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Cugel the Clever posted:So you don't think that higher speeds reduce the time the driver and everyone else on the street has to react? Or that higher speeds inherently entail longer stopping times with more risky handling even with perfect maintenance to both vehicle and road? of course they do, but if you can trust someone to drive on snow or past a mall on black friday (and maybe you can't, fair enough, but they're both completely legal) you can trust them to gauge appropriate speed to handle a vehicle, which is independent of the posted speed limit and how well they're enforced.
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Nov 30, 2021 04:47
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hate cars
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Nov 30, 2021 04:52
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Rockstar Massacre posted:you can trust them to gauge appropriate speed to handle a vehicle, which is independent of the posted speed limit and how well they're enforced.  Americans can’t be trusted to buckle up or not text while driving, how tf do you trust them to determine the appropriate speeds Are you really advocating for the abolition of speed limits or am I misunderstanding you
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Nov 30, 2021 04:56
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SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:hate cars 
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Nov 30, 2021 04:59
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I am arguing for the abolition of speed limits (through the mechanism of the abolition of cars)
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Nov 30, 2021 05:03
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you should be allowed to ride your bicycle as fast as you want not on the sidewalk though cut that out you rear end in a top hat
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Nov 30, 2021 05:12
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SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:hate cars Feed all cars to truckasaurus
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Nov 30, 2021 05:16
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+1. I don't know how anyone who's encountered a driver at any point in their life could think anything but a minority of drivers are paying sufficient attention to the road to even begin to gauge an "appropriate" speed, much less do so accurately or with any consistency relative to the other vehicles on the road. A lot of that comes down to mindset instilled by driving culture: that you're the champion of the road and everyone else can eat poo poo. Better infrastructure absolutely will reduce harm, but you're still left with a bunch of sociopaths behind the wheel who will find new and horrifying ways to murder others. Best to tackle both problems and not let one excuse failing to address the other!Milo and POTUS posted:Conscientious anything is culture war poo poo in this country my dude. It'll never happen Like I said upthread, I'm mainly pushing back on the narrative that any attention to individual agency is counterproductive. That's because there's real good that can be done just by talking with loved ones and friends about how they approach getting behind the whee! If you can get a single person you know to leave the cellphone pocketed, you may well have saved a life. docbeard posted:I am arguing for the abolition of speed limits (through the mechanism of the abolition of cars) 
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Nov 30, 2021 05:20
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Nov 30, 2021 06:58
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lil poopendorfer posted:Are you really advocating for the abolition of speed limits or am I misunderstanding you you're completely misunderstanding, I was specifically addressing is if speed limits and stricter enforcement thereof will save lives, and the answer is no they will not. speed limits as they exist (in NA anyway) are primarily used to fleece people and to absolve political figures of the responsibility for the lives ended by cars which is why this position Cugel the Clever posted:Best to tackle both problems and not let one excuse failing to address the other! is counterproductive because if you lay your thousands of car dead at the feet of your legislators and councilors they'll absolutely froth at the chance to kick responsibility down to the individual level because it's much easier than telling realtors, auto manufacturers and dealers to gently caress off and just fixing their city. just like when we discovered driving drunk was killing people faster than war and they kept gutting public transport anyway because the problem was 'solved' with strict enforcement, no the inability to traverse the city at night without a car isn't a problem, why do you ask?
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Nov 30, 2021 08:04
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Cugel the Clever posted:Sure. Until we get to that point, should we: A) allow drivers complete free rein on the roads while we attempt to advance an infrastructure solution or B) encourage conscientious driving and discourage behavior known to be factors in the majority of traffic violence while we attempt to advance an infrastructure solution? yes I'm also opposed to issuing flat rate tickets for cell phone use.
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Nov 30, 2021 08:29
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Cell phone use should be no more driving for at least a year.
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Nov 30, 2021 09:06
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Nitevision posted:Actually, this is racist against me. lol
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Nov 30, 2021 09:12
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lil poopendorfer posted:
Vegitation cut back a hundred yards from the centerline, two lanes but could fit 6 cars abreast, very long protected turn lanes. Straight, flat, fast. That'll be $250 plus 4 points on your license. they're scenic, with trees right up to the roadside. Carved into the hillside with a majestic view for you to take in, with the other lane above/below you to not impede the sight. Lots of turns, limited straight-line visibility. notably narrow. Unprotected crossings of smaller roads. Posted 65mph, driven 80. I'm looking at you, taconic state parkway.
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Nov 30, 2021 10:48
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Rockstar Massacre posted:you're completely misunderstanding, I was specifically addressing is if speed limits and stricter enforcement thereof will save lives, and the answer is no they will not. Someone literally posted evidence of 30kmh speed limits doing this. It's the same for London's 20mph zones quote:The time series regression analysis estimated a 42% reduction (95% CI 36%, https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/20-mph-zones-and-road-safety-in-london.pdf Here for more: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/road-safety distortion park has issued a correction as of 14:41 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 14:37
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the anti car movement does not need transpo nerds who are against speed limits sounding off but also, yes speed bumps everywhere
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Nov 30, 2021 14:47
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speed bumps kill people by way of slowing ambulances
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Nov 30, 2021 14:59
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let god sort em out
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Nov 30, 2021 15:05
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eSports Chaebol posted:it is a great idea and also would be great for fuel economy on highways (and if it happened irl would actually foment revolution which while it would be for the wrong reasons would be cool) I get better fuel economy cruising at 75 than I do at 60, according to my excel document
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Nov 30, 2021 15:14
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camden council is also a fan of speed bumps, as they replaced the planters between the bike and car lanes with these tiny bumps (the planters were constantly getting mangled by cars) I'm a fan of those big metal lane width restrictors as they really force cars to slow down properly
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Nov 30, 2021 15:15
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pointsofdata posted:I'm a fan of those big metal lane width restrictors as they really force cars to slow down properly this is the way. speed limits on a sign are pointless and rely on enforcement (read: police) to be "effective", and even then, effective just means that it's generating revenue for the state (also lol at this cspam thread appealing to the authorities to slow cars down. gently caress the police). proper road design forces drivers to drive slowly and doesn't rely on hopes and dreams that drivers read the sign and obey. it also works on older cars which things like "cars should have speed governors on them" doesn't. what about pre-drive-by-wire? pre-obd2 ecus? simply saying "ban them" is fun in this thread but you're dreaming if you think it'll ever happen in real life. effective road design slowing drivers without the use of artificial speed limits is already proven practice in europe
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Nov 30, 2021 15:25
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that sure is a lotta words just to say gently caress cars
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Nov 30, 2021 15:26
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Lastgirl posted:that sure is a lotta words just to say thinking about starting a "designing modern cities" thread or something because this one sucks lol
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Nov 30, 2021 15:32
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Sorry that a small group of people think your motorized living room on wheels sucks
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Nov 30, 2021 15:33
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imagine being ideologically opposed to speed limits in every possible conception because you once learned you can design slower roads and the cops are gangsters
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Nov 30, 2021 15:33
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:this is the way. speed limits on a sign are pointless and rely on enforcement (read: police) to be "effective", and even then, effective just means that it's generating revenue for the state (also lol at this cspam thread appealing to the authorities to slow cars down. gently caress the police). proper road design forces drivers to drive slowly and doesn't rely on hopes and dreams that drivers read the sign and obey. it also works on older cars which things like "cars should have speed governors on them" doesn't. what about pre-drive-by-wire? pre-obd2 ecus? simply saying "ban them" is fun in this thread but you're dreaming if you think it'll ever happen in real life. effective road design slowing drivers without the use of artificial speed limits is already proven practice in europe I agree that making it impossible to speed is best (although there's no reason not to enforce it electronically in new cars), but proven practice in europe includes speed limits. both the examples given so far are from europe and included evidence that they were effective at reducing injuries and deaths, not just generating revenue. in portugal they enforce limits via red lights - if you are speeding then a light ahead turns red which is a cool model
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Nov 30, 2021 15:34
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:imagine being ideologically opposed to speed limits in every possible conception because you once learned you can design slower roads and the cops are gangsters how about this: ban cars AND cops. cop cars get melted down for use as sewage pipes
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Nov 30, 2021 15:35
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No no no, put the deck chairs over there
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Nov 30, 2021 15:35
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:this is the way. speed limits on a sign are pointless and rely on enforcement (read: police) to be "effective", and even then, effective just means that it's generating revenue for the state (also lol at this cspam thread appealing to the authorities to slow cars down. gently caress the police). proper road design forces drivers to drive slowly and doesn't rely on hopes and dreams that drivers read the sign and obey. it also works on older cars which things like "cars should have speed governors on them" doesn't. what about pre-drive-by-wire? pre-obd2 ecus? simply saying "ban them" is fun in this thread but you're dreaming if you think it'll ever happen in real life. effective road design slowing drivers without the use of artificial speed limits is already proven practice in europe are you just not reading the poster who keeps pointing out that speed limits actually do have an effect or what also everyone in this thread wants roads to be redesigned so that no one can go above 5 mph, but in a country where doing that would spur suicide bombings from suburban moms, we simply post 'ban cars' instead. hth
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Nov 30, 2021 15:37
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:imagine being ideologically opposed to speed limits in every possible conception because you once learned you can design slower roads and the cops are gangsters not ideologically opposed, they just aren't effective in the real world. there is a severe disconnect between the ideology itt and what exists in reality. they need to be coupled with effective road design, and effective road design renders them moot anyway. SKULL.GIF posted:Sorry that a small group of people think your motorized living room on wheels sucks i don't own a living room on wheels 
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Nov 30, 2021 15:38
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:are you just not reading the poster who keeps pointing out that speed limits actually do have an effect or what sorry about your country but i don't live there. however, i would like to see cities designed to keep cars out as much as possible. this is something that is possible in reality, banning cars is not
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Nov 30, 2021 15:39
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thinner lanes and speed bumps are good
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Nov 30, 2021 15:40
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It is idealogy because you refuse to even acknowledge truths about situations where code enforcement does help. Maybe you could suggest an authority that WOULD work because we both know cops enforcing road laws for real is not gonna be a thing ever. for example: my town needs a new bridge with larger sidewalks, bike lanes and a general road diet. That's certainly not going to happen anytime soon no matter how many great designs are made by well-meaning wonks. I would like, however, for people not to speed through the bridge at 35 mph and kill with impunity in the meantime Jokerpilled Drudge has issued a correction as of 15:47 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 15:40
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lil poopendorfer posted:speed bumps suck because you have to brake for them and then speed back up to normal speed, you don't say
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Nov 30, 2021 15:44
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:It is idealogy because you refuse to even acknowledge truths about situations where code enforcement does help. Maybe you could suggest an authority that WOULD work because we both know cops enforcing road laws for real is not gonna be a thing ever. why write all these words when enforcement isn't happening either
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Nov 30, 2021 15:47
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yes that is why im saying it should be enforced, and not by police action
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Nov 30, 2021 15:47
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actionjackson posted:thinner lanes and speed bumps are good most speed bumps don’t work on people with $95,000 range rovers (or any SUVs actually), you gotta make the long ones that will spill poo poo all over your car if you’re not going under 15mph
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Nov 30, 2021 15:50
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:this is the way. speed limits on a sign are pointless and rely on enforcement (read: police) to be "effective", and even then, effective just means that it's generating revenue for the state (also lol at this cspam thread appealing to the authorities to slow cars down. gently caress the police). proper road design forces drivers to drive slowly and doesn't rely on hopes and dreams that drivers read the sign and obey. it also works on older cars which things like "cars should have speed governors on them" doesn't. what about pre-drive-by-wire? pre-obd2 ecus? simply saying "ban them" is fun in this thread but you're dreaming if you think it'll ever happen in real life. effective road design slowing drivers without the use of artificial speed limits is already proven practice in europe my issue w road design to control speed is that it assumes you're dealing w rational actors that recognize that it's unsafe to drive quickly through those areas. American drivers are far from rational, to put it mildly. In my city we have speed cameras at park-adjacent roads and literally everyone drives the limit. THere's no room for idiots to think "well I'm such an exceptional driver that I bet I can take that curve at a high speed". It's black & white: drive the limit+4mph or get a ticket.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:50
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you're going to have a much easier time putting in protected bike lanes and narrower streets than getting people to stop driving fast
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Nov 30, 2021 15:50
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:yes that is why im saying it should be enforced, and not by police action that's as likely to happen as all the other things you mention, which is why you dismiss those other things.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:52
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