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Finkelstein is a very cool lad who is absolutely up to here with people cynically exploiting his parent's memory to legitimise far right political projects iirc
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Nov 21, 2021 13:26
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therattle posted:There are also antisemites on the left. The argument about Corbyn increasing AS is flawed but don’t pretend that AS is limited to the right He didn't say on the left. He said listening to Corbyn. An antisemite isn't listening to Corbyn about Israel, they're just taking their pre-existing racism and deciding that the stance of a lifelong anti-racist somehow validates it. Kind of like when someone reads a post and responds to what they wish it said instead of what it actually said.
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Nov 21, 2021 13:35
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ThomasPaine posted:Finkelstein is a very cool lad who is absolutely up to here with people cynically exploiting his parent's memory to legitimise far right political projects iirc  Jewish Chronicle posted:Dismissing suggestions that you should be labelled an antisemite if you denied the Holocaust or if you “call Jews killers of Christ”, Mr Finkelstein said: "I don’t know if Jews killed Christ or not – those are things that should be debated and you come up with your own conclusions.”
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Nov 21, 2021 13:54
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smellmycheese posted:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/20/what-fresh-hell-must-philips-will-contain-to-make-the-royal-family-look-any-worse
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Nov 21, 2021 14:17
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Borrovan posted:Yeah that's always been my impression. But, googling what Jakabite was talking about is a bit I guess you'd have to listen to the recording yourself to get the context and decide if that's the case. I haven't btw - life is too short! I think it's this one but I might be wrong. JC article only includes a screen grab. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPlbQqm0CLI
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Nov 21, 2021 14:21
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I'm probably opening a can of worms here but I do find something pretty uncomfortable in the idea that any particular historical event can be considered static and immutable, with a single agreed upon 'correct' narrative and no scope for interpretation, and for that to be legally enforced. It seems to contradict the whole point of the historical discipline. I don't think that position implies that the holocaust was anything less than the horrific thing it was.
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Nov 21, 2021 14:24
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Because the people who are very anxious to argue about how it didn't happen are invariably a danger to society individually and en masse. Same as the weirdos who go on about age of consent laws, yes it might not be a perfect map to how people actually work but having the law is much better than not having it because the people who want to get rid of it are all loving creeps. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 14:26
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Comrade Fakename posted:A few months ago I got nostalgic and decided to check out all the godawful webcomics I used to read daily back in the early 2000s, and see what had become of them. Obviously PA is still trundling on, but to my shock, literally every other one was too, the ones I could remember anyway. I guess they still have followings after all these years.  Like it's dunking on crypto bros ruining everything, which is true, but the more general point about gatekeeping and respect is exactly what my issue was with Finkelstein's idea that you need to platform Holocaust deniers so that students can learn the holes in the argument or whatever. It works off of an assumption that they have equal respect for the history and differ only in interpretation, and maybe, perhaps, if you could find a denier who did respect the history and wasn't a grifter, bigot, Nazi sympathizer, contrarian edgelord, hopelessly miseducated, or all of the above, then it might provide a learning point, but I have many other things I'd rather do with my time on this earth than try to find one who isn't among the 99.9% who are, like reread all the godawful webcomics I used to read daily back in the early 2000s or set my pubes on fire. Sometimes gatekeeping isn't bad. Finkelstein is not himself a Holocaust denier, but I think in being deplatformed and gatekeeped (gatekept?) so many times he's become the type of free speech extremist that forgets that sometimes there's people you don't platform because they have no interest in acting in any kind of good faith, bring up the same half-dozen lovely points, and then magically half of your audience is skinheads and nobody wants to attend your debates. You can make similar arguments for why you really don't have to have to have a 'gender critical' voice at your gender identity debate or a goldbug at your monetary policy conference or a flat earther at your geophysics seminar (especially as they all seem to be the same circle of cryptofascist misanthropes). I didn't have "00s videos game webcomic accidentally makes a more salient point about the limits of debate than any other media outlet" down on my November bingo card, lol
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Nov 21, 2021 14:37
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It's all just restatements of Popper's Tolerance Paradox, innit. At worst I would say Finkelstein is misguided in his free speech stuff, but he's not a malevolent troll like Greenwald, plus he's actually a serious scholar so there's some substance there not just pure-strain contrarianism
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Nov 21, 2021 14:45
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Greenwald is always going to be a confusing one because of the amount of times he's been on Chapo, and they still won't criticise him because he legitimises Amber's route into legit journalism. It's weird. Very much someone who's been right in the past, but has long since forgotten about the origins of his arguments and strayed into contrarian brainworms territory.
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Nov 21, 2021 14:51
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He's actually fash now
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Nov 21, 2021 15:02
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smellmycheese posted:I mean his mistress was literally given one of the handful of seats at his funeral, whilst being studiously avoided by any cameramen. I don’t think it’s hard to work out what’s being kept secret. Unless he bunged a few extra quid to the Paris hitman "To my trusted butler I leave my white fiat uno and 'i 💓 paris' mug".
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Nov 21, 2021 15:24
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Tarnop posted:He didn't say on the left. He said listening to Corbyn. An antisemite isn't listening to Corbyn about Israel, they're just taking their pre-existing racism and deciding that the stance of a lifelong anti-racist somehow validates it. Kind of like when someone reads a post and responds to what they wish it said instead of what it actually said. You are drawing a very fine and I think effectively meaningless distinction between people who listen to Corbyn, and people on the left. As I read it (maybe wrongly) OP was implying that people who listen to Corbyn (leftists) aren’t racists, i.e. there are no left-wing racists.
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Nov 21, 2021 15:32
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Christ that article borders on unreadable at points. I can only assume that this is one of those journos who considers themselves too important for editing. I struggled with it as well, perhaps there was as editor involved though, removing any parts that would actually be of interest (ie references to his mistress or other parties he's left his stuff to)
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Nov 21, 2021 15:51
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therattle posted:As I read it (maybe wrongly) OP was implying that people who listen to Corbyn (leftists) aren’t racists, i.e. there are no left-wing racists. Another way of rewording my point would be that racists are going to be racist no matter who says what. A guy who hates jewish people does not need Corbyn mildly criticising the illegal occupation of the west bank to climb over a barrier at a football game and claw screaming at Stephen Fry's face (a thing that actually did happen). I would say that the overlap between 'people who are politically aligned with Corbyn' and 'racists, in particular people who hate jewish people' is a venn diagram with an overlap labelled 'people who have never listened to a single word from Corbyn, just his monstering in the Sun / Mail / Express and thought that version sounded good.' However I fully anticipate being told that Venn Diagrams don't work like that. There is antisemitism on the left. There is antisemitism in the general population. There is statistical evidence that it is no worse in leftist groups than it is in the general population. There is however a lot of evidence that the label of 'racist antisemite' fits better on ham faced mechanics whining into their divorce papers about JaReMy CrObNy than it does the chad leftist.
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Nov 21, 2021 15:54
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Finklesteins proposal is stupid not just because you're platforming Nazis, but on the fundamental issue that untrue things outnumber true things millions to one, and spending time knowingly teaching untrue things is time not spent teaching true things. If you have to expand the science curriculum to include Piltdown man, Lamarkian evolution, germ denialism, HIV denialism, flat earth, creationism, super dosing vitamins, homeopathy, vaccine denialism, etc... as equal theories then you literally won't have enough time to teach normal stuff. Edit: apologies to Lamark for including him in that crowd. Guy was a legit scientist he was just wrong about the mechanism of evolution.
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Nov 21, 2021 16:12
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There is some value in teaching wrong theories (with it being clear that they are wrong) where they illuminate common pitfalls or provide context for how the more correct theory was arrived at - Lamarckism is a good example because it is in some ways more intuitive than Darwinian evolution, and because it has kept cropping up again and again as an idea. But you don't have a Lamarckist guest lecturer do that, you can just spend half an hour explaining what it is, how it was found to be wrong, and how to avoid falling into the same trap yourself. Similarly I imagine if you're teaching about the Holocaust it's worthwhile to mention Holocaust denial as both a historical and contemporary phenomenon, but you don't need to bring in a neo-Nazi to promote it.
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Nov 21, 2021 16:27
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No-one is saying don't mention denialism, everyone is saying giving bullshit equal weight is moronic.
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Nov 21, 2021 16:30
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Bug Squash posted:Finklesteins proposal is stupid not just because you're platforming Nazis, but on the fundamental issue that untrue things outnumber true things millions to one, In fact theres a countably infinite number of true things, and a larger, uncountably infinite number of untrue things. Therefore, a logical person must assume that any thing you hear or see is infinitely likely to be untrue. Essentially, Trust Only Your Fists, Facts Will Never Help You the prior statements may not be true
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Nov 21, 2021 16:34
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Failed Imagineer posted:In fact theres a countably infinite number of true things, and a larger, uncountably infinite number of untrue things. Therefore, a logical person must assume that any thing you hear or see is infinitely likely to be untrue. Essentially, Trust Only Your Fists, Facts Will Never Help You Speaking as a Boltzmann Brain experiencing the SomethingAwful forums as my dying thoughts, you are entirely correct.
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Nov 21, 2021 16:48
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Yo friends! I have decided, a day before turning 29 that I want to finally get on HRT and live as a happier, truer form of myself. I'm wondering if there are any decent resources for how to best handle this, considering how TERF island is? Or other threads on SA that would help 
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Nov 21, 2021 16:57
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Bobby Deluxe posted:You made me go back and reread my own post, which is an absolutely unforgivable crime. Note I didn't mention the words 'the left.' As OP let me confirm that was not my meaning, and you'd have to take a very selective interpretation to get there. Yep, that all makes complete sense. (I’m not being sarcastic).
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Nov 21, 2021 17:28
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This is a fab resource a friend shared: http://radio.garden/ Interactive global map with radio stations. I'm just listening to Oum Kalthoum on Gaza FM  No, it's Shebab radio - I misread the screen.My friend is listening to a French radio station. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 17:45
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:This is a fab resource a friend shared: Thanks! I used to listen to a similar site years ago, before they closed. I used to listen to some UFO sighting channel from the US, sounded like it was run from some guys shed.
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Nov 21, 2021 18:22
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'David Irving is a good historian' is a bad and wrong take in itself, by anyone, any time in the 21st century (at least) and is automatically suspect.
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Nov 21, 2021 18:24
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The Question IRL posted:Just to circle back to this, I'm not 100% sure the Euro is bad. Even the euro architects knew that the euro would create a crisis, their hope was the crisis would mean they could create a banking union to solve it and integrate the EU further, boy where they wrong... Like using the same currency, that's the step that'd come even after full federalization of the EU. They totally put the horse before the cart here. It just can't work without all the other structures in place before to support it and before the economies are integrated enough. As an side, without the euro, there wouldn't have been a greek crisis to begin with. It's also why southern europe is screwed.
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Nov 21, 2021 18:35
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Skeletome posted:Yo friends! I have decided, a day before turning 29 that I want to finally get on HRT and live as a happier, truer form of myself. I don’t have any resources, but congrats
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Nov 21, 2021 18:38
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Skeletome posted:Yo friends! I have decided, a day before turning 29 that I want to finally get on HRT and live as a happier, truer form of myself. The trans thread in Cool Crew Chat Central may well be able to help you. Good luck!
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Nov 21, 2021 18:38
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Skeletome posted:Yo friends! I have decided, a day before turning 29 that I want to finally get on HRT and live as a happier, truer form of myself. Also unable to provide good advice, on this subject or in general, but congratulations too! (I always feel weird congratulating people for being lgbtq because while on the one hand yes it does make you cooler, on the other hand it is also hard work and generally not elective)
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Nov 21, 2021 19:01
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OwlFancier posted:Also unable to provide good advice, on this subject or in general, but congratulations too! I think one can congratulate someone for making a difficult choice or decision that is ultimately true to themselves. You’re congratulating the action not the status. (Congratulations, BTW!)
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Nov 21, 2021 19:20
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Jakabite posted:Yeah sorry I’m kinda drunk and was just going off my second hand source (my partner). I’ve taken a look and yeah not sure what the deal is with them saying he’s a Holocaust denier? Really recommend doing some reading on this point
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Nov 21, 2021 19:33
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Bug Squash posted:Finklesteins proposal is stupid not just because you're platforming Nazis, but on the fundamental issue that untrue things outnumber true things millions to one, and spending time knowingly teaching untrue things is time not spent teaching true things. If you have to expand the science curriculum to include Piltdown man, Lamarkian evolution, germ denialism, HIV denialism, flat earth, creationism, super dosing vitamins, homeopathy, vaccine denialism, etc... as equal theories then you literally won't have enough time to teach normal stuff. I'm enjoying this post combined with your avatar.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:34
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Had a bit of a weird one yesterday. A couple of guys on electric scooters and balaclavas tried to mug me as I got out of my car near Riddrie as I was visiting Glasgow. They sped off once they realised I had a good grip on my bag and had at least half a foot over them, so they yelled at me like I was the rear end in a top hat in that situation. I don't think I've ever felt less threatened in my life.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:38
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Did you call the police? Was it a rental scooter?
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Nov 21, 2021 19:44
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Did you call the police? poo poo, probably should have reported it. I'll call the local police tomorrow morning. No idea what a rental scooter looks like, sorry.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:48
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A couple of years ago it was very much A Thing in London to have people on scooters/bikes try to snatch people's phones/bags out of their hands and drive off.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:52
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His Divine Shadow posted:As an side, without the euro, there wouldn't have been a greek crisis to begin with. It's also why southern europe is screwed. some kind of crisis was probably inevitable by the time Greece joins the Eurozone in 2001 - those twin deficits were mainly racked up with the drachma, not the euro, and even allowing for sharp devaluations. when Greece devalues in the 1980s it has low trade deficits and structural deficits; by the 1990s this is no longer true albeit it would have been closer to a latam-style crisis when devaluation hammers import and borrowing costs but without significantly improving competitiveness or deficits this doesn't obviate the Eurozone question, albeit the question is different: whether it is in any individual Eurozone member's interest to not be an Eurozone member just to avoid a risk of spreading contagion to other countries when default risk rates diverge suddenly, especially if it is the country likely to start a contagion. seen that way, it is obvious why the riskiest countries want to be in the Eurozone so badly to begin with
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Nov 21, 2021 19:54
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Miftan posted:A couple of years ago it was very much A Thing in London to have people on scooters/bikes try to snatch people's phones/bags out of their hands and drive off. Had my phone nicked by them. Cunts.
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Nov 21, 2021 20:05
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I recall a long and passionate derail about the morality of the plod running down the scooterthieves and forcibly dismounting them.
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Nov 21, 2021 20:12
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Z the IVth posted:I recall a long and passionate derail about the morality of the plod running down the scooterthieves and forcibly dismounting them. I think the issue was that the 'forcible dismounting' was them ramming the mopeds with their cars or motorbikes, and this often happened at the end of a chase which put a bunch of passers-by's lives in danger.
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Nov 21, 2021 20:15
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