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Jerusalem posted:It made me look up the character and discover an absolutely fascinating historical figure, so I really like it...Sydney would be so happy the show is fulfilling one of its original purposes! https://twitter.com/MaxCCurtis/status/1463900800795750402
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Nov 26, 2021 00:33
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Jerusalem posted:This is one of those voiceover parody things from a British quiz show or something right, a comedian putting ludicrous lines over stock footage of an MP right? There's no way this is an actual real thing that a real politician really said, right? RIGHT!?! That MP who got murdered last month was previously most famous for asking the Home Office about what they were doing to combat the rise of the use of the drug "cake".
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Nov 26, 2021 00:38
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Ahaha, that's amazing. Also that colorization is really good, although it reminded me that the photos taken on set for The War Games showed everything was insanely brightly colored in order to look good in black and white, and I kinda half-wish they'd recreated the "original" colors 
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Nov 26, 2021 01:03
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Maxwell Lord posted:I’m legit curious as to why you think it’s that bad, other than an inconsistent application of the Rules. Like is it something wrong with the characters or themes? I'm not much of one for deep media analysis, you want themes and whatnot you're talking to the wrong poster, I'm not writing a high school book report. I'm watching entertainment for the story, this story did not engage me. It was bad because I didnt enjoy it, I didnt enjoy it because it was bad. I posted about the angels because a) its the easiest thing to point out, and b) the episode is largely about the angels (and c) nitpicking is fun when they make it so drat easy). But sure, for the sake of argument lets put to one side the episode loudly stating how the angels work and then immediately ignoring that, maybe I'm wrong and thats excellent storytelling instead of just sloppy writing. Me I like my stories to have internal logic, and see it as a storytelling problem when the villain can just do whatever ignoring their in universe limitations. How will the heroes escape I fail to wonder because there is no point considering it because gently caress it, they can just move whenever and if you brush against them you're hosed even if they are currently a statue. So, some of my other problems with the episode include, in no particular order; Some things I think they thought were twists were very much not; The little girl was the old lady, and if you didnt suspect that the old lady was a previous angel victim from her first or maybe second line then I dont know what to tell you. When they failed to introduce any other possible characters she could be it was then extremely obvious. Oh, and the weeping angel turned out to be a baddy after all and betray the doctor? How unexpected for one of the angels, who have never been shown to be anything other than vicious ambush predators, to in fact be the baddy. I found parts of it tedious; The scene on the exposition beach where the doctor and angel talked went on for, and I didnt check this precisely, but possibly 5 or 6 hours. All in shades of grey while we got alternating head and shoulders shots of the person talking which is like the second least interesting way of filming a conversation after just pointing a camera at the actors and calling it a day. Some stuff felt like it kind of happened because they had an idea for a cool scene and worked backwards; The angels are in the walls of the tunnel! For no particular reason, it doesnt make any real sense for them to be in the walls of the tunnel, but someone thought the image of the arms reaching out the walls would look cool and so it has to happen in the episode. To be honest the whole "You have a tunnel in your house you didnt know about, but is still very easy for us to access!" thing was faintly silly in a way I'd forgive in a better episode but by the time it happened I wasnt giving benefits of the doubt. And frankly, "The Angels are a hit squad sent by the Authority" or whatever was so ridiculous that it did make me laugh, so if thats what they were going for then it absolutely landed, but I suspect it wasnt. It was like if at the end of Jaws they'd very earnestly revealed that the shark was working for the CIA. Theres other stuff too, but I'm holding off on things like "Wait, if the angel infestation was actually a hit squad targeting the one woman with an angel in her brain (which she got because she is a clairvoyant who had a vision of an angel), why had they also disappeared that same village in 1903?" in case that gets explained this week, and stuff like "the side story with Bel and Jinder absolutely broke up any semblance of flow the main plot had and didnt feel like it had any ties to the main plot other than moving pieces to where they need to be for the finale" is more of a symptom of this series than it is this specific episode. Was the entire episode irredeemable? No, of course not. Much like the rest of the episodes this season there were a half dozen decent ideas in there, it just didnt do any of them justice. The main cast and professor did what they could with the material, and some of the stuff with the professor and the TV screen was legit good (although I did have a "Holy poo poo, did you just invoke the holocaust in your sub par doctor who script" moment when the professor compared the angels to... It was either Dresden or Belsen). It wasnt the worst episode of Doctor Who ever or anything, and arguably it wasnt even the worst episode so far this season (I would go so far as to say its in the top 4 this year). If someone liked it, I'm pleased for them and I'm not going to argue with them that they shouldnt like it. But them liking it doesnt change the fact that I didnt.
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Nov 26, 2021 01:14
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The angel should have talked through the head scanner machine. It would have been more scary, normal brain impulses, then jolts,then...........I......H........HE.....HELL.........HELLO from it.
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Nov 26, 2021 02:45
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MrL_JaKiri posted:It's not so much that they kept it out of the programme as much as it was cancelled before they got there Lungbarrow was not cancelled, per se. It was the first draft of Ghost Light. They very wisely said "if we set this on Earth and make the spooky house Ace's backstory rather than the Doctor's, it will be filmable."
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Nov 26, 2021 12:43
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Senor Tron posted:It's the classic storytelling rule that one unlikely thing is a great kickoff point, while a series just feels convenientally coincidental and unsatisfying. Or the "which caused/because/and so" style of writing rule. That’s an interesting story, which is itself a massive retcon. One was never a Time Lord and wasn’t originally experiencing a personal journey of discovery after stealing a TARDIS (Susan named it “the TARDIS” and there is no indication that another one exists, making it as likely that he owned the thing). The War Games is largely responsible for the retcon, with some additional details added in afterward, especially during Four and Five’s run. If you like that story better, fine, but it was not the original story, it was a Timeless Child level retcon that you either liked better at the time it happened, or grew up with and thus never perceived as a retcon at all. Depending on what Chibnall and his successors make of the Timeless Child retcon, in forty years someone may be defending it against whatever the latest retcon is. Very clearly, the change doesn’t make the Doctor a founder of Time Lord society, it makes her an exploited alien who was enslaved, experimented upon, and then brainwashed into thinking she was a Time Lord. That doesn’t undo the other character arc, it deepens it. I can see where someone could object on a number of grounds, but suggesting that this erases the context of the “original story” when it decidedly does not is a pretty weak claim. Objecting to the change on the grounds of identity politics—that the Doctor’s resistance to corruption and tyranny has to be coupled with her own oppressed status or it doesn’t count—would be a stronger objection, and I can think of about half a dozen other strong objections. This one has a strange mixture of fictional and metafictional claims and works better if the objection is limited to Chibnall not finding the current “Doctor was an orphan on Gallifrey who rose to importance, rebelled, stole a TARDIS and gradually came to be a hero” narrative rich enough instead of making claims about the series story claiming an intent which did not exist. RTD didn’t plan for Day of the Doctor and thought that the Doctor had pressed the button, but the fictional story works perfectly well as seen on screen despite that, because the Doctor is the only one in a position to know better and doesn’t.
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Nov 26, 2021 16:22
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The amount of fun that a viewer can have with Doctor Who - any doctor, any series, any show runner, any script writer - is going to be inversely proportional to the degree of internal consistency and coherence that they demand from the show. The show is a chaotic mess of paradoxes and rewrites and contradictions. That's the show's strength, or it can be if you let it. This is not to say that there aren't bad episodes, or plot holes, but to treat a monster's appearance from like a decade ago under a different showrunner as some kind of binding orthodoxy to get mad about is just pissing in your own cereal. e. this is in reference to the weeping angels thing. The timeless child thing is dumb.
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Nov 26, 2021 16:24
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Just to expand on the apparent contradiction between my post and my edit above too One of the main reasons the timeless child stuff is dumb is that it seems to be trying to impose a canon and orthodoxy on the show. Doctor Who "canon" (a concept I loathe for fiction) is English Common Law - a messy historical tradition - and Chibnal seems to be trying to rewite it part of it as a civil code.
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Nov 26, 2021 16:34
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Lungbarrow was not cancelled, per se. It was the first draft of Ghost Light. They very wisely said "if we set this on Earth and make the spooky house Ace's backstory rather than the Doctor's, it will be filmable." This explains a lot about Ghost Light.
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Nov 26, 2021 17:00
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CommonShore posted:Just to expand on the apparent contradiction between my post and my edit above too I'm not sure to how that's different to what Dicks, Holmes, or Moffat did in terms of retcon to Timelord society or the Doctor. This is all approaching "What Has Happened To The Magic Of Doctor Who?" territory tbh.
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Nov 26, 2021 19:46
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Jerusalem posted:It made me look up the character and discover an absolutely fascinating historical figure, so I really like it...Sydney would be so happy the show is fulfilling one of its original purposes! Granted "he had a bunch of very strange tunnels dug under Liverpool and we have no idea why" is the kind of explanation that only makes things even more confusing.
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Nov 26, 2021 19:50
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There haven't been any explanations because they haven't gotten to the character's episode yet, that's all IMO.
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Nov 26, 2021 20:19
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Glad to see the general rule that "no matter how bad/stupid/lovely something is, there will always be someone who likes it and will defend it" continues to hold true to this day
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Nov 26, 2021 20:26
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Glad to see the general rule that "no matter how bad/stupid/lovely something is, there will always be someone who likes it and will defend it" continues to hold true to this day I think somebody even once said they like Delta and the Bannermen once!  I mean, they lied, but they still said it!
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Nov 26, 2021 23:21
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Glad to see the general rule that "no matter how bad/stupid/lovely something is, there will always be someone who likes it and will defend it" continues to hold true to this day No one has ever said they liked and defended "Nekromantia".
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Nov 26, 2021 23:32
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Davros1 posted:No one has ever said they liked and defended "Nekromantia". I Googled "Nekromanteia" and here's one of the first results (emphasis mine): quote:So the infamous Nekromanteia, a story so vile that Peter Davison insisted the writer never work for Big Finish again and one that appears to have left scores of listeners in need of therapy or at the very least a big hug. I was fully prepared to hate it and was expecting to do so but I am sorry to report that the whole thing was rather enjoyable and the content was nowhere near as disturbing as the previous reviews would have you believe, somewhat akin to being warned about a ferocious dog only to be confronted by a neurotic poodle.
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Nov 27, 2021 00:21
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There is a decent story in Nekromanteia and it's The Caves Of Androzani. I'm not kidding.
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Nov 27, 2021 00:51
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Jerusalem posted:I think somebody even once said they like Delta and the Bannermen once! It's the second best story of that season! (Which is admittedly a very, very low bar.)
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Nov 27, 2021 21:04
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Finally watched the latest ep, it was good?‽!
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Nov 27, 2021 22:33
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cargohills posted:It's the second best story of that season! (Which is admittedly a very, very low bar.) The spine of the Target novel misspells the title as Delta and the Bannerman. However, on the inside is one of the great Doctor Who typos:  I need to find a copy of The Doctors: Thirty Years of Time Travel, which mentions the planet Dido but accidentally inserts an L. Action Jacktion fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Nov 27, 2021 |
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Nov 27, 2021 22:42
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I know the wilderness years got wild, but man the Doctor pissing in the open and snorting coke is a new one.
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Nov 27, 2021 23:18
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I don't like imagining the doctor pissing and making GBS threads. I previously kind of assumed the tardis vortex took care of that or something else timelordy. The fact it shits and pisses means there's certainly a plot or alien or something out in the universe that'll have to revolve around the doctor's expulsions. Someone out there making time grenades out of timelord piss and poo poo.
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Nov 28, 2021 01:56
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https://twitter.com/the_beasthouse/status/1464750303421648897
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Nov 28, 2021 02:01
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FINALLY the true origin of why the Silence were created.
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Nov 28, 2021 02:13
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Khanstant posted:I don't like imagining the doctor pissing and making GBS threads. I previously kind of assumed the tardis vortex took care of that or something else timelordy. The fact it shits and pisses means there's certainly a plot or alien or something out in the universe that'll have to revolve around the doctor's expulsions. Someone out there making time grenades out of timelord piss and poo poo. My Doctor Who/Death Stranding slash fic???
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Nov 28, 2021 02:28
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Jerusalem posted:I think somebody even once said they like Delta and the Bannermen once! It’s easy to enjoy bad things as well as good ones, without necessarily believing that they’re good. The pleasure of Doctor Who, which has been increasingly curtailed in the new run of the show, is that however awful the episode you just watched was, there will be another one ‘round in a little while. They aren’t all Twin Dilemma and City of Death, either; often you’re getting The Android Invasion or The Visitation. I like bits of Delta and the Bannermen, but I wouldn’t claim it was a great episode. Sort of like Creature from the Pit, really: it doesn’t pull off what it wants to do, but as mad as the concept was, it was worth a shot. My brief review would be “largely inoffensive, wastes several of its guest stars, beekeeper might be Time Lord”. Actually, that could account for Season 6bee.
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Nov 28, 2021 02:38
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Part of what I dislike about Delta and the Bannermen is that among all the awful subplots, terrible characters, baffling decisions, nonsensical plotpoints, and at times pointless cruelty, you can see there the germ of some really interesting ideas. The Doctor and proto-Ace awkwardly dancing is a wonderful moment, and you could probably tell an utterly fascinating story about the Doctor being stuck in a holiday camp.... they just.... didn't.  Narsham posted:Actually, that could account for Season 6bee. We're on to something here, people!
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Nov 28, 2021 03:10
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Jerusalem posted:awful subplots, terrible characters, baffling decisions, nonsensical plotpoints, and at times pointless cruelty
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Nov 28, 2021 10:52
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There's still some really good stuff in there (and a lot of bad) but yeah, good God the music during that period was.... rough.
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Nov 28, 2021 10:58
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Khanstant posted:I don't like imagining the doctor pissing and making GBS threads. I previously kind of assumed the tardis vortex took care of that or something else timelordy. The fact it shits and pisses means there's certainly a plot or alien or something out in the universe that'll have to revolve around the doctor's expulsions. Someone out there making time grenades out of timelord piss and poo poo. There’s a waste tank on Deck 7 of the TARDIS, although you wouldn’t have noticed that line because you were probably still laughing at Capaldi doing the perfect “bigger on the inside” speech.
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Nov 28, 2021 11:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr4tZcTLNI4
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Nov 28, 2021 11:51
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https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1464972432700321794?s=20
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Nov 28, 2021 17:40
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I know its nothing new, but... Has the show started at the same time twice so far this season?
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Nov 28, 2021 19:25
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 at the aggressive blinking
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Nov 28, 2021 19:30
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I believe "Cover the dynamite with a couple of rugs" is the first thing police learn at Hendon.
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Nov 28, 2021 19:34
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Oh gently caress off with this poo poo.
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Nov 28, 2021 19:48
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Ugh. It was going fine until they had to that bullshit.
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Nov 28, 2021 19:50
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Hey it's the Master! 
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Nov 28, 2021 19:53
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Some bits of this episode are pretty good, but unfortunately everything involving the actual doctor this week is absolute guff.
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Nov 28, 2021 20:09
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