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Main Paineframe posted:The key to Uber's success isn't the app, it's pretending that drivers are independent contractors and making them provide their own vehicles. The massive potential workforce this enables is crucial to their quality of service. No, I'm pretty sure the success is the app. No actual consumer cares one bit on the employment details of the guy driving.. Everyone cared a huge amount they made taxis a thing where you click a map then it charges your credit card seamlessly instead of taxis being a weird complicated set of antagonistic interactions from start to finish
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Nov 18, 2021 13:01
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I think the key to Main Paineframe's point is the bolded portion of the quote. Main Paineframe posted:The key to Uber's success isn't the app, it's pretending that drivers are independent contractors and making them provide their own vehicles. The massive potential workforce this enables is crucial to their quality of service.
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Nov 18, 2021 13:20
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silence_kit posted:Yeah. The Goon Tendency five years ago to deny that taxis were terrible was at odds with my experiences with using taxis too. Called cabs never showing, 'my card reader is broken', 'I have no change', etc. Reminders of the DC zone system make me break out in hives
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Nov 18, 2021 13:22
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:No, I'm pretty sure the success is the app. No actual consumer cares one bit on the employment details of the guy driving.. Everyone cared a huge amount they made taxis a thing where you click a map then it charges your credit card seamlessly instead of taxis being a weird complicated set of antagonistic interactions from start to finish Consumers care about having taxis available on demand which is made possible via all drivers being 1099 employees
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Nov 18, 2021 13:30
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nachos posted:Consumers care about having taxis available on demand which is made possible via all drivers being 1099 employees In an alternate world where traditional taxis had shifted to using a universal, east to use map with GPS pickup and destination maps and simple global payment and Uber had launched as "wave a guy down on the road then vaguely describe an address he may or may not know how to get to" I absolutely guarantee people would have been using the traditional taxis. There is nothing about the employment structure that made taxis have to be like they were.
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Nov 18, 2021 13:43
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suck my woke dick posted:And some major car manufacturers also haven't learned this lesson, what with their electric cars looking like a Tesla crashed into a spaceship into a phone shop. Just make a VW Golf but it has a battery instead of a gas tank, with exactly the same buttons and indicators as the regular Golf.
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Nov 18, 2021 14:07
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:In an alternate world where traditional taxis had shifted to using a universal, east to use map with GPS pickup and destination maps and simple global payment and Uber had launched as "wave a guy down on the road then vaguely describe an address he may or may not know how to get to" I absolutely guarantee people would have been using the traditional taxis. There is nothing about the employment structure that made taxis have to be like they were.
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Nov 18, 2021 14:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:No, I'm pretty sure the success is the app. No actual consumer cares one bit on the employment details of the guy driving.. Everyone cared a huge amount they made taxis a thing where you click a map then it charges your credit card seamlessly instead of taxis being a weird complicated set of antagonistic interactions from start to finish The employment structure is how Uber eliminated the antagonistic interactions from the taxi system. They're able to fire workers practically at a whim, allowing them to maintain a tyrannical system in which drivers are desperate to maintain customer satisfaction lest they be fired at Uber's whim. Even fast food companies, notorious for high turnover and quick firings due to a large potential workforce, can't just fire anyone whose customer satisfaction rating falls below 4.6 out of 5. Uber's independent contractor model allows them to easily maintain significantly more active workers than they need in an area without incurring extra costs, which not only helps to maintain quick service but also makes individual workers extremely disposable. The secret to ensuring absolutely no bullshit whatsoever from the drivers isn't the app - it's the employment environment Uber created in which they have overwhelming power against the driver.
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Nov 18, 2021 15:14
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Main Paineframe posted:The employment structure is how Uber eliminated the antagonistic interactions from the taxi system. They're able to fire workers practically at a whim, allowing them to maintain a tyrannical system in which drivers are desperate to maintain customer satisfaction lest they be fired at Uber's whim. Even fast food companies, notorious for high turnover and quick firings due to a large potential workforce, can't just fire anyone whose customer satisfaction rating falls below 4.6 out of 5. Uber's independent contractor model allows them to easily maintain significantly more active workers than they need in an area without incurring extra costs, which not only helps to maintain quick service but also makes individual workers extremely disposable. The secret to ensuring absolutely no bullshit whatsoever from the drivers isn't the app - it's the employment environment Uber created in which they have overwhelming power against the driver. i agree with this but want to add it is not a sustainable strategy - uber and other rideshares had to deal with a driver shortage this year, as eventually you're going to burn through the pool of available labor if you fire or alienate drivers at a high rate. uber had to raise prices and compensation this year to lure drivers back, as while driving during covid was a big disincentive, the number one reason most interviewed drivers cite as a reason for quitting is low pay
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Nov 18, 2021 15:19
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I haven't taken a taxi in a long time but back when I did more regularly (aside from just flagging one in the city), I got into the habit of calling 2 or 3 and always felt bad for the one(s) that didn't make it. I wasn't trying to be an rear end in a top hat. It was a safeguard against the cab not showing up and making me late for a flight or something so I just let a few of them race for it. No show cabs were something like 50%.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:00
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When I used to drive for Uber I sometimes got calls where someone had called like Yellow Cab, their dispatcher just used the Uber app to summon me with the riders destination entered, and then they’d take the rider’s credit card info over the phone. I show up, the passenger looks surprised my grey Honda is a Yellow Cab, and they eventually tell me they paid $20 more than the Uber ride would have been. The cab company also wouldn’t tip the driver obviously. So the cab company was just using Uber too, without even having the step of needing cars and drivers. How they didn’t leverage that to a billion dollar market cap is a mystery.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:16
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All of my taxi experiences in the US pre-Lyft/Uber involved drivers who had no idea where well-known city landmarks were, or who intentionally or unintentionally got lost and added time to the trip, or who were either late or never showed up, or all three. The specifics of the employment structure and making people use their own cars are how Uber and Lyft have made truly ludicrous amounts of money, but I'm confident that even without those, basic ideas like "make drivers actually show up for pickups" and "determine the route price ahead of time" would have led to them being smash successes anyway.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:43
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Roadie posted:All of my taxi experiences in the US pre-Lyft/Uber involved drivers who had no idea where well-known city landmarks were, or who intentionally or unintentionally got lost and added time to the trip, or who were either late or never showed up, or all three. this. its just this. no one is happy about Uber exploiting workers but taxi drivers are exploited too. so are you gonna use the service that gets you where you wanna go, or the one that might not actually show up? Uber had an app, taxis did not. thats all there is to it. Taxi drivers were already exploited and treated like poo poo by the employer, thats why they pulled all the dirty tricks they did. Taxis could have developed the exact same app and everyone would have been happy that taxi's were now easier and more reliable to book. Ubers app is the exact opposite of the the taxi experience everyone was already familiar with. that is the single and sole reason it has become the default means of ride-hailing vs. taxis. Uber absolutely could (and should!) pay the drivers more but is it going to see an improvement in customer experience and market share? absolutely not. so why would they?
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Nov 18, 2021 23:07
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Roadie posted:All of my taxi experiences in the US pre-Lyft/Uber involved drivers who had no idea where well-known city landmarks were, or who intentionally or unintentionally got lost and added time to the trip, or who were either late or never showed up, or all three. Uber has not been making money off its business, and has instead been losing billions every year. Even now, with a massive increase in their bookings, Uber was still down hundreds of millions of dollars last quarter. Without VC money constantly pouring in (for some reason, they can't seriously still think they'll see a return???), Uber would have crashed and burned years ago.
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Nov 19, 2021 00:59
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An optimistic take on Uber is that, by the time most people agree it’s trip into jitney cap purveyor is over, VCs will have spent ~100B to make taxi companies/drivers adopt an app and better business practices. If that comes to pass, I will start to believe in the power of tech.
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Nov 19, 2021 01:52
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Schubalts posted:Uber has not been making money off its business, and has instead been losing billions every year. Even now, with a massive increase in their bookings, Uber was still down hundreds of millions of dollars last quarter. Without VC money constantly pouring in (for some reason, they can't seriously still think they'll see a return???), Uber would have crashed and burned years ago. The sunk cost fallacy is a cruel mistress, and our collective economy is being operated largely by Wile E. Coyote logic.
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Nov 19, 2021 03:11
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Anyone who doesn't understand uber's popularity wasn't a regular users of taxis. I used taxis in 20+ countries pre uber and never once experienced a service that was as reliable as uber. You call a car at the press of a button, you can track exactly where it is on the way to you, the trip is paid for by card instead of desperately having to find an ATM mid trip if you've no cash, and the entire trip is mapped so you don't get screwed by the driver "getting lost". Thats why its so popular globally. It sucks they exploit their drivers, they should undoubtedly take a lower % cut and/or pay the drivers more. But its impossible to argue the service wasn't a massive quality of life improvement for customers worldwide. The fact its burning through VC cash at a hilarious rate is a nice side benefit, though.
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Nov 19, 2021 12:48
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MickeyFinn posted:An optimistic take on Uber is that, by the time most people agree it’s trip into jitney cap purveyor is over, VCs will have spent ~100B to make taxi companies/drivers adopt an app and better business practices. If that comes to pass, I will start to believe in the power of tech. An optimistic take on Uber is that by burning through $100b in venture capital cash and losing money on every single ride they've facilitated one of the biggest wealth redistributions of the 21st century. blunt fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 12:58
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Like, the whole issues with taxis was it was like pulling teeth to get the bare minimum of basic service. It's like the above tale of dealerships technically stocking electric cars but actively trying to stop people from buying them.
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Nov 19, 2021 13:04
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London cabs were/are generally self employed pre Uber and lost a load of business to the better customer experience in through the app, so I dont think the employment angle is a strong argument.
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Nov 19, 2021 15:08
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Uber is minicabs (a well understood and reasonably regulated service in London) and Londoners acted like getting a minicab by app was super radical
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Nov 19, 2021 15:24
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https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-last-Consumer-Reports-16632996.php Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list Following a tumultuous year for Tesla including a company relocation helmed by CEO Elon Musk, viral reports of cars on fire and other self-admitted quality control issues, Tesla has plummeted on Consumer Reports’ annual list of most-reliable carmakers. The electric car manufacturer now ranks 27th out of 28 car brands on Consumer Reports’ list, above only Ford-owned legacy luxury brand Lincoln. Much of it has to do with the overall instability of electric vehicles in general — especially SUVs — which Consumer Reports’ Jake Fisher said during a presentation are the “absolute bottom in terms of reliability,” according to Reuters. But considering that, at one point, the Tesla Model S excelled so much in Consumer Reports’ own analyses that the organization itself said it was “breaking the Consumer Reports Ratings system” due to its excellence, the low rank is tough criticism for Tesla and its legions of enthusiasts. Among the concerns Consumer Reports had for the Tesla Model S, X and Y lines, according to CNBC, were issues with “heat pumps, air conditioning” and notoriously, misaligned panels. It’s also worth noting that Tesla’s Model X ranked dead-last among all cars for reliability, scoring a 5 out of 100. The issue, Consumer Reports’ Fisher told CNBC, is that the company has the tendency to “add so much tech that is not necessary.” And while this makes for a product that varies wildly from year to year, it is part of the Tesla brand that enthusiasts adore. Note: The Kia EV I have is #2, with only a Lexus SUV ahead of it and a Prius Prime as #3. Win.
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Nov 19, 2021 18:24
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VideoGameVet posted:https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-last-Consumer-Reports-16632996.php Related: https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-owners-report-app-being-down-locking-them-out-their-cars-1651495?amp=1 Tesla had an outage that locked a bunch of people out of their car and stranded them 
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Nov 20, 2021 00:24
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divabot posted:Uber is minicabs (a well understood and reasonably regulated service in London) and Londoners acted like getting a minicab by app was super radical If you understand it "well" you'll realise no minicab service in the UK operated anything close to the Uber model, which is way closer to black cabs than the minicab "phone up and order a journey some time in the future" system.
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Nov 20, 2021 00:48
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Jose Valasquez posted:Related: https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-owners-report-app-being-down-locking-them-out-their-cars-1651495?amp=1 For a second I thought I ended up reading something from 2019...........
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Nov 20, 2021 02:24
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blunt posted:An optimistic take on Uber is that by burning through $100b in venture capital cash and losing money on every single ride they've facilitated one of the biggest wealth redistributions of the 21st century.
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Nov 20, 2021 03:37
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Foxfire_ posted:It is largely redistribution from venture capital to the users of taxis, not to the drivers though (the drivers are paid poorly when mileage/car depreciation are factored in) I would have put it as a redistribution to the auto industry.
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Nov 20, 2021 04:13
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Jose Valasquez posted:Related: https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-owners-report-app-being-down-locking-them-out-their-cars-1651495?amp=1 The gently caress? Why? Why is that loving possible?
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Nov 20, 2021 22:22
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BigRed0427 posted:The gently caress? Why? Why is that loving possible? Disruption!
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Nov 20, 2021 22:27
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Ah, a perfect example of just why we should use our phones for everything.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:30
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BigRed0427 posted:The gently caress? Why? Why is that loving possible? Because the key still works like any other car.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:38
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Tech is forever, wall lightning and telecom signals are forever and never have outages.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:38
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Everyone wants every little device connected for convenience, and then is suppressed that doing so might set themselves up for heartache when their provider either terminates their always-connected device or fails to uphold their nine nine's service level agreement.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:44
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BigRed0427 posted:The gently caress? Why? Why is that loving possible? Because Tesla's gimmick is to introduce features that lull users into a sense of complacency and then fail with terrible consequences which then get blamed on the user
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Nov 20, 2021 23:02
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BigRed0427 posted:The gently caress? Why? Why is that loving possible? They weren't completely locked out. The key still worked. But since they could unlock the car via the Tesla app, many owners stopped bothering to carry their physical keys around, since they already had something in their pocket that could unlock the car. The app doesn't directly communicate with the car, though. It sends the request via the internet to Tesla's servers, and then Tesla's servers authenticate it and forward it along to the car. If Tesla's servers go down, then everyone who didn't bring their backup physical key with them is in trouble. It's just another example of how Tesla designs stuff that tends to fail poorly, and then markets it in a way that leads users to overly rely on the best-case scenario and neglect backup options.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:48
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Main Paineframe posted:They weren't completely locked out. The key still worked. But since they could unlock the car via the Tesla app, many owners stopped bothering to carry their physical keys around, since they already had something in their pocket that could unlock the car. Did "many owners" do that, or did a guy on twitter that article is using as a source do that? The key is rfid and comes in a bunch of form factors and each car comes with two credit card style key cards. There is pretty much no reason for someone to not just shove that in their wallet in case their phone dies. You need a pretty silly set of circumstances to have the app being down to stop you from using your car.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:57
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Main Paineframe posted:They weren't completely locked out. The key still worked. But since they could unlock the car via the Tesla app, many owners stopped bothering to carry their physical keys around, since they already had something in their pocket that could unlock the car. Backups aren't backups unless they are tested regularly, and this is a perfect example of reinforcing bad user habits so that this occurs. Also, there is no reason it should need to talk to the internet to unlock your car. That's just stupidity/data mining. If you MUST use your phone there are better ways of implementing this.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:58
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Did "many owners" do that, or did a guy on twitter that article is using as a source do that? The key is rfid and comes in a bunch of form factors and each car comes with two credit card style key cards. There is pretty much no reason for someone to not just shove that in their wallet in case their phone dies. You need a pretty silly set of circumstances to have the app being down to stop you from using your car. These are people who bought Teslas, they aren't known for thinking things through
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Nov 21, 2021 00:32
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Tesla's servers don't even need to go down for this to be a problem. Hope you never pull over in a place with no cell reception. https://www.vox.com/2017/1/15/14278516/tesla-stranded-cell-reception-red-rock-canyon
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Nov 21, 2021 00:35
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Motronic posted:If you MUST use your phone there are better ways of implementing this. loving authentication from a central server is like an unpaid intern level project. Which seems extremely on brand with the kind of corner cutting I've seen from Tesla.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:49
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