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etalian posted:Imagine how much easier Geralt's job would be if he had guns I mean, Witchers already kind of gimp themselves by insisting on using a different sword to fight people than the special one they have to fight monsters. So I wouldn't be surprised if, even when using guns, Geralt made things more awkward than it would seem like they should be in some way.
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Nov 22, 2021 16:07
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 21:15 |
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Spike wont even die pointlessly at the end of this one. At the end of this series spike will move on from his past. Yes, it defies all logic to do that in a bebop adaptation but this is the world we live in.
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Nov 22, 2021 16:12
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All I have to say is whatever brain genius saw the Teddy Bomber/ Cowboy Andy episode and thought everyone loved it for the loving Teddy Bomber is an incorrect edgelord who seems to be in charge of the writing. I was really really trying to give this a chance but it's just so bad. Whoever created this largely didn't understand what made the original work.
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Nov 22, 2021 17:06
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After finishing this I would say its an alright show if you divorce it from the anime. The problem is the anime was a masterpiece and since the live action is using the name comparisons will be made. There was very little "space" in this show about "space." I'm pretty sure we only see ships firing twice. Once in the first episode and once in the last. It just seemed really cheap throughout, like they had half the budget they needed. If someone had never seen the anime I would recommend this. If they had seen the anime I would still suggest this show but I would give them ample warning that it is very much "not the anime."
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Nov 22, 2021 17:21
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cowboy bebop was a watchable anime but the problem is that being a watchable anime is enough to classify you as a masterpiece in comparison to all the garbage out there because most animes are not only difficult to watch, you have to actually convince yourself you are enjoying them
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Nov 22, 2021 17:37
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limp_cheese posted:After finishing this I would say its an alright show if you divorce it from the anime. The problem is the anime was a masterpiece and since the live action is using the name comparisons will be made. Basically, a team of 3 oddball characters have adventures meeting other weirdos paired with some edgy/gross humor and over-the-top cartoonish style. If they had said the same production team was behind this, I would have believed it. This seems to have a higher budget though, so thankfully we aren't just stuck in the same boring looking town each season like Preacher. There are a lot more extras and locations/unique sets onscreen. I'm liking it, and as you said, just separate it from the anime in your mind because it's definitely its own thing.
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Nov 22, 2021 17:44
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JollyBoyJohn posted:cowboy bebop was a watchable anime but the problem is that being a watchable anime is enough to classify you as a masterpiece in comparison to all the garbage out there because most animes are not only difficult to watch, you have to actually convince yourself you are enjoying them This is the same with all media though.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:06
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DoomTrainPhD posted:This is the same with all media though. yeah true, cream rises to the top though and thats why bebop has such a strong name amongst fans, its just funny to me that people are attacking this live action adaption because it taints the themes and ideas of the original, a masterpiece in a class of one. like did people want The Ghost in the Shell adaption instead? A boring rear end anime adapted into a somehow even more chronically boring film (I only watched for the ScarJo). God that film was awful.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:12
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The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Cowboy Bebop: Fart-poo poo-Fart
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Nov 22, 2021 18:14
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Cowboy Bebop, the anime, started life with Bandai going "we need a show that will sell spaceship toys." and gave the project to some new director who did another space show that did well enough and sold a bunch of robot toys. With the only rules being 1) it has lots of spaceships and 2) it sells toys of those spaceships. People need to remember that. It was always meant to be nothing more than a cash grab for toy sales, Bandai didn't care if the show was good, or if the show sold DVDs, or became anything that anyone remembered. After it became clear that Watanabe's idea for the show would never work for selling kid's toys, they backed out however and it languished in development hell for awhile. Anyone who's familiar with Cowboy Bebop knows the rest. When it comes to the netflix adaptation I'm disappointed because I wanted a different show, and that's fine. What I think of when it comes to Cowboy Bebop is different from what others take from it. I remember the somber tones and personal stories more than the goofy poo poo and space battles. Everyone takes something different from the media they watch. Bandai expected the equivalent of early Transformers, with a new ship every week to make a toy of. What they got was an over the top, goofy, violent, neo-noir crime show...with some spaceships.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:22
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Darko posted:Yeah, but that's literally not what he is in this show though. At this point, I'm not sure people have watched the show. Vicious is basically an entirely different character in this. So is Julia. Both characters are majorly different. if ur talking ab spike, he was turned into a way more boring and generic character. if ur talking ab vicious, him being turned into an even bigger poser that is straight up a goofball should be the reason for the exact opposite of 10 times the screentime he had in the anime. ur right, tho, i absolutely did not watch this show  the trailers, clips and recaps are more than enough for me to tell it sucks balls
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Nov 22, 2021 18:35
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JollyBoyJohn posted:yeah true, cream rises to the top though and thats why bebop has such a strong name amongst fans, its just funny to me that people are attacking this live action adaption because it taints the themes and ideas of the original, a masterpiece in a class of one. I mean I think they wanted something good, which this show wasn't. I think it's just that simple.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:35
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Mulva posted:I mean I think they wanted something good, which this show wasn't. I think it's just that simple. It's this for gently caress's sake. Everyone keeps defining this poo poo by their shadowboxing matches with "anime nerds" or whatever the gently caress. This is garbage on its own merits, and it's fine if you like garbage. Jesus christ.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:49
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Turning this into a culture war thing is the most pathetic poo poo possible. Grown rear end adults inventing epic MRA PUA chuds to get mad at. Get real.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:50
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JazzFlight posted:After watching 3 episodes, it really feels like the Preacher TV show (which I enjoyed on the whole, although I haven't watched the final season). Watch the final season.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:53
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JollyBoyJohn posted:cowboy bebop was a watchable anime but the problem is that being a watchable anime is enough to classify you as a masterpiece in comparison to all the garbage out there because most animes are not only difficult to watch, you have to actually convince yourself you are enjoying them
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Nov 22, 2021 19:08
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Martman posted:I'll be honest, I knew the (((they))) thing was associated heavily with specifically anti-Jewish stuff, but I also thought it had come to be used more generally by conspiracy nuts talking about our "media overlords" in very vague ways. My point was to make fun of the conspiracy theory mindset about the people who control our media, not to accuse Woozy of antisemitism. Understandable, but also considerably less funny than when I thought you were just insanely escalating things for no apparent reason.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:35
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JollyBoyJohn posted:cowboy bebop was a watchable anime but the problem is that being a watchable anime is enough to classify you as a masterpiece in comparison to all the garbage out there because most animes are not only difficult to watch, you have to actually convince yourself you are enjoying them JollyBoyJohn posted:yeah true, cream rises to the top though and thats why bebop has such a strong name amongst fans, its just funny to me that people are attacking this live action adaption because it taints the themes and ideas of the original, a masterpiece in a class of one. the classic goon defense of "actually everything sucks and has always sucked"
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Nov 22, 2021 19:43
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Hace posted:the classic goon defense of "actually everything sucks and has always sucked" The ghost in the shell film was pigshit dude
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Nov 22, 2021 20:04
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Well. That was definitely a live-action adaptation of the anime Cowboy Bebop made by Netflix. Got a lot of thoughts but don't really feel like fully getting into it all. I'll sum it up by saying I thought it was a loving, respectful, good intentioned celebration and homage to the original. I think they tried to incorporate too much of a visual style that works best in anime here and there, and it definitely fell flat there. So in some respects it feels like it's just trying too hard to be the original. And then I also felt like most of the new elements and tweaks were weak at best. This wasn't helped by how I got first-take vibes from SO MUCH of the entire series. They handled the Spike/Vicious/Julia triangle exactly as poorly as I expected. Tried putting on too much meat without enough skeleton. Thought it entirely ruined any emotion I associated with Spike's subplot, despite them trying to make it mean more. I definitely preferred it vague. Casting was good overall, though, as were most of the sets, and the ship CGi was good, even if nothing top-notch or anything. I didn't hate it. My nostalgia and the stuff i thought they handled well sorta levels out with my complaints about the writing, execution and quality, so yeah Here's a question I had: It's been a while since I've watched the anime, I'm pretty sure in it, Ein was just a "data dog," and as such was even more intelligent than an ever age corgi, right? He wasn't a hackable cyborg dog with holo-projector eyes before, right?? Right?! Like wtf was that Terra-da-loo! fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 20:30
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Yeah, it never quite hits what makes Cowboy Bebop iconic, but it's entertaining enough if you're a fan. I genuinely liked the "But seriously, who was the Cosmonaut?" "Welcome to the Bebop" and Faye's little smirk at the end of episode 4.
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Nov 22, 2021 20:35
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MadJackal posted:Yeah, it never quite hits what makes Cowboy Bebop iconic, but it's entertaining enough if you're a fan. I genuinely liked the "But seriously, who was the Cosmonaut?" "Welcome to the Bebop" and Faye's little smirk at the end of episode 4. Yeah, some stuff like that was nice. And I liked the decision to show them bowling before encountering Pierrot. Stuff like that endeared the cast and the crew's dynamic and chemistry to me, and was nice. Even though I'm pretty critical of it, it wasn't out-and-out bad at all, imo
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Nov 22, 2021 20:39
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Terra-da-loo! posted:
Generally yes. It was never fully explained in the show though and honestly after his intro episode Ein was at best just a normal dog. We'd see a few things here and there to reference back to the fact that he's supposed to be super smart (for a dog) but beyond moving one of Jet's pieces in Shogi to a better position or trying to get the Character's attention towards something they were missing, it never amounted to anything. Ein was a good boy and didn't need to be anything more.
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Nov 22, 2021 20:54
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Crain posted:Generally yes. It was never fully explained in the show though and honestly after his intro episode Ein was at best just a normal dog. We'd see a few things here and there to reference back to the fact that he's supposed to be super smart (for a dog) but beyond moving one of Jet's pieces in Shogi to a better position or trying to get the Character's attention towards something they were missing, it never amounted to anything. brain scratch revealed him to be a way better hacker than Ed, but brain scratch was a bit weird in general he also speaks fluent cow
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Nov 22, 2021 20:56
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Endorph posted:why do people keep bringing up 'teenage memories' and 'fanboys.' i dont even like bebop i think its insanely overrated and mostly got big because nobody had seen an anime with a gun in it before. the only eps of it i really like are one off comedy ones. this series still sucks rear end. the people making this conversation entirely about comparisons to the original seem to be people trying to defend the netflix series I don't know why anime brings out frothingly enraged arguments on either side. The original is neither overrated weeb trash nor is it unimpeachable high art. It's a good and entertaining show, with a unique tone and style and a very good soundtrack. The characters are mostly stock genre archetypes, but the world-building is cool as hell. I must've liked the Netflix show well enough, because I busted it out over a few days. But it has the exact problem I expected it to have, which is being a cargo cult recreation of the anime with no strong sense of why people liked the original so much. The visual and performance style tries to recreate the source so goddamn literally, it looks and sounds weird as hell in live action. A more subdued take on the setting would've at least felt like its own thing, with way fewer student film moments of John Cho dropping a rose in a puddle and what-not. (Also, loving hell with Radical Edward. That poo poo was uncanny. If this show gets a S2, they need to tone that WAY the hell down.) Killer robot posted:I'm not a big fan of Vicious in the anime and didn't look forward to seeing him getting an expanded part. But if he's going to be treated as a real character rather than a looming figure, it seems this is the kind of character he'd have to be. I hated the actor they picked for Vicious, but turning him into a lovely failson was fine by me. I guess Vicious and Spike had the exact dynamic of Nikolai and Kirill from Eastern Promises...which, sure. I also didn't mind turning Julia into a secret villain at the end, since her role in the original was to be a beautiful object for the men to fight over. I sure wish they'd built that heel-turn up, though. Like, maybe show Julia to be more power-hungry early on, or more genuinely interested in Vicious for his ambition rather than as a woman trapped in a domestic violence situation.)
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Nov 22, 2021 21:31
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Yeah it's just a bizarre bit of nonsense that fails in a way that is typical of productions that don't really "get" the original. All this effort and budget to reproduce the visual style, which is insane because there are piles of evidence indicating this is impossible to do with anime (and at that point why even do an adaptation?) but also there's just no payoff at all. The show looks like poo poo and the absurd casting and wardrobe decisions guarantee that no amount of time and money will produce something that looks, even in passing, like the original. As always with Netflix stuff, I just can't figure out who its for. What remains of the original fanbase seemed to be totally against any kind of live-action adaptation, which checks out because why would someone who actually likes animation want to watch a shittier rendition of something they've already seen? The whole point of animation is presumably that you can these kinds of impossibly idealized stories and characters relatively cheap with a distinct and reliably appealing visual style. But okay, let's assume there's some kind of novelty appeal in live action that I'm personally not seeing, there's still just no excuse at all for failing to capture the tone and theme of the original and it would appear that no one involved in the project even bothered to try. This is the easiest part of the whole production and the creators can't even be said to have punted. They just outright didn't do it. Plenty of the dumbest people in the world predicted that this was going to be awful so how does this obvious truth manage to escape uh, everyone, who had any say in the final product?
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Nov 22, 2021 21:49
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Woozy posted:the absurd casting and wardrobe decisions I'm sorry, what?
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Nov 22, 2021 22:03
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A few episodes in and I figured out why I'm enjoying this, and why I can separate it from the original: They cover the same ground (sometimes to a fault), but the tone is different. This replaces the anime's cool noir style (which I don't think you can replicate) with weird campy energy. I get how that could put people off, but if you like that sort of thing, this hits the right notes. Earlier in the thread I compared it to The Witcher, which I think is a more appropriate comparison the more I watch of this. Witcher took grimdark edgy source material and leaned hard into goofy, almost Evil Dead-style camp. Cowboy Bebop kind of does the same thing, except where Witcher's camp comes from stuff like Xena, Bebop feels like the camp you get from 70s exploitation flicks. I dig it. Woozy posted:Yeah it's just a bizarre bit of nonsense that fails in a way that is typical of productions that don't really "get" the original. All this effort and budget to reproduce the visual style, which is insane because there are piles of evidence indicating this is impossible to do with anime
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Nov 22, 2021 22:13
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No Wave posted:Spike wont even die pointlessly at the end of this one. At the end of this series spike will move on from his past. Yes, it defies all logic to do that in a bebop adaptation but this is the world we live in. Wasn’t the point of the brain scratch episode that he can’t and won’t let go of the past? I’m not sure they’re going to make this mistake. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 22:14
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sticklefifer posted:A few episodes in and I figured out why I'm enjoying this, and why I can separate it from the original: They cover the same ground (sometimes to a fault), but the tone is different. This replaces the anime's cool noir style (which I don't think you can replicate) with weird campy energy. I get how that could put people off, but if you like that sort of thing, this hits the right notes. I agree, I think that's why I compared it to something a hosed up Tarantino would make. Looking forward to the true blood-esque version of live action Hellsing; not even joking.
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Nov 22, 2021 22:23
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MiddleOne posted:I'm sorry, what? Everyone is too old and they all look like cosplayers.
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Nov 22, 2021 23:00
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sticklefifer posted:If you don't think you can accurately pull off anime in film, watch Prisoners of the Ghostland. If you can look past Nic Cage hamming it up as only he can, the cinematography is pure anime. I'll check it out. Thanks!
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Nov 22, 2021 23:01
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I'm sad they turned the tedabomber into a furry and cut out all the CAPITALISM IS BAD notes, but also it's Netflix so vov
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Nov 22, 2021 23:43
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tokin opposition posted:I'm sad they turned the tedabomber into a furry and cut out all the CAPITALISM IS BAD notes, but also it's Netflix so vov At least in this version someone actually wanted to know why he blew up buildings. It just turns out its all insane conspiracy nonsense. I did like a few of the storylines in this show. Faye and Spike teaming up was a great B plot that I'm surprised wasn't in the anime. Faye and Whitney was also a good subversion. The long runtime did allow them to do some fun character building poo poo with the team just talking to each other about poo poo. I understand why the Pierot story was going to be disappointing just because there is no way to do him justice without a crazy budget. I also didn't like how they did Karim. It was just a mixed bag for me.
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Nov 23, 2021 01:03
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tokin opposition posted:I'm sad they turned the tedabomber into a furry and cut out all the CAPITALISM IS BAD notes, but also it's Netflix so vov Only watched two episodes but yes quite a few references to the economic plight of the characters were already removed. Economic anxiety is a recurring theme in the original show, it's interesting how completely it's been excised. For anyone who doesn't remember, in the original, the teddy bomber was based off the unabomber (teddy -> theodore) and had similar motivations. Netflix changed that into a quasi-religious one. Meanwhile the murderous and deranged anti-corporate shpiel the robber gives in episode one was original to the netflix. Was the original teddybomber considered too sympathetic a portrayal of a real life mass murderer? Given all the other changes removing references to the future economy, it's peculiar that they made the first villain to appear a particularly grotesque caricature of anti-capitalist sensibilities. That opening scene, which is a nearly beat for beat remake of the opening scene of the movie, plays out very differently when watching. In the original, the robber lost his job due to "corporate restructuring and layoffs", as opposed to stabbing his boss. The robber sees his forced change in profession from working in security to armed robber as a bitter irony, "laugh! it's not funny!". He's a sort premonition of the modern joker. In the movie the robber actually goes on a bizarre rant about stew-mix and not about murder. As that scene is meant to serve as an introduction for new viewers, that rant I think is a meta reference to the eclectic composition of the series. There's no essential element to Cowboy Bebop, but it was a unique mixture of noir, jazz, martial arts, comedy, surrealism and references to Western culture. The new series is most definitely not that, it is a different dish entirely. Also Spike and Jet don't kill any of the robbers in the film version of this scene. There's a lot of violence in the original but I don't recall there being quite so causal a brutality to the characters. I found it off-putting. A few more examples of removing economic anxiety: -Spike and Jet eat bell peppers but there's no mention of the (lack of money for) beef. -The old men playing cards don't bemoan their economic situation, "we worked like there was no tomorrow and what do we have to show for it". -In the original Katerina is implicitly poor and dreams of a better life for herself, but in the new series she's running from her wealthy father. -Instead of saying to Katerina that Mars is a great place if you're rich, Spike tells her it's never too late to start over (a complete reversal of his characterization in the original, where he frequently describes himself as a dead man suck in the past!). -I haven't watched ahead but I think I heard this version of Faye is not running from usurious medical debt limp_cheese posted:At least in this version someone actually wanted to know why he blew up buildings. I thought that was a hilarious gag from one of the funniest episodes of the series. Andy was a great character and his absence reflects poorly on the new show. Maybe a horse wasn't in the budget?
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Nov 23, 2021 01:12
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Sinding Johansson posted:Only watched two episodes but yes quite a few references to the economic plight of the characters were already removed. Economic anxiety is a recurring theme in the original show, it's interesting how completely it's been excised. They don't totally excise economic anxiety. The show is still pretty explicit about how almost everyone (save a small sliver of the hyper-rich) struggles to get by, and almost no one lives comfortably. Jet still barely keeps the Bebop flying, and scrounges for used parts because he can't buy anything new. Spike is still perpetually broke, though Faye's story is different (she's implied to have come from some money, to have had some kind of inheritance or trust to her name that was conned out of her, vs. the system simply being ravenous and corrupt.) Woozy posted:Everyone is too old and they all look like cosplayers. I thought Mustafa Shakir was pretty spot-on, to be honest. Faye was written super weirdly, as a kind of quippy audience surrogate who also came off as a sullen teenager, but none of that's Daniella Pineda's fault and she definitely didn't seem "too old." I did feel that way about Cho, though...I love John Cho, and he looks great for 50, but he still came off as way older than Spike. The Vicious casting was...I don't know, but his age definitely wasn't what I was reacting to. By a wide margin, the worst part of the show for me.
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Nov 23, 2021 01:52
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I think the cast of always sunny would have been great in cowboy bepop. Dee would be the ideal Faye.
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Nov 23, 2021 02:15
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I think the casting for Jet and Faye is perfect. Shame about… everything else.
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Nov 23, 2021 02:18
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Mordiceius posted:I think the casting for Jet and Faye is perfect. Shame about… everything else. 
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Nov 23, 2021 02:21
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Just finished the series. Loved the main characters. Good choices, including the best doggo Ein. Great cases of the week episodes. Top 3 were Ecoterrorists, Crooked cop and Fayes mom episodes. 'Main plot' involving Vicious and Julia was mostly crap, but I didn't like that stuff from the original series either. That made last 2 episodes really bad, because they were all main plot, no fun stuff. Teaser part for the next season was bit mixed, because ED is an annoying little twerp, but that's faithful to the source material. For season 2, more episodic cases, less main plot and more Ein. 
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Nov 23, 2021 03:06
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