever fear these doofuses. People posting on a dead online comedy forum aren't the ones failing to rake the Republicans over the coals for aiding and abetting the Jan 6 riot when they have the ability and a megaphone large enough to do so. That would be the leadership and most of the elected officials of the Democratic Party. You do not need to keep defending the people in power who have continually and consistently failed to protect you and the people you care about. e: really the only person I can see ITT actually minimizing Jan 6 is Peter Daou Zen, and you can probably ignore them. Most of CSPAM already does. Everyone else here is simply flummoxed at how eager the Dems are to treat the party that directly stoked, aided, and abetted the violence with the softest of kid gloves. Majorian fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 08:35
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Main Paineframe posted:Who got shot? As far as I know, the only person who shot someone that day was a Capitol Police officer. I would like to clarify that my earlier post about "Nobel Prize in attempted chemistry" was a reference by analogy to a Simpsons episode, and I was not claiming that there was anything particularly novel about the pipe bombs found on 1/6.
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Nov 18, 2021 08:37
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Majorian posted:
Nobody needs to defend the rioters themselves either, and yet its happening on this very page. Peter Daou Zen posted:This was frustrated people being unable to express themselves in any other way any longer. TheIncredulousHulk posted:Have you considered that your initial reaction could have been more accurate, and that rather than smartening you up, this thread has simply preyed on your anxiety I'm not defending the Democrats, the Democrats can gently caress off. I'm aghast at the people that I actually trust, you guys in this thread, who've taught me more about politics and the reality of American life and the state of the world than I ever learned anywhere else. I'm stunned that people who helped me get through the Trump years with my sanity intact and a better person to boot are now making excuses for people who want us all against a wall. I'm not happy that the Democrats didn't start putting people like Gosar in prison for the treason they committed. I'm even more unhappy that people who I expect to ALSO know Gosar deserves to be in prison for treason are saying gaslighting poo poo like "Well, if the Democrats don't take it seriously, I guess it must not have been that serious!" You may be saying "this is how it comes across," Major, but other people are just saying it, so either they're trolling or they really think that poo poo. Either way its loving disgusting that it's happening in here.
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Nov 18, 2021 08:49
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Sanguinia posted:other people are just saying it, so either they're trolling or they really think that poo poo. Either way its loving disgusting that it's happening in here. Bro you literally said you held this opinion yourself based on your own ability to evaluate reality until you were talked out of it by the wise posters of USPol and they awakened you to the true horror of 1/6. Is it disgusting to find them less persuasive than you do or what? Do I have to believe the person who was like "they should have all been killed immediately before they could initiate nuclear holocaust" or I'm trolling?
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Nov 18, 2021 08:58
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Main Paineframe posted:Who got shot? As far as I know, the only person who shot someone that day was a Capitol Police officer. Whoosh
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Nov 18, 2021 09:09
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Sanguinia posted:Nobody needs to defend the rioters themselves either, and yet its happening on this very page. Again, I’m only seeing one outlier poster who is making excuses for the rioters. The rest of us are saying that the Dems aren’t taking to task the people with any real power who were involved in Jan 6. The bovine dipshits who made up the majority of people there on that day were and are lovely reactionaries, but that doesn’t mean it’s wise or helpful to lump them all in with the smaller group of people who had an actual plan for a coup. Again, as folks here on all sides of this debate have pointed out, there were countless groups there who did not all share the same agenda. Couching Jan 6 as a coup attempt by a particularly large, faceless, unified mob of chuds only serves to obscure who was the most responsible for it, and how the party in power can act against them. Nancy Pelosi isn’t interested in holding her Republican colleagues accountable for their involvement. Neither is Joe Biden. They have the power to at least kick up a storm over this. So far they haven’t utilized it in any meaningful way. Instead, they have largely treated elected Republicans as old friends who are just going through a rough phase. They're perfectly happy to keep treating Jan 6 as the work of a big, faceless, unified mob, because it absolves them of any responsibility they have to treat Republicans in office like conspirators caught red-handed in a coup attempt. e: and I'm not just talking about people like Gosar or Mo Brooks, btw. I'm talking about the GOP as a whole. The fact that Biden, Pelosi, et al, haven't completely shut out the Republicans from every negotiating session possible since Jan 6 shows how fundamentally unserious they are about this. When you're in power (even barely, as the Democrats are), you don't make accusations of coup attempts, and then only take things part of the way after that. You either publicly and loudly excoriate their party and everyone they've ever been even tangentially involved in, and shut them out of the halls of power for as long as you can - or you don't make those accusations in the first place. Trying to just go halfway, as the Dems have thus far, makes you look weak and makes your case look cynical and insincere. Majorian fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 09:23
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Majorian posted:Again, I’m only seeing one outlier poster who is making excuses for the rioters. The rest of us are saying that the Dems aren’t taking to task the people with any real power who were involved in Jan 6. I honestly think you are mistaken. In particular I absolutely believe the "why aren't the democrats taking this seriously" talking point being raised repeatedly is a rhetorical question meaning "it's just political theater not actually worth taking seriously." I'm open to being corrected on this but it mimics bad-faith conspiracy theorist-style "debate" language so much I'll need an explicit denial from op before I buy it.
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Nov 18, 2021 10:31
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:I honestly think you are mistaken. In particular I absolutely believe the "why aren't the democrats taking this seriously" talking point being raised repeatedly is a rhetorical question meaning "it's just political theater not actually worth taking seriously." I just explained in detail how the Democrats in power aren’t taking Jan 6 seriously though. It’s demonstrable fact that they haven’t done everything in their power to hold their Republican colleagues accountable for it. So I’m not seeing where the bad faith is. Meanwhile, you compared folks pointing the Democrats failing to act to blaming a domestic abuse survivor - and you have the gall to accuse others of bad faith?
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Nov 18, 2021 10:40
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At the risk of putting words in peoples' mouths, the riots probably sparked more fear in leftists than most that we have begun the descent into Weimar America. I would think most take it very seriously that the president launched a profoundly incompetent conspiracy to seize the presidency by force, because a conspiracy is a conspiracy and Hitler was no more competent than our current lot of far-right ghouls, perhaps even less so. The problem for many here is that congressional Democrats and the president are simply not responding to the gravity of the moment in the way they'd hope, although what greater action they could take remains mostly unspecified ITT because everyone has a different idea of what should or could be done. At the moment Republicans appear poised to recapture the House and Senate and are comfortable with violating absolutely any "norm" to maintain or achieve power, and the question "Why don't Democrats just do that" has a lot of different answers.
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Nov 18, 2021 10:50
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pthighs posted:Because nothing Trump did was directly illegal. It's not illegal to try to convince the VP to not certify the election. I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is that the idea of throwing elections to the state legislature is not only not illegal but may well be endorsed by the Supreme Court. Conspiracy-style charges require damning evidence in this political environment, and that evidence doesn't exist. Trump is an idiot but he's smart at being a mob boss and he doesn't leave evidence around and he knows not to know too many of the details. His whole schtick is knowing how to delegate the dirty work and how to use the shortcomings of the U.S. legal system in his favor. Ok so there is no actual evidence of any coup attempt or conspiracy and you are so sure of this that there is no point even looking, is that right? So what's the problem then if there's no evidence 1/6 was anything other than some rowdy tourists blowing off some steam? VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 11:01
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Majorian posted:I just explained in detail how the Democrats in power aren’t taking Jan 6 seriously though. It’s demonstrable fact that they haven’t done everything in their power to hold their Republican colleagues accountable for it. I agree. We are on the same side on this. I believe there are more people arguing that Jan 6 is not, in fact, worth taking seriously than you seem to realize, using virtualboyColor's repeated "why aren't they taking this seriously" as an example. That reads to me as a rhetorical question meaning "it is not actually worth taking seriously." Majorian posted:Meanwhile, you compared folks pointing the Democrats failing to act to blaming a domestic abuse survivor - and you have the gall to accuse others of bad faith? That comment was indeed in bad taste, I apologize.
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Nov 18, 2021 11:02
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