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Finally caught up with the thread. I really like the show overall, but I do have some mostly minor complaints. Not at all a fan of the whole 'the dragon could be reborn as a girl' thing, it screws with the mythology of the setting too much. Thankfully it kinda doesn't matter in the long run because Rand is the Dragon regardless. Also not a fan of what appears to be the idea that the Aes Sedai need their hands in order to channel, I don't like the way it depowers them a bit and I don't like that the whitecloaks were able to capture an Aes Sedai and render her helpless by cutting off her hands. I think the scene would have worked just as well or better if they'd captured a random non channeler wise woman who was a little too good with her herbs and executed her on suspicion of being a witch. Deciding that a perfectly innocent person is a darkfriend and killing them is a pretty big part of what makes the whitecloaks awful. I like the Baerlon sequence and I'm sad they cut it. Also don't like the way they ditched the mystery around Moiraine and Aes Sedai. Also - and I know this is a minor nitpick - there was no reason to invent this weird bit of lore about the three oaths being something introduced after Hawkwing - it actually has significant lore implications for eg Aes Sedai would have realised something was up if they suddenly started dying hundreds of years sooner than expected. Honestly I think the show would have been better if they'd stayed truer to the books (also having Thom in the two rivers) for the first portion of the story up through to the end of Baerlon. I love Thom in this, although I wish they'd gone for the big moustaches - that actor they cast has the perfect face to pull those off. I did however absolutely hate the song he sang (and honestly the Manetheren song as well) the songs felt super cringey and awkward and poorly written, and the second one in particular felt really out of place - it needed to be folksier at a minimum, instead of the weird rock vibe. I'm fine with some significant condensing of the Rand and Mat travelling plotline from book 1 as it seems we've got. It's interesting that they cut Mordeth - the character has a wet fart of a plotline that ends up going nowhere in the books and it seems like an easy cut except for the fact that they need rand to get stabbed with the dagger so he gets the idea on how to go about cleansing Saidin. It will be interesting to see how this affects the plot of the book 2 part of the show since Fain only steals the dagger cause mordeath is possessing him in the books (and you can argue that Fain/Mordeth meeting with Elaida and applying his corrupting influence on her is a big contributor to her later unhinged behaviour.) My main complaints though are the completely bullshit changes to Mat and Perrin - Perrin in particular there was no need for a random fridging like that, I don't buy at all that the character needed it for some reason and it's really bizzare to me that the showrunners appear to have gone to considerable lengths to make the setting more progressive then turned around and inserted a fridging for no reason. Mat doesn't need the tragic backstory and one thing in particular really bugged me - Mat is a good natured scamp. He gets into trouble as a kid for silly pranks, but he doesn't do nasty or malicious poo poo (and a lot of other characters really misunderstand him). He likes flirting and getting laid but the text is very explicitly clear about his attitude to consent - he genuinely respects women. So I was really annoyed when they showed him in episode 1 essentially seducing someone in order to steal her jewellery and pawn it to Fain. That's really gross and Mat would never do that. Incredibly minor nit pick as well but I always pictured Mat as more of a dandy, this Mat is really scruffy, that works later when he's been on the road for ages but in the two rivers at least he should have been cleanshaven. All that aside though I really do like the show, the scenery is incredible and I like the cast. I find myself wondering if they touch up the colours of the scenery in post production or something - that river that Egwene was pushed into in episode 1 was the most beautiful and intensely blue river I've ever seen, if it actually looks like that in real life then goddamn.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:30
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The Three Oaths weren't a thing until sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the War of 100 years so there's a 1000-1500 year span where the Tower existed and Aes Sedai weren't bound. It's possible that contemporary Aes Sedai knew that they were limiting their lifespans in exchange for public acceptance of channeling and the White Tower but like many things that knowledge was lost yet the tradition remained.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:42
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Admittedly I really don't understand the decision to have Moiraine say it TD could have been reborn a man or a woman either when they go ahead and keep the Aes Sedai as an all-female outfit, and keep that male channelers are destined to go insane. Like I get that they want to be all inclusive and all that jazz, cool fine whatever I don't care, it just seems like that's going to backfire when nonreaders find out it's Rand lol. e; The whole "Perrin fridges his wife" thing is another take I really don't get. It's quite clear the show wants to do all the right things. Maybe Laila isn't a victim of sexism/misogyny but rather just simply bad writing? Like if we want more diverse representation in media... Sooner or later that means someone is going to get a poo poo part. That's just a math/probability thing 
Sab669 fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 17:44
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I'm really looking forward to the reveal that TDR is Rand  Especially with all these "Anakin Skywalker" takes after the first 3 eps.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:45
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I dunno, a bunch of drunk miners listening to Robert Plant Unplugged seems a lot more on point than them listening to Mumford & Sons.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:46
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our very imperfect researchers of the current era can't conclusively rule out that it could be a woman, but it's not actually going to be one, i genuinely don't see why i should give a poo poo about this change it doesn't actually mess with anything, except that people in-world don't think that souls are immutably gendered Always Male or Always Female (the only two genders that exist!) for all eternity, which is stupid regressive poo poo that should be jettisoned anyways
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Nov 24, 2021 17:47
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CainFortea posted:I dunno, a bunch of drunk miners listening to Robert Plant Unplugged seems a lot more on point than them listening to Mumford & Sons. I was thinking more Tom Waits than Robert Plant.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:51
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Devorum posted:I was thinking more Tom Waits than Robert Plant. Sure, but Plant actually did an UnPlugged. I don't think Tom Waits did.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:55
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eke out posted:our very imperfect researchers of the current era can't conclusively rule out that it could be a woman, but it's not actually going to be one, i genuinely don't see why i should give a poo poo about this change It’s not so much that reincarnations have to be gendered, it’s that this particular person is prophesied to be this terrible figure of impending destruction, madness, and change, which every other part of the setting has set up to be a consequence of him being a male channeler destined to be in a race against time to save the world before he succumbs to madness. “ Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation!” loses something if there’s a 50% chance that the dragon will be reborn as a totally chill, not at all crazy woman.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:14
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:“ Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation!” loses something if there’s a 50% chance that the dragon will be reborn as a totally chill, not at all crazy woman. The prophecies already say the Dragon Reborn will gently caress up the entire world so even if she was reborn as a woman there's still plenty of reasons to be pissing yourself
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Nov 24, 2021 18:18
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:It’s not so much that reincarnations have to be gendered, it’s that this particular person is prophesied to be this terrible figure of impending destruction, madness, and change, which every other part of the setting has set up to be a consequence of him being a male channeler destined to be in a race against time to save the world before he succumbs to madness. The Dragon breaking the world again has very little to do with Taint Madness and a lot to do with the societal upheaval they cause and the whole "massive Last Battle against Actual Satan and his armies of destruction" which is not gender-based. This was made pretty clear by all the prophecy snippets and writings from the Fourth Age.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:20
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:It’s not so much that reincarnations have to be gendered, it’s that this particular person is prophesied to be this terrible figure of impending destruction, madness, and change, which every other part of the setting has set up to be a consequence of him being a male channeler destined to be in a race against time to save the world before he succumbs to madness. There isn't though. There's a 50% chance that the Dragon will be a woman who breaks the world while trying to save it. Just like the Dragon last time was a sane man who corrupted Saidin. If you want to get deep into themes or whatever, it's better that the doom in the prophecy be about how the world fears change and the choices of powerful people rather than the whole thing sitting on this one piece of fictional metaphysics.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:22
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:“ Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation!” loses something if there’s a 50% chance that the dragon will be reborn as a totally chill, not at all crazy woman. On top of the fact that the dragon breaking the world and destroying all bonds is still absolutely pucker time even if the person doing it is trying to be as nice as possible, there is nothing at all saying that a woman could not be driven crazy either. Knowing you're destined to die and cause untold suffering could break someone even without the taint.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:25
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Rand is cracking under the pressure before he even declares himself the Dragon Reborn and before any madness starts effecting him so there's no reason why a woman wouldn't be susceptible to that kind of stuff too. No where do the prophecies say "the dragon will go mad from channeling" only that they will bring destruction. In fact being a mega nerd and looking at the Karaethon Cycle the only time the word "madness" is used is in reference to the Dragon "healing the wounds of madness" in cleansing the source. And yes I realize the whole thing is just a feint for new people but it's not really a big deviation from what's actually in the books.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:26
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It also plays up the whole thing the books had with rumors running wild, and stories changing as they are passed down.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:27
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I mean, keep in mind a woman dragon might end up corrupting the woman's half of she power in saving the world too. So there's something to fear there
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Nov 24, 2021 18:27
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Rafes AMA has started. He said the aielman in the cage wasnt gaul. Also the thing hes most looking forward to doing is dumais wells
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Nov 24, 2021 18:29
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I think opening up the possibility of a female dragon wielding Sai'dar lessens the apocalyptic nature of the Dragon a bit, but its not like they're actually doing that. It's just a bit of a nod towards inclusivity, and we're still going to get the terror of a savior going insane. It's 2021, you gotta be more inclusive these days
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Nov 24, 2021 18:31
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eke out posted:https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWqQtEUI1Bq/?utm_medium=share_sheet Badass!
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Nov 24, 2021 18:33
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I suppose there's probably that chicken/egg thing going with the prophecies in this regard. The Dragon Reborn is prophesied to break the world, and thus the world effectively breaks itself in reaction to them being known.How are u posted:I think opening up the possibility of a female dragon wielding Sai'dar lessens the apocalyptic nature of the Dragon a bit, but its not like they're actually doing that. It's just a bit of a nod towards inclusivity, and we're still going to get the terror of a savior going insane.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:43
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relevant to my above point:quote:WoTshowrunner
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Nov 24, 2021 18:46
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Pretty sure it's also being used to A) keep the identity of the dragon up in the air for longer for people who don't already know, and 2) Give Egwene a quicker reason to leave. Otherwise you have to spend more time on explaining why Egwene is different, and why she is going anyway, and why Moiraine would let her. in an episode that already has a lot in it. A combination of multiple reasons is also possible.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:47
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:The Three Oaths weren't a thing until sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the War of 100 years so there's a 1000-1500 year span where the Tower existed and Aes Sedai weren't bound. It's possible that contemporary Aes Sedai knew that they were limiting their lifespans in exchange for public acceptance of channeling and the White Tower but like many things that knowledge was lost yet the tradition remained. Not true - they were phased in gradually but the oldest of them (the oath to make no weapon) was the first introduced and happened sometime relatively shortly after the breaking.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:59
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So, the AMA is actually great and addresses a lot of concerns that folks ITT have raised. Rafe is definitely down to answer real, serious questions. Highly recommend reading it, it’s in r/television.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:03
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The Lord Bude posted:Not true - they were phased in gradually but the oldest of them (the oath to make no weapon) was the first introduced and happened sometime relatively shortly after the breaking. Source? I got my info from the wotwiki, which cites The Great Hunt. There is also a slight deviation from the companion book that says they were all in place by the end of the trolloc war but I personally take the book text as canon over the supplemental materials. https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Three_Oaths
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Nov 24, 2021 19:08
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The Lord Bude posted:Not true - they were phased in gradually but the oldest of them (the oath to make no weapon) was the first introduced and happened sometime relatively shortly after the breaking. Not necessarily true. "That we sear these oaths, that we are known to be bound, allows the nations to deal with us without fearing that we will throw up our own power, the One Power, against them. Between the Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years we made these choices, and because of them the White Tower still stands." Sheriam explaining the oaths to Nyneave in The Great Hunt. Of course this is all subject to the whole unreliable narrator thing. The wiki says that the Companion says that the three oaths were all in place by the end of the trolloc wars. But as far as I know, it doesn't say anything about the no weapon oath being right after the breaking.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:10
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eke out posted:relevant to my above point: I... guess that's fine? It's not like we're #nochanges here, so backstory is just as apt to change as actual story.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:12
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buffalo all day posted:So, the AMA is actually great and addresses a lot of concerns that folks ITT have raised. Rafe is definitely down to answer real, serious questions. Highly recommend reading it, it’s in r/television. Redditor: "Who's playing Selene?" Rafe: "Lanfear" Yup, gotta say this is a pretty good AMA so far.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:13
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bio347 posted:I suppose you get here by un-gendering Gitara's Foretelling? not particularly hard, it starts "He is born again!" and is literally referring to Lews Therin Telamon, a guy -- you could read the gendered pronouns to be referring to LTT not the specific incarnation eke out fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 19:16
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Rand is cracking under the pressure before he even declares himself the Dragon Reborn and before any madness starts effecting him so there's no reason why a woman wouldn't be susceptible to that kind of stuff too. No where do the prophecies say "the dragon will go mad from channeling" only that they will bring destruction. In fact being a mega nerd and looking at the Karaethon Cycle the only time the word "madness" is used is in reference to the Dragon "healing the wounds of madness" in cleansing the source. I like the idea, it just seems a little underdeveloped. Like, IIRC in EotW, revealing that Rand can channel is supposed to be the big oh poo poo, it's him moment. And in the show, Moiraine wakes up Egwene to introduce her to the basics of channeling and the world of Aes Sedai... and then they go back to sleep. It feels like overall things should be going down just a little bit differently if they truly believed the Dragon could be reborn as a woman. Are there women False Dragons? Do the Reds still hunt them? And from a characterization perspective - I always liked that of the Emond's Fielders, the three boys were more or less forced/tricked/coerced into leaving, while Nynaeve and Egwene both chose to leave for their own reasons. I thought it was a nice little introduction to the concept of Ta'veren and the overarching themes of Power vs Agency in the series. Pocky In My Pocket posted:Rafes AMA has started. He said the aielman in the cage wasnt gaul. Crisis averted.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:17
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quote:
Lol he even answered why they moved where the ruby is on the stupid dagger (people couldn’t see it on screen)
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Nov 24, 2021 19:22
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quote:Have you cast Aviendha yet? !!!
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Nov 24, 2021 19:28
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Rarity posted:!!! Somebody better follow up and ask if she's a smoke show.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:29
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tell us who aviendha is, rafe
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Nov 24, 2021 19:30
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eke out posted:tell us who aviendha is, rafe The answer is in your post, if you add a wig
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Nov 24, 2021 19:47
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Source? I got my info from the wotwiki, which cites The Great Hunt. There is also a slight deviation from the companion book that says they were all in place by the end of the trolloc war but I personally take the book text as canon over the supplemental materials. One of Semirhage's reasons for turning was she didn't want to be bound by an oath rod. It may be that she was finally caught out as being a psychopath who enjoys hurting people and was being punished but my reading was that the Aes Sedai were voluntarily binding themselves and she thought they were insane for doing so. If she's telling the truth then there was at least one oath pre-breaking.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:50
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uPen posted:One of Semirhage's reasons for turning was she didn't want to be bound by an oath rod. It may be that she was finally caught out as being a psychopath who enjoys hurting people and was being punished but my reading was that the Aes Sedai were voluntarily binding themselves and she thought they were insane for doing so. If she's telling the truth then there was at least one oath pre-breaking. Your reading is wrong and the first thing you wrote was right.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:50
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https://old.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/comments/r1at65/interesting_bits_from_rafes_ama/ Pretty good compilation of the better questions that got answered.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:51
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uPen posted:One of Semirhage's reasons for turning was she didn't want to be bound by an oath rod. It may be that she was finally caught out as being a psychopath who enjoys hurting people and was being punished but my reading was that the Aes Sedai were voluntarily binding themselves and she thought they were insane for doing so. If she's telling the truth then there was at least one oath pre-breaking. per the wiki, that wasn't when all aes sedai were binding themselves, that was because her sadist poo poo got found out and the Oath Rod was the punishment to get her to stop doing it
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Nov 24, 2021 19:51
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Age of legends oath rod was a punishment for criminals. Like probation without an officer.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:52
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