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Oof. It's probably the correct verdict legally sepaking since he got through the gun trust and barrel length loopholes. Since he was then legally there, it's then possible to convince jurors it was self defense. That said it's absolutely insane that a 17 year old can legally take a semi-auto rifle that doesn't belong to him on the streets and go provoke people there.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:46
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The results of the system are the intent of the system. The system works, and if it’s working for you right now, you get to see what that costs right here. Can’t keep a racial caste system in place without verdicts like this, and if you don’t have a racial caste system you cannot have the kind of country we have. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 19, 2021 20:46
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Eric Cantonese posted:Is there a piece about why the DOJ did not step in. Maybe they would have had a hard time fitting the fact pattern into a federal crime, but I'm not an expert on that stuff. If there is I haven't come across it. I am sure there will be once some FOIAs are fulfilled - there is almost certainly some DOJ memos outlining why they declined to prosecute. It is unclear that a federal crime was committed, but a federal warrant to search phones, etc would have probably turned up something, if not damning evidence. It's hard to know how to feel more angry at though - angry that they didn't take this approach, or angry that it's been used to great effect on leftist protestors forever and very specifically during the same kinds of protests Rittenhouse killed people at. Republicans posted:Unless he did bring a gun across state lines, which he didn't, I'm not sure what jurisdiction the feds would have in the case. If it can be proven that he made a straw purchase across state lines then there'd be a federal case. I think that if the feds decided to charge, and obtain a warrant, the likelihood is greater than zero they could prove it. I don't believe for a moment that the gun never cross state lines between May and August. Rittenhouse absolutely believed that the gun belonged to him. skylined! fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 20:49
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CommieGIR posted:Discuss the verdict, discuss the issue with self-defense in general, but if we're going to just piss on the dead by justifying Rittenhouse, this is going to get out of hand. I'm not saying don't discuss the case, but if its going to be "Rittenhouse was right to murder two people", there's no way that ends on a good note discussion wise.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:49
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Flayer posted:This verdict gives more impetus to resistance. I'm extremely left leaning and would vote communist if I had the option. I don't think it's wrong to travel to a protest and I don't think it's wrong to defend yourself. I'm not glad that people died but I'm not against political violence, I welcome it from the left.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:50
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Flayer posted:This verdict gives more impetus to resistance. I'm extremely left leaning and would vote communist if I had the option. I don't think it's wrong to travel to a protest and I don't think it's wrong to defend yourself. I'm not glad that people died but I'm not against political violence, I welcome it from the left. "As a leftist, I am glad it is legal to execute leftists," he said without even a hint of reflection
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Nov 19, 2021 20:51
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rare Magic card l00k posted:Sounds like Biden is now banned from the thread. Yes. Biden is banned. Get him an account.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:51
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hydrocarbonenema posted:If libs start ejecting proud boy brains onto concrete there may be some new momentum on stopping vigilantism. This is a stupid post and I’m kind of surprised it isn’t actionable. Not only is it a Fox News weasel way of calling for violence, but it seems to recognize that the law is a double standard against the left while also being weirdly ignorant of it. You’re just going to end up with your ‘libs’ in prison and Rittenhouse getting off.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:52
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CommieGIR posted:Stop trying to re-litigate the self-defense case Feedback: Let people discuss things Though honestly Rittenhouse probably should have gotten his own thread instead of handling every single piece of american news in here
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Nov 19, 2021 20:52
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I'm curious if anyone's seen any articles that break down the online footprint of Rittenhouse. Was he radicalized by YouTube? Some unsavory chan forum? Or like, offline interactions with older adults in the hunting/republican culture? Or do we have nothing because he was a minor.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:52
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FlamingLiberal posted:So I guess we’re just going to ignore how the judge blatantly favored the defense then Well there's the 78 year old white guy speaking. Blah, terrible.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:53
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Flayer posted:This verdict gives more impetus to resistance. I'm extremely left leaning and would vote communist if I had the option. I don't think it's wrong to travel to a protest and I don't think it's wrong to defend yourself. I'm not glad that people died but I'm not against political violence, I welcome it from the left. He travelled across state lines to defend property with the intent to shoot people. gently caress him. Pamela Springstein posted:Feedback: Let people discuss things Okay fine, go ahead but Mod discretion if you go overboard
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Nov 19, 2021 20:54
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When I step away from specific emotional feelings about the verdict, this is one of the more important feelings/take-aways: https://twitter.com/GravelInstitute/status/1461765240362782726?s=20 It feels so particularly frustrating because it feels like so many people do not get this kind of sympathy of benefit of the doubt.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:55
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Love seeing all the GOP accounts and people like Abbott cheering this on twitter because I know they'll all be silent when the guys that lynched Arbery are found guilty.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:56
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It's fine guys Rittenhouse just took a rifle to the protest to do some hunting and target shooting. Nothing illegal about a little hunting trip. Wait what.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:57
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How are u posted:Well there's the 78 year old white guy speaking. Blah, terrible. What’s this “the” stuff, that’s all there is to him. It cannot be overstated that of all the choices, it’s arguable we got the dude least equipped to deal with the problems we face. Can’t even conceptualize of some of them, I’d bet.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:57
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Flayer posted:This verdict gives more impetus to resistance. I'm extremely left leaning and would vote communist if I had the option. I don't think it's wrong to travel to a protest and I don't think it's wrong to defend yourself. I'm not glad that people died but I'm not against political violence, I welcome it from the left. The issue isn't political violence. The issue is that a white little boy wanted to play cowboy, an older boy threw a plastic bag at him and acted mean, so the little boy freaked out, murdered him, and then freaked out and murdered another person who wanted to make sure that he no longer had the murder weapon he was still holding. We live in a nation that is designed to coddle loving cowards. You can see it reflected in the piece of poo poo judge who despite his baffling judgement lives in a world that is designed to uplift his belief that he is just a smart and objective arbiter of righteousness.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:58
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Vorik posted:What actually happened was he went there to stand around with his gun, as he was legally allowed to in an open carry state, then he was attacked by a group of protestors and he defended himself. Trying to distort the facts won't change the evidence that's widely available. Reinoehl?
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Nov 19, 2021 20:59
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:"As a leftist, I am glad it is legal to execute leftists," he said without even a hint of reflection "As a leftist, I am glade the state will prosecute leftists for defending themselves even more than they already do" There were no good outcomes here. External Organs posted:I'm curious if anyone's seen any articles that break down the online footprint of Rittenhouse. Was he radicalized by YouTube? Some unsavory chan forum? Or like, offline interactions with older adults in the hunting/republican culture? Buzzfeed had some stuff. There's plenty of pictures of him holding rifles looking like a babychud. It seems that he was radicalized by Trump and good ol' fashion American cop worship, and then in a surprising reversal brought that to the internet, instead of radicalizing online. article posted:Kyle Rittenhouse’s social media is filled with references to “Blue Lives Matter.” A Trump campaign spokesperson said, "This individual had nothing to do with our campaign." Vorik posted:What actually happened was he went there to stand around with his gun, as he was legally allowed to in an open carry state, then he was attacked by a group of protestors and he defended himself. Trying to distort the facts won't change the evidence that's widely available. His friend's* gun *tapping forehead guy dot jpg* skylined! fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 20:59
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https://twitter.com/kcstar/status/1461782907480125449?s=21 In non-Rittenhouse news, another cop has been found guilty of manslaughter. Hopefully more and more cops will start being held responsible for their actions
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Nov 19, 2021 21:00
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The case was notably also reported on heavily with incomplete or incorrect information. Most of the initial outrage was how poorly he was kept track of in the wake of it. It was very murky when peoples impressions on it formed. The problem with it is that it's transparently obvious that no one who wasn't like Kyle could get that kind of treatment from the system 100% of the time, and that it will encourage a wave of similarly escalatory behavior because you just showed everyone the magic words and weird tricks you need to get away with it. Normally a case like this would result in some of those holes getting closed(in this case likely a felony to use a gun so acquired unsupervised or for a non sporting or but for such method unlawful purpose, and abetting to such for buying or releasing the gun for such a purpose), certainly if he had been from a 'scarry' group like a socialist gun club or the Panthers. Instead I expect a bunch of holes to be performatively ripped into the law all over the place to protect 'brave heros like Kyle'. Because worst timeline. Who knows what comes out of all this in the end. Though even odds he's up on charges for some other incident before he's 25. We might see him 1/6/24 depending on how things go. And yeah anyone trying the self defense scenario meme while failing the Pantone test or being left of Rush is getting executed by the cops before the nights out or their address leaked to the Lynch mob.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:00
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selec posted:What’s this “the” stuff, that’s all there is to him. It cannot be overstated that of all the choices, it’s arguable we got the dude least equipped to deal with the problems we face. Can’t even conceptualize of some of them, I’d bet. Nah, he's got some good vision. He wouldn't have pushed Infra + BBBA so hard if he didn't. But he's obviously not in the realm of good on every issue.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:04
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skylined! posted:"As a leftist, I am glade the state will prosecute leftists for defending themselves even more than they already do" The state will poo poo all over leftists no matter what, but "Kyle Rittenhouse goes to prison" sounded like a pretty good outcome to me.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:04
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Vigilantism is now legal in America
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Nov 19, 2021 21:06
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Groovelord Neato posted:Love seeing all the GOP accounts and people like Abbott cheering this on twitter because I know they'll all be silent when the guys that lynched Arbery are found guilty. this post is going to have a bad ending. likely. Also maybe to steer the thread convo into something less politically charged, whats the Law magics argument that ALL 12 jurors have to agree with a thing? why cant it be a super majority of 8/12?
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Nov 19, 2021 21:07
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The largest problem is not the specific jury or judge in these cases. It's that self-defense and gun laws in the US are crazy. When you have laws allowing lethal self-defense on the basis of subjective feelings like "did the person genuinely fear for their safety," then you are going to consistently get cases like this. Those laws even make it more beneficial to kill the person, because you can justify your fear and they can't testify. When you combine "the line between murder and self-defense is how the person felt at the time" + "the subjective feelings of a jury" + "beyond a reasonable doubt," then you are never going to be able to read someone's mind and prove their subjective feeling at the time beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:08
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Trazz posted:Vigilantism is now legal in America When was it not?
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Nov 19, 2021 21:09
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https://twitter.com/Hbomberguy/status/1461778260627529736?s=20
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Nov 19, 2021 21:10
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Trazz posted:Vigilantism is now legal in America It was legal before the trial. In Wisconsin you are allowed to protect property with guns as long as your response is proportionate (how black the person near your property is).
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Nov 19, 2021 21:11
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PhazonLink posted:this post is going to have a bad ending. likely. The Arbery case is not going well for the defendants. That is one where I actually would be surprised by a not guilty even with our incredibly racist system.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:14
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The largest problem is not the specific jury or judge in these cases. It's that self-defense and gun laws in the US are crazy. Yes, remember what happened when the Black Panthers decided to use those crazy self defense and gun laws for themselves and armed up? Just got prepared, as far as I know, in general. No actual intent to DO anything outside of a bad actor or two, just doing what the Constitution supposedly allowed them to do. What happened there again?
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Nov 19, 2021 21:15
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This case will set an important precedent that people who shoot Nazis in self-defence will not be prosecuted and found guilty by the state either. Soon you will all see how smart I am, we must needs simply wait for someone who shoots a Nazi to make it to court without getting assassinated by the cops first
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Nov 19, 2021 21:16
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Groovelord Neato posted:The Arbery case is not going well for the defendants. That is one where I actually would be surprised by a not guilty even with our incredibly racist system. I haven't followed that case, but the facts of that case alone are just bonkers and lol those idiots just could not shut the gently caress up to save their lives.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:18
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The same people who claim Zimmerman was right to chase Trayvon Martin with a gun and murder him when Martin defended himself also claim that Rittenhouse was right to murder people for chasing him.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:18
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Cornwind Evil posted:Yes, remember what happened when the Black Panthers decided to use those crazy self defense and gun laws for themselves and armed up? Just got prepared, as far as I know, in general. Well, the California legislature magically found a way for California to stop being an open-carry state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act quote:No actual intent to DO anything outside of a bad actor or two, just doing what the Constitution supposedly allowed them to do. Some people don't take kindly to attempts to mobilize the lumpen proletariat. Honestly, I do think the only way you get these laws to change is to encourage ways for dark skinned people to start exploiting loopholes too. America is annoyingly predictable about this kind of poo poo.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:19
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CommieGIR posted:When was it not? When leftists or minorities do it
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Nov 19, 2021 21:19
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Cornwind Evil posted:Yes, remember what happened when the Black Panthers decided to use those crazy self defense and gun laws for themselves and armed up? Just got prepared, as far as I know, in general. No actual intent to DO anything outside of a bad actor or two, just doing what the Constitution supposedly allowed them to do. Nothing happened to them initially. That was why they passed the Mulford act. That was also well before stand your ground laws and self-defense rulings being based entirely on the mens rea of the perpetrator - which is how all of these people are getting off. The Kate Steinle case is another example of how you can kill someone and get away with it if someone can't prove you were definitely planning to murder someone when you did it - even if you were being wildly negligent and illegally possessing a gun (but, the right-wing hated that case because the shooter who got off was an illegal immigrant). Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 21:20
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CommieGIR posted:Stop trying to re-litigate the self-defense case Discussing the actual details of the case is inappropriate, only calls to burn down cities are allowed.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:21
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CommieGIR posted:Discuss the verdict, discuss the issue with self-defense in general, but if we're going to just piss on the dead by justifying Rittenhouse, this is going to get out of hand. I'm not saying don't discuss the case, but if its going to be "Rittenhouse was right to murder two people", there's no way that ends on a good note discussion wise.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:21
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Bel Shazar posted:When leftists or minorities do it Yes, but I meant more for Right wing people.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:22
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