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Bugsy posted:The John Deere strike ended last night. That Deere strike is the best news in years for labor: it seems like the company utterly caved Here's hoping for more active labor movements going into 2022: they are sorely needed right now
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Nov 18, 2021 20:44
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Trazz posted:Conservatives do not support these things, lol So what if they only support it for themselves? If you think the outcome of leftists and libertarians allying to pull out of foreign wars is...only the white christian soldiers coming home I...don't know that we even share a common baseline reality.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:46
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TulliusCicero posted:That Deere strike is the best news in years for labor: it seems like the company utterly caved
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Nov 18, 2021 20:48
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Lib and let die posted:And on whose authority are you speaking for literally every republican and right-leaning independent? Do you have some sort of official documentation? You're doing an awful lot of generalizing here, so I presume there's some sort of official missive you're carrying that identifies you as an arbiter of What The Other Guys Believe? Notice how they're never actually calling to cut the defense apparatus, even though they're happy to see cuts for everything else? They like the weapons, the death, they just don't like the humiliation and losing. I've interacted with them, too. I live in West Virginia, even when it wasn't a deep red state, these were pretty common beliefs.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:50
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https://twitter.com/NCPolicyWatch/status/1461395058746343439 this sucks, this is my rep
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Nov 18, 2021 20:52
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jet sanchEz posted:So happy to hear this! Sorry I'm a little late to this, but the political pressure was just too great. People who follow Oklahoma politics "know" that Stitt is gunning to be Trump's VP in '24, and needs to tick all the MAGA death cult boxes to get that. That's why Stitt intended to execute Jones. But in the last week or so even some state GOP officials started coming out saying that Jones' sentence needed to be commuted, and this morning the Oklahoman (the largest statewide newspaper) had their entire front page devoted to an editorial asking Stitt to do the right thing, which is telling as the Oklahoman is (surprise!) notoriously right-wing. Stitt had to balance his political ambitions (murder Jones) with the political realities of now (grant clemency). He split the difference by commuting to LWOP, despite the fact the pardon and parole board--most of which he appointed--said to give life with a chance of parole.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:54
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Panzeh posted:Notice how they're never actually calling to cut the defense apparatus, even though they're happy to see cuts for everything else? They like the weapons, the death, they just don't like the humiliation and losing. I've interacted with them, too. I live in West Virginia, even when it wasn't a deep red state, these were pretty common beliefs. So...no official documentation that SomethingAwful Forums poster Panzeh's general declarations of what other people actually believe, proving every conversation with every conservative I've ever engaged with was based upon them lying? Cool, your generalizations will be given the appropriate weight in my actions in the future!
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Nov 18, 2021 21:00
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Lib and let die posted:So...no official documentation that SomethingAwful Forums poster Panzeh's general declarations of what other people actually believe, proving every conversation with every conservative I've ever engaged with was based upon them lying? Seems like you're uninterested in analyzing the belief systems of others, instead you just assume everyone is basically you but they're secretly tricked instead of people with their own genuine belief system. Are my conversations with conservatives invalid, too? Or does that only go one way?
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Nov 18, 2021 21:07
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I want to recognize everybody's anger but seriously, if half of America is literal nazi white supremacists (one position in this argument) are we blackpilling and accepting that we must fall? Do we realize the implications? If your solution is to "get rid of them (again literally all republican voters)" please confirm by not posting an alternative. What is the utter uncompromising uncommunicative division of our populace going to accomplish? We're running out of time. Edit maybe I'm just talking to (and past) the most extreme people here and thus achieving nothing. I just really need to see a chance for change. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 21:09
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Panzeh posted:Seems like you're uninterested in analyzing the belief systems of others, instead you just assume everyone is basically you but they're secretly tricked instead of people with their own genuine belief system. This doesn't work both ways, actually. I didn't make the broad assurance that conservatives support any one idea that's left-overlapping - just some of the ones I've spoken with. You've indicated that the conversations I've had are some sort of false flag because "they" actually believe whatever you claim because you've declared it an inseparable part of the conservative identity. It's incredible to me that statements like about "x isn't a monolith!" get thrown around as blanket defenses of the failings of capital or liberalism or any given social demographic's pattern of voting against its best interests (hello white Republicans) except when it comes to the right wing. There's no common ground to be had with them and they all came off the same assembly line. Think different, do ya? Why do you love the Nazis so much huh?????
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Nov 18, 2021 21:17
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BRJohnson posted:I want to recognize everybody's anger but seriously, if half of America is literal nazi white supremacists (one position in this argument) are we blackpilling and accepting that we must fall? Do we realize the implications? If your solution is to "get rid of them (again literally all republican voters)" please confirm by not posting an alternative. Is that one position in this argument? quote:What is the utter uncompromising uncommunicative division of our populace going to accomplish? We're running out of time. I don't think that's what this is about. Maybe engage with actual posts instead of addressing a vague generalization?
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Nov 18, 2021 21:19
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Mods please turn Even Slower Mode on ITT; maybe one a day, or something? [Edit: probe for edits, too]
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Nov 18, 2021 21:22
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VideoGameVet posted:As a former CMO who ran FB campaigns, the Russian Facebook campaign is a textbook example of how to leverage small money into a huge number of impressions. The thing about this is that a lot of posters here dismiss what the Russians did as having no influence on anything because how could anyone possibly be influenced by this. Then you realize we have an entire thread dedicated to not just Idiots on Social Media, but also a thread dedicated to "FW:Fw:FW" emails from your conservative relatives. And a thread dedicated to QAnon and the people that buy into it. And a thread dedicated to Right Wing Media itself as a discussion of how it influences opinion and spreads propaganda. But no, those Facebook ads and other social media active measures couldn't possibly have influenced the election in 2016 any.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:23
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HonorableTB posted:The thing about this is that a lot of posters here dismiss what the Russians did as having no influence on anything because how could anyone possibly be influenced by this. Then you realize we have an entire thread dedicated to not just Idiots on Social Media, but also a thread dedicated to "FW:Fw:FW" emails from your conservative relatives. And a thread dedicated to QAnon and the people that buy into it. And a thread dedicated to Right Wing Media itself as a discussion of how it influences opinion and spreads propaganda. Several hundred people were out in Dallas singing "God bless the USA" because they genuinely believed a dead president would appear and declare Trump president. But surely that's just an Isolated Incident and in no way a part of a broader pattern nor is it the top of some proverbial iceberg. Just a few sillyheads is all. Don't think further about where they got their beliefs or who has similar ones and where they got theirs.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:26
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God , if only Russia hadn’t bought those Facebook ads , Hillary would have won . . What’s next , a post about how Jill Stein is a “Russian asset”? (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 18, 2021 21:28
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You assholes didn't Pokemon GO to the polls.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:30
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"Uh oh people aren't fitting into the caricature I use for people I disagree with, better mention 2016 and see if I can reset"
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Nov 18, 2021 21:32
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Lib and let die posted:So what if they only support it for themselves?
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Nov 18, 2021 21:32
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Peter Daou Zen posted:God , if only Russia hadn’t bought those Facebook ads , Hillary would have won . . If it isn't the sole cause of everything (which, by the way, is always that those drat progressives didn't just shut the gently caress up and let us bully some minorities), then don't you dare talk about it!
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Nov 18, 2021 21:39
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The only people more obsessed with Hillary Clinton than Hillary Clinton are the people that REALLY hate Hilary Clinton; jesus christ we get it already: she was a uniquely terrible candidate and there is evidence of interference: it's actually possible For Two (hell sometimes more!) conditions to be happening at once! It's amazing how Trump's own Intelligence Agencies came out and said "yeah the Russians were involved we just don't know how much", we've seen clear evidence of Russian state Bot farms, but the "No True Leftist" dipshits want to continue quoting Greenwald because...it owns the libs to come off as a reactionary moron I guess?  Idk And yeah no: fascists/ nationalists don't vote for policies that benefit outgroups: that's kinda the point of the extreme xenophobia and tribalism. You aren't winning the racists over by offering them socialism, because to them it would benefit brown people more. You expand your own base and do things of actual consquence: not restart student loans in a loving Great Resignation and push the business seminar class of some corporate grifter clown, because it lets you Do a Capitalism while claiming to be not racist.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:44
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Jaxyon posted:Is that one position in this argument? I'm phone posting and not completely frothing, so you'll forgive me if I don't quote "republicans voters are all literally nazis/fascists/white supremacists" (or are you just reaffirming?) If engaging on any level with such people is wrong, and they are here and get to vote, than we're going to have to fascist even harder than them is all that is left to us.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:46
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Fancy Pelosi was a less obvious troll than this, and they got called out on their first page. Y’all, stop it. At least reply to the trolls that can generate a discussion for the lurkers. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 18, 2021 21:47
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BRJohnson posted:I'm phone posting and not completely frothing, so you'll forgive me if I don't quote "republicans voters are all literally nazis/fascists/white supremacists" (or are you just reaffirming?) If engaging on any level with such people is wrong, and they are here and get to vote, than we're going to have to fascist eveb harder than them. I'm saying you're not quoting them because that's not a common argument here and there aren't posters you can quote saying that except for maybe one person. I don't doubt that is what you think people are saying, and I don't doubt there's 1 person in the thread saying it. But that doesn't really make it a relevant argument.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:49
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HonorableTB posted:"Yeah but they aren't literally the Gestapo yet" isn't a valid defense of the situation My thesis is that changing policies to allow for an authoritarian crackdown on Jan 06 assholes is a bad idea, because it would make the police more towards Gestapo. Edit: not that the execution of Jan 06 was good - it was bad! But some on this thread are like 'you're not taking the fascists seriously unless you get a little fasc' and that's dumb as hell. Sarcastr0 fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 21:50
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TipTow posted:Sorry I'm a little late to this, but the political pressure was just too great. Failing that, he'd love to get his greasy mitts on Jim Inhofe's Senate seat.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:54
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Honestly what we do need is an FCC enforced crackdown on disinformation that causes riots/ attempted coups/ whatever the gently caress people want to get pedantic about calling an armed group in the nation's capitol, like how Alex Jones seems like he's being sued into oblivion by the Sandy Hook parents. Trump and his flunkies should be sued in court by every person/ person's family that was killed/ hurt in the madness he caused. Some places and people seem too far gone to pull out of the right wing/ qanon rabbithole though, and it's just really sad at this point 
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Nov 18, 2021 21:58
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Trazz posted:So they won't vote for it if it benefits people in their outgroups. That's what. You don't vote on policy at the federal level though. You protest and demonstrate so that the people that got voted in know what the most dedicated, most likely to vote citizens want. Republicans have smartly courted this vote in recent history by taking a more relaxed stance on marijuana. Hell, crazy racist grandpa Ron Paul ran a 3rd party right wing campaign on that and audit the fed alone and enjoyed (naive) support from younger left wing individuals. It'd be nice if we could get a federal ballot measure on healthcare and criminal justice reform issues, but that isn't how it works. Pressure has to be applied to those with the power to introduce - and fight for - those initiatives.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:59
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Sarcastr0 posted:I am in no way defending the cops, so I'm fine with that. Your thesis gives a much different idea of your views than the post I had responded to did, so my apologies if I drastically misinterpreted it. I would still disagree with your thesis where you said that cracking down would make the police more like the Gestapo, simply because they already ARE more like the Gestapo depending on who you are. If you're a leftist, a protester, or a minority, the police are already more than happy to jackboot you into compliance. What you seem to be promoting here is the idea that cracking down on the Jan 6ers is bad because it makes the police more Gestapo towards the in-group that has always enjoyed police protection. You're advocating letting insurrectionists get away with breaking into the capitol on the grounds that they would subsequently no longer enjoy special treatment and this is somehow worse than the cops treating people that way already. Equal opportunity authoritarianism vs preferential authoritarianism based on whether or not you're a white conservative.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:06
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https://twitter.com/ragregg/status/1461420053505589249?s=21 Biden needs to cancel student debt
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Nov 18, 2021 22:23
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/ragregg/status/1461420053505589249?s=21 This doesn't affect a large enough amount of potential voters to matter, which is why we need to spend all our time figuring out a way to give every individual person present at the capitol on January 6th the harshest possible sentence.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:29
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/ragregg/status/1461420053505589249?s=21 If student loan debt repayments are starting up again, we are at Baghdad Bob levels of reality denial. 
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Nov 18, 2021 22:30
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/ragregg/status/1461420053505589249?s=21 I'm all about people making a stink about it. Starting payments up again would be a boneheaded and harmful thing to do. e: as to Capitol insurrectionists? If I were king-poo poo of America I'd charge them all with Treason and throw them in a dungeon for 20 years. They're lucky our system is so rotten that they're not facing the death penalty. How are u fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 22:30
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Cow Bell posted:This doesn't affect a large enough amount of potential voters to matter, which is why we need to spend all our time figuring out a way to give every individual person present at the capitol on January 6th the harshest possible sentence. Who's doing this?
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Nov 18, 2021 22:30
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Cow Bell posted:This doesn't affect a large enough amount of potential voters to matter, which is why we need to spend all our time figuring out a way to give every individual person present at the capitol on January 6th the harshest possible sentence. It's me, I'm the only one who cares about things and if people would stop disagreeing with me I could resume posting in a very concerned tone. socialsecurity posted:Who's doing this? Literally like one poster a day or two ago but is that going to stop me from characterizing the thread status quo as agreeing with them? gently caress no
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Nov 18, 2021 22:31
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TulliusCicero posted:Honestly what we do need is an FCC enforced crackdown on disinformation that causes riots/ attempted coups/ whatever the gently caress people want to get pedantic about calling an armed group in the nation's capitol, like how Alex Jones seems like he's being sued into oblivion by the Sandy Hook parents. Trump and his flunkies should be sued in court by every person/ person's family that was killed/ hurt in the madness he caused. Before you can have this, you're going to need a legal doctrine that vastly expands the powers of the federal government to regulate speech beyond what we have now. Because your opposition has its rights to say Whatever It Wants literally enshrined in the Bill of Rights, and that's an uphill battle. I'm not saying it's not possible (although I certainly don't think we have such a thing today), although you have to keep in mind that whatever you deploy against the Alex Jones of the world today will inevitably be used against the Democracy NOWs of tomorrow.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:33
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BRJohnson posted:I want to recognize everybody's anger but seriously, if half of America is literal nazi white supremacists (one position in this argument) are we blackpilling and accepting that we must fall? Do we realize the implications? If your solution is to "get rid of them (again literally all republican voters)" please confirm by not posting an alternative. It's not half. More a 30-40%. It's the rough same number as before the Civil War, during Jim Crow, and so on and so on. It's managed to stay as strong as it has because every time it refuses to treat people as people and flips out it gets forgiven and forgotten. The line from Slavery > Civil War > Failed Reconstruction > Jim Crow > Desegregation > Reagan > Trump is at least to me so painfully clear that I truly wonder how people are under the impression that a significant plurality of Americans are not awful people. Like, is this the dispute? It is not like there aren't awful people in other countries, the difference is: a) when they had their civil wars oh boy did the other side get absolutely castrated (not saying it is a good thing but Jesus gently caress at least shoot Jefferson Davis and Lee) b) either as a legacy of that or other things the awful people are less tolerated by society c) Even if the awful people are NOT less tolerated by society they don't get extra special voting power that lets them gently caress up things on a regular It is too late to do a) so either America needs to do b) or c). I don't think there is a path to c) without b) but even if there is it is not whatever the left is doing. The division sets out clear goals - mainly that the left needs to stop trying to appeal to these people's better nature's after my lifetime of achieving virtually nothing by that. How many millions were wasted on ad campaigns of "Unite!"? If the power of the GOP and the lack of it of the left shows anything, that's a fool's game. Only time Americans truly unite to do something huge on a national scale it is to beat somebody up. It's either the British, the South, or Germany, or Communism, or the nebulous concept of Terror. So use that motivation, because GOP sure is and it sure is loving working. Popular votes won.1/7. Presidential terms: 3/7. Supreme Court: 6/9. Just use every goddamn dirty trick available to expand power in the party, and once you take over the party do it so in the governmental level. Yes, I'm talking about riding the wave of hate, agitation, voter bribery, court cases, and whatever else there is. Lenin would stroke out just given five minutes with YouTube and the search words "Trump supporters" because his brain would overload on the propaganda possibilities in that motherlode. It really is just copying the GOP playbook except you don't have to lie, all the things you could possibly call them they eagerly prove to be. Because you have the status quo, a fascist takeover or leftist victory. Or that civil war, but acting now is sort of the key in preventing that. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 22:36
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/ragregg/status/1461420053505589249?s=21 Dems are really doing an own goal here. They could just kept payments frozen and don't nothing else and people would have been happy, even if he didn't do anything else on student loans. Most people knew that serious forgiveness wouldn't be likely, but capping interest, keeping the payments frozen, *something*. But it's just "gently caress you, your payments are going to start up again". Considering how little their voter margins are, they really can't afford to piss off their voters.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:36
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Meatball posted:Dems are really doing an own goal here. They could just kept payments frozen and don't nothing else and people would have been happy, even if he didn't do anything else on student loans. Most people knew that serious forgiveness wouldn't be likely, but capping interest, keeping the payments frozen, *something*. Bu it makes the economy seem stronger!  Just call for a General Strike and everyone defaults on them: what are they going to do: sue everyone?
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Nov 18, 2021 22:40
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Good job Joe, you barely managed to pass a horrible bill that does nothing for Americans and is just handouts to rich people, AND you are starting up student loan payments as salt in the wound as well. I know he wants a strong Republican party, he's going to get one in 2022 and 2024 when they run roughshod over the Democrats. Are they losing on PURPOSE? -Stop wailing about 1/6. Americans do not care about this non event -AT THE VERY LEAST, pause student loan debt. You should be forgiving all student loan debt, considering the memo said you had the power to do it, you're just choosing not to for ????? reasons??? -Give us money. Republicans gave us money. Why are you not giving us money? Oh right, because that would play against the narrative that the country is A-okay and back on track. -Do something about the incredibly high gas, housing, and food prices. -Stop showboating about your awful BBB bill that does nothing but give handouts to the rich and is just bloated highway funding masquerading as an accomplishment. They are GIVING the Republicans 2022 and 2024 on a platter!!! God, just...Do something!!!
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Nov 18, 2021 22:42
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Peter Daou Zen posted:-Stop showboating about your awful BBB bill that does nothing but give handouts to the rich and is just bloated highway funding masquerading as an accomplishment. You have absolutely no idea what's in the BBBA, do you? What lovely reductio ad absurdum.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:46
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