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Mr. Nemo posted:What? I'm not american. Not sure if you are british or american, but please, don't overestimate how relevant that kind of event is to the rest of the world. It's a defining moment in both religious tolerance while still fueling sectarianism between Catholics and Protestants globally (kinda...) Additionally, it was one of the first instances of a parliament or congressional body having more power then a monarch in the modern era, and the reforms made would become foundational to modern governmental theories. It's definitely not a locally contained civil war. I'm also a little surprised, given this, that it was not taught universally.
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Nov 28, 2021 20:23
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Mr. Nemo posted:What? I'm not american. Not sure if you are british or american, but please, don't overestimate how relevant that kind of event is to the rest of the world.
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Nov 28, 2021 20:24
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Frankly, I am surprised at your surprise 
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Nov 28, 2021 20:30
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Eh, I guess I will disagree, and the local education board body or whatever too. As i remember it my european history went romans, quick overview of medieval stuff and then french revolution, and that's where we got into monarchy vs republic and it's impact on a global scale. Maybe we covered one of the oter wars with the dutch and spanish involved. I'd make a bet cromwell never came up.
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Nov 28, 2021 20:33
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Mr. Nemo posted:Eh, I guess I will disagree, and the local education board body or whatever too. how can you disagree when you didn't study it??
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Nov 28, 2021 20:39
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Mr. Nemo posted:quick overview of medieval stuff and then french revolution
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Nov 28, 2021 20:50
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I don't care who knows about what, but the idea that someone who didn't know England had a civil war wanted to read Paradise Lost is funny to me. Like how do you develop that kind of interest without exposure to the history
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Nov 28, 2021 20:56
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Sham bam bamina! posted:The English Civil War is how you get from "medieval stuff" to "French Revolution". Unless you're from a place where other, more culturally significant stuff happened - nationally or otherwise - particularly around that time? The English Civil War is not equally significant to every (country's) culture...
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Nov 28, 2021 21:06
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Lex Neville posted:Unless you're from a place where other, more culturally significant stuff happened - nationally or otherwise - particularly around that time? The English Civil War is not equally significant to every (country's) culture... I guess this is a non-eurocentric argument, which is fair, but the OP then cited his schooling doing the "European classics" but excluding one of the top 3 colonizing European counties having a global impact so I mean, no, I don't think that tracks.
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Nov 28, 2021 21:43
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But... you don't know what the local curricular "competition" is to the English Civil War, do you?
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Nov 28, 2021 21:57
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Famethrowa posted:how can you disagree when you didn't study it?? Yes, it’s a funny situation. To change my mind I would’ve had to be exposed to it during my schooling, which is a bit impossible now. Ras Het posted:I don't care who knows about what, but the idea that someone who didn't know England had a civil war wanted to read Paradise Lost is funny to me. Like how do you develop that kind of interest without exposure to the history I do agree that it probably that it makes a different reading experience, but i don’t agree that it’s that bizarre.it’s a major work of literature. Sham bam bamina! posted:The English Civil War is how you get from "medieval stuff" to "French Revolution". Yes, and apparently it was decided it was less relevant that other stuff. I have to admit I can’t tule on whether it was the right call or not, due to my own ignorance. We did touch upon the Magna Carta for that “limiting the kings” stuff. Edit: to get back to it, any shortish read about why the English civil war is relevant to PL? The footnotes touches a bit on it, but I could read some more Mr. Nemo fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 22:38
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from English history I briefly remember something or other about the war of the roses, which isn't the thing you are arguing about, and I can still function as an adult and understand things like The Enlightenment and the French revolution as an example, most of what I know about the Dreyfus affair I got from Proust first. it's not the end of the world
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Nov 28, 2021 22:43
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Ras Het posted:I don't care who knows about what, but the idea that someone who didn't know England had a civil war wanted to read Paradise Lost is funny to me. Like how do you develop that kind of interest without exposure to the history I dunno about the other poster, but someone told me to quit being a loving child read some real literature and I took it to heart.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:00
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Sham bam bamina! posted:The English Civil War is how you get from "medieval stuff" to "French Revolution". I'm not disputing the importance of the English Civil War in establishing the idea of parliamentarism in Europe but by that metric you'd be much better off studying the French Wars of Religion, the Fronde, etc.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:15
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Yeah, I didn't mean that the English Civil War was a direct cause of the French Revolution, more that it was extremely fitting for the chronological and political/philosophical gap there. Apologies for the glib overstatement.
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Nov 29, 2021 01:09
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The new Wole Soyinka isn't very good and I'm returning it to the library.
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Nov 29, 2021 04:31
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A human heart posted:The new Wole Soyinka isn't very good and I'm returning it to the library. The book drain pour.
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Nov 29, 2021 04:32
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ulvir posted:from English history I briefly remember something or other about the war of the roses, which isn't the thing you are arguing about, and I can still function as an adult and understand things like The Enlightenment and the French revolution J'accuse with tea and madeleines
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Nov 29, 2021 05:22
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At Night All Blood Is Black is £1.99 on kindle daily deal today FYIs
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Nov 29, 2021 08:40
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Yeah, I didn't mean that the English Civil War was a direct cause of the French Revolution, more that it was extremely fitting for the chronological and political/philosophical gap there. Apologies for the glib overstatement. No worries. It's actually kind of remarkable how little the possible intellectual influence of the Protectorate on the Revolution is studied over here, even though the Parisian bourgeois who theorised the revolutionary ideals would have almost certainly been familiar with it.
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Nov 29, 2021 12:40
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I'm American. Oliver Cromwell was a pivotal figure in world history for both good and ill, and it really is surprising for someone to not be familiar. i know who he was from listening to In Our Time a lot but even in holland the civil war isn't really taught in school. he was mostly relevant to british/irish/colonial history. similarly we don't really care about the american civil war
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Nov 29, 2021 12:41
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Shibawanko posted:similarly we don't really care about the american civil war much more so than the english civir war though, in my experience at least. anyway, a bunch of stuff happened around the time of the english civil war that ended up being pretty important to the dutch republic, which iirc adopted a neutral stance in the english civil war anyway. see also my earlier comment "curricular competition" Famethrowa posted:I guess this is a non-eurocentric argument, which is fair, but the OP then cited his schooling doing the "European classics" but excluding one of the top 3 colonizing European counties having a global impact so I mean, no, I don't think that tracks. no, it's an anti-anglocentric argument. also, citation needed for that bit between quotation marks.
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Nov 29, 2021 17:57
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I mean my American public school system didn't even discuss loving Vietnam and I didn't know there even was a Korean war until college, and chances are at least one of my teachers fought in one of those wars  If someone wasn't aware of the English civil war and its impact on society, I don't see the point of taking them to task for it. You can't help what you don't know, which it sounds like the guy was motivated to try and correct?
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Nov 29, 2021 18:27
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Mr. Nemo posted:Edit: to get back to it, any shortish read about why the English civil war is relevant to PL? The footnotes touches a bit on it, but I could read some more Heath posted:I mean my American public school system didn't even discuss loving Vietnam and I didn't know there even was a Korean war until college, and chances are at least one of my teachers fought in one of those wars 
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Nov 29, 2021 18:56
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I think most people had similar education experiences. Ancient history was Egypt, and then there was Greece and they invented philosophy, and then they turned into Rome. Then America happened, American history is we were founded by devout Christians who only wanted to practice their faith and were being persecuted in England because ??? and they landed in Plymouth and there was a dinner where everyone was happy. Then ??? there was a tea party because of taxation without... something. Taxation, taxes are bad, the king was stealing money from the Americans. Then ??? and there was a civil war because of slavery, and then Abraham Lincoln and the Republicans (not the Democrats!@!!11) freed the slaves with a proclamation and then a Democrat got mad and shot him for it. Then World War I and it was bad. Then World War II, and we saved the world, and we talk about this for the next six years of education, and nothing bad ever happened after that.
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Nov 29, 2021 19:50
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I thoroughly convinced that everyone complaining about history education in the US just didn't pay attention, and then vents about it online to cover up their own ignorance.
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Nov 29, 2021 19:56
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I mean I'm sure in high school at least there were classes that discussed it in more depth, but they were electives. I mean, I don't think you have to dig very deep in the modern concept of the American mythology to see the wide cracks.
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Nov 29, 2021 20:03
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I have no loving idea what I was taught in history class because I'm 32 years old
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Nov 29, 2021 20:19
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Heath posted:If someone wasn't aware of the English civil war and its impact on society, I don't see the point of taking them to task for it. You can't help what you don't know, which it sounds like the guy was motivated to try and correct? I WAS. But now posting rules indicate I have to defend “the English civil war was globally irrelevant” to the death. It’s a shame really. If only we hadn’t repelled the attempted British Invasions then perhaps local education would include their local history such as the civil war. Up next, how Yugioh taught me about the war of roses.
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Nov 29, 2021 20:42
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Gaius Marius posted:I thoroughly convinced that everyone complaining about history education in the US just didn't pay attention, and then vents about it online to cover up their own ignorance. I don’t think “America’s public school system is poorly executed” and “people didn’t pay attention in class” are mutually exclusive concepts.
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Nov 29, 2021 22:38
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everybody should learn english history for the same reasons why parents tell you about the boogie man, or loading screens on old fps games would tell you the weak spots to aim for on enemies
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Nov 29, 2021 22:49
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Lex Neville posted:no, it's an anti-anglocentric argument. also, citation needed for that bit between quotation marks. Mr. Nemo posted:As i remember it my european history went romans, quick overview of medieval stuff and then french revolution, and that's where we got into monarchy vs republic and it's impact on a global scale. Maybe we covered one of the oter wars with the dutch and spanish involved. I'd make a bet cromwell never came up. I dunno man seems pretty standard to me as far as traditional euro history points to touch on. my point was only that knowing about Cromwell and the reforms in the aftermath is a pretty basic single lesson thing that I was surprised that it was missed as part of the overall tapestry of "western" governmental theory. I don't see it as much different then knowing about Robespierre and the aftermath of the French Revolution, even if you couldn't give the beat by beat events of the uprising itself. No one is saying that having deep understanding of the Roundheads is necessary in one's education. That would be anglocentric.
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Nov 29, 2021 22:57
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Famethrowa posted:I dunno man seems pretty standard to me as far as traditional euro history points to touch on. my point was only that knowing about Cromwell and the reforms in the aftermath is a pretty basic single lesson thing that I was surprised that it was missed as part of the overall tapestry of "western" governmental theory. I don't see it as much different then knowing about Robespierre and the aftermath of the French Revolution, even if you couldn't give the beat by beat events of the uprising itself. the reason the french revolution does get taught is because it produced napoleon and spilled over into a lot of other countries. the protestant revolution is taught but its just luther and calvin and maybe a few other figures, maybe henry viii is mentioned if youre lucky, otherwise british history is seen as mostly tangential until waterloo and victoria
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Nov 30, 2021 00:39
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american history is presented as a straight line from columbus to washington to lincoln and the end of slavery, and the first major thing after that is wilson and the versailles treaty
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Nov 30, 2021 00:42
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 I finally got a copy of this
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Nov 30, 2021 01:57
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as a child i learned about history from the fall of the western roman empire through to the spanish conquest of the americas from the age of empires 2 campaign intro slides, which are literature
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Nov 30, 2021 06:45
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I cannot imagine being someone who wasn't highly aware of all the most major historical events from the age of 16 onwards.
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Nov 30, 2021 14:05
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by 16 i got really obsessed with the concept of most major historical events and tried to channel them constantly
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Nov 30, 2021 14:51
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CestMoi posted:by 16 i got really obsessed with the concept of most major historical events and tried to channel them constantly I went through all stages of historical development much faster than some people do. By the age of 10, I was already succumbing to the internal contradictions of capitalism
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Nov 30, 2021 16:42
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Vibrating with super-normal levels of awareness of the 1550 Valladolid debate, at the tender age of 17
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Nov 30, 2021 16:50
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