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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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cant cook creole bream posted:Sounds about right, yes. Yeah the vaccines are good and both traditional antivaxx and weird health anxiety antivaxx where people tell each other the vaccines are failures with little effect and they need to take more and more endlessly to have any safety are both harmful. The vaccines have been very very good, the boosters make them better, but not because they failed or stopped working or everyone became unvaccinated a few weeks after the first set of shots.
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Nov 21, 2021 22:48
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah the vaccines are good and both traditional antivaxx and weird health anxiety antivaxx where people tell each other the vaccines are failures with little effect and they need to take more and more endlessly to have any safety are both harmful. The vaccines have been very very good, the boosters make them better, but not because they failed or stopped working or everyone became unvaccinated a few weeks after the first set of shots. Enough of this lovely pointless hyperbole, post this poo poo again and you can have a free posting vacation of indeterminate length. 
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Nov 21, 2021 22:56
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Professor Beetus posted:Enough of this lovely pointless hyperbole, post this poo poo again and you can have a free posting vacation of indeterminate length. OOCC seems to be posting totally reasonable stuff, which is not hyperbolic or objectionable.
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Nov 21, 2021 23:05
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Platystemon posted:I don’t see the appeal of continuing to care what other people do Surely the past two years have been an intensive course in learning just how dramatically what other people do affects our own lives?
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Nov 21, 2021 23:08
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Wang Commander posted:Everyone should get the booster and spread the word that it's both important and universally available in the US Two months ahead of you there...
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Nov 21, 2021 23:11
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mod sassinator posted:Two months ahead of you there... We got problems if people in the cspam covid thread of all places still come in every day like oh can I get a booster yet
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Nov 21, 2021 23:12
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https://twitter.com/DFisman/status/1461863341798965250 This thread is a good case study in scientific literacy. In short, if people set up experiments wrong, their conclusions are worse than useless. If these poor experiments are included in meta analyses, they can hide the effect shown by any good studies. Garbage in, garbage out.
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Nov 21, 2021 23:19
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freebooter posted:Surely the past two years have been an intensive course in learning just how dramatically what other people do affects our own lives? You’re reduced it to “why care about what other people do at all” when my point was “why care about people doing things that you yourself do ”. Like, I understand brunch goers beefing with pizza washers, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense for someone who is washing their own pizzas to be questioning the wisdom of anyone else doing it.
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Nov 21, 2021 23:28
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Kaal posted:OOCC seems to be posting totally reasonable stuff, which is not hyperbolic or objectionable. They're equating reasonable concerns about waning vaccine efficacy with anti-vax bullshit. No one here discussing the effects of waning efficacy are advocating for people not to get vaxxed and have in fact been strongly encouraging people to get vaxxed and boosted when appropriate. And OOCC continues to obnoxiously misrepresent the things other posters are saying in the process. And furthermore, almost every post they've made since being un-threadbanned has been attacking other posters or making snide insinuations about them.
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Nov 21, 2021 23:31
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Professor Beetus posted:They're equating reasonable concerns about waning vaccine efficacy with anti-vax bullshit. No one here discussing the effects of waning efficacy are advocating for people not to get vaxxed and have in fact been strongly encouraging people to get vaxxed and boosted when appropriate. And OOCC continues to obnoxiously misrepresent the things other posters are saying in the process. I do not understand the argument against boosting at all. Waning efficacy is pretty well established, especially against infection, in all demographics. We knew this was very likely with a coronavirus vaccine from the start, it's unsurprising to see it now. Safety, restoration of efficacy including against symptomatic infection, etc. are all thoroughly proven in both studies and at population scale. Some degree of enhanced protection from infection at all seems likely. What's the argument against boosting, that's not just an argument against posters or a c-spam strawman or whatever?
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Nov 21, 2021 23:47
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There is no argument against the booster being effective. It's even possible that it's actually a three-dose regime.
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Nov 21, 2021 23:58
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Wang Commander posted:I do not understand the argument against boosting at all. Waning efficacy is pretty well established, especially against infection, in all demographics. We knew this was very likely with a coronavirus vaccine from the start, it's unsurprising to see it now. Safety, restoration of efficacy including against symptomatic infection, etc. are all thoroughly proven in both studies and at population scale. Some degree of enhanced protection from infection at all seems likely. What's the argument against boosting, that's not just an argument against posters or a c-spam strawman or whatever? I don't think a single person has argued against boosters. I have at times argued against vaccine misinformation that people spuriously give as incorrect reasons to get boosters. Without arguing that the booster themselves are wrong. The guy upthread saying he won't take vaccines because they wear off after 3 months is wrong and so is the guy bragging he's taken 4 or more doses of vaccine with no condition requiring that because they believe the vaccine runs out after 3 months are both wrong. I don't think anyone has said 'never take boosters when medically indicated". Boosters themselves are good. Vaccine misinformation is bad.
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Nov 21, 2021 23:59
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It's almost 2022 and I still have people using plastic bags to touch the touchscreens at my store while not wearing masks. Like... how do you miss literally all the knowledge we've gained since summer 2020. It's just constantly baffles me that there are people that obviously care about the fact that there is a pandemic, but take the exact wrong steps to stay safe
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Nov 22, 2021 00:09
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The people saying vaccine efficacy is nearing 0 after 3 months are referring to sterilizing immunity, where Covid doesn’t infect the vaccinated or spread, and are generally advocates of zero Covid. Others get worked up about this because they don’t want zero Covid, they want brunch. And getting 2 shots will provide enough protection against death that they don’t need or care about constant boosters, they just want everyone to get 2 doses so we can return to “normal” and not worry actively about Covid. It’s the same reason anti maskers get angry over others wearing masks. Because it’s a reminder that there is an active airborne pandemic. Masks=Covid exists Boosters=Covid exists Covid tests=covid exists Covid as cause of death on my fathers death certificate=covid exists It all stems from the same place. There’s a spectrum here of how much you’re willing to admit Covid is a problem, but the Ghandi “we don’t need boosters” crowd is simply Ostriching their head in the sand so they can pretend everything is ok and rewarding their “I did everything right for a year so this is over” mentality.
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Nov 22, 2021 00:36
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nexous posted:The people saying vaccine efficacy is nearing 0 after 3 months are referring to sterilizing immunity, Yeah, and that is not factually true. It’s a bit of misinformation that gets repeated as if it is true.
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Nov 22, 2021 00:49
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FWIW I don't think there is really an anti-booater contingent here and it'd be nice if we didn't talk past each other all the time. I think contrary to the way it's been framed by some posters, people talking about waning vaccine efficacy are mostly concerned by the fact that it makes spreading Covid easier, and spreading Covid is still a bad thing that even vaccinated and boosted people should try to avoid. It's why I'm getting my booster on Tuesday and continue to wear N95/KN94 masks when grocery shopping or running other errands. I've seen some extreme views in other threads that I don't necessarily agree with, but for the most part posters here seem pretty much on the same page. Yes I know there are other threads where people talk poo poo and vent, no I don't care, and I'd prefer to see people respond to others based on what they're posting here.
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Nov 22, 2021 00:50
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, and that is not factually true. It’s a bit of misinformation that gets repeated as if it is true. Yes, iirc it's something like 95% to 74%, barring J and J.
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Nov 22, 2021 00:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, and that is not factually true. It’s a bit of misinformation that gets repeated as if it is true. Are you saying sterilizing immunity lasts more or less than 3 months? Do you have a source? I would genuinely like to know the facts. Edit: I absolutely do not know when sterilizing immunity ends, so I’m not saying the 3 month number is right or wrong. But I would like to know considering I’m getting married in 2 weeks and I’d love to be reassured that I’m mostly safe after my booster in October. nexous fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 00:53
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nexous posted:The people saying vaccine efficacy is nearing 0 after 3 months are referring to sterilizing immunity, where Covid doesn’t infect the vaccinated or spread, and are generally advocates of zero Covid. I recall exactly one poster itt "wanting brunch" who posted about basically being back to normal and how great it was, you've kind of built a strawman here of people who don't want to hear about boosters because it's a reminder there's an ongoing pandemic. Zero COVID is part of the conversation, but my impression from this thread is there are a number of posters who want sterilizing immunity from vaccines for their own personal protection because they're concerned about long COVID. It's perfectly reasonable to want to avoid infection at all costs imo but not everyone has the same personal risk assessment. Take our Aus/NZ posters who've posted about great improvements in their mental health as they're able to resume some limited social functions after 200+ days of strict lockdown. They've made the personal risk assessment that with vaccination and reasonable precautions, it's worth it to assume a small risk of infection to attend some social events. I seriously don't think there's anyone itt who wants to bury their heads in the sand and forget the pandemic continues. In the real world that's largely a right-wing perspective in my experience. The two options aren't "zero COVID" and "pretend it doesn't exist, brunch" edit: It's also possible that the vaccines are actually a three-shot regiment and you might get good protection from infection for longer than a few months after your third shot. We don't know yet.
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Nov 22, 2021 00:58
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Yeah thanks Fritz, that's essentially what I was trying to say in my last post. I came down a little hard on oocc about it today but it's frankly a problem with other posters as well, and it's what I mean by responding to what posters are actually saying, and not the worst assumptions that you're making up in your head.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:03
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My comments about brunch and burying their heads in the sand vs zero Covid aren’t aimed at anyone in this thread in particular. As I said it’s a spectrum, and that seems like the two extremes. I have absolutely seen people on both ends of the extreme on this forum and IRL. I don’t think either extreme is right and am more than willing to adjust my beliefs based on evidence.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:05
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Fritz the Horse posted:Take our Aus/NZ posters who've posted about great improvements in their mental health as they're able to resume some limited social functions after 200+ days of strict lockdown. They've made the personal risk assessment that with vaccination and reasonable precautions, it's worth it to assume a small risk of infection to attend some social events. Mind you, while it's better than lockdown, it's still an adjustment from the binary state we spent all pandemic in where you were either in state-imposed lockdown (and thus pretty much perfectly safe if you were WFH) or not in lockdown but in a state of zero-COVID and thus also perfectly safe. The world of constant personal risk assessment loving sucks and other people seem to think so too. If I didn't have an immunocompromised partner I would have completely thrown caution to the wind by now and accepted that we'll all be getting it one day so we may as well do whatever we want right now. (Of course YMMV if you live in a place where unvaccinated CHUDs are already blowing the health system out again.) nexous posted:Are you saying sterilizing immunity lasts more or less than 3 months? Do you have a source? I would genuinely like to know the facts. If you've just had a booster then you're about as safe as you'll ever be: https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/uk-study-shows-surging-efficacy-after-covid-19-boo "The study suggests that two weeks after a booster dose the protection against symptomatic infection in that age group stood at 93.1% for those who had AstraZeneca as their primary vaccination course. It was marginally higher at 94% for those who had previously received the Pfizer vaccine."
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Nov 22, 2021 01:24
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nexous posted:Are you saying sterilizing immunity lasts more or less than 3 months? Do you have a source? I would genuinely like to know the facts. There have been a bunch of studies about waning that have shown six month efficiency decreasing as much as a drop from 95% to 45% or as little as only to 70% However outside a study, the proof in the pudding answer is CDC case rates split by age and vaccination status. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status  vaccinated people remain extremely less likely to get covid. Whatever antibody waning is showing up very little in real world case counts. It seems unclear how much the rise in august is even due to waning protection since it seems to just be following the overall trend and reverses as the trend peaks and reduces. but there probably is some real actual loss of protection and that is why boosters do exist. (if you flip the stat on that page from cases to deaths all the under 65 categories drop below 1 in 100,000 and can't even display correctly on the graph, vaccinated deaths have remained so low over time in younger individuals) The vaccine is really good, boosters are a good bolster to an already good set of protections and a real need for people who are in some way immunocompromised, but worries about like, loss of all protection after your third shot in less than a month just does not jive with real life case data at all.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:30
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:It's almost 2022 and I still have people using plastic bags to touch the touchscreens at my store while not wearing masks. Like... how do you miss literally all the knowledge we've gained since summer 2020. It's just constantly baffles me that there are people that obviously care about the fact that there is a pandemic, but take the exact wrong steps to stay safe I have zero evidence to support this (maybe campaigns against long-established vaccine policies?) but I feel the US population has, instead of learning from this experience, somehow unlearned things they used to know. I have no idea how that could be possible, but my heart and my best intentions tell me that’s true.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:36
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:There have been a bunch of studies about waning that have shown six month efficiency decreasing as much as a drop from 95% to 45% or as little as only to 70% This is a very good post and I appreciate it. It does a lot to explain your points and beliefs and I can see why you are getting fed up with perceived anti vax posters. I am certainly guilty of posting at strawmen and assumed positions, but I think you might be as well. But I’m glad you’re here to share your take and change my mind, and reassure me that everything isn’t doom and gloom.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:42
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mawarannahr posted:I have zero evidence to support this (maybe campaigns against long-established vaccine policies?) but I feel the US population has, instead of learning from this experience, somehow unlearned things they used to know. I have no idea how that could be possible, but my heart and my best intentions tell me that’s true. I expect lower childhood vaccinations, lower adult boosters, etc for all vaccines in the near future, not just the covid ones. I hope to be proven wrong, if anyone has any studies showing otherwise I'd love to see them.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:47
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For those who aren't tired of my silly spam, Covid Simulator ver 12 is up! next few weeks promise to be more accessibility oriented than anything, you got. Lots of UI adjustments here -The options screen is now way more organized ,and clearer - Added two stat bars instead of one - current, and cumulative stats. They can be hidden as well! -Made the clock/day aspect of the UI nicer. -added a more positive "click" effect when you click buttons It's free to download at https://coldrice.itch.io/covid-simulator My twitter: https://twitter.com/ColdRice_Dev
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Nov 22, 2021 01:52
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nexous posted:Others get worked up about this because they don’t want zero Covid, they want brunch. And getting 2 shots will provide enough protection against death that they don’t need or care about constant boosters, they just want everyone to get 2 doses so we can return to “normal” and not worry actively about Covid. Related to this, I think a lot of stress comes from the strange belief that vaccines would mean the end of everything by December, when it's been known for ages that this was always going to take years to resolve, even with a non-waning vaccine. I would actually liken this to an almost capitalistic craving of short-term results. Too bad the results in this case are of actual importance.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:59
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:It's almost 2022 and I still have people using plastic bags to touch the touchscreens at my store while not wearing masks. Like... how do you miss literally all the knowledge we've gained since summer 2020. It's just constantly baffles me that there are people that obviously care about the fact that there is a pandemic, but take the exact wrong steps to stay safe Do they actually care about the pandemic or just think it's gross to touch things a lot of other people have touched? I've met a lot of people like that prior to the pandemic
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Nov 22, 2021 02:00
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nexous posted:This is a very good post and I appreciate it. It does a lot to explain your points and beliefs and I can see why you are getting fed up with perceived anti vax posters. I am certainly guilty of posting at strawmen and assumed positions, but I think you might be as well. But I’m glad you’re here to share your take and change my mind, and reassure me that everything isn’t doom and gloom. It's frustration that so many antivaxxer narratives seep into otherwise pro vaccine people's vocabularies. Like the 3 month thing has come up a bunch of times in this thread and never really gets called out. A lot of elements of a counterfactual narrative of an ineffective, poor quality vaccine seem to have taken effective root beyond the traditionally antivaxx communities pushing that narrative. When real world data about the vaccine just does not show a lot of it. Like a lot of campaigns to sew doubt about vaccines seem to have been successful in even groups of people who still overall see the vaccines as worth taking and it's a kind of general weakening of trust that sucks. I wish people would speak up more when even pro vaccine people start saying misinformation.
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Nov 22, 2021 02:43
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Anecdotal but my household is 2/2 in vaccinated adults getting covid 6 months and 7 months post Pfizer.
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Nov 22, 2021 02:48
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:Setting aside the reasons for it, wanting everybody (literally everybody) to get two doses is a good stance to take. People should get a booster if it's being offered, but I'm cautious about if it will immediately improve the situation because most of the people dying aren't going to be getting them anyway. At the moment a booster is mostly about protecting yourself from infection. Hopefully it actually turns out to be a three-dose regime but this same problem will still exist without robust sterilisation. Second—there are hundreds of fully vaccinated people dying daily and some people in this thread’s unwillingness to acknowledge that and paint this as a “Pandemic of the Unvaccinated” is truly frustrating. This doesn’t mean “vaccines don’t work” or “vaccine efficacy drops to 0.” It means the pandemic isn’t loving over after just two shots. It’s not a “Pandemic of the Unvaccinated.” That’s it.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:00
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I know that's why I wrote "Setting aside reasons", I'm specifically addressing the point of wanting everybody to be double-vaxxed.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:11
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Gio posted:
Are there?
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Nov 22, 2021 03:14
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I hate when someone says "$something is 5x times less likely than $somethingelse" because most people can't picture how a multiple results in less of something and it's awkward as gently caress to make sense of. Maybe my brain just sucks
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Nov 22, 2021 03:32
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brugroffil posted:Anecdotal but my household is 2/2 in vaccinated adults getting covid 6 months and 7 months post Pfizer. Yeah the Delta waves in high vaxx countries certainly agree with you though I think CFR has been a bit lower than low vaxx countries which is certainly progress.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Are there? Most state and county dashboards are tracking about 20-40% of deaths as fully vaccinated, for example King County, WA: https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx (42%). We're averaging about 1200 deaths a day in the US (but shooting up fast), so let's say about 30% of that is 360 deaths that are vaccinated people.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:39
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Are there? Not quite. Probably. The page you posted shows, in the most recent week for which data is available, a fully vaccinated death rate of 0.74 per hundred thousand. Per week. To reach plural hundreds, i.e. two hundred deaths per day, the fully‐vaccinated population would have to be more than one hundred and eighty‐nine million. As of this writing, it exceeds that figure, but only by seven million. Certainly in the week ending September fourth, there were not that many vaccinated persons. Case numbers are lower now in general, so it is unlikely that the number of vaccinated persons dying reaches two hundred on any given day.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:40
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mod sassinator posted:(but shooting up fast) ..... is it? 
Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 04:11
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Revisit that chart in a month or so I reckon.
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Nov 22, 2021 04:20
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