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Lord_Magmar posted:Singed is named that way traditionally because his skin is super hosed up from experiments with acids and toxins. His face is meant to be all scarred (and it gets even worse after a specific plot beat that might show up next season). I mean fair but in comparison to replacing their entire body (or even just half of it) with weird robot parts having scarred skin isn't really that weird.
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Nov 30, 2021 08:36
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Hellioning posted:I mean fair but in comparison to replacing their entire body (or even just half of it) with weird robot parts having scarred skin isn't really that weird. True, but if we're discussing traditional potentially uncomfortable implication bad guy signs, scarification is a huge one alongside disability and campiness. Like no it isn't weird, but in the context of this discussion Singed is just as traditionally villainous looking as current Arcane Viktor right now, if not more so. But Singed does it to himself (I dunno if it'll be cannon in Arcane or not but he uses his things on himself if another test subject cannot be procured).
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Nov 30, 2021 08:55
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Fair enough. We know that there was at least one thing he didn't do to himself, unless it's just a coincidence he goes from unscarred to scarred after he gets blown up by an explosion.
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Nov 30, 2021 09:11
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The thing about Silco's eye injury is it makes him look extremely cool
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Nov 30, 2021 13:32
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Vermain posted:Rell and Riven are also characters unambiguously depicted as heroic who are both clearly and obviously struggling with deeply ingrained personal trauma in the fiction. Riven does seem like she's working through some PTSD with her... magic sword? Pieces of a magic sword? I'm not clear. (I mean, I get she used to thug for Noxus and is now trying to redeem herself in Ionian but the details are fuzzy.)
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Nov 30, 2021 14:33
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Dawgstar posted:Riven does seem like she's working through some PTSD with her... magic sword? Pieces of a magic sword? I'm not clear. (I mean, I get she used to thug for Noxus and is now trying to redeem herself in Ionian but the details are fuzzy.) She got warcrimed by her own side (with the help of Singed, Dr War Crimes) and her sword is like, dark magic attached to her soul so it being shattered means her soul is also shattered. This happened whilst she was a proud Noxian Soldier invading Ionia, and the true face of war left her traumatised and wanting to atone for the harm she caused to Ionians.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:09
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I think the main reason League doesn't have ugly heroic characters is because it's fundamentally a video game that needs to cater to certain fantasies. And the overlap between people who want to play an ugly / hosed up / scary character, and people who want to play a goody two shoes, probably isn't that great. Same reason they don't have any ugly women, good or evil (except Kalista who is great). But in the series it does kind of hinder them at least in terms of representation, but also by blocking off some options wrt character design.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:19
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Lord_Magmar posted:She got warcrimed by her own side (with the help of Singed, Dr War Crimes) and her sword is like, dark magic attached to her soul so it being shattered means her soul is also shattered. This happened whilst she was a proud Noxian Soldier invading Ionia, and the true face of war left her traumatised and wanting to atone for the harm she caused to Ionians. I read her lore and then some fiction when Riven was still tooling around Ionia and it was pretty good. I reserve the right to chortle at 'Boram Darkwill' once leading Noxus, though. Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 17:06
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This may be pedantic but in what way are these characters "evil-coded" beyond their disabilities? It feels like we're taking for granted that this show equates disabilities with evil intent kinda quickly. And loads of morally ambiguous characters are shown as being physically fit. The more sinister of the amoral councilmembers like the kefka looking mfer, marcus, the punks in act 1. Silco and viktor are the characters whose disabilities get the most screen time, and silco's is shown repeatedly to cause him actual pain and problems. It ends up contributing to his eventual humanizing and makes the end of his storyline even more impactful. I don't think it's fair to say it's intended to simply make him look sinister. And viktor is one of the few characters in this show with both noble intentions and the gall to try and stick to them (alongside heimer and ekko), even if they dovetail with him solving his own problems. You're seriously projecting if you think the show expects us to think he's sinister. At worst his disabilities make him seem weak, but in the end so does the rest of his storyline with his infatuation with the hexcore and inability to stand up to jayce's increasing amorality. But if you think he show presenting him as weak equates to it presenting him as evil, that's on you. I think a good question to ask is who does the story present as unambiguously good or unambiguously evil? One of the best things about this show is how blurred those lines are drawn. It's certainly not a show that presents any of these characters as a villain to be hated, so it doesn't state that any of these traits should be found to be disgusting or worthy of contempt. Even the character most portrayed as disgusting in the show (the shimmer addicts) are uniformly presented with sympathy and even some nobility, a nobility that is honestly kinda rare in this very realpolitiks plot. I won't argue that it's not cool when disabilities are used to make a character sinister (for a relevant comparison, le chiffre in casino Royale has an eye problem that's almost entirely dedicated to that) but i will argue that arcane pushes against that trend by incorporating them into these characters stories. BiggestBatman fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 18:21
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https://twitter.com/blacksalander/status/1465721927327223811?s=21
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Nov 30, 2021 18:36
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We're now well and truly into the <profession> Reacts part of Arcane but this one about a therapist reacting to Jinx was interesting.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:27
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Hello new wallpaper.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:32
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BiggestBatman posted:This may be pedantic but in what way are these characters "evil-coded" beyond their disabilities? It feels like we're taking for granted that this show equates disabilities with evil intent kinda quickly. I really don't see why a character's disability incorporated in their story means that the fact that they're disabled can't be used to make them sinister. In any event Silco is 'evil-coded' by both his actions (such as attempting to murder the people we like, including children) and the framing of several shots (most notably, in the opening, where he looms dramatically over Vander protecting Vi and Powder).
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Nov 30, 2021 20:52
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pidan posted:I think the main reason League doesn't have ugly heroic characters is because it's fundamentally a video game that needs to cater to certain straight able-bodied male fantasies. And the overlap between people who want to play an ugly / hosed up / scary character, and people who want to play a goody two shoes, probably isn't that great. Same reason they don't have any ugly women, good or evil (except Kalista who is great), because they need to cater to straight male fantasies. I've added the implicit statements in your post as explicit statements. Do people who aren't men really only want to play as hollywood hot women? Do people really care that their cool digital action figure backstory describes the character model they love as a hero, not a villain? I don't want to go too hard after you here, but this notorious argument holds up to zero scrutiny, and is the self fulfilling prophecy that so many dudes in video game board rooms have used to build the (disproportionately male) audience they foresaw.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:45
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Silco is certainly sinister. No argument there. What about viktor?
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Nov 30, 2021 22:07
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It's wild to me to go to the league community on reddit and see them bitching about how Riot is "catering to Women with the overly girly femboys" and then get hit with "actually there's no ugly woman because they need to cater to straight male fantasies" It's a whiplash. Also now that we've seen all 9 episodes if you are hung up on Silco having a disfigurement as his only character indication I think you were actively trying to miss the point. He's a brilliantly written character. Asema fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 22:08
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Rob Filter posted:I've added the implicit statements in your post as explicit statements. Do people who aren't men really only want to play as hollywood hot women? Do people really care that their cool digital action figure backstory describes the character model they love as a hero, not a villain? Well honestly, the large majority of players are men. Partly because of design choices, but mostly because this type of game is just more popular with men in the general culture. And yeah, in my experience most women prefer beautiful woman characters to ugly ones - not the creepy male fantasy characters, but that's not the only type of attractive woman. And yeah, people do care about the imagery of the characters. They may not read the backstory, but they definitely like or dislike characters based on their looks and the archetypes they invoke. I wouldn't say they're all specifically male fantasies, fantasies here includes things like "stylish monster hunter" and "big protective dad type" and "reluctant resistance fighter who is also a dancer" (the last one is imo more of a female fantasy). But they have to tie into storytelling tropes that people are familiar with, that are recognizable at a glance. I'm not actually disagreeing with you, I also think the "disability signals villainy" thing has invaded their character design, but I think it's specifically because their characters have to be archetypical for in-game appeal. So the sinister transhumanist can be disabled and the beautiful princess can't.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:18
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Asema posted:Also now that we've seen all 9 episodes if you are hung up on Silco having a disfigurement as his only character indication I think you were actively trying to miss the point. He's a brilliantly written character. I think you're missing their point tbh. It's not that Silco is defined by his scarring, it's that he's yet another example of a villain with facial scarring, which is already a tendentious combination, in a show that frequently associates disfigurement and disabilities with villainy. There can be various in universe justifications for the scarring, limps, artificial jaws, prosthetic arms, carved off noses, and violent schizophrenia that the various villains on the show possess. They can have deeper characterisation -- though tbh I disagree about Silco being brilliant written, but whatever, that doesn't really matter; I agree that there's certainly more to him than his facial features -- but you line up enough data points and a pattern emerges, and that pattern, in this case, is a distinctly ableist one.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:23
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Open Source Idiom posted:I think you're missing their point tbh. It's not that Silco is defined by his scarring, it's that he's yet another example of a villain with facial scarring, which is already a tendentious combination, in a show that frequently associates disfigurement and disabilities with villainy. Everything looks like a nail.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:25
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Asema posted:Everything looks like a nail. argumentum ad hominem
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Nov 30, 2021 22:27
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BiggestBatman posted:Silco is certainly sinister. No argument there. This is maybe more of a Wider League Lore thing, but Riot keeps pushing him as a villain and keeps having to walk that back due to an enraged crowd of Viktor fans. Maybe it's just my experience with Riot's treatment of him, but combine that and dealing with an Evil Purple Blood Magic thing he's certainly more villain coded then most characters. Like he hasn't done anything evil yet but if he becomes a villain in a later season I wouldn't be surprised you know? Asema posted:Also now that we've seen all 9 episodes if you are hung up on Silco having a disfigurement as his only character indication I think you were actively trying to miss the point. He's a brilliantly written character. It's not his only character indication, but it is absolutely a character indication, especially early on. Silco can be more than his scars and still have his scars be a tedious stereotype.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:28
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Hellioning posted:It's not his only character indication, but it is absolutely a character indication, especially early on. Silco can be more than his scars and still have his scars be a tedious stereotype. Sure
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Nov 30, 2021 22:33
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Hellioning posted:This is maybe more of a Wider League Lore thing, but Riot keeps pushing him as a villain and keeps having to walk that back due to an enraged crowd of Viktor fans. Maybe it's just my experience with Riot's treatment of him, but combine that and dealing with an Evil Purple Blood Magic thing he's certainly more villain coded then most characters. Like he hasn't done anything evil yet but if he becomes a villain in a later season I wouldn't be surprised you know? I actually think he's not going to be a villain, the current lore is that he and Jayce develop a really different understanding of what they should be doing with their science and so become enemies, it's not really the case that one is evil and one isn't. And I don't see why they should change that in the show, it would tie in excellently with the overall Zaun vs Piltover plot. The original character design of Viktor is basically just Mad Soviet Scientist, but the current lore is pretty nuanced. BUT he absolutely looks sinister, if some people don't see it I can honestly only say "turn on your monitor".    Just my boy Viktor, communing with the demon core, creating blood magic, injecting Shimmer, carving into his own flesh, nothing sinister here!
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Nov 30, 2021 22:42
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Hellioning posted:This is maybe more of a Wider League Lore thing, but Riot keeps pushing him as a villain and keeps having to walk that back due to an enraged crowd of Viktor fans. Maybe it's just my experience with Riot's treatment of him, but combine that and dealing with an Evil Purple Blood Magic thing he's certainly more villain coded then most characters. Like he hasn't done anything evil yet but if he becomes a villain in a later season I wouldn't be surprised you know? tedious to whom? I see two posters complaining about it in a 24 page thread? Otherwise, it's an extremely popular series that is getting ALOT of praise. The main bad guys in the drat show are obviously the above city types, and I'm betting a lot more people sympathize with Silco than you think. Maybe the minority of you hopping up and down pointing our scar scar equals bad are the abelists? Or better yet, just go post about it on twitter. *edit Silco not Victor oops*
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Nov 30, 2021 22:43
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I wonder if the general association of facial scarring with "evil badass" has anything to do with anti-German propaganda and the prevalence of dueling scars among the German officer class up to WW2. Anyway I rewatched the show and its hilarious how much of a chump Jayce is. He constantly just does whatever the last person he spoke to tells him to. Noticing that made things like his complete 180 on corruption less jarring. And Im a dumbass and had completely misread the final scenes. When Jinx says that it was Vi not Silco who created Jinx its an acknowledgement not an accusation like I initially thought. Also when Jinx kills Silco I had thought she had just snapped and was firing wildly and it was just chance that it was Silco rather than Vi who got shot, because you see Vi ducking a shot in that sequence. Rewatching I realised that it was Silco's shot Vi was ducking and Jinx only started shooting when he pulled the trigger. So Jinx intentionally shot Silco to protect Vi. Which makes it all a demonstration that Jinx has always been willing to sacrifice everything for Vi but when it comes down to it Vi wont do the same for Jinx. Thats a much different context than if it was just a random accident resulting from a panic attack which was my first take.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:44
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Random Integer posted:Anyway I rewatched the show and its hilarious how much of a chump Jayce is. He constantly just does whatever the last person he spoke to tells him to. Noticing that made things like his complete 180 on corruption less jarring. Yeah, I absolutely loved that on the rewatch, he's in over his head and he knows it, so he's trying to please everyone and constantly underwater. Would be a good backstory for him eventually becoming an arrogant rear end in a top hat who doesn't listen to anyone, as he is in-game, if they can pull it off.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:46
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Marcus has a very evil mustache
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Nov 30, 2021 22:59
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Mnoba posted:I do. He's dying and knows it and is pushing himself to try to solve the technology problem. If a guy rejects the advances of a women that makes him gay? I'm sorry I missed this post when you first made it, but I think its important to talk about your blind spot. I'm sure your unaware of this, but the moment a heterosexual man refuses a woman's advances, he is flooded with powerful homosexual energy. That's where gay men come from! You need to go educate yourself by reading the bible, Hail Satan.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:03
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Rob Filter posted:I'm sorry I missed this post when you first made it, but I think its important to talk about your blind spot. I'm sure your unaware of this, but the moment a heterosexual man refuses a woman's advances, he is flooded with powerful homosexual energy. That's where gay men come from! You need to go educate yourself by reading the bible, Hail Satan. You acting smug and trying to one-up their one-up of your very bad post in regards to Viktor isn't it chief.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:05
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As a loving super oblivious dumbass in high school to early 20s. I have been so in my own head and oblivious about poo poo to a degree where a woman had pretty much done and said everything up to the point of saying everything but "I want to gently caress you right now" but my dumb rear end was just completely incapable of thinking anything positive about myself. And just missed blatant come ons. Until a friend literally told me what was going on, and then everything clicked into place. Human brains can be dumb especially when dealing with personal traumas and poo poo.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:11
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Asema posted:You acting smug and trying to one-up their one-up of your very bad post in regards to Viktor isn't it chief. They are punching up it's fine i'm used to it. I ended up being correct too in later episodes as Victor was obviously very upset kiling her 
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Nov 30, 2021 23:12
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To be a bit more positive, when looking at the screenshots above, one thing that's really great in the show is the use of characters' eyes. They look at stuff, they reflect things, they have great microexpressions, they even change color depending on what is going on in the plot. They also have varying levels of eyebags to demonstrate just how exhausted a character is at the moment. Just beautiful. I don't watch much animation, so maybe this is not as unique as I think, but it totally blew me away.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:15
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Dexo posted:As a loving super oblivious dumbass in high school to early 20s. wellp guess you're gay, them's the rules
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Nov 30, 2021 23:18
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pidan posted:To be a bit more positive, when looking at the screenshots above, one thing that's really great in the show is the use of characters' eyes. They look at stuff, they reflect things, they have great microexpressions, they even change color depending on what is going on in the plot. They also have varying levels of eyebags to demonstrate just how exhausted a character is at the moment. Just beautiful. I very much enjoy the eye animation in this, yes.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:20
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pidan posted:To be a bit more positive, when looking at the screenshots above, one thing that's really great in the show is the use of characters' eyes. They look at stuff, they reflect things, they have great microexpressions, they even change color depending on what is going on in the plot. They also have varying levels of eyebags to demonstrate just how exhausted a character is at the moment. Just beautiful. There's a LOT of emotion and characterization that they convey in the eyes and it's really impressive. It's most obvious they're doing it when it's a character like Heimerdinger where you can't see his mouth and most of his emotion HAS to be conveyed through his eyes, but you can see it in every character too. The way Ekko looks at Jinx when he stops himself from punching her, Jinx has a wide range of stuff with her eyes that's way more than just "she has a crazy look", the subtle changes in Silco when his overconfidence gets tested, the look of betrayal from Heimerdinger during the one council scene, etc. You almost only ever see Singe's eyes as well. They really took to heart all the lessons about how important it is to convey character emotions and stuff through their eyes that you always hear about with animation. Jinx and Heimerdinger especially I was ALWAYS so captivated by the animation in their eyes
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Nov 30, 2021 23:25
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Dexo posted:As a loving super oblivious dumbass in high school to early 20s. Oh yeah, its absolutely true "not reading romantic cues" doesn't make people IRL homosexual. I was trying to poke fun at someone for getting angry that I was making queer reads, who decided to respond with bizarre counterarguments. Unfortunately, I didn't properly read the threads temperature. In the interests of the threads health, I'm gonna tap out for a good while. Rob Filter fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 23:27
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Yeah the facial microexpressions in the animation are absolutely incredible. Would not surprise me at all to learn that that is what made the show take so long to make and honestly it's 100% worth it imo. This scene or any of the others with Vi and Cait interacting, or any of the solo Jinx scenes where she's talking to herself, are great examples of it. https://twitter.com/Kaosi1/status/1465309074082435082?t=FqvADsKQ5KJNwCxX3HYpvg&s=19
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Nov 30, 2021 23:30
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The Shortest Path posted:Yeah the facial microexpressions in the animation are absolutely incredible. Would not surprise me at all to learn that that is what made the show take so long to make and honestly it's 100% worth it imo. That girl gets it bad for Caitlyn right that second. Look at that face change. Also this is one of my favorite shots of Jinx in the show. Powder is almost completely gone by this point. The way her face looks and the little head tilt she gives is so good. 
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Nov 30, 2021 23:34
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Viktor's a bit of a odd one, ingame he is there to fill the hole for people who want to play as Dr.Doom with a skill literally called Death Ray (he used it in the show to haphazardly carve heimerdinger's face and slice off part of the stonework) His background story though isn't what you'd expect from that by going "wants to save humanity from their own incompetence and emotions and prevent human-error deaths and make the world a better place for people to live in with cool robot augments" Will be interesting to see where they take him in the show. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 23:40
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https://twitter.com/squizxy/status/1465787728923140100
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