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Saquon's Paradox: If you have the offensive line to make use of a generational running back talent, you aren't drafting high enough to get him.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:20
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Saquon is a bust. Not the worst bust of all time but he's a bust, he hasn't appreciably helped the Giants be successful, he's been injured a lot and seems to be in a semi-permanent state of injury recently. Doesn't look the same now as he did then. He's a pretty good player but because of his draft position, what the team needed and his injuries he is a bust.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:21
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#2 pick should be able to play at a high level regardless of how poo poo the rest of his team is.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:23
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indigi posted:his rookie contract is just about up and he’s yet to gain 4000 all purpose yards, his cap hit starts going up starting next season and he’s only been an especially good RB part of his rookie year. that seems fairly bustish One genuinely good year is better than 50% of first found picks. Probably 50% of top 10 picks
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Nov 23, 2021 23:24
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Asproigerosis posted:#2 pick should be able to play at a high level regardless of how poo poo the rest of his team is. no draft pick is ever guaranteed to perform regardless of draft position this is a stupid take
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Nov 23, 2021 23:24
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R.D. Mangles posted:There is objectively no worse draft pick given the other options available, the team, and the trade, than mitchell d trubisky I have a friend who is a Bears fan and whenever I want to piss her off I just say "How is Trubisky working out for you?" (I live in Kansas City and am a Chiefs fan)
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Nov 23, 2021 23:44
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Dubious posted:no draft pick is ever guaranteed to perform regardless of draft position this is a stupid take Right and the ones that significantly underperform relative to their draft position are busts.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:59
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Let’s not forget the year the Browns put Lawrence Vickers at Fullback giving Peyton Hillis his one great year that got him on the cover of EA and when Vickers left Peyton shat himself out of the league. For Runningbacks the Offensive Line matters and even mediocre ones can end up world beaters. Granted there was that one year AP dragged the Vikings to the playoffs on his back but even then.
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Nov 24, 2021 00:03
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He's for sure a bust by any definition. But if they hadn't drafted him you know they almost certainly would have taken a QB and likely ended up with Darnold or Rosen who are objectively far worse players than Saquon. So uh, I guess he's better than the alternative.
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Nov 24, 2021 00:06
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I just want one year of prime Joe Mixon running behind a good offensive line. Dude's only 25 it can still happen.
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Nov 24, 2021 00:12
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My favorite guy I never saw play to bring up during bust chat--I don't know if it's the worst bust but it's gotta be up there: Russell Erxleben. The Saints drafted Erxleben 11th overall in 1979 hoping that they could save a roster spot by having him handle both placekicking and punting. They did this despite having a decent kicker and punter--keep in mind these are the 70's Saints so decent probably=real damned good for them considering. Erxleben was fairly bomb at Texas and got a rule change put in when he hit a 67 yard field goal in a game and two other 60+ that season (you could use kicking blocks to increase the height of the ball on field goal attempts up until then). So at least the man had a leg, if you're going to actually use the 11th pick on a kicker. Erxleben played one game in his rookie season, before promptly tearing his hamstring and missing the rest of the year. I don't know this for sure but it's possible maybe he coulda come back but they didn't want him because... quote:In Erxleben's first NFL game, on September 2, 1979, the Saints and the archrival Atlanta Falcons went into overtime with the score 34-34. Midway through overtime, a snap went over Erxleben's head and rolled to the goal line. Erxleben picked the ball up and made a hurried chest pass. The pass was intercepted by Atlanta's James Mayberry at the 6-yard line, and he trotted into the end zone for a touchdown and a 40-34 Falcon victory. I don't know if the injury gave him the yips or what, but the experiment of using him to both punt and kick field goals lasted exactly 5 attempts through the next season, of which he hit 2. He would only attempt one more kick the rest of his career. He did keep his punting duties for 5 years with the Saints, but wasn't special (just busy because of this era of Saints). So the Saints used #11 on a guy who attempted 8 field goals in his career, hit 4, and punted for a while but never made a pro bowl doing that. As a bonus he is a multiple time felon after his playing career in white collar criming (busted for money laundering/securities & mail fraud, and got busted again for the same thing and running a ponzi scheme after he got out of prison the first time).
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Nov 24, 2021 01:05
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Freaquency posted:It’s still ridiculous to say he’s the worst draft pick of all time though. oh definitely not. I’m not even convinced he’s a bust personally but I can see where people are coming from
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Nov 24, 2021 02:29
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Put Saquon Barkley on the Rams or Patriots and let’s see what happens (besides getting hurt and out for the season)
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Nov 24, 2021 02:47
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Eifert Posting posted:I just want one year of prime Joe Mixon running behind a good offensive line. How is Mixon not 32???
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Nov 24, 2021 03:23
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perhaps someone who wasn't interested in bengals lore could think jeremy hill and joe mixon were the same nameless but somewhat familiar player
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Nov 24, 2021 03:32
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Just searched Google and got no results for "Mojoe Mixon" so I must be the first person to come up with it.
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Nov 24, 2021 03:34
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Cavauro posted:perhaps someone who wasn't interested in bengals lore could think jeremy hill and joe mixon were the same nameless but somewhat familiar player Jeremy Hill is only 29 what the gently caress
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Nov 24, 2021 03:39
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Rudi Johnson is 42. Cedric Benson has been dead for over two years. T.J. Houshmandzadeh last played ten years ago (And it was for the Raiders?!).
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Nov 24, 2021 03:44
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forgot you weren't joking about cedric benson. thought he was benjarvis
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Nov 24, 2021 03:51
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Cavauro posted:forgot you weren't joking about cedric benson. thought he was benjarvis Law Firm 
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Nov 24, 2021 06:10
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Vikings Quarterback Kirk Cousins thinks they were "too aggressive" in their play calling during their win over Green Bay. I think the  are starting to take effect.
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Nov 24, 2021 07:16
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Zwabu posted:I'm always partial to Ryan Leaf. I figure JaMarcus Russell would be in there somewhere in the conversation. The JaMarcus Larch post keeps JaMarcus from being a complete bust.
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Nov 24, 2021 07:27
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Zwabu posted:Have there been "biggest draft busts in the history of the NFL" threads in TFF before? Leaf had the single worst game I have ever seen a quarterback have in 1998 against the Chiefs.
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Nov 24, 2021 07:29
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Saquon is a bust but it's hard to blame him for a fair amount of him busting. Injuries are tough to judge a player for and he's never truly stayed healthy outside his first, best year. Like Toney now he's a dynamic creative guy being thrust into an offense that doesn't suit him. But he's also got some big flaws as a player. He's real bad at taking what the defense gives him. Saquon is a bust in that he should never have been a Giant, we had so many other needs to address. He's far from the top worst picks of all time. I wish he had fallen to a team that could have actually used him better.
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Nov 24, 2021 07:32
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:How is Mixon not 32??? crime is the fountain of youth
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Nov 24, 2021 07:35
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Android Apocalypse posted:Vikings Quarterback Kirk Cousins thinks they were "too aggressive" in their play calling during their win over Green Bay. The man is terminally cautious.
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Nov 24, 2021 07:52
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Jamarcus Russell isn't a bigger bust than Leaf because he gave us the greatest spin move in NFL history https://youtu.be/3t284xmXsPI
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Nov 24, 2021 08:18
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Professor Funk posted:Also a weird comment given Maccagnan drafted Hackenberg in the 2nd round. Though I would argue that’s the most *embarrassing* pick of all time, though not the worst given it wasn’t a high 1st rounder. Yeah, the thing about Hackenberg is that it was genuinely obvious at the time that she shouldn't have been drafted by anybody, at all, in any round. He didn't have red flags, he was a Soviet military parade. Like no joke he looked worse than FCS quarterbacks. None of this is hindsight, he was simply not good, and not in a "Tebow does goofy poo poo that won't translate" way, he was just dumb and bad. FF goons want to redo the tedginn.gif reaction every draft but picking Hack truly was on another level of dumb for real.
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Nov 24, 2021 08:58
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Uh excuse me hackenberg propelled bobobrieno to the coaching hall of fame
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Nov 24, 2021 09:17
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fartknocker posted:Rudi Johnson is 42. Cedric Benson has been dead for over two years. T.J. Houshmandzadeh last played ten years ago (And it was for the Raiders?!). I bought first row tickets one time and drunkenly yelled encouragement to the players a bunch. Housh and Frostee Rucker were the only ones to turn around and give me a wave
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Nov 24, 2021 10:40
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I feel like Akili Smith always flys under the radar as a bust. 2,200 yards on 461 attempts for his career, 4.8 yards an attempt, his career QB rating was 52.8 and he was only above 60 in QB rating because one season he started 1 game and was 5/8 with no TDs/INTs. He was so bad that in 2003 he was brought in to Packers camp and beaten out by Craig Nall. He sat till 2005 when he tried out with the Bucs and failed to make the roster. Played some in NFL Europe and Canada. When high draft picks get a million chances to fail, he was out of the league amazingly fast, and it probably would have been faster but the Bengals were too cheap to dump him after his 2nd season.
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Nov 24, 2021 12:11
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Trent Richardson was so bad he couldn't hit an open hole in front of him Barkley is a bust and it was a terrible pick. If he had been picked where Nick Chubb was he'd really just be a disappointment or one of those guys who wasn't really a hit but still gave you something once like Sony Michel. Instead, Gettleman is an idiot and took him at 2 over all and that really changes the perspective on how you look at him.
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Nov 24, 2021 12:48
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How good does a RB have to be for him to be a good pick at 2? I think if you got Derrick Henry or CMC there you're generally pretty happy with it. Maaaaybe an Alvin Kamara or Dalvin Cook, too?
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Nov 24, 2021 13:47
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:How is Mixon not 32??? I also thought he was way older. I would have guessed 28-29.
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Nov 24, 2021 14:08
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fsif posted:How good does a RB have to be for him to be a good pick at 2? Even if I knew Derrick Henry had the potential to be.. well, Derrick Henry, I’m probably not picking at #2 because a RB is my most pressing need, so I’m probably not picking Derrick Henry. Or Kamara. Or Cook. However, any coach that wants to Mike Ditka their entire draft for a RB has my full support.
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Nov 24, 2021 14:15
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fsif posted:How good does a RB have to be for him to be a good pick at 2? To even begin to justify this you'd need it to be a HoF career in my opinion. Denver proved you could get Super Bowl level RB production out of a good O-line and scheme with street bodies 25 years ago. Get me a LT or a DE or a QB at #2, or a great WR, anything but an RB
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Nov 24, 2021 15:19
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Yall are loving weirdos about HB its just like every other position a true game changer is much much different than that replacement level player yall love to pick up in the 6th
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Nov 24, 2021 15:43
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sean10mm posted:Yeah, the thing about Hackenberg is that it was genuinely obvious at the time that she shouldn't have been drafted by anybody, at all, in any round. He didn't have red flags, he was a Soviet military parade. Yep, and they actually committed to developing him even after it was made immediately clear in his first camp that he could not be salvaged, which was maybe even worse than picking him in the first place. The opportunity cost of drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd, acknowledging your mistake, and moving on is not particularly high. You wasted a 2nd rounder in embarrassing fashion, but tons of 2nd rounders are busts, whatever. But when you are making high 1st round picks with the background assumption that you can (or want to) develop Hackenberg like the Jets did in 2017, then the case for it being an all-time bad pick becomes a bit more cogent. (And that's not even considering that the Jets then had to move three 2nd rounders to move up for Darnold the following year.) So yeah, I don't think the Hackenberg pick on its own is the worst pick of all time. He never played, but again, it's a 2nd rounder, fine. But I think committing to him even for one extra year is probably one of the worst instances of roster mismanagement of all time, or at least recent NFL history. Professor Funk fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 15:57
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Metapod posted:Yall are loving weirdos about HB its just like every other position a true game changer is much much different than that replacement level player yall love to pick up in the 6th You can get productive running backs anywhere, drafting one at #2 over all is stupid
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Nov 24, 2021 16:16
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I think there are true superstar RBs that transcend their line/offense, but it's too hard to predict who it's gonna be so you're better off waiting until at least the 2nd round to take your chances but I think I'd take Nick Chubb, CMC or Henry #2 overall in a redraft
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Nov 24, 2021 16:28
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