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It does get confusing seeing people using SA to alternately mean South Africa, South America, Something Awful, and occasionally (by crazy people) San Antonio. Or, although it doesn't happen often, the Nazi SA was a thing, too.
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Nov 30, 2021 08:29
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Moderna CEO is a doom poster. quote:"There is no world, I think, where (the effectiveness) is the same level . . . we had with Delta," Moderna Chief Executive Stéphane Bancel told the Financial Times in an interview.
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Nov 30, 2021 08:34
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This is a more general interest question. So we know that if you had covid you have a partial resistance like when you would get the vaccine, but just not that effective. You then could get a vaccine shot and would get almost full immunity, like if you had gotten 2 shots with no prior infection. This immunity will slowly decline over time and sits roughly at 50-60% after about half a year. There are now booster shots that will up your resistance again to what you would have after being just double vaccinated. So can we assume or has there been studies of fully vaxxed people getting infected with covid and recovering again, having an immunity similar to being just vaccinated? I just want to point out this is just a thought I had and I didn't find an answer right away and not me promoting some weird "go get infected, don't worry about it" stance.
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Nov 30, 2021 08:43
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Helios Grime posted:This is a more general interest question. I'm not sure what you're asking but there are major differences between the mRNA/vectored vaccines and a natural infection, for example: -The mRNA and vectored vaccines (used in the US, Europe, other wealthy Western nations) only include the spike protein. Natural infection will expose you to all the parts of the virus, not just spike. -The mRNA and vectored vaccines deliver the spike protein inside your cells which has important and complicated consequences for how it is recognized and responded to by your immune system. A natural infection doesn't put spike protein inside cells, instead the virus uses spike to access cells and inject its RNA inside. That's getting deep into immunology which is some black magic voodoo insanely complex stuff that defies intuition, and I am far from an immunologist. But the vaccines and natural infection stimulate your immune system in different ways and provoke different responses. edit: also when you say immunity declines to 50-60% or so after half a year, that's for infection, how likely the virus is to just bounce off you entirely. You will still have very strong (90-95%+) protection against severe disease and hospitalization. Unless you're elderly or immunocompromised. It's also possible the booster is not just a "refill" but gives you longer stronger immunity than the second shot. Dunno yet. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 09:08
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Fritz the Horse posted:-The mRNA and vectored vaccines (used in the US, Europe, other wealthy Do you have any articles on hand that talk about this? I think I, like most people, took the 60% effectiveness statistic to include everything, from the catching it to the dying of it.
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Nov 30, 2021 09:18
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Sorry yeah it's worded pretty poo poo as it's mostly just a shower thought. I'm just wondering if an infection after being vaccinated has the same effect as getting a booster, is mostly what I'm asking.
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Nov 30, 2021 09:19
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Beartaco posted:Do you have any articles on hand that talk about this? I think I, like most people, took the 60% effectiveness statistic to include everything, from the catching it to the dying of it. That's based on the data from Israel that came out in September. Israel was super fast at getting its population vaccinated which means they were also the first to notice the protection starting to wane. It's super late (2am) here so I'm gonna crash, I'm guessing someone else can you link you recent data so I apologize. I can dig into it tomorrow. But basically what Israel found is that protection against infection dropped off for everyone after several months, you could still catch a milder case and pass it on to others or maybe have long-COVID issues. Protection against hospitalization and severe disease dropped off for elderly and immunocompromised people but not very much for younger/healthier people. There's definitely a difference between sterilizing immunity (virus bouncing off you entirely, no infection) which declines rapidly and protection from severe disease which lasts longer. Helios Grime posted:Sorry yeah it's worded pretty poo poo as it's mostly just a shower thought. I think the answer is probably "kinda?" Catching COVID after you get vaxxed is definitely going to give you a boost of sorts. It's not the same boost as another dose of vaccine though. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 09:26
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Fritz the Horse posted:edit: also when you say immunity declines to 50-60% or so after half a year, that's for infection, how likely the virus is to just bounce off you entirely. You will still have very strong (90-95%+) protection against severe disease and hospitalization. Unless you're elderly or immunocompromised. Woah. I haven't heard of this either.
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Nov 30, 2021 09:29
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Did I misread an earlier post saying the booster only takes a week to build up to full strength? Or does it take two weeks?
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Nov 30, 2021 09:37
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The low numbers (50-60%) are effectiveness against infection. Effectiveness against hospitalization also drops over time, but less dramatically. After six months, it had declined to 90% for non-immunocompromised people. The reason that boosters became a thing was because they were concerned that as time continued, effectiveness against hospitalization would continue to drop, along with effectiveness against death. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/18/covid-vaccine-effectiveness/ quote:Surgeon General Vivek H. Murthy explained at Wednesday’s White House covid briefing how experts settled on the eight-month time frame, citing data showing that about six months after vaccination, mild to moderate infections started increasing. At this point I don't think there are great studies on what happens when you got vaccinated 8+ months ago but don't get a booster. For information on that, you need patients who were qualified and motivated to get vaccinated by March, but then decided not to get a booster when it was available. At this point hopefully that group is small. In six months or a year, there will be more of them.
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Nov 30, 2021 09:39
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i like nice words
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Dick Jones posted:Did I misread an earlier post saying the booster only takes a week to build up to full strength? Or does it take two weeks? This one came out earlier and is what we were going by when boosters began in the US https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114255 Pfizer's chart shows earlier divergence. Pdf, page 18 https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-19/02-COVID-Perez-508.pdf Both of these are Pfizer and are tracking infection (not hospitalization etc.)
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Nov 30, 2021 09:47
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Greece is making vaccination mandatory for citizens aged 60+. Those who don't get the jab will be hit with a monthly 100 euro fine. https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-30/greece-to-make-vaccinations-for-persons-over-60-mandatory-pm-says
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Nov 30, 2021 13:16
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Helios Grime posted:Sorry yeah it's worded pretty poo poo as it's mostly just a shower thought. This is basically “what are the odds of a double vaxxed person getting two breakthrough cases.” I doubt there are any real stats on that yet.
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Nov 30, 2021 13:57
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Lol in the UK, to combat omnicron, they announced everyone is allowed the booster now with 3 months gap to their second dose. But no one told the IT nerds running the booking system, so it now has login queues and a big banner saying no, if you're under 40 or not 3 months from your last dose you still won't be able to book until we update it. If you're over 40 you can book but still need 6 months from the last dose... until they change it and then you could have lopped 3 months off.
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Nov 30, 2021 14:07
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Lol in the UK, to combat omnicron, they announced everyone is allowed the booster now with 3 months gap to their second dose. Literally just discovered this myself, trying to book something. loving poo poo country
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Nov 30, 2021 14:27
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Greece is making vaccination mandatory for citizens aged 60+. Those who don't get the jab will be hit with a monthly 100 euro fine. Yep. They sure did. And.......It's already being discussed in Greece that it will get lowered down to fining age 50's and above in the next couple months. Which then of course will lead to fining 40's, 30's 20's, then parents who are not continuously vaxxing their kids on the governments timeline. I've already been informed that that my EU green pass will become invalidated if I don't get my 3rd booster shot within 6 months, and I'm sure it will be that way continuously, every 3-6 months, until I get the hell out of the EU.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:32
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Lol in the UK, to combat omnicron, they announced everyone is allowed the booster now with 3 months gap to their second dose. A stronger, more prosperous Britain
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Nov 30, 2021 15:37
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Mne nravitsya posted:Yep. They sure did. And.......It's already being discussed in Greece that it will get lowered down to fining age 50's and above in the next couple months. Which then of course will lead to fining 40's, 30's 20's, then parents who are not continuously vaxxing their kids on the governments timeline. Why don't you just get the jab then? Then it won't matter.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:39
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I wish the US had the balls Greece did, that's a good policy
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Nov 30, 2021 15:44
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Why don't you just get the jab then? Then it won't matter. I plan on getting the third one (it makes some level of sense to me) but beyond that, I not really onboard for keeping up this type regimen for the rest of my life. Problem is: in some of these EU countries, they will keep forcing and fining for profit.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:45
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Mu Zeta posted:Moderna CEO is a doom poster. this isn't doom posting if you're the ceo of a vaccine company. doesn't mean the guy isn't right, but it could also just be a pitch to investors, we'll know in a few weeks.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:58
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Mne nravitsya posted:I plan on getting the third one (it makes some level of sense to me) but beyond that, I not really onboard for keeping up this type regimen for the rest of my life. Problem is: in some of these EU countries, they will keep forcing and fining for profit. "That type of regimen" is going to be necessary everywhere, for the foreseeable future, unless a literal deus ex machina miracle occurs. Get used to getting regular booster jabs.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:58
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Mne nravitsya posted:I plan on getting the third one (it makes some level of sense to me) but beyond that, I not really onboard for keeping up this type regimen for the rest of my life. Problem is: in some of these EU countries, they will keep forcing and fining for profit. You know what would really cut into those profit margins? If everyone got the shots! Stick it to the man! They'll be so mad!
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Nov 30, 2021 18:59
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I too am happy to see the level of human illness and death permanently spike globally so I don't have to have a doctor's appointment twice a year.
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Nov 30, 2021 19:50
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Mne nravitsya posted:Yep. They sure did. And.......It's already being discussed in Greece that it will get lowered down to fining age 50's and above in the next couple months. Which then of course will lead to fining 40's, 30's 20's, then parents who are not continuously vaxxing their kids on the governments timeline. where you gonna move to
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Nov 30, 2021 20:09
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Lol in the UK, to combat omnicron, they announced everyone is allowed the booster now with 3 months gap to their second dose. Remember when Yahoo! Groups shut down and it turned out that was a load-bearing component of UK infrastructure? https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/17/20919630/yahoo-groups-uk-ofcom-simwood-numbers
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Nov 30, 2021 20:58
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Gone Fashing posted:where you gonna move to That’s a drat good question. Still trying to figure that out.
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Nov 30, 2021 21:25
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Obviously it was impossible to control because we didn't control it, and if it were possible to control why do I keep insisting we shouldn't bother? 
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Nov 30, 2021 21:46
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Mne nravitsya posted:That’s a drat good question. Still trying to figure that out. You could move to the US, the poster child for controlling covid by not making anyone do anything they don't want to do
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Nov 30, 2021 21:57
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HolHorsejob posted:You could move to the US, the poster child for controlling covid by not making anyone do anything they don't want to do That's a lie, there are vaccine mandates all over the place. Come to Switzerland where we're just starting to think about discussing whether there should be a vaccine mandate for healthcare workers. I work in a college and the absolute most they claim they can do is really sternly ask employees who aren't vaccinated to wear masks although they can't actually check anyone's vaccination status.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:05
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Oklahoma hosed around and found out
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Nov 30, 2021 22:08
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quote:What remained unclear, however, was how the Pentagon planned to enforce the mandate for members of the National Guard while they are on state duty. Most of the time, including when they are training, members are on state duty and answer to their governor. The answer to this brain teaser was, “we won’t pay them and their service won’t count.”
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Nov 30, 2021 22:20
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gohuskies posted:My county has 85% of the age 16+ population fully vaccinated, requires proof of vaccination to go indoors almost anywhere like bars/restaurants/gyms, requires masks everywhere indoors, and we're putting 10,000 booster doses a day in arms. Is that trying nothing? my county is the lowest vaxed outside of fl and we are piling bodies in the streets.
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Nov 30, 2021 22:47
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So when people are saying the spike proteins in Omicron would bypass the vaccine, would it still mean that the current vaccine is still good for preventing severe infection, if not infection itself? Or is there just not enough data to make a call either way currently?
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Nov 30, 2021 23:14
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Unlucky7 posted:So when people are saying the spike proteins in Omicron would bypass the vaccine, would it still mean that the current vaccine is still good for preventing severe infection, if not infection itself? Or is there just not enough data to make a call either way currently? Yes, but also yes. I think is the answer.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:16
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Unlucky7 posted:So when people are saying the spike proteins in Omicron would bypass the vaccine, would it still mean that the current vaccine is still good for preventing severe infection, if not infection itself? Or is there just not enough data to make a call either way currently? I would trust almost nothing on Twitter right now and just assume it's going to be pretty bad.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:20
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dwarf74 posted:Nobody actually knows right now. It probably protects somewhere between "almost as well" and "only mildly well." it's almost certainly better than nothing at all, but hospitalization and death lag detection by a number of weeks. But it's probably on a well to well scale though?
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Nov 30, 2021 23:44
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All we really know for sure is that the variant is out competing Delta in a part of South Africa and has already spread to most developed countries. Everything else is conjecture.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:48
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Elea posted:But it's probably on a well to well scale though? Definitely? Nope. e: It's apparently out-competing delta, not infecting alongside it. Which is still really bad! And still only "apparently." dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 23:52
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quote:Northern Territory Police say "multiple" people have escaped from Darwin's Howard Springs COVID-19 quarantine facility. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-01/multiple-people-escape-howard-springs-quarantine-facility-darwin/100663994
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Nov 30, 2021 23:55
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