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spectralent posted:I think we're a little more decimalised, or it's maybe generational; heights and short distances in meters, car drives in miles. Weights are pretty universally in kg. Fluids in litres, except for the venerable pint. 
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Nov 24, 2021 16:39
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Oh, yeah. I do engineering data work for land surveying companies. Some of the projects done in Canada are just terrible - they'd measure some parts of the project in feet, some in meters, and put them in the same plan with no clear demarcation. So you'll see for example, a power line with measurements running down the line in 100 meter increments but also 1/8 mile-markers - on land that is divided up in mile squares measured in meters and annotated in feet. It's maddening.
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Nov 24, 2021 16:59
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 Here in Australia everything has been metric since the 60s and the only thing people refer to in imperial is their own bodily height, which I blame on metric not having a widespread intermediate measurement between centimeters and meters. Bring back decimeters imo
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Nov 24, 2021 22:41
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To bring this back to wargaming, I don't have a problem with using inches for movement because centimeters are a little too granular for most games. That said, I hate the insistence of most rules that you should use a 6x4 foot table. That's enormous, and I've never seen someone have a dining room table that large. Do people in the UK just have these enormous tables lying about the place?
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Nov 24, 2021 22:45
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Endman posted:To bring this back to wargaming, I don't have a problem with using inches for movement because centimeters are a little too granular for most games. I would imagine with European houses being smaller that this would be even more of a problem.
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Nov 24, 2021 22:57
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Endman posted:To bring this back to wargaming, I don't have a problem with using inches for movement because centimeters are a little too granular for most games. Yeah, that always irritated me as well. I lived in the UK for two years, and the number of friends I had there who had plenty of space in their homes for a 6' x 4' gaming table (or even a dining table around the same size) could be counted on one hand. And you wouldn't use all five fingers on that hand, either. I'm guessing most of the guys who came up with the rules about table size either had dedicated gaming clubs that rented space out somewhere, or grew up with parents who had enough money to afford a fully detached house or something.
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Nov 24, 2021 23:01
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 First two groups for Sharp Practice done 
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Nov 24, 2021 23:08
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Wait, y'all don't use a decommissioned ping-pong table?
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Nov 25, 2021 00:13
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Endman posted:To bring this back to wargaming, I don't have a problem with using inches for movement because centimeters are a little too granular for most games. My grandparents used to have a massive table like that, but they're the only ones I knew to do so; no house I've been in has had a 6x4 table for years. And I say this having been in houses with large tables, ones that covered for 6-8 people, which are still typically about 3-ish across instead! Arquinsiel posted:IIRC the UK recently changed the law so it's legal to do weight in Imperial again. This is going to bring the imperial revivalist movement up against the widespread scepticism of why you'd actually want to bring it back, of course. Also in measurements 
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Nov 25, 2021 01:23
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Endman posted:
Well, also cups and spoons for cooking as per the Canadian flowchart. But yeah, I'm glad Australia is at least a little more sane, on this topic! Since drat, that's bad - especially what Cessna mentioned
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Nov 25, 2021 02:08
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Endman posted:That said, I hate the insistence of most rules that you should use a 6x4 foot table. That's enormous, and I've never seen someone have a dining room table that large. Do people in the UK just have these enormous tables lying about the place? Warlord games seem to assume you have an 8x6 foot table! I saw a Diorama at Gettysburg of the *entire* battlefield that I think was smaller.
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Nov 25, 2021 08:18
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Comstar posted:Warlord games seem to assume you have an 8x6 foot table! I saw a Diorama at Gettysburg of the *entire* battlefield that I think was smaller. A lot of the guys in the Warlord circle plays at the Perrys, on their enormous tables.
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Nov 25, 2021 09:31
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Having lived in Nottingham for a while, it’s kind of bizarre how much of historical wargaming is concentrated there. I used to regularly walk by the business park in which Warlord, North Star Military Figures, and a couple of other mini companies were located; Battlefront’s warehouse is right beside a nature preserve I used to visit semi-regularly; and I saw the Perrys occasionally at pubs in town.
MeinPanzer fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Nov 25, 2021 |
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Nov 25, 2021 10:08
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Pretty sure the UK based wargames rules that ask for 6x4 (or 8x4, like GW used to) are just expecting you to play in clubs. Ireland is similar, except for personal weight we use stone.
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Nov 25, 2021 13:26
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Back in the day the advice from GW was get two big bits of chipboard, 2x6 and perch them precariously on any small surface, while desperately trying not to put too much weight on the hanging ends.
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Nov 25, 2021 13:35
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Which, hilariously, was where you deployed a child's bodyweight in metal carnifexes and termagants.
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Nov 25, 2021 13:38
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Table chat: we're house hunting and part of our requirements is a space big enough to full size game in because cramming painting, 3d printing, storage and play space into one bedroom sucks rear end.
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Nov 25, 2021 15:37
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Comstar posted:Warlord games seem to assume you have an 8x6 foot table! I saw a Diorama at Gettysburg of the *entire* battlefield that I think was smaller. Almost every ACW scenario in Black Powder calls for a 10x14 table 
alg fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Nov 25, 2021 |
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Nov 25, 2021 15:51
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You don't need a permanent huge table. I got two plywood plates, 3x2 each, made for me at a hardware store for next to nothing. I put them on top of my dining room table and put a mat over. Neatly tuck them behind a cabinet when not in use. Regulation size nerd table on demand, takes no storage space, costs almost nothing.
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Nov 25, 2021 18:26
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Do you mean 3x4 there?
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Nov 25, 2021 18:41
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I think the anxiety that id lean on the wrong part of the table and cause everything to come crashing down would be paralyzing for me. I use four folding tables placed together to make a 12x5 table. I would usually set this up in my back yard but last year during the pandemic I purged my garage and now have enough space to set it up there. The gaming room on little wars tv is what I aspire to, but having enough house space in California to pull that off is basically impossible.
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Nov 25, 2021 18:51
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Class Warcraft posted:I think the anxiety that id lean on the wrong part of the table and cause everything to come crashing down would be paralyzing for me. Yeah I've got an EPS topper now used over a lovely thrift store dining table and this is a constant threat as it overhangs by like a foot+ on each side.
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Nov 25, 2021 18:56
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I just did it the other way. Built a sturdy 6x4 table, then just put a tablecloth over it.
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Nov 25, 2021 19:50
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If I want to make a Bolt Action army list for 8th army in North Africa (from Operation Crusader to Tunisia), what rule books exactly do I need? I can't find anywhere to tell me - do I need the main rule book AND the British army book AND the North Africa campaign one? And if I want to use more than 1 tank, I think I need Tank Wars as well?
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Nov 27, 2021 07:29
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Comstar posted:If I want to make a Bolt Action army list for 8th army in North Africa (from Operation Crusader to Tunisia), what rule books exactly do I need? I can't find anywhere to tell me - do I need the main rule book AND the British army book AND the North Africa campaign one? And if I want to use more than 1 tank, I think I need Tank Wars as well? You'd want the British army book, Duel in the Sun, and Western Desert. You don't need Tank Wars.
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Nov 27, 2021 07:39
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Class Warcraft posted:You'd want the British army book, Duel in the Sun, and Western Desert. You don't need Tank Wars. Follow up question- which book covers what army list? I'm confused on what's spread across all 3 books.
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Nov 27, 2021 11:01
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Napoleonics is great. But also sometimes, Napoleonics is especially napolonics. For my French 6eme chasseurs a cheval, the musicians are wearing Polish czapka instead of anything close to regulation headgear. So the plastic kit won't help you there. Instead, I dug out some of Warlords Vistula legion heads that I had left over (since that kit is hilariously wrong). Bring out the green stuff! I needed to add a new plume, a pompom, a cord and some raquettes (a.k.a flounders).    Close enough. Lesson learned: make the raquettes first, and let them cure before doing the rest. You will deform them a lot as you attach them. Also, using superglue to keep small green stuff details in place before they cure is a good idea.
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Nov 27, 2021 11:51
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Comstar posted:Follow up question- which book covers what army list? I'm confused on what's spread across all 3 books. If you go to https://wg.easyarmy.com you can see all the platoon lists and which source book it's from. You need to make an account but it's free to use once you do.
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Nov 27, 2021 15:52
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Comstar posted:Follow up question- which book covers what army list? I'm confused on what's spread across all 3 books. The British army book has the special rules for the British army, their units, and some selectors across the whole war. Selectors are basically the army lists for different battles. Duel in the Sun and Western Desert are campaign books that drill down into specific campaigns and add new units and selectors. Duel in the Sun covers all of the North African campaign, Greece, Crete, and the invasion of Italy. Western Desert focuses just on the early North African campaign.
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Nov 27, 2021 18:07
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I actually have a purpose made 4 x 6 gaming table from the now defunct Table of Ultimate Gaming folks. I kickstarted it. I actually really regret getting the 4 x 6 instead of the 3.5 x 5, because 4 feet in width is actually too large to play most games comfortably, especially if they are smaller or standard sized boardgames.
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Nov 27, 2021 22:57
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Springfield Fatts posted:If you go to https://wg.easyarmy.com you can see all the platoon lists and which source book it's from. You need to make an account but it's free to use once you do. OMG that makes it so easy! Thank you Goonsir!
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Nov 28, 2021 04:49
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A question for anyone who plays Lasalle/General d'Armee/Black Power/etc: what basing scheme do you use for 28mm figures? I have 45mm x 40mm bases for six infantry figures each, which I think is a decent compromise between realism/aesthetics and utility, and I generally mount a gun on the same, but facing the short end and with separately based crew. I haven't worked out what I would do for cavalry however. I know most people do Napoleonics with a 20x20mm space per man, but I think that looks too sparse. Thoughts? e: also how many bases do you use per battalion? I'm leaning towards 3 due to space constraints.
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Nov 28, 2021 06:32
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I’m doing 32 man battalions, with six on a 50x50. Because I like to complicate things, and so I can go slightly wider, have some bases to detach for skirmishes etc, the flank company troops are based two to a 25x50. So that goes: 2,2,6,6,6,6,2,2 Looks good so far, and means you can visually distinguish line, assault column and march file while still looking good.
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Nov 28, 2021 10:35
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Endman posted:A question for anyone who plays Lasalle/General d'Armee/Black Power/etc: what basing scheme do you use for 28mm figures? I thought most rules dictate how big the stands need to be. I do 6 infantry/3 cav/1 gun+4 figures myself. 8 infantry on a stand looks amazing, but that's a lot more painting involved. quote:e: also how many bases do you use per battalion? I'm leaning towards 3 due to space constraints. Infantry needs to be 4 units so you can form a square. One stand is light company on the left, one stand is grenadier, one for the commander/flag/drummer and one centre company is what I do.
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Nov 28, 2021 10:51
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15mm per dude is about as small as you can go. Jonas and the other big boi in our club is using 45x50 (or even 55) I think. The xtra depth gives a nice spacing in columns, and also makes poses that are not marching less likely to poke each other. For Sharp Practice 2 we use 20mm round bases in sabots that allow them to stand edge to edge. That looks pretty good but is still to sparse to look right imho. Then there are the people who base on 25mm bases and use sabots with spacers between the bases, and let’s just say that I would never personally go for that. Imperial Bayonets gives the width per man as British: 22”, French: 26”, and Russian: 27” but for everyone it’s elbow to elbow so the size of the individual soldier decides the actual spacing. The soldiers have to be able to feel each other so they can maintain a straight line and unit cohesion without turning their heads. If you scale those spacing to 1/56 which is 28mm scale you would end up with about 10mm for the British and about 12mm for the French and Russians.
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Nov 28, 2021 11:16
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Thanks for those great answers! I’ll definitely stick with 15mm per man, and I guess I’ll have to go with enough bases to form square without it looking silly. It’d also be nice to be able to depict flank companies without it looking strange.
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Nov 28, 2021 11:44
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Nappy base chat! To start with, luckily most modern rulesets have realized that most players have a lot of based minis already, so the mandatory base size is typically something you'll find in older rulesest made for and by men with suspenders. Secondly, most rulesets that asks for a specific basing style works ok even using other basing styles as long as both armies are somewhat similar. For example, lasalle 2 assumes each unit is four bases, but ours are mostly six, but a small amount of imagination solves any issues since the resolution mechanics are so abstract. So these days basing is becoming more and more about aesthetics and how many minis you want to paint. That said, having an even number of bases per unit/battalion is usually simpler, as a key part of the period's tactics is switching between line, various types of columns and squares. A three base battalion will probably work, but simply look a bit odd in a march column. With that said, here's my own take on it: I like battalions that are about 30-40 minis. This is purely an aesthetic thing. 24 minis battalions is perfectly fine and means you'll be able to field more units on a smaller table. You'll also need to buy and paint fewer minis. With that said, I just think a 36 man infantry battalion looks much better than a 24 man battalion. And I'm painting 28mm for the aestetics: if I wanted to be practical, I'd stay with 6mm.  One of my 36 man battalions, Vistula Legion.  Some dude's 16 man battalion. Very nice painting, and probably super practical, but not my bag. Within the 30-40 man range I then divide it depending on the number of companys. The French later 6 company structure lends itself well to six bases of six minis. With prussians for example you might want four bases of eight. Even if that's not the exact same number, as long as the battalions are somewhat in the same ballpark when lined up, you're fine in most (reasonable) rulesets. As for width, I know that 20x20 per man is a common stable for many collectors, but I don't like it. It's too wide for the period, and I want the guys to look really bunched up. 15mm per man is the smallest width that you'll probably get away with for practical reasons. So I use 45mm wide bases with six man per base. For depth, that's typically far less important for gameplay. So here it's mostly an aesthetic option. Again lots of people do 20mm depth per mini, but after some experimentation I go deeper. Most of my minis are on 50mm depth, but I also have some with even 55mm after a misplaced order. Deeper bases has two advantages: It leaves more room for your basing to be seen, and it leaves more room for odd poses. 20mm depth per man works just fine if your men are all in marching poses, but you're in trouble if any of those men are marching with lowered bayonets or shooting. You're much more likely to get your bayonets broken or, even worse, snag a base on a sleeve and send it flying if you have shallow bases.  Here's an example from my French with very deep bases. Victrix comes with lots of "action poses", reloading or skirmishing minis. Those work much better on deep bases. If some of the minis are a tad wider, a deeper base also leaves some room to stagger the minis so that they can fit on a 15mm width. Artillery! Here I'm full on avant-garde. I'm not happy with the hobby standards. Pretty much everyone base their artillery with a super tiny footprint compared to the space an artillery battery would take. Looking at the French artillery, depending on what source you're reading, they would take up roughly half to over two thirds of a battalion deployed in line. Exact width differed in the European armies and would also be affected by the terrain, but generally a good artillery commander would spread out the guns to prevent unneccessary losses from counter-artillery. And they would take up roughly the same space in depth as they took up in width. Taking that in mind, you'll quickly get a weird OCD itch when looking at most based artillery. My solution is again to go deep. 60mm x 120 mm bases per gun, and then I make one gun model per two actual guns. That gives you a battery that takes up slightly less space in width than a battalion. Add some caissons and limbers behind, and you soon have a nice deep formation. That said, most rules don't really take that in consideration, so if you go this maximalist route you might need to fudge things a bit. Cavalry should also be ”boot to boot” in this period. In practical terms that typically means 20mm width per horse. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 12:11
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zokie posted:
Yeah you literally maintain the line by feeling the press of the shoulders of your left and right comrades on yours, and the ranks by humping the cartouche of the man in front of you. One of the struggles of 28mm is how pretty they look vs how difficult it is to show real formations.
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Nov 28, 2021 15:15
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Has anyone ever done 28mm minis like the Warlord Epic strips of guys? They look perfect lined up.
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Nov 28, 2021 15:46
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Forge World did some Krieg troops like that for loading into a Not D-Day landing craft, but that's literally tge only time I have seen it.
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Nov 28, 2021 17:18
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