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I'm pretty satisfied with my M720. But today I tried it via bluetooth for the first time, and it feels awful. Like as if there's a little bit of acceleration. Maybe it's lag? I'm not sure. Setting are the same as when using a Unifying Receiver. Is that typical, or did Logitech screw something up? BT lag when using a DualShock on this computer was acceptable.
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Dec 2, 2021 07:45
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Rinkles posted:I'm pretty satisfied with my M720. But today I tried it via bluetooth for the first time, and it feels awful. Like as if there's a little bit of acceleration. Maybe it's lag? I'm not sure. Setting are the same as when using a Unifying Receiver. Reviews of some other logi mice with the multi-connect feature have said that they perform worse when connected to multiple PCs at once. So if you were trying out bluetooth on your laptop and the USB dongle was in another PC, you might have been mousing on two PCs at once? Longshot I know, but no reviews of that mouse say using BT changed the feel. Aside from that bluetooth problems are always a mystery. It could be the mouse, the pc's bluetooth receiver, the mouse plus the receiver, the OS / drivers, local interference, or a moon-phase misalignment error.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:12
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There is going to be inherent latency and weird timings of mouse movements with bluetooth. Dual shock will be acceptable because it reports very differently from a mouse and isn't nearly as sensitive to the nature of bluetooth. Klyith posted:Aside from that bluetooth problems are always a mystery. It could be the mouse, the pc's bluetooth receiver, the mouse plus the receiver, the OS / drivers, local interference, or a moon-phase misalignment error. Khorne fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 16:42
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Khorne posted:There is going to be inherent latency and weird timings of mouse movements with bluetooth. Because it has acceptable performance for audio (music, phone conversations, etc.) and is being used widely in a lot of devices, the price for such a chip is pretty low. Therefore, even though it really shouldn't be used in mice, being cheap wins.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:53
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I used to think Logitech's fast scroll wheel was a gimmick or kinda niche, but I immediately miss it going back to a mouse without it.
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Dec 2, 2021 18:21
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Rinkles posted:I used to think Logitech's fast scroll wheel was a gimmick or kinda niche, but I immediately miss it going back to a mouse without it. Yep I’m broken now, too
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Dec 2, 2021 19:15
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Ok, I've spent the last two days with the Artisan Hein and it's a keeper. drat nice mousepad. Super comfortable on my wrist and glides really nicely. Dead quiet and I just generally like how it feels. Thanks again for the recommendation!
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Dec 4, 2021 05:40
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The only thing I used infinity scroll for was to bind it to melee in Warframe and use it to spam melee attacks without giving myself carpal tunnel.
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Dec 4, 2021 06:46
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I use it for work, and big web pages
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Dec 4, 2021 09:27
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Can I use the infinity scroll to snap my fingers and erase all electron apps from existence?
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Dec 4, 2021 20:36
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I was gonna say that an ideal infinity scroll wheel wouldn't require a button to change between scrolling mode. Which I thought was impossible, but apparently that's what the new Basilisk V3 does. It detects what force you use to scroll and changes modes accordingly (though it has manual switching too).
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Dec 5, 2021 12:24
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Logitech mice with the clutch don’t require a button either, Razer’s just about fifteen years late to the party. The MX Revolution, the mouse that introduced hyperscrolling, came with the clutch out of the gate in 2006. They've done mice with and without the clutch since but it's been around forever, the feature's called SmartShift. However, I don’t think Logi has ever put the clutch on gaming focused mice, for reasons that aren’t clear to me. Probably costs/margins. The clutch might change the feel of very minor incremental movements, but given the adjustable tension I don’t think that's a big issue in practice. I know gamers really like notchy wheels, so I'm curious about Razer's implementation. Will need to give it a try and see how it compares to the MX Master 3. kefkafloyd fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 14:24
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I hadn't heard of SmartShift, but my non-gaming Logitech mouse didn't come with it either; probably not high end enough (MSRP $50). e:yeah looks like very few mice have smartshift
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Dec 5, 2021 15:36
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That's something that only comes in the MX Master series and I think the smaller portable versions? I've owned an MX Master 2 and 3, the scroll wheel is as nice to use as it looks. I end up using that functionality a lot to flick up and down long web pages or documents. I think I prefer it to middle mouse click-and-dragging. The MX Master 3 uses a magnetic mouse wheel switch that I've found to be more accurate than any of the physical direct-contact switches, and it isn't as prone to wear either. It has a different feel to it than other mouse wheels I've used, but I got used to it quickly. If only they did their mouse button switches that well. I feel like this must be an intentional choice to make customers replace their mice more frequently. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 21:39
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anyone here a big nerd who has modded their mouse to weigh less? any hot tips on using a dremel to drill holes into the bottom of a mouse shell? Primarily worried about that part.
Khorne fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 07:48
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Well, the Basilisk Ultimate (not quite a $100 dollar mouse thanks to the BF deal) arrived and so far I like it. I'm enjoying that it's a little lighter than the outgoing G502 Lightspeed, though I will say I am missing the sensitivty buttons by M1 (moved to behind the scroll wheel on the Basilisk), but certain I'll get used to that. The shape is so similar to the 502 that it really feels very similar to use, but the thumb rest extending further back is actually something I don't like. I can feel the edge at the back of my thumb whereas the shorter rest on the 502 was more comfortable. Going to take some time to get used to the click feel, but I am relieved at the idea of not having to worry about switches failing. The ability to adjust scroll wheel stiffness was actually a really nice touch and I've got it feeling better than the 502, but this comes at the cost of an infinity scroll toggle. I didn't opt for the dock as I just don't need another thing sitting on the desk. I used to plug in my 502 to charge, so plugging in the Basilisk once a week or whatever isn't really anything I'm going to notice. The Razer software is... well, it's not worse than GHub so far but it's not better either. It seems really laggy though almost like it's running at 24fps or something. Annoyed that I need to have it running constantly to switch the RGB off. Between that and Asus' Armory Crate making GBS threads up my computer with a billion services just to turn off the light on my graphics card... well... gently caress RGB, you should have to install software to turn it on, not to turn it off. Now I need to see if I can fix my 502 or if the switch is just doomed to double click for ever. Either way it'll be a decent backup mouse. I'm collecting too many of these... Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 08:13
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:though I will say I am missing the sensitivty buttons by M1 (moved to behind the scroll wheel on the Basilisk) I wish these buttons were more standard. My main complaint with the G502 was its weight.
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Dec 7, 2021 08:15
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Since the thread's been having a little chat about Artisan mousepads, I thought I'd let any US goons know that Lethal Gaming Gear is doing preorders for an Artisan groupbuy: https://lethalgaminggear.com/collections/artisan
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Dec 9, 2021 01:04
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Hello and good morning Something Awful mouse guru's. What a fine day on this cold rear end day isn't it? Well not for me, for some reason my mouse decided to kinda just die (or is dying) this morning (sometimes the clicks just won't register), so I'm thinking I'll need to find a replacement and that is why I come here to you all! (for recommendations duh). My mouse history was pretty much using a Logitech MX518 (you know that cool rear end red version one) for like a decade or two (literally) until I couldn't find them anymore, then I moved to a Logitech G900, it took some getting use to but I was happy with it, anyway now a few years have passed and it seems Logitech G900's are pretty rare? (and gently caress paying the prices I'm seeing online for such a old mouse at this point - Thanks eBay!). So what's my next move here? I haven't looked at mice since when I was looking for a replacement MX518 (which was the G900) I want something pretty close to the same, I also want it to be wired, no third party software required, no updating firmwares, just plug the drat thing in and use it. Oh and none of that "gamer" LED light show crap. Halp please!
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Dec 10, 2021 20:34
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Im_Special posted:Hello and good morning Something Awful mouse guru's. if you want a literal replacement, Best Buy has the resurrected MX518 for $20 right now https://www.bestbuy.com/site/logitech-g-mx518-wired-optical-gaming-mouse-black-gray/6427398.p?skuId=6427398
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Dec 10, 2021 20:38
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You can turn LEDs off and it saves their state in the mouse's memory & wireless mice have identical latency with batteries that last weeks now. And when you charge them it's just a wire. Top pro gamers use them even. You also left out whether you do or don't want a mouse with gamer holes. Red is probably an mx510 and not mx518. To get the same feel from a new mouse make sure you set DPI/CPI to 800. Shape-wise, no one makes the 518 shape anymore except that logitech refresh. If you want the same thing it's okay, but you could also venture out into different shapes that weigh significantly less. Any "ergonomic" (the stupid name for right handed) mouse with similar grip width and height from the current generation of mice should be fairly comfortable. I'm short on recommendations outside of the g703 having a great shape. But the g703 weighs 95g and is due for a refresh because they could easily get it down to 70g-75g with far better battery life (g703 lasts about a week per charge with 10+ hour per day use.) Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 20:45
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Khorne posted:Any "ergonomic" (the stupid name for right handed) mouse... I feel like this should go on the OP.
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Dec 10, 2021 21:25
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Rinkles posted:if you want a literal replacement, Best Buy has the resurrected MX518 for $20 right now Khorne posted:You can turn LEDs off and it saves their state in the mouse's memory & wireless mice have identical latency with batteries that last weeks now. And when you charge them it's just a wire. Top pro gamers use them even. quote:You also left out whether you do or don't want a mouse with gamer holes. quote:Red is probably an mx510 and not mx518. To get the same feel from a new mouse make sure you set DPI/CPI to 800. quote:If you want the same thing it's okay, but you could also venture out into different shapes that weigh significantly less. Any "ergonomic" (the stupid name for right handed) mouse with similar grip width and height from the current generation of mice should be fairly comfortable. quote:But the g703 weighs 95g and is due for a refresh because they could easily get it down to 70g-75g with far better battery life (g703 lasts about a week per charge with 10+ hour per day use.) Anyway thanks for the suggestion. 
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Dec 10, 2021 22:22
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Wireless mice are at this point straight up better than wired mice, for the most part. There are two reasons to buy a wired mouse at this point - you want an 8000hz sample rate, or you want to save money. Otherwise, wireless is better now. Some people will argue weight but the reality is that they're so light now that the cord interferes far more than the battery. LEDs are on virtually every mouse that's worth using and there isn't a single one that defaults to always off. There's no avoiding it. Logitech mice are the least bad in that regard because their onboard profiles USUALLY work, but every so often it will decide to sneak the RGB back on because gently caress you. Most modern mice that have desirable performance + mechanical switches are not likely to last very long. I personally would only consider mice with optical switches at this point, unless you don't mind buying new mice every 9-18 months. Also Logitech arguably makes the least reliable mice and their warranty service is nothing like it used to be, so have fun with that if you want a mouse where RGB will actually stay off. As far as shape, personally I am a huge advocate for getting away from big + ergo and going to small mice lightweight. Your hands will thank you in the long run. That said, if you are sure you do want another ergo mouse, there are a ton of them out there with good sensors + decent weight. Do not run 800 DPI on a modern mouse, the performance impact is noticeable. Run at least 1600 or 3200 DPI and go through the hassle of properly setting your windows sensitivity to 1/2 or 1/4. You'll get a noticeably faster/smoother response by doing this.
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Dec 10, 2021 22:54
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K8.0 posted:Wireless mice are at this point straight up better than wired mice, for the most part. There are two reasons to buy a wired mouse at this point - you want an 8000hz sample rate, or you want to save money. Otherwise, wireless is better now. Some people will argue weight but the reality is that they're so light now that the cord interferes far more than the battery. weight can be about wrist problems, not just impeding movement
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Dec 10, 2021 22:59
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K8.0 posted:Wireless mice are at this point straight up better than wired mice, for the most part. There are two reasons to buy a wired mouse at this point - you want an 8000hz sample rate, Last I looked into it, those 8000hz mice broke some games because they exposed some engine bottleneck where they couldn't process the sheer volume of input events fast enough Just moving the mouse would tank the frame rate 
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Dec 10, 2021 23:10
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Rinkles posted:weight can be about wrist problems, not just impeding movement If you have wrist issues that are bad enough to feel impact from the fairly trivial difference in weight between the average wired vs wireless mouse, you should be looking at devices that are actually good for ergonomics and joint health. Not a gamer mouse with speed holes. Or at least, the gamer mouse should be a secondary device you only use when gaming. K8.0 posted:Do not run 800 DPI on a modern mouse, the performance impact is noticeable. Run at least 1600 or 3200 DPI and go through the hassle of properly setting your windows sensitivity to 1/2 or 1/4. You'll get a noticeably faster/smoother response by doing this. This goes against pretty much every pro-gamer guide for mouse sensitivity I've ever seen going back literal decades. They all explain that the default setting (notch 6/11 mouse speed in the control panel) is where you should always stay, and adjust mouse DPI instead. Because what that windows slider actually does is either discard mouse events (if below 6) or expand 1 event into 2 pixels (if above 6). Like, use whatever feels good to you -- if someone likes mouse acceleration on, gently caress the pro-gamer guides that say to turn it off. Keep using the settings that feel good to you. But I think your understanding of what the DPI adjustment on the mouse does is off. The mouse's communication with the PC is not analog. Higher DPI just means the mouse sends 2x as many mouse events in the same amount of movement, not that the sensor is taking pictures with twice the resolution or anything like that. Twice as many events sounds good, but half sensitivity just means half of them are thrown out.
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Dec 11, 2021 00:10
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Klyith posted:If you have wrist issues that are bad enough to feel impact from the fairly trivial difference in weight between the average wired vs wireless mouse, you should be looking at devices that are actually good for ergonomics and joint health. Not a gamer mouse with speed holes. Or at least, the gamer mouse should be a secondary device you only use when gaming. All I can say is it makes enough of a difference to me to matter.
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Dec 11, 2021 00:21
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Klyith posted:This goes against pretty much every pro-gamer guide for mouse sensitivity I've ever seen going back literal decades. They all explain that the default setting (notch 6/11 mouse speed in the control panel) is where you should always stay, and adjust mouse DPI instead. Because what that windows slider actually does is either discard mouse events (if below 6) or expand 1 event into 2 pixels (if above 6). That part of those guides stopped being relevant almost 20 years ago. There are no remotely modern games getting 3d mouse input through cursor movement, so the windows setting has no effect on games. Obviously games with a cursor are a different story, since they will often clone the cursor behavior from windows. Yes, windows discards events if you turn the slider down, and expands events if you turn it up. And many of the slider positions are not integer multipliers. So yes, 6/11 is 1:1, and if you're going to change it you should really only change it down and only to the integer ratios - which are notches 1, 2, 3, and 4 for a divisor of 16, 8, 4, and 2 respectively. And know that if you have acceleration on or use the windows 10 interface that has like 20 slider positions, the slider does different things. It's worth looking up the registry values that your desired setting should have produced to double-check when you're done. It's very stupid and MS desperately needs to fix it. Mouse DPI settings matter. If you don't trust BattleNonSense, there are other people who have done similar testing. The way modern mouse sensors work is actually way more complicated than "Hardware generates an event, event is passed along to PC". That was definitely true for ball mice and probably many earlier optical mice, but modern sensors are crazy complicated and are in fact behaving differently depending on the DPI you set them to. There are other issues that have cropped up as well, where some sensors will perform non-linearly at very low or in some cases very high DPI settings.
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Dec 11, 2021 00:59
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Hmm, yeah the latency part makes perfect sense. More movement required to trigger a movement event is basically latency on your movement. Latency is a thing that's not at the front of my mind very much. However, the difference between 800 and 1600 in that test is minuscule. Shaving 2ms of input latency is not "noticeable" to anything except a testing device. And the 100-200 DPI values that show the actively bad results seem pretty outside the norm, even for espurts gaming pros. I still see some downsides though: 1. It still affects windows. A 100% games person doesn't care, but fine mouse movements in windows might feel jumpy or something. Dunno, I'd have to try it and somehow blind test on myself. 2. If you tune with DPI and 6/11, you do get fairly consistent results from game to game without having to do a lot of radical adjustments to each one. Not a problem for someone who is dedicated to their one or two competitive games, but for someone who plays lots of different stuff it's nice to have things just work. K8.0 posted:If you don't trust BattleNonSense, there are other people who have done similar testing. No trust issues, that's a good test. I contend that the results aren't that big a deal though. I just wish this poo poo would get published somewhere other than loving youtube videos where it's impossible to search. I hate that any good info from the last 3-4 years is completely invisible unless you watch videos all day. K8.0 posted:There are other issues that have cropped up as well, where some sensors will perform non-linearly at very low or in some cases very high DPI settings. How much of that is the 600-1000 range though? You say to avoid 800 DPI, but I don't think 800 DPI shows any real problem in latency and I strongly doubt in linearity.
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Dec 11, 2021 03:51
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As he says, he's limited by his testing equipment. More precise testing equipment would like continue the trend of slower movements increasing the threshold for human measurability. Windows actually feels better, because on the software side it's identical, but on the hardware side you're getting a faster and more consistent response. 2ms is more noticeable than you think. I was overall skeptical at first myself, and it felt a bit weird to me at first but going back and forth. I expected it to feel worse but it just feels more like the cursor is attached to my hand. This isn't a 1:1 demo with mouse input, but it's a good example of how you can actually notice drat near every bit of latency reduction you can manage. Increasing your DPI will require you to lower your sens in each game, yes, but it has nothing to do with the windows slider since everything remotely modern ignores it entirely and anything old enough to matter you're probably playing on a source port. Regardless, I don't believe that's a significant issue. I do it by using a ruler to set my 360 to the real-world value I use. I will say that there are some old games that are unplayable at higher DPIs because their minimum sens is so low, but I just swap DPI profiles for them. Stalker for example I find unplayable above 400-600 DPI because the minimum mouse sensitivity is ridiculously high. Klyith posted:I just wish this poo poo would get published somewhere other than loving youtube videos where it's impossible to search. I hate that any good info from the last 3-4 years is completely invisible unless you watch videos all day. Things do tend to get posted other places, the problem is that there aren't really good sources that are commonly linked the way there used to be. Maybe PCGamingWiki could have a section for that or something, I find it to be a generally reasonable source on game-specific configuration stuff. As far as the relationship between DPI and non-linearity, I'd have to dig that up again, but it's sensor-specific and like you said there, it's a pain in the rear end to find if you don't bookmark absolutely everything. I actually found out about that maybe 2 years ago, but I felt like it was a necessary tradeoff for me ignored it until I found out the latency penalty and then started digging into the actual practicality of higher DPI + lower sens. All of this as far as mice really working better at high DPI is actually fairly new to me. You can probably go back a year and find me telling people to use 800 DPI and I was wrong as gently caress. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Dec 11, 2021 |
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Dec 11, 2021 04:37
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kefkafloyd posted:Logitech mice with the clutch don’t require a button either, Razer’s just about fifteen years late to the party. The MX Revolution, the mouse that introduced hyperscrolling, came with the clutch out of the gate in 2006. They've done mice with and without the clutch since but it's been around forever, the feature's called SmartShift. My G502 has the clutch mechanism so Logitech does use it on gaming mice. I have sometimes considered getting a G Pro since I loved the old Razer Diamondback but the G502 has worked fine for three years so I am inclined to stick with it.
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Dec 12, 2021 00:11
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Razer software... I may have spoke too soon saying it's not worse than GHub. I'm regularly catching the RzSDKService.exe using 2 gb of ram, some kind of mem leak. Since I have to keep this horseshit installed to have rgb off, think I'm gonna set up a rule in process lasso to terminate the service once it crosses 100mb or something. I only have 16gb of ram. Or maybe just uninstall and live with the lights. Not sure if this is worse, or GHub's getting stuck on updating every single update, forcing an uninstall, wiping of the LGHub folders in appdata, and then clean reinstalling. On the plus side I did learn that I can uninstall armory crate and it's associated 1.3 billion services and my graphics card light will stay off. However, after using their uninstall tool, I am still spying asus services and it's left a ton of crap on my PC. Nice, Asus. Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 01:05
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Woolie Wool posted:My G502 has the clutch mechanism so Logitech does use it on gaming mice. I have sometimes considered getting a G Pro since I loved the old Razer Diamondback but the G502 has worked fine for three years so I am inclined to stick with it. Isn't hyperscroll switching on the G502 manual only?
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Dec 12, 2021 01:06
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:Razer software... I may have spoke too soon saying it's not worse than GHub. I'm regularly catching the RzSDKService.exe using 2 gb of ram, some kind of mem leak. Since I have to keep this horseshit installed to have rgb off, think I'm gonna set up a rule in process lasso to terminate the service once it crosses 100mb or something. I only have 16gb of ram. Or maybe just uninstall and live with the lights. Not sure if this is worse, or GHub's getting stuck on updating every single update, forcing an uninstall, wiping of the LGHub folders in appdata, and then clean reinstalling. Do NOT use Chroma. Only Synapse. It's still awful, but Chroma is full-blown iCue level "just give my system AIDS bro" and there's no reason to have it installed.
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Dec 12, 2021 01:20
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:Razer software... I may have spoke too soon saying it's not worse than GHub. I'm regularly catching the RzSDKService.exe using 2 gb of ram, some kind of mem leak. Are you sure it's a mem leak and not crypto mining
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Dec 12, 2021 01:49
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poo poo, I think I did install Chroma, but I can't find any way to uninstall it. It's not in the uninstall menu, and all I can do within Synapse is disable "Chroma Apps"? E: Oh wait, I see it now, there's a little "X" that appears in the corner when you mouse over the module in Synapse. Gonna uninstall that poo poo now. E2: Yeah that did it, don't have the leaky service running anymore. Thanks, k8! Eric the Mauve posted:Are you sure it's a mem leak and not crypto mining Wouldn't surprise me at all if Razer's CEO was a cryptobro. Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 03:18
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Rinkles posted:Isn't hyperscroll switching on the G502 manual only? Yeah, he's probably mistaking the manual button for the automatic one that lets go when you're spinning fast enough. Between the G502 and MX Master it's a noticeable difference although the master has a physical button if you always want to freewheel.
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Dec 12, 2021 03:27
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I bought my sister a G305. I like it. Feels quick and responsive but that's probably mostly the weight. If it came with one more button/and or hyperscrolling, I think I'd have to get one myself.
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Dec 13, 2021 01:28
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If it weren't for mechanical switch failures, the G305 would probably be the easiest mouse to recommend to almost everyone. It's very good, it's just that it won't likely last forever. At that price though, maybe people don't need to care.
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Dec 13, 2021 02:13
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