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Cleretic posted:The issue I have with a lot of redemption arcs/villain sympathy plays is that a lot of them kind of ask you to consider the culprit as more worthy of respect than the victims, because very rarely do said victims get similar attention. I get that a lot of them are going for the end ideal of forgiveness, but... uhh, forgiveness doesn't fix murder, guys. Yeah, you can get away with that in comics a lot easier. For example, Megatron   I haven't read the comic so I don't have entire context but each flower represents a person killed by whoever the statue represents.
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Nov 23, 2021 20:43
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CJacobs posted:and that is a much better approach than WERE THE SAME U AND I DRAAAAKEEE from uncharted 2 I would very much like for this trope to go away because it's always incredibly dumb.
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Nov 23, 2021 20:46
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John Murdoch posted:I would very much like for this trope to go away because it's always incredibly dumb. We're much the same in this regard, you and I
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Nov 23, 2021 20:54
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I liked that OK KO had kind of a weird version of it later on where in the later episodes it comes out that Professor Venomous is KO's father and they start trying to have quality time together and it's obvious that they are both trying to make it work. Well, they do when Venomous isn't being Shadowy Figure but to be fair in one of the more interesting twists, he doesn't KNOW that he's shadowy, he's totally dissociated in that form. It's not so much "We're not so different you and I" though, more "We have something in common, let's explore that..."
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Nov 23, 2021 20:59
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John Murdoch posted:I would very much like for this trope to go away because it's always incredibly dumb. I dunno, I find it amusing went the protagonist just no-sells it "No we're not, I'm still alive" *bang* 
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Nov 23, 2021 21:05
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Or Metal Gear Rising's version - "I was wrong about you... you aren't evil. You're COMPLETELY loving INSANE!"
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Nov 23, 2021 21:08
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The problem with redemption arcs in games to me is that they come off hokey because you probably literally just killed a few thousand of their henchmen without a second thought and now you get to the main bad guy and it's a quandary. What about all those henchmen that died that don't get their redemption arc?
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Nov 23, 2021 21:35
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Oh was about to mention Raiden. "yeah I love killing. and I happen to being killing you."
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Nov 23, 2021 21:37
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I suppose this is isn't a little thing at this stage but "not being released" would drag a game down I think It Is 2021, Star Citizen Has Raised $400,000,000, And Is Still Not Out https://kotaku.com/it-is-2021-star-citizen-has-raised-400-000-000-and-i-1848099917 Who's pocketed all that loving money?
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Nov 23, 2021 21:50
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John Murdoch posted:I would very much like for this trope to go away because it's always incredibly dumb. The way Uncharted 4 flips this on its head is really great because they knew people felt that way about 2. Full spoilers: Nadine turns out slowly over the course of the story not to be the underboss to Rafe- the muscle to his brains -but instead the supplier of the army and the muscle to Rafe himself. Naturally she ditches him at the end with most of the treasure because he takes Drake's meddling personally. Before she goes, she very specifically points out the corpses of the pirates they've been seeking, stuck in the burning pirate ship with them. The lesson this time isn't "we're the same for our similar actions", it's "YOU'RE the same because who you are landed you in the same spot. You already were a bad person." CJacobs has a new favorite as of 22:10 on Nov 23, 2021 |
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Nov 23, 2021 22:03
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BiggerBoat posted:I suppose this is isn't a little thing at this stage but "not being released" would drag a game down I think The game just got an update recently so my friends and I went back to check it out and the game is just not fun and absolutely does not respect your time. After launching the game, finding the elevator to the ground floor of my space hotel, finding the tram station to take me to the space port, taking the 5 minute tram ride, taking another elevator to the kiosk where I can order my ship, take a third elevator to my ship, I finally leave and have to spend ~5 minutes throttling out of atmosphere so my warp drive system will work. Total elapsed time is around 25 minutes of tedium just getting to my ship and if the game fucks up (which it will) add on another 10 minutes. So many other stupid design decisions. For example, every store conducts its business over a computer terminal but for some reason they all have a clerk manning the counter. The only thing these clerks do is repeated the same three voice clips. They’re not even fun voice clips, one is just a guy bitching non-stop. Quests are still incredibly broken. We got a ground mission to kill some guys who were in a base. The mission briefing mentioned there were both friendly security guards and people we had to kill but didn’t tell us who was who. So we fly to the quest location and get a restricted area warning, but since the cops gave us this quest we assumed we were fine. We were not as the base systems destroyed our ship right after we left it stranding us. Undeterred we enter the base and see four people, two in yellow and two in blue, just standing next to each other not fighting. After much deliberating we find out the blue guys are bad and successfully wipe them out, it was a miracle all the required enemies spawned. For no reason after the quest one of the five remaining cops took issue with us and tried to kill us. I shot the cop in the face and despite his unprovoked attack I was branded a criminal right before I logged off in disgust. The cherry on the pie is the next time I launch the game (if I ever do again) I will be in space jail and will have to do more bullshit to serve my space time. Sorry for the effort post but I am so frustrated with that game. It was gifted to me for free and I still feel ripped off.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:45
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moosecow333 posted:The game just got an update recently so my friends and I went back to check it out and the game is just not fun and absolutely does not respect your time. It's more beautiful than I could have imagined 
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Nov 23, 2021 22:47
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The funniest implementation of the "we're not so different, you and I" trope was in Assassin's Creed Valhalla, where some random elite dudes you gank on horseback all get hammy death monologues when you don't even know them and they popped into existence on your minimap 10 minutes earlier.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:48
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I like the story in Yakuza 3 but man, I'm not digging the combat. It's slower and I just feel so much weaker. Anything more than random street thugs just feels like a slog, there's plenty of weapons but they take like 2 pixels off the health bars for heavy attacks, and even my regular heat moves often take about 5% off the health bar. I can handle the simplicity and clunkiness from it being an older game, but I've just had multiple fights now where I pause in the middle to do something else because I'm just *bored*.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:30
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My favorite "We're the same, You and I" is at the end of GTA SA between Big Smoke, the guy who betrayed his whole gang, and CJ, the guy who not only didn't betray that same gang he also didn't betray 3 other gangs he hung out with along the way edit: And the funny part is in a way Big Smoke is right because he firmly falls in the 'I don't give a gently caress I got money' side which is fair enough big man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dt6tBPpo70 Because you do prove him right when you pointlessly storm his penthouse specifically to kill him, which he knew you would do, because you're both assholes even if you aren't the kind of rear end in a top hat who would betray people and he is CJacobs has a new favorite as of 23:45 on Nov 23, 2021 |
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Nov 23, 2021 23:42
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CJ did gently caress off to the east coast leaving the whole gang to fall apart. CJ and Smoke both wanted more outta life than to just be ganagbangers. And like CJ smoke left the Grove to try and get that opportunity. Unfortunately he chose to work with Ballas, Vagos, and Tenpenny instead of doing the "right" thing and sticking with his homies and building a semi legit not drug fueled Enterprise. CJ also does betray the Leones.
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Nov 24, 2021 00:30
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Captain Hygiene posted:It's more beautiful than I could have imagined Doesn't Star Citizen have its own thread on the forums that's like 10 years old? Talk about hype.
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Nov 24, 2021 01:01
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Captain Hygiene posted:I like the story in Yakuza 3 but man, I'm not digging the combat. It's slower and I just feel so much weaker. Anything more than random street thugs just feels like a slog, there's plenty of weapons but they take like 2 pixels off the health bars for heavy attacks, and even my regular heat moves often take about 5% off the health bar. I can handle the simplicity and clunkiness from it being an older game, but I've just had multiple fights now where I pause in the middle to do something else because I'm just *bored*. This is definitely one of the biggest issues with 3. On top of your attacks doing gently caress all for damage, enemies also love to block constantly, even random street thugs. It isn't much consolation, but they RADICALLY improved on this for 4.
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Nov 24, 2021 01:30
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I’ve said it before, but Yakuza 3 was my introduction to the series and between the weird translation choices of the original NA release, the stodgy combat, and having no loving idea who these people are because I was jumping into the middle of things meta-plot wise I have no idea how it became one of my most loved series.
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Nov 24, 2021 01:41
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serefin99 posted:This is definitely one of the biggest issues with 3. On top of your attacks doing gently caress all for damage, enemies also love to block constantly, even random street thugs. Yeah, I got tired of writing but the constant blocking is really on my nerves too. We'll see if I can push through, at least I had some advance warning to prepare for some of the worse gameplay in the series. Bussamove posted:I’ve said it before, but Yakuza 3 was my introduction to the series and between the weird translation choices of the original NA release, the stodgy combat, and having no loving idea who these people are because I was jumping into the middle of things meta-plot wise I have no idea how it became one of my most loved series. I was actually thinking about this exact situation earlier, jumping in at 0 and the 1&2 remakes is probably the fastest I've fallen in love with a completely unknown series, but I figure I'd bow out if I started here.
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Nov 24, 2021 01:41
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Captain Hygiene posted:Yeah, I got tired of writing but the constant blocking is really on my nerves too. We'll see if I can push through, at least I had some advance warning to prepare for some of the worse gameplay in the series. Yakuza 0 is a double-edged sword because they did a prequel properly and made it the actual perfect place to start the series— but it’s also, in my opinion at least, far and away the best game in the series. So everything after is going to feel just a little jankier, especially going from the Dragon engine of Kiwami 2 to the ancient engine of 3. 4 is miles better than 3 in most every aspect though, so you’ve got clear skies ahead after that.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:06
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Gaius Marius posted:CJ did gently caress off to the east coast leaving the whole gang to fall apart. CJ and Smoke both wanted more outta life than to just be ganagbangers. And like CJ smoke left the Grove to try and get that opportunity. Unfortunately he chose to work with Ballas, Vagos, and Tenpenny instead of doing the "right" thing and sticking with his homies and building a semi legit not drug fueled Enterprise. CJ also does betray the Leones. Yeah that's fair. I think the difference is that CJ didn't directly gently caress over his fellow guys in green on the way out because it'd benefit him. They give him the appropriate amount of poo poo for it at the start of the game and he does feel bad about it, unlike Smoke who is wholly unrepentant because he's BIG SMOOOKEEE and all that.
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Nov 24, 2021 04:30
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CJacobs posted:Yeah that's fair. I think the difference is that CJ didn't directly gently caress over his fellow guys in green on the way out because it'd benefit him. They give him the appropriate amount of poo poo for it at the start of the game and he does feel bad about it, unlike Smoke who is wholly unrepentant because he's BIG SMOOOKEEE and all that. CJ owes Grove Street nothing, which became obvious to me in the first 5 missions. Ryder is a moron and a piece of poo poo, Sweet is an rear end in a top hat that gives him guff for escaping their objectively terrible lives, so honestly abandoning him was the best thing CJ could have done (unless he pulled his head out of his rear end which CJ was in no way obligated to help him with), Big Smoke is Big Smoke, and OG Loc is a perpetual loser with delusions of grandeur. The only reason CJ didn't abandon them all over again immediately after the funeral was Tenpenny trapping him there. The only two people in Grove Street that were worth anything at all were CJ's sister and his mother, and one of them is dead, and the rest of the gang are probably destined to get the other one killed too.
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Nov 24, 2021 05:02
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Fil5000 posted:It really is tiresome that in basically everything (games, movies, TV) as soon as someone has a heel-face turn you know they're dead. No one wants to write the difficult redemption stuff, or have a character that you now are supposed to like punished for what they did beyond a moment of self sacrifice. This is why I loved the TV show Person of Interest so much, that was pretty much what the show and every character arc was about, redemption and atonement. Fusco, Root, and Shaw all put in the work for their redemption. Agents are GO! has a new favorite as of 05:22 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 05:18
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Bussamove posted:I’ve said it before, but Yakuza 3 was my introduction to the series and between the weird translation choices of the original NA release, the stodgy combat, and having no loving idea who these people are because I was jumping into the middle of things meta-plot wise I have no idea how it became one of my most loved series. Yeah, same. Was very confused as to why women were showing up on the streets to date me, then boning after a single quest. Or the completely empty mahjong parlors.
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Nov 24, 2021 05:59
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Captain Hygiene posted:It's more beautiful than I could have imagined Somehow someone made a space game shittier than Eve and people still play it.
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Nov 24, 2021 06:39
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Did the first dragon age game have all of this collectathon bullshit stuff? I don’t remember it having this garbage and it’s starting to grate on me a little in DA Inquisition. Also the crafting/item progression just straight up stops at around level 15. I was pretty regularly making and buying new stuff for my people and it just stopped. Now the only way I can improve is if I get ultra rare drops from enemies that don’t always spawn and if I wanted to play some dumb MMO, I’d go do that. A ton of the spells and skills are just awful too or just made totally obsolete when you unlock specializations. My main dude is a knight enchanter and makes even big fights pretty trivial and dull now. Oh and as a result of doing all of the side quests and collectathons for fear of missing something (and you absolutely can miss important stuff), I’m now horribly overleveled approaching what I assume is the end-game stuff. Also the nudity is pretty cringey and totally unnecessary (c’mon BioWare, I didn’t need to see Cassandra’s poorly-rendered boobs) and it seems like the voice acting is getting worse/hammier the further I go. That said, this game is scratching an itch I haven’t been able to scratch since Origins and I definitely will finish it along with its DLC.
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Nov 24, 2021 06:54
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Frank Frank posted:Did the first dragon age game have all of this collectathon bullshit stuff?
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Nov 24, 2021 08:11
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As someone who's gotten every almanac page in Assassins Creed III, I can tell you the collectathon in Dragon Age Inquisition is terrible. It's bizarre that for all of AC3's faults, it's the only game in the series with a sensible number of collectibles. 150 instead of 500.
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Nov 24, 2021 11:22
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah, you can get away with that in comics a lot easier. For example, Megatron Yeah, he does not remotely get a free pass in that book. That's a good pick. Agents are GO! posted:This is why I loved the TV show Person of Interest so much, that was pretty much what the show and every character arc was about, redemption and atonement. Fusco, Root, and Shaw all put in the work for their redemption. Reese and Finch too (although it's really easy to argue that Finch wasn't actually responsible for the thing he's working to atone for).
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Nov 24, 2021 12:23
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Man I really forgot how hard the save system in Dead Space 3 can go gently caress itself! I think my very first post in this thread seven years ago was about this subject and it sure still can! edit: I was right AND AARGHH CJacobs posted:Dead Space 3's unlock system is mother loving bananas and I hate the way it works. Y'know that mystery cube in the Hellraiser series that is actually like some kind of demon summoning enigma and nobody can figure out how it functions except that it summons the aforementioned demons? Dead Space 3's NG+ and unlock system is like that. I'll try to explain in words how it works. AARGHH Man you can tell it was 2014 by the slur CJacobs has a new favorite as of 12:47 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 12:45
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Inspector Gesicht posted:As someone who's gotten every almanac page in Assassins Creed III, I can tell you the collectathon in Dragon Age Inquisition is terrible. The shard thing is particularly egregious, because not only do you have to find like 20-30 of them per-map, it borrows that telescope "points of interest" thing (I forget which other game did this - Shadow of Mordor or Skyrim maybe?) where you have to go into first person mode and painstakingly go over every inch of the map until you "see" one but the kicker is, the telescope mini-game doesn't just mark the shard on your map for you. The shards literally don't exist UNTIL you use the telescope thingy - meaning you can't just stumble across one even though there are dozens of them lying around. Hilariously, the telescope thingies themselves don't appear on the map until you stumble across one. Like what the gently caress is this mechanic? Argh. Edit: I also hate that your party inventory is limited to 60 items and that you don't get party storage until you hit Skyhold. Sure, you can spend perks to increase your inventory by like 15 but who is gonna do that? Also also, I think the main thing dragging Inquisition down is the fact that it doesn't really encourage multiple playthroughs like Origins did. In Origins your race/class/background had a real impact on the outcome of the game and actually changed the story. The fact that you had to make snap decisions in dialogue trees that would have real impacts on the outcome of the game was fine because the game made it pretty clear you needed to play through multiple times to see it all. In Inquisition, the sheer amount of tedious collecting you have to do and the fact that your character's race/class don't really matter all that much makes it unlikely I'm going to want to play through this more than once - which makes me want to use a guide to keep from making some horrible dialogue mistake which sucks a lot of the fun out of it. Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 15:03 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 14:54
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If it makes you feel any better, the only thing collecting all the shards does is award a few high elemental resistance rings on the oasis map.
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Nov 24, 2021 15:01
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exquisite tea posted:If it makes you feel any better, the only thing collecting all the shards does is award a few high elemental resistance rings on the oasis map. Yeah, I know. I've gotten 2(?) of them so far I think. It also awards you with permanent resist bonuses even without the belts/rings you receive for getting to the end of each path. Edit: Lmao David Hayter is in this as a dwarf and it's weirding me out. Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 23:12 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 15:04
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I started Forza Horizon 5 yesterday. Its really, really gorgeous and I appreciate all of the stuff they tried to do for character customization to let people represent themselves. I do wish it had more than two voices options. Its also super weird that they called the pronoun picker page 'Identity' because pronouns are potentially descriptive but aren't the summation of a person's identity whatsoever. They should have just called it pronouns but probably got worried that chuds would get mad about that specific word.
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Nov 25, 2021 07:18
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They should have stuck have the a silent protagonist. The talking adds nothing of value to the game.
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Nov 25, 2021 12:16
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What does a racing game even have a dang protagonist for
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Nov 25, 2021 12:21
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It's cause you are a horizon superstar!!!
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Nov 25, 2021 12:44
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My Lovely Horse posted:What does a racing game even have a dang protagonist for Tanner of Driver San Francisco justifies driving games having protagonists, even though he's the only good one there's ever been
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Nov 25, 2021 14:05
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It was cringey the first time I really met this in TDU2 and I really need to get FH5 so I can have this experience again  That said, stories in racing games have mostly been pointless and terrible for ages. I remember how in the NfS series it kind of started in Underground and just kept getting worse as they shoved it into your face more and more (before that there were extremly faint traces of story in NfS games, if any).
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