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Ciprian Maricon posted:It's a bad story I guess and I'm deeply sorry for derailing the breakneck pace of discussion here. It resonated with my experience as an immigrant. Congrats though, you've successfully defended the needlessly cruel immigration apparatus of the United States, maybe you should think carefully about why you're interested in doing that before posting here. From one immigrant to another, let me just say: this is god drat embarrassing. You got owned, and are now trying to turn the tables on the person who owned you by accusing them of being motivated to defend the cruel policies of the administration. Maybe the article you posted, and your motivations behind posting it, are reasons why this thread (and those like it) gets such low traffic: it takes much more effort to refute bad faith bullshit from terrible sources than to share it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law quote:Brandolini's law, also known as the bullshit asymmetry principle, is an internet adage that emphasizes the difficulty of debunking false, facetious, or otherwise misleading information:[1] "The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it."[2][3] Maybe instead of complaining about how liberals don't want to discuss this topic, do your drat part to improve the quality of discourse?
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Oct 6, 2021 19:50
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https://twitter.com/raicestexas/status/1445800153030348809?s=21 https://twitter.com/raicestexas/status/1445800742774886403?s=21 https://twitter.com/raicestexas/status/1445801777450807305?s=21
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Oct 6, 2021 20:04
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Slow News Day posted:Maybe instead of complaining about how liberals don't want to discuss this topic, do your drat part to improve the quality of discourse? What discourse? There's a lack of reporting from the national press, its not a priority for the presidential administration, and this thread consistently falls back pages due to inactivity. Yeah I got owned posting a poo poo headline I saw browsing the news this morning but lets not pretend its doing a disservice to the discussion taking place since nothing had been posted to the thread in nearly a week. People are not interested in discussing this here, or nationally, and its not because I am a bad poster. Is this worse or better than when the administration responds to judicial orders with vague language about how its DoJs defacto job to challenge those orders? Does a more detailed response to indicate that they are more entrenched or less?
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Oct 6, 2021 20:33
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For what it’s worth, the CBP did contact the Examiner:quote:In a statement provided after the publication of this article, CBP said: “Nothing has changed. The agents involved are on administrative duties. Horse Patrol Units continue to be deployed based on operational assessments.”
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Oct 6, 2021 21:07
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Yeah I got owned posting a poo poo headline I saw browsing the news this morning but lets not pretend its doing a disservice to the discussion taking place since nothing had been posted to the thread in nearly a week. posting bullshit misinformation is actually worse than not posting at all
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Oct 6, 2021 21:15
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Getting increasingly granular on the specfics about the abuses of American Border Policing seems pointless and just designed to obfuscate and compartmentalize for people who don't want to pay attention to how evil our entire policy is. Like I'm not sure it really matters whether border patrol is chasing people down with horses or cars the problem is the people are there and we're chasing them down. Has Biden taken any executive actions to lessen the pain and suffering or admit more people? Has the Democratic Majority in congress introduced and advanced any immigration reform?
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Oct 6, 2021 21:19
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https://apnews.com/article/immigration-donald-trump-mexico-0fe1661697279584fbb0ecf623cb6187 US plans to reinstate ‘Remain in Mexico’ policy next month The Biden administration said it plans to reinstate a Trump-era border policy next month to make asylum-seekers wait in Mexico for hearings in U.S. immigration court, complying with a judge’s order. ...
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Oct 15, 2021 15:27
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PeterCat posted:https://apnews.com/article/immigration-donald-trump-mexico-0fe1661697279584fbb0ecf623cb6187 Blatantly violating the law on seeking asylum, but Republicans initiate and Democrats codify.
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Oct 15, 2021 17:26
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Come on, read your own link, jesus. https://apnews.com/article/immigration-donald-trump-mexico-0fe1661697279584fbb0ecf623cb6187 "President Donald Trump introduced in January 2019 and Biden suspended on his first day in office. A federal judge sided with the states of Texas and Missouri by ordering the Biden administration in August to reinstate the policy"
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Oct 16, 2021 15:25
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That sounds a whole lot like a 'Just following orders' defense (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 16, 2021 15:34
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Come on, read your own link, jesus. So he is doing exactly what the op said, good to know.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:43
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Bel Shazar posted:That sounds a whole lot like a 'Just following orders' defense ???
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Oct 16, 2021 16:06
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It’s fascist poo poo even if a court is telling you to do it.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:08
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Bel Shazar posted:That sounds a whole lot like a 'Just following orders' defense Nucleic Acids posted:So he is doing exactly what the op said, good to know. If you wanna argue that Biden should say "gently caress the courts" and simply defy any authority that prevents him from changing immigration rules - something even Trump the so-called fascist didn't dare to do - then loving come out and say it straight-up. Don't just needle people with one-liners like this, have the guts to actually state and explain your opinion.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:15
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https://www.sfchronicle.com/nation/article/Trump-administration-appears-to-be-ignoring-court-15516924.php Basically Joe Biden is a less effective president than Donald Trump. There are a myriad ways of not complying by either slow walking or forming a committee to talk about it or how about this calling up his buddies in Congress who he worked with for decades and getting them to pass some kind of bill to deal with the problem of immigrants on the border. Instead of doing any of that he's just going to roll over and comply with the court ruling and throw up his hand and saying apparently being president of the United States is a position without power.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:24
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Main Paineframe posted:If you wanna argue that Biden should say "gently caress the courts" and simply defy any authority that prevents him from changing immigration rules - something even Trump the so-called fascist didn't dare to do - then loving come out and say it straight-up. Don't just needle people with one-liners like this, have the guts to actually state and explain your opinion. Alright, he should tell them to go pound sound over them trying to force fascist poo poo.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:28
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President Obama ignored immigration law when it suited him. https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/obamas-policy-strategy-ignore-laws-077486 Politico posted:President Barack Obama returned Friday to a trusted tactic — satisfying his political allies by not doing something.
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Oct 16, 2021 16:44
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Main Paineframe posted:If you wanna argue that Biden should say "gently caress the courts" and simply defy any authority that prevents him from changing immigration rules - something even Trump the so-called fascist didn't dare to do - then loving come out and say it straight-up. Don't just needle people with one-liners like this, have the guts to actually state and explain your opinion. I think Biden should say "gently caress the courts" and simply defy any authority that prevents him from dismantling our horrifically evil white supremacist immigration laws, including the concentration camps we've constructed and maintained while operating under those laws, yes.
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Oct 16, 2021 18:01
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Main Paineframe posted:If you wanna argue that Biden should say "gently caress the courts" and simply defy any authority that prevents him from changing immigration rules - something even Trump the so-called fascist didn't dare to do - then loving come out and say it straight-up. Don't just needle people with one-liners like this, have the guts to actually state and explain your opinion. I think that Biden should say "gently caress the courts" if the courts are enforcing white supremacist laws.
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Oct 16, 2021 18:08
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Main Paineframe posted:If you wanna argue that Biden should say "gently caress the courts" and simply defy any authority that prevents him from changing immigration rules - something even Trump the so-called fascist didn't dare to do - then loving come out and say it straight-up. Don't just needle people with one-liners like this, have the guts to actually state and explain your opinion. Article 1 1. A subject of the state is a person who enjoys the protection of the German Reich and who in consequence has specific obligations toward it. 2. The status of subject of the state is acquired in accordance with the provisions of the Reich and the Reich Citizenship Law. Article 2 1. A Reich citizen is a subject of the state who is of German or related blood, and proves by his conduct that he is willing and fit to faithfully serve the German people and Reich. 2. Reich citizenship is acquired through the granting of a Reich citizenship certificate. 3. The Reich citizen is the sole bearer of full political rights in accordance with the law. Article 3 The Reich Minister of the Interior, in coordination with the Deputy of the Führer, will issue the legal and administrative orders required to implement and complete this law. Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor of September 15, 1935 Moved by the understanding that purity of German blood is the essential condition for the continued existence of the German people, and inspired by the inflexible determination to ensure the existence of the German nation for all time, the Reichstag has unanimously adopted the following law, which is promulgated herewith: Article 1 1. Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or related blood are forbidden. Marriages nevertheless concluded are invalid, even if concluded abroad to circumvent this law. 2. Annulment proceedings can be initiated only by the state prosecutor. Article 2 Extramarital relations between Jews and citizens of German or related blood are forbidden. Article 3 Jews may not employ in their households female subjects of the state of Germany or related blood who are under 45 years old. Article 4 1. Jews are forbidden to fly the Reich or national flag or display Reich colors. 2. They are, on the other hand, permitted to display the Jewish colors. The exercise of this right is protected by the state. Article 5 1. Any person who violates the prohibition under Article 1 will be punished with a prison sentence with hard labor. 2. A male who violates the prohibition under Article 2 will be punished with a jail term or a prison sentence with hard labor. 3. Any person violating the provisions under Articles 3 or 4 will be punished with a jail term of up to one year and a fine, or with one or the other of these penalties. Article 6 The Reich Minister of the Interior, in coordination with the Deputy of the Führer and the Reich Minister of Justice, will issue the legal and administrative regulations required to implement and complete this law. Article 7 The law takes effect on the day following promulgation, except for Article 3, which goes into force on January 1, 1936. Nuremberg, September 15, 1935 At the Reich Party Congress of Freedom Ignoring these laws and denying authority would be fascism. Things have to be done the right way. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 16, 2021 18:20
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Main Paineframe posted:If you wanna argue that Biden should say "gently caress the courts" and simply defy any authority that prevents him from changing immigration rules - something even Trump the so-called fascist didn't dare to do - then loving come out and say it straight-up. Don't just needle people with one-liners like this, have the guts to actually state and explain your opinion. All branches of US federal and state governments are absolute jokes and people should stop pretending we have a functioning democracy.
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Oct 16, 2021 19:02
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Bel Shazar posted:All branches of US federal and state governments are absolute jokes and people should stop pretending we have a functioning democracy. Thanks for the hot take.
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Oct 16, 2021 21:25
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Bel Shazar posted:All branches of US federal and state governments are absolute jokes and people should stop pretending we have a functioning democracy. i will not stand by and watch the continued tyranny of the new hampshire amusement ride safety commission
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Oct 16, 2021 21:30
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GreyjoyBastard posted:i will not stand by and watch the continued tyranny of the new hampshire amusement ride safety commission Let's look at this another way. I posted a story about how Biden is going to reinstitute Stay in Mexico, and the discussion then turned to the merits of him ignoring the judicial order, with several examples given of former presidents ignoring laws and judicial orders in the past. Showing that there is precedent for doing so. Wouldn't it be better to engage that argument than responding to a "hot take?" PeterCat fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Oct 16, 2021 |
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Oct 16, 2021 21:57
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PeterCat posted:Let's look at this another way. I posted a story about how Biden is going to reinstitute Stay in Mexico, and the discussion then turned to the merits of him ignoring the judicial order, with several examples given of former presidents ignoring laws and judicial orders in the past. Showing that there is precedent for doing so. You've provided two examples that I can see here. For the first, after the court decision, Trump slow-rolled the DACA application process by asserting a review. He was able to do this in part due to an ambiguity in the ruling's application to the law. This tactic was, itself, reversed by a later court ruling. The Politico example discussing Obama (setting aside other significant problems with the piece) relies on his application of enforcement discretion activity prior to a court order. It also points out that Obama's own application of discretion was unusual and invited reversal. So, charitably, your sources don't support the argument you're trying to use them for.
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Oct 16, 2021 23:19
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Main Paineframe posted:If you wanna argue that Biden should say "gently caress the courts" and simply defy any authority that prevents him from changing immigration rules - something even Trump the so-called fascist didn't dare to do - then loving come out and say it straight-up. Don't just needle people with one-liners like this, have the guts to actually state and explain your opinion.
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Oct 17, 2021 08:17
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Ruzihm posted:Looks like Biden's Assistant Attorney General submitted an "appeal to a federal court order requiring U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to vaccinate medically vulnerable people in its custody." In an update to this - the 9th court has overturned the original injunction  quote:SUMMARY* source: https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2021/10/20/20-55634.pdf The civil rights groups responsible for the case are not pleased with this: https://twitter.com/creeclaw/status/1450888614800285711 https://twitter.com/splcenter/status/1451215454140313613 splc posted:Montgomery, Ala. – The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) issued the following statement by Ben Salk, Senior Staff Attorney, following the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals’ decision to reverse a federal judge’s April 2020 order, which required Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to identify and release people with medical risk factors from ICE detention centers across the country, offer vaccinations, and take other steps to protect vulnerable people in its custody from COVID-19.
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Oct 21, 2021 18:42
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Anyone want to take bets on how soon a Guardsman will shoot a migrant at the Texas-Mexico border? https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/21/abbott-deploys-armed-national-guard-to-border-to-arrest-illegal-aliens-for-trespassing/ The Federalist posted:Texas Gov. Greg Abbott gave the green light for thousands of specially trained National Guard troops to go to the Southern U.S. border and begin making arrests of illegal aliens who are trespassing in the state. Biden should do what Eisenhower did and Federalize the Texas National Guard. That would take the Texas Governor out of the chain of command.
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Oct 22, 2021 06:20
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This is insane. ICE will happily arrests anywhere outside of these designated safe zones. This isn't what good policy looks like and does nothing to deal with the underling issues. U.S. immigration authorities will no longer make routine arrests at schools, hospitals or a range of other “protected” areas, under new guidelines released Wednesday by the Department of Homeland Security. As part of a further effort to make immigration more targeted, agents and officers are being directed to consider the impact of enforcement actions on communities as well as “broader societal interests,” DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in announcing the new guidelines. “We can accomplish our law enforcement mission without denying individuals access to needed medical care, children access to their schools, the displaced access to food and shelter, people of faith access to their places of worship, and more,” Mayorkas said. The move, part of a series of measures taken under President Joe Biden to unwind some of the harsh immigration policies of his predecessor, is likely to further alienate critics who say weaker enforcement encourages migrants to seek to enter the country illegally. The action announced by Mayorkas adds to previous policies that directed U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to stop carrying out arrests at courthouses and to have agents and officers focus on people in the country illegally who have entered recently, pose a national security threat or have committed serious crimes. On the list of places that will now be off-limits to enforcement actions are schools; day care and medical facilities; places of worship; playgrounds and recreation centers and demonstrations and rallies. The new policy is similar to enforcement guidelines issued under President Barack Obama. President Donald Trump’s administration sparked criticism for seeking to arrest and remove anyone in the country illegally regardless of criminal history or community ties. Biden also reversed a Trump policy of detaining people for immigration violations when they showed up to court for other matters.
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Oct 28, 2021 04:09
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Customs and Border Protection's August update. Highlights are 93,414 people processed for expulsion under Title 42. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-august-2021-operational-update CBP Releases August 2021 Operational Update Release Date: September 15, 2021 WASHINGTON — U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) today released operational statistics for August 2021, which can be viewed online here. “In August, U.S. Customs and Border Protection played an important role in Operation Allies Refuge and Operation Allies Welcome, as well as in support of the Gulf Coast after CBP SealHurricane Ida and the people of Haiti after their earthquake. We rose to those challenges even as we continued our vital work in support of our economy and national security at our ports of entry and along our borders,” said CBP Acting Commissioner Troy Miller. “In August, CBP processed a significant growth of legitimate travel and trade, with commercial truck transit on par with numbers at this point in Fiscal Year 2019, and passenger vehicle, pedestrian travel, and air travel numbers continuing to progress toward pre-pandemic levels. "The men and women at CBP continue to step up to meet the demands of high numbers of encounters at our southern border. CBP recorded 2 percent fewer encounters in August than July. The vast majority of single adults encountered in August, along with a substantial share of families, continued to be expelled under the CDC's Title 42 authority." CBP Enforcement Numbers for August 2021 The large number of expulsions during the pandemic has contributed to a larger-than-usual number of migrants making multiple border crossing attempts, which means that total encounters somewhat overstate the number of unique individuals arriving at the border. The number of unique encounters in August 2021 was 156,641. In total, there were 208,887 encounters along the Southwest Border, a 2 percent drop compared to July. Of those, 25 percent involved individuals who had at least one prior encounter in the previous 12 months, compared to an average one-year re-encounter rate of 14 percent for Fiscal Years 2014-2019. Nearly half (49 percent) of encounters were single adults, with 103,129 encounters in August, a 7 percent decrease compared to July. 93,414 encounters, more than 44 percent of the total, were processed for expulsion under Title 42. 115,473 encounters were processed under Title 8. 76,895 encounters involving single adults (75 percent) were processed for expulsion under Title 42, with 26,234 processed under Title 8. 16,240 encounters involving family unit individuals (19 percent) were processed for expulsion under Title 42, with 70,247 processed under Title 8. A total of 1,002,722 unique individuals have been encountered year-to-date during Fiscal Year 2021, compared to 851,513 during the same time period in Fiscal Year 2019. In July, CBP began a Repeat Offender initiative, under which single adults who have previously been apprehended and deported under Title 8 are referred for prosecution. As part of the United States’ mitigation efforts in response to the rise in COVID-19 cases due to the Delta variant, the Department of Homeland Security has begun to transport individuals expelled under Title 42 by plane to the Mexican interior. Certain individuals who are not able to be expelled under Title 42 are placed in expedited removal proceedings. Expedited removal provides an accelerated procedure to remove individuals who do not have a basis under U.S. law to be in the United States. So far in Fiscal Year 2021, U.S. Border Patrol agents have placed nearly 72,000 migrants in expedited removal proceedings. Unaccompanied Children Encounters of unaccompanied children decreased 1 percent, with 18,847 encounters in August compared with 18,958 in July. In August, the average number of unaccompanied children in CBP custody was 1,435 per day, compared with an average of 1,353 per day in July. Family Unit individuals Encounters of family unit individuals increased by 4 percent from 83,493 in July to 86,487 in August—still below the peak of 88,587 encounters in May 2019. The number of encounters with family unit individuals so far this fiscal year (415,185) remains below the number of encounters at the same point in Fiscal Year 2019 (505,102).
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Oct 29, 2021 06:36
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https://twitter.com/BuddJenn/status/1454104490878009347?s=20quote:The Southern Border Communities Coalition, a network of organizations in California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas sent a letter to Congress, “To sound the alarm on the dangerous overreach of the illegal operation of U.S. Border Patrol’s unlaw Critical Incident Teams.”  While its not suprising these exist, its still eye opening.
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Oct 29, 2021 16:17
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Devastating ProPublica investigative piece on a Chicago shelter for Afghan child refugees:quote:Dozens of Traumatized Afghan Kids Struggle Inside a Shelter That’s Ill-Equipped to Care for Them
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Oct 30, 2021 23:57
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Another immigration story likely destined for the p. 2 memory hole, but I thought it was notable bc of the implications it might hold for U.S. for-profit prisons holding non-immigrants, which might generate some interest counter to the prevailing trend of "out of sight, out of mind" as applied to current immigration issues:quote:Owner of Washington for-profit detention center owes immigrant detainees $17 million in back pay, jury rules https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-...jury-rules.html Any lawyers out there who can weigh in on whether the judgment has broader implications for for-profit prisons in general?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:02
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Willa Rogers posted:Devastating ProPublica investigative piece on a Chicago shelter for Afghan child refugees: Maybe people don't want to discuss it with you, that's a very real possibility. Nobody engaged with my post in there either. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 16:20
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CommieGIR posted:Maybe people don't want to discuss it with you, that's a very real possibility. Nobody engaged with my post in there either. That could very well be the case! I wasn't alleging a conspiracy; your post reminded me that I found this story at least as newsworthy as Mike Pompeo's current skin tone & weight when I came across it. I also had a question for lawyers in the post above yours, and legal questions usually elicit responses in dnd. eta: Thanks for bumping this thread to page 1, though! Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 16:32
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Willa Rogers posted:That could very well be the case! I wasn't alleging a conspiracy; your post reminded me that I found this story at least as newsworthy as Mike Pompeo's current skin tone & weight when I came across it. Yeah, I think it DOES need to be discussed. Hope bumping it helped.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:43
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What is the best proposed "smart border" security. I recall reading ideas people were proposing for US border security that involved drone fleets that would autonomously patrol the border using IR sensors to detect human heat signatures and track/ route border patrol to intercept and by analyzing the data they can make heatmaps of where the largest inflow of illegal entries occur and make purpose-based fortifications or create new Border Patrol agent outposts in those areas. I support the idea that the border is best being as secure as possible and I mainly hear the latest updates when they're in the news cycles, but I don;t have a good pulse on the day-to-day of how plans are evolving. Does anyone have info or perspective on the "smart" style border defenses?
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Dec 2, 2021 16:51
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Considering the way experts have been treated in D&D lately, don't be surprised if your questions don't elicit responses like they used to in the past.
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Dec 2, 2021 21:14
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You mean being told to lay off their personal attacks based on ideology? That mistreatment? There isn't a  big enough if they can't answer people with a civil tongue (or fingers), or are forced to share online spaces among people with differing opinions.I think it's more that people have lost interest in the concentration camps since they stopped being called concentration camps. Ain't no one interested in locked-up kids unless a cheeto is doing the locking up.
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Dec 2, 2021 22:46
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Willa Rogers posted:You mean being told to lay off their personal attacks based on ideology? That mistreatment? There isn't a I like how you complain about others doing attacks then can't even finish the post without doing some yourself, continuing the same hostility that keeps anyone from posting here.
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Dec 2, 2021 23:02
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