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e: hosed an edit/quote, see below.
Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 17:24
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Grondoth posted:There's lots of ways to expand your secondary capacity, to the point where it can get to simply absurd heights. There's a dang doubler in there! I'm betting they're gonna have to nerf parts of the punching path, cause the dude is just too much of a mixture of damage and defense when you get up there. Being at your most powerful while you're blocking all attacks from the front and having ways to extend that state by effectively doing damage is just too much. I think his shield shouldn't give you 100% invulnerability, that's boring. Reduce it to 95% DR, and that small 5% of damage that you still get will make people think more what path to take to attack, instead of blindingly pressing W. He can get pretty brainless imo.
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Nov 21, 2021 17:29
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Turin Turambar posted:I think his shield shouldn't give you 100% invulnerability, that's boring. Reduce it to 95% DR, and that small 5% of damage that you still get will make people think more what path to take to attack, instead of blindingly pressing W. He can get pretty brainless imo. believe it or not, I bet they played with the idea of that but once you start getting to Reincarnation things start to do enough damage that enemies would probably just straight up mulch you even through 95% DR. The bigger issue is that with Aspis up Turtle has some pretty insane mobility with Hurtle, and with even one ascension or one of a handful of occult scrolls you can spam it to close gap infinitely. I'd say it's that insane mobility + the insane damage you can get that makes it so nuts, as even with the 100% block shield you still need to respect exposing your back to enemies. I have died a number of times to Hurtling myself into groups of enemies and one of the genuinely dangerous enemies getting to smack me while my back is turned to it. One could argue I'm being extremely reckless and could simply go front to back while keep my shield pointed towards all the enemies and you'd be right. But that isn't as fun. 
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Nov 21, 2021 17:39
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Yeah, I'd rather not take away the full damage block. He IS a turtle, after all. I just think there's some interactions in the punch path that make it too much, it's honestly the best place to get stuff that extends your shield time too! That's not right.
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Nov 21, 2021 17:43
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gently caress the Wind God. Absolute rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 21, 2021 18:30
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Does anybody still take the +health/max shield gold chests now that it's a cursed scroll instead of damage? Cursed scrolls just seem so bad.
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Nov 21, 2021 18:48
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WarpedLichen posted:Does anybody still take the +health/max shield gold chests now that it's a cursed scroll instead of damage? It seems somewhat common to get the scroll that makes you immune to cursed scrolls. Also there are other scrolls that give you pretty decent benefits for having cursed scrolls (X% additional damage per cursed scroll, etc).
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Nov 21, 2021 18:53
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WarpedLichen posted:Does anybody still take the +health/max shield gold chests now that it's a cursed scroll instead of damage? Sounds you've been getting unlucky, all my +max health/shield has been either money or health cost. I think I've seen maybe one that cost a curse scroll? I personally don't mind taking 1 curse scroll without Evil Banishing talisman, and there have even been a number of new Peculiar chest options that give compelling choices for the price of taking a Curse scroll. If you have Evil Devouring Sword it can also be very worth it, +15% weapon and +20% skill damage per curse scroll isn't something to sneeze at now after all the buffs. Of course if you have Evil Banishing Talisman I will slam pick anything that'll cost a curse scroll, though I'm more likely to pick up EBT if I already have a curse scroll on me compared to some other choices.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:11
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Evil Kit posted:Sounds you've been getting unlucky, all my +max health/shield has been either money or health cost. I think I've seen maybe one that cost a curse scroll? +% weapon damage isn't really "THAT" good because it's additive with your other +% damage sources whereas all the cursed scrolls downsides will reduce your damage in a multiplicative fashion. Basically the ok ones are maybe ones like No Discount because you get a ton of money and upgrades are the only thing you really dump money into. You get +25% damage from talents alone and that usually ramps up through the game from ascensions and guns (let's assume something like 100%), so it's like (125 + 15 * x) per cursed scroll whereas the downside for something like broken gun is a flat -15% so the end formula looks like: (125 + 15 * X) * (1 - 15 * X) = 119 which is worse than the 125 baseline. Now broken gun is the worst of the lot but the mag decrease, sabatoged mag, or elemental curse are also really bad. I feel like I would never take a cursed scroll unless I had evil banishing talisman already. This poses an interesting counterpoint where if you're going full skill damage curses are way less scary cause who cares because clumsy throw isn't really that threatening.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:33
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finally got my first win  well, against Yoruhime-Maru, anyway.So question about that fight, in the second half what does one do to not take damage from the massive gently caress-off slow mortar shot? If there was ever an indicator, I didn't see it
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Nov 21, 2021 19:41
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Ciaphas posted:finally got my first win I think it's possible to hide in a corner but I think you're supposed to shoot it down before it explodes.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:43
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WarpedLichen posted:+% weapon damage isn't really "THAT" good because it's additive with your other +% damage sources whereas all the cursed scrolls downsides will reduce your damage in a multiplicative fashion. Basically the ok ones are maybe ones like No Discount because you get a ton of money and upgrades are the only thing you really dump money into. I've never bothered with the math, I'm more of a game feel person but tbh I usually prefer Skill damage builds because of my preferred hero choices (Bird, Bunny, now Turtle) with Bunny being the only exception usually since she's more reliant on her main weapon for primary dps. +% weapon damage being additive not being as insane a bonus as the negatives of curse scrolls is fair, but you gotta kind kinda unlucky to pull one of the nastier curse scrolls. I'm willing to gamble on one curse scroll early simply cause the thing I get might help make the run. Ciaphas posted:finally got my first win grats! It's always a good feeling, now do it two more times and have fun with the Abyssal Serpent WarpedLichen posted:I think it's possible to hide in a corner but I think you're supposed to shoot it down before it explodes. I had no idea this was a thing lol. Usually Y-M is dead before it's actually threatening.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:48
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Double posting to say I finally beat Reincarnation 7 again after having beat it once before the update. Went all the way to the Polar Monarch on principle, had a pretty nuts occult scroll combo and corrosion Illusion with the shared elemental gemini inscription. Playing Turtle on R7 I really felt the health inflation and getting a little unlucky on punch ascensions, but the ones I did get still helped immensely in carrying me to the point I got the weapon combo and right scrolls. The fight even took less than 2 minutes so here's it is. If you want to see my weapons I look at them at the start (totally unintentionally). Spoilers for the Act 4 boss I guess if you haven't seen it yet and want to experience it yourself first! https://streamable.com/780gsr DPS check is still a joke, at least solo. Time to die repeatedly to Reincarnation 8!
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Nov 21, 2021 20:22
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Ok, they HAVE to nerf the punch damage of the turtle. It's ridiculous. I'm not especially good at this game, and I'm one hitting enemies that I know are tough for the other classes, enemies that usually changes how you approach them. It nullifies too much of the game: you don't have to aim, you don't need to be careful with your positioning, you don't have to mind elemental dmg types and shield/armors, you don't have to mind weapon ammo, etc. And with a pair of scrolls and a pair of ascensions, you have 20+ punches, so you can play the whole game by punching, which imo is a bit too much in a first person --shooter--. And imo, in addition they should decrease his max shield by 10.
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Nov 21, 2021 20:35
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The max shield amount is fine, the punches need nerfs for sure, or at least needs more investment in the earlier difficulties. I also learned from my runs at beating R7 that Wave Breaking Fist allows you to clear whole levels because if you kill something with a punch it refunds all the uses you spent on it, which is incredibly powerful combined with the other effects of that ascension. Dark Tide is more for big single targets like bosses, and is very helpful on bosses.
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Nov 21, 2021 20:40
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That final boss dps check is stupid. You've already defeated the boss so clearly youve got a good enough team but oops you were 0.5 seconds too slow dpsing the final phase so you fail the game. We've cleared R7 twice now and both times defeated the boss but still failed the run, it's kind of a kick in the balls.
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Nov 21, 2021 22:02
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Even though I haven't run into any issues myself, just imagining how big the shield HP you'd have to chew through with multiple players sounds nuts. 4 player scaling especially would probably make it so you need everyone to have some level of broken build to even pass it. The Polar Monarch is an optional boss but it's still an odd choice to have a literal pass/fail DPS check for an already tough fight.
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Nov 21, 2021 22:53
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Turin Turambar posted:Ok, they HAVE to nerf the punch damage of the turtle. It's ridiculous. I'm not especially good at this game, and I'm one hitting enemies that I know are tough for the other classes, enemies that usually changes how you approach them. I'm not at R7 but I love the thunder tiger because you can turn your primary skill into a buff that makes you shoot chain lightning every half second, then buff the hell out of the damage of that chain lightning and make them extend the buff when they kill something. You press it once and it clears the entire room while you stand in the center. Does that stop working at a certain difficulty level?
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Nov 21, 2021 23:09
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Thanks to Turin Turambar for yeeting the thread at me, didn't think to look, but seeing as I only started playing yesterday with the intent to dabble with a few runs seeing 1.0 launched and I now have 10 more hours played I guess It's loving Got me. I picked the game up in EA like a year ago (I think there were 3 characters out at the time?) and play just a couple of hours in co-op with some buddies, enjoyed it, and promptly didn't play again until yesterday. I know I'd enjoy the game conceptually, I like the genre and the style and overall it seemed well-made in terms of balance, and overall haven't been disappointed. I've tried out 5 of the 6 characters now and hugely gently caress with bunny girl even though I, overall, prefer slower high-damage weapons, but everyone besides the dog dude has been fun. Something about the duel wield just breaks my loving brain and I end up only firing one gun at a time. I've finished the a couple Normal runs and an Elite run and can see getting up to Nightmare pretty quickly--especially once I realized I haven't unlocked any of the damage talents yet--are there any easily overlooked advanced strats that might be useful to know that aren't in the OP? Also, because I love dumb poo poo that happens inevitably in Early Access games, can someone share a story of some dumb balance poo poo that ended up in a live update back before 1.0?
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Nov 22, 2021 00:09
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Maybe it's just a playstyle thing but dang i'm disappointed by lightning sniper cat haven't really given dual wield dog or melee birb much time, having too much fun corroding and exploding stuff with the prince
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Nov 22, 2021 00:11
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Ciaphas posted:Maybe it's just a playstyle thing but dang i'm disappointed by lightning sniper cat Absolutely play the bird, you just rip around and kick the gently caress out of enemies with a massive aoe slam. It is twice as fun if you get the enhancement that gives you stacking damage on kills with his Q. I was doing 50k hits when I cleared my elite run on the last boss and it rips
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Nov 22, 2021 00:17
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Sab Sabbington posted:
Believe it or not but for the most part the devs have always had a solid understanding of the gameplay balance. There were two or three things they had to nerf really hard. The first was a weapon, Glimmrang, the unlockable fire version of the Prism kunai ate multiple nerfs over multiple patches for being too good before I even got to try it. Another thing was probably the single most broken ascension in the game on release, Cat's Hex Smoke grenade. It originally was something nuts at level 3 like enemies deal -90% dmg and take +70% more damage for 20 seconds. Even at level 1 it was still his strongest ascension by far. This was of course before they even added Nightmare, much less Reincarnation. Smoke Grenade build is still imo the strongest build the Prince has. There might be one another thing, but nothing was nearly as memorable (for me) as those two. For the most part though nothing super insane occured, they mostly had to buff stuff up to bring it up to par with the "meta" picks rather than nerf things too much. The most fun Dog build imo is EXPLOSIONS Dog, especially with the Atomic spiritual blessing in Reincarnation mode. Even without it though it's just a generally fun build and you almost don't even need to bother with dual wielding unless you need the healing or extra damage on one weapon. Evil Kit fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 00:56
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Evil Kit posted:Another thing was probably the single most broken ascension in the game on release, Cat's Hex Smoke grenade. It originally was something nuts at level 3 like enemies deal -90% dmg and take +70% more damage for 20 seconds. Even at level 1 it was still his strongest ascension by far. This was of course before they even added Nightmare, much less Reincarnation. Smoke Grenade build is still imo the strongest build the Prince has. I could absolutely tell there was gonna be some history with the Prince's smoke grenade since it starts at a lower count than everyone else's and scales less quantity-wise with enhancements. I guess one of the fun things about having played a lot of vaguely similar games at many points of Early Access over the years is being able to kind of intuit trends based on what poo poo does alone. The smoke grenades felt bad (or maybe just not very fun?) the first time I used them, but I know at this point that probably means there's some insane poo poo you can do that isn't obvious to me at first. I really enjoy how distinct most of the weapons feel at this point, though I find myself predominantly using one weapon at a time for most of the run and rarely swapping to the other. I expect I'll move past that once I have a better grasp of gamefeel and I can focus less on literally doing the mechanics of the game and more on how I play each situation. Some favorites so far: The ice javelin feels straight up busted, and seems to require very little investment in synergies to be extremely, extremely good. Same for the exploding kunai though that's less surprising knowing it got nerfed a bunch. Does the third shot of the--I think it's called the Sting?--the corrosion crossbow always remove all armor at every difficulty like the text says? Because if so, like, what the gently caress. I haven't tested it yet but I'm guessing that doesn't apply to Elites and up?
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Nov 22, 2021 01:34
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I like this game but tbh I wish they'd do something about Act 1 because getting one-shot by a random hidden trap or suicide bomber for the 50th time gets old
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Nov 22, 2021 01:48
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The ice javelin owns, it's unreal. It's kind of weird that a weapon that does a guaranteed crit on 50% of your attacks has one of the highest crit multipliers but okay
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Nov 22, 2021 01:50
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Ciaphas posted:Maybe it's just a playstyle thing but dang i'm disappointed by lightning sniper cat Only cleared up to Ascension 2, but   I guess with this weapon you don't even have to worry about aiming for weak points. Diephoon fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 01:55
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Turtle seems pretty busted, like he appears to have the best survivability and mobility, and his ability to res other players is incredibly good, and it's not too hard to kit him out to deal big damage also. I like that there's finally a character you can play melee-style in higher difficulties without instantly exploding, though. Kinda feels like he makes bird a redundant (though I guess bird has shotgun synergy)
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Nov 22, 2021 02:04
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I haven't actually touched Sting much because every time I've picked it up it feels really underwhelming. I honestly didn't even notice the 'strips armor' thing on it!
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Nov 22, 2021 03:08
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Ciaphas posted:Maybe it's just a playstyle thing but dang i'm disappointed by lightning sniper cat Tiger sniper builds are exponential. They're real slow at the start, especially when you're playing co-op and have teammates that don't really have to worry about things like "weak spots" or "aiming". Frequently you will be at the bottom of the damage done right up until the 3rd area when your scrolls and bonuses all come together and you can 1 shot sharks and octopuses.
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Nov 22, 2021 06:30
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A bit of game design discussion: Gunfire Reborn is a game with a tendency for glass cannons. And it isn't in the player classes, it's embedded in how the progress work The way the game progresses, enemies gain extra hp and extra damage as you advance through the stages. This power curve is pretty steep, in 1-1 they barely can dent you, you don't even need to avoid them, but already in 1-4 the same shot of the same enemy takes a sizable portion of your shield, and in 2-3 the equivalent enemy can screw you if you aren't attentive. You also gain power, in three ways: -You find more powerful weapons/upgrade your weapons -You get new scrolls -You get new ascensions And if your build is good, you gain power in ways that are not even in linear but exponential, you really can go off the rails and get insane damage numbers. And in fact, that surely is what is going to happen, because from the three ways you gain power, the first one only increases your damage, and a good 2/3 to 3/4 of all scrolls and ascensions are offensive oriented. They do more damage either directly, or indirectly (increasing rof, lucky chance, critX, decreasing cooldowns or reload times, etc). There are a few scrolls and ascensions that for example make you recover a bit of %hp or trigger the shield recharge before normally, but they are less than offensive things, and if you think about it, there are very few things that directly increase your shield or hp amounts. So what happens is that the game in stage 3-3 plays pretty differently to 2-1. The enemies supposedly gain more and more hp... but like it doesn't matter. You have gained even more damage at that point, so you almost instant delete enemies on 3-3 despite being theoretically a tougher stage, while in 2-1 they feel more tanky, you usually have to maneuver around, retreat from the fat guys, take care of the shielded lizards, etc. The danger in 3-3 still resides in that, while you kill them easily, they can do the same to you, thanks to their high damage. The fact your defensive perks only have improved a bit (because what I discussed already) but your damage power curve is exponential, it turns you into a glass cannon usually, even if you don't plan for it. You have to do a very conscious effort (and some 'luck') to make a tanky build. It's funny, but I have a harder time learning the enemies in the late stages of the game because they die so fast!
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Nov 22, 2021 16:03
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Turin Turambar posted:A bit of game design discussion: This is the most notable thing I've come across so far and one of the only disappointing things, even though it's not really my playstyle. The turtle is the only character that seems to be able to do tanky consistently, and is very good at it. It also means that certain talents and scrolls are just insta-ignores if there's anything better as an option. Flat % damage reduction is pretty worthwhile still, but unless I get an early combo piece for something defensive damage seems to always be the choice instead. I've had a hard time telling if dashing gives iframes or not, though it often feels like it does. Can anyone confirm that?
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Nov 22, 2021 18:07
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Dashing does not have i-frames. The only thing in the game that provides i-frames is Bird's Leap, where it is really obvious. In terms of defensive play, a lot of the best defense is indeed "don't get hit" but having a handful of defensive scrolls and ascensions can be the difference between winning and losing on higher difficulties. Hell, Bunny and Bird both have defensive ascensions I consider crucial for winning.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:58
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Evil Kit posted:Dashing does not have i-frames. The only thing in the game that provides i-frames is Bird's Leap, where it is really obvious. It's very funny because I absolutely did not realize the leap had iframes, but that very clearly makes sense and changes how I think about playing him. I'm guessing Bunny's is the shield size/regeneration burst on using her skill?
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Nov 22, 2021 19:11
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My personal favorites are Spirit Feline and Gold Medal. Just absolutely fantastic for keeping yourself alive.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:11
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Is there a reason you can't see a character sheet with your accumulated bonuses? The information seems to be right there, i.e. you can review your accensions and occult scrolls and weapons, but if I want to know what my % bonus to lucky shot is, I have to do all the work myself. It makes figuring stuff out kind of annoying, especially when comparing the same type of gun with different affixes and choosing scrolls. The discussion above about cursed scrolls, for example--is there an in-game way to know the cursed scroll is multiplicative to your damage while the occult scroll is additive?
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Nov 22, 2021 19:30
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Was phone posting earlier so couldn't fully elaborate, but Normal and Elite difficulties are honestly the Tutorial and Normal modes respectively to me. Nightmare is hard and the Reincarnation levels are a scaling understanding of both the game mechanics, game knowledge and just sheer practice with enemy and boss patterns. The number of times I learned a newfound respect for various enemy types on Nightmare+ difficulties is not small, when things don't fold like wet paper you have to actually understand what the enemies do and why they are threats to not die to them. I genuinely think the enemy and encounter design in Gunfire is some of the most intuitive and good I've seen in a long time, with even the basic enemy types you encounter in Longling Tomb providing the basic understanding you need for their variations in later worlds. Sab Sabbington posted:It's very funny because I absolutely did not realize the leap had iframes, but that very clearly makes sense and changes how I think about playing him. Yeah, Sword Guard is one of her best ascension. Bird's is Defensive Cleave (because Slap build is the only build  ), Regen Leap is there too I guess. But really this Arzaac posted:My personal favorites are Spirit Feline and Gold Medal. Just absolutely fantastic for keeping yourself alive. particular combo has singlehandedly won me some games, and is how I got my first Elite win.
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Nov 22, 2021 21:01
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Is there a goon discord for this? I need coop buddies.
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Nov 22, 2021 21:18
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we have a steam group and I hang on out the co-op goons discord for many games, including Gunfire if folks ask. edit: I must admit the steam group is not that active currently though. Evil Kit fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 21:20
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I, Butthole posted:Is there a goon discord for this? I need coop buddies. I think there was one for coop games, in general. Maybe you can find the link in the vermintide 2 / drg / risk of rain 2 threads.
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Nov 22, 2021 21:21
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| # ? May 28, 2024 10:27 |
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I must ask for a request on how to do mega damage with turtle man, my friend stole my skill dmg scrolls so HOI dog could do a million damage with grenades and clear level 7 reincarnation. I need punch man
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Nov 22, 2021 21:21
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