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Niric posted:
Congratulations lad and to all new goon parents. Good to hear the left is growing. Mine are two and five now, can barely remember the times I used to be able to hold them in one hand.
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Dec 3, 2021 12:17
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congrats both!
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Convex posted:Voting rights need to be restored to prisoners. Everyone living in the country gets a vote, that's how it works, otherwise it's a sham. Voting rights need to be restricted from pensioners. Also TIL Apex Twin's sister is not only a Labour MP, she's in the Shadow Cabinet.
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Dec 3, 2021 12:17
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Gonzo McFee posted:Also TIL Apex Twin's sister is not only a Labour MP, she's in the Shadow Cabinet. I thought the person screaming "I want your soul" was Mandy but seems I stand corrected.
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Dec 3, 2021 12:19
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Would that be Aphex' Fraternal Twin
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Dec 3, 2021 12:21
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Gonzo McFee posted:Also TIL Apex Twin's sister is not only a Labour MP, she's in the Shadow Cabinet. She did a helpful thing once wrt a local pro-Kurd/anti-Turkey campaign a few years ago, other than that I think she's pretty typical Welsh Labour (i.e. soft-left liberal melt but better than the PLP) e: googling it she supported OMOV for Welsh leadership elections back when it was on the table in 2018, which is the measure of A Good 'Un round here imo Borrovan fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 12:28
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Brexit metaphor of the day… https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1466696225193922563
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Dec 3, 2021 12:31
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https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1466730396691976195 lmao Keith is surrounded by people who manipulate him with ease.
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Dec 3, 2021 12:32
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Kier Starmer: somehow worse than Ed Miliband
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Dec 3, 2021 12:36
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therattle posted:
The same Human Rights Watch that's run by a former federal prosecutor and pushes for US sanctions against Nicaragua and Venezuela and supported the far-right coup in Bolivia, you mean?
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Dec 3, 2021 12:37
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Borrovan posted:lmao she's my MS, I did not know that. She's a Welsh Government Minister, not Shadow Cabinet. Also she's responsible for implementing TAN15 which is going to be hilarious for all the reactions it's causing to by the councils that love giving big business, big ugly buildings.
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Dec 3, 2021 12:38
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crispix posted:if you take a moment to think about it it's probably not a good idea to add the mental and physiological turmoil of sudden withdrawal to people who are locked up in a prison Again, to tories they're not people E ah, my point has already been made!
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Dec 3, 2021 12:38
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Convex posted:Remember when Michael Gove wanted to get rid of prison books as well. It's all about the cruelty. 'Rehabilitation' is the public justification and nothing more. therattle posted:This is an even worse policy than depriving prisoners of books. Very similar in that they all start with "but I don't like..." and work backwards, but also because as in many of those cases the thing they don't actually like is other people and society. smellmycheese posted:Brexit metaphor of the day… That's a loving 6 pounder or something  
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Dec 3, 2021 12:43
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Borrovan posted:e: ^^^ my partner's done a whole bunch of research into the psychology of prison wardens that can be summarised as "Basically They're Just Cunts", wishful thinking imo I totally agree with that (and with the assessment of prison officers. I have always wondered who the hell becomes one, unless people are just desperate for work) . But I wasn't the one asking for non-Western sources. That's why I mentioned first-0hand accounts in the NYer piece and the report referred to in the ALJ article which was based on scraping publicly-available Chinese sources. Cookie Cutter posted:The same Human Rights Watch that's run by a former federal prosecutor and pushes for US sanctions against Nicaragua and Venezuela and supported the far-right coup in Bolivia, you mean? I guess so. it appears that they have since acknowledged that there was a coup in Bolivia. Even if you think they are biased that doesn't automatically disqualify their reporting. It just means it should be taken with a pinch of salt. But if they are so untrustworthy and biased I suppose you therefore also discount their characterisation of Israel's policies towards Palestinians as apartheid? Guavanaut posted:I read an interesting thing last month about the false logic of 'risk compensation' and how it provided an ideal argument to the reflexively anti-everything brigade for everything from "I don't want to wear a seatbelt" in the 70s to "I don't want to wear a mask" last year, and how that ties into the reactionary mindset of "actually welfare increases poverty because" and "actually birth control increases unwanted pregnancy" and so on, and you can see very similar bad arguments in this plan. That's a very interesting article, thanks. And that shell gives a new meaning to explosive orgasm. therattle fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 12:47
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Gonzo McFee posted:lmao Keith is surrounded by people who manipulate him with ease. #freeKeir
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Dec 3, 2021 12:51
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domhal posted:#freeKeir Oh, that reminds me, my parents in South Africa recently asked me what I thought about Keith Starmer.
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Dec 3, 2021 12:53
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therattle posted:
You can make whatever assumptions you like about what I believe, but if that's how you choose to engage then don't expect a reply.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:02
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therattle posted:(and with the assessment of prison officers. I have always wondered who the hell becomes one, unless people are just desperate for work) The rest of them are just petty vindictive tyrants, the kind of people who just want to push people around & feel superior to them. The ones in charge are the worst, there's a whole culture of rewarding people who go the extra mile in arbitrarily making life lovely for the prisoners. Can't go into any detail as there's very few people with her exact research interests, but trust me it's bad, especially wrt treatment of vulnerable prisoners. It's a bit like the whole self-correcting corollary to ACAB, that in the unlikely event of a good person accidentally becoming a police they either stop being a police or stop being a good person.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:06
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Cookie Cutter posted:You can make whatever assumptions you like about what I believe, but if that's how you choose to engage then don't expect a reply. Fair enough; I was a bit pissy. In that case, what is your take on their assessment of the Uighur situation, since that is the subject at hand? Or are they simply an unreliable source, in your view? if so, I don't know how one can make any kind of assessment of what is going on. Borrovan posted:My partner's interviewed a lot of them, and has met nice ones, who without exception have been (a)new hires, (b)who were desperate for work, and (c)absolutely miserable in their jobs, so (d)either about to quit or working out their notice. Unfortunately this is not at all surprising.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:07
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therattle posted:I totally agree with that (and with the assessment of prison officers. I have always wondered who the hell becomes one, unless people are just desperate for work) . Anecdotally, my former housemate. Who also was a special constable previously, and now is a tube driver. He lasted about two and a half months on active duty in the prison service- the picture he painted of conditions was loving terrifying, both for staff and prisoners. Quite how a Belgian dude who literally has never owned a toothbrush and showers maybe once a month managed to get into not one but two uniformed services I will leave as an exercise for the reader. Edit: quote:My partner's interviewed a lot of them, and has met nice ones, who without exception have been (a)new hires, (b)who were desperate for work, and (c)absolutely miserable in their jobs, so (d)either about to quit or working out their notice. This would track. At the time he owed me over 14k in back rent, had been unemployed for years and was absolutely desperate. Despite his disgusting personal habits he’s actually a good guy at heart, and did genuinely do his best to help out the people who he was responsible for, and was pretty well regarded by most of them. He however ended up stuck alone at the wrong end of the prison during a riot due to chronic understaffing, after which he justifiably said ‘gently caress this’. Camrath fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 13:09
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Oh I absolutely didn’t mean they’d refuse out of some principal or humanity. Obviously screws are horrible bastards. I more meant the logistics and hassle of having to deal with it, rather than any sort of empathy they might feel. Lots of making GBS threads, vomiting, seizures etc. that would probably interrupt a perfectly good day of abusing slightly less messy inmates.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:23
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Yeah fair point, but otoh: fully sanctioned plausibly deniable torture, what's not to love
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Dec 3, 2021 13:29
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I see Hodge has said she will step down at the next election.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:31
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Borrovan posted:Yeah fair point, but otoh: fully sanctioned plausibly deniable torture, what's not to love This is true. Withdrawals don’t even leave bruises!
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Dec 3, 2021 13:32
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Plenty of drugs come in through the guards anyway - they may not mind this too much at all. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/dfb1714b-4caa-4c87-8d66-3891ed77d5a8
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Dec 3, 2021 13:37
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Jakabite posted:Withdrawals don’t even leave bruises!
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Dec 3, 2021 13:42
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Two of my mum's siblings worked in the prison service, her sister and her brother. They are both good people, who have real empathy and speak with respect about the people who used to be under their care. Used to be, because they both quit very early after the job completely destroyed their mental and physical health. And they both have horrifying and predictable things to say about some of the folk they worked alongside.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:45
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Screws are every failing in the police system except they don't even have to tell the lie that they're protecting the public. Pigs without the smiling face.
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Dec 3, 2021 13:58
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fuctifino posted:I'm still in shock over this. Imagine drawing up policies with the intention of killing as many people as possible? How the gently caress can someone wake up one day and decide to do this? I genuinely don't get it. I suspect the thought process goes "drug use is a moral failing on the part of the user" > "therefore hurting them is the right thing to do and will stop them" > "anyone who says otherwise is just wrong, because if they weren't wrong then that would mean there is something wrong with my understanding of the universe, and that can't be the case" It could be considered sympathetic, in a world that only exists inside their heads, but unfortunately also exists inside the heads of a lot of people in the country, because a lot of people live in a shared delusion. Guavanaut posted:57mm, so 2¼" From the description it was a spent sabot round, so not the big part at the back... Just the tip  E: also I want to express my appreciation for the wikipedia page on the QF 6lb'er for including a picture of a crew of shirtless canadians playing with one  E2: also also if it is a sabot round it actually looks more like this so explains how he got it stuck in there: 
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 14:00
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My sister in law used to be a prison officer; she left after only a couple of years due to the stress and abuse she got, not from the prisoners but from her 'fellow' officers who decided she didn't have the right attitude and played fun pranks like 'accidentally' locking her alone in the wing and letting the prisoners out. I also had a friend who was a prison librarian who had some stories to tell, so I'm aware of some of the poo poo that can go on down there. A Belgian who never owned a toothbrush though?  that poo poo.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:15
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59518669 Yorkshire racism scandal: Martyn Moxon and Andrew Gale among 16 staff to leave.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:45
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Convex posted:Kier Starmer: somehow worse than Ed Miliband from Ed's post-leader career he does seem to have the capacity to actually care about things. I'm trying to picture what Starmer's podcast will sound like five years after resigning. Today on Reasons To Be Neutral we are talking about the best shades of dark blue for formal suits
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Dec 3, 2021 14:50
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OwlFancier posted:I suspect the thought process goes "drug use is a moral failing on the part of the user" > "therefore hurting them is the right thing to do and will stop them" > "anyone who says otherwise is just wrong, because if they weren't wrong then that would mean there is something wrong with my understanding of the universe, and that can't be the case"
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Dec 3, 2021 14:53
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Angepain posted:from Ed's post-leader career he does seem to have the capacity to actually care about things. I'm trying to picture what Starmer's podcast will sound like five years after resigning. Today on Reasons To Be Neutral we are talking about the best shades of dark blue for formal suits Keith seems like the kind of person who'd sign on as advisor to Jair Bolsonaro in his post-presidential career as a prison warden.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:57
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TACD posted:Is it supposed to be sympathetic? I thought it was just “they’re junkies, why are we spending money on helping them? They got into this mess, they need to get themselves out of it” What I am getting at is that a lot of people believe that approach is genuinely the best way to help people. Which, clearly it is not, but re: the question of "how do people just decide to do this" I think it is entirely common for people to believe that 1. they aren't really being cruel and 2. even if they were it is actually doing people a favour. That way, you see, they get all the pleasure of being cruel to people and also the feeling that they are doing everybody a favour.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:00
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Also don't forget anyone who votes Tory has likely had zero interaction with anyone with a heroin addiction. So they almost certainly believe "Oh just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, a bit of willpower and stiff upper lip". Of course, they'll have never given up anything stronger than cigarettes, but still, that makes them experts.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:03
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Also don't forget anyone who votes Tory has likely had zero interaction with anyone with a heroin addiction. So they almost certainly believe "Oh just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, a bit of willpower and stiff upper lip". They were probably out of a job for a few weeks in the 80's and got themselves back on top without needing anyone elses help, thank you very much. Also student grants and cheap mortgages and actual careers and pensions all existed then but that's not help, they deserved it
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Dec 3, 2021 15:14
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Also don't forget anyone who votes Tory has likely had zero interaction with anyone with a heroin addiction. 
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Dec 3, 2021 15:17
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OwlFancier posted:What I am getting at is that a lot of people believe that approach is genuinely the best way to help people. I imagine it’s a similar mindset to how I think of flat-earthers or young earth creationists; at this point I don’t really care about the best approach to bring you around, you’re too stupid for me to deal with and so I just won’t.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:37
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TACD posted:I imagine it’s a similar mindset to how I think of flat-earthers or young earth creationists; at this point I don’t really care about the best approach to bring you around, you’re too stupid for me to deal with and so I just won’t. Anti-vaxxers and covid denialists too!
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Dec 3, 2021 15:42
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One of the benefits of the way of thinking I outlined is that it very easily offers a post-hoc justification for that simple prejudice. You find the object of your ire viscerally revolting, you then quickly and largely subconsciously fabricate a reason why doing the thing you want to do anyway is actually a good thing to do, then you think you are being kind and generous while pursuing a course that is vindictive and cruel, and you then get very annoyed at any suggestion that you or your peers are actually being vindictive and cruel because you simply do not believe that reality is the way it is. Very visible, I think, among tories, such as how IDS thinks he is helping people. If it were simply a conscious indulgence of cruelty, that would potentially be easier to attack, but what I think has been demonstrated is that it is entirely possible to be monstrously cruel, call it kindness, and a very large number of people will agree with you and be genuinely self righteous and indignant at any suggestion that what you are doing is cruelty. It isn't an act, I don't even think it's doublethink, I don't think it causes any cogntiive dissonance, it's just that through the power of this way of thinking, reality can be selectively erased from perception so as to facilitate a genuine and wholehearted belief that the world is not the way it actually is.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:47
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