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Quick thoughts about episode 5: So, there are yellow mages which supposedly are the healers :check: Mat got hit really hard. Please cure his emo. Perrin Wolfpower is either cool or really corny. Still undecided. Whitecloaks are jsut evil assholes. Torturing and killing random people? Somebody upthread mentioned, Aes Sedai are not allowed to interfere. But could they, unintentionally of course, unleash Dragon-guy in the middle of their camp, please? This was maybe my favourite episode so far. The hint of politicking in the castle had an air of early Game of Thrones. Also, Morgaine acted the HELL out of that burial scene. This could have been really emotional if they did a better job of portraying Stepins grief and barely holding on. Maybe just by showing his face go sad a second longer after joking with his friends or idk. What i'm trying to say, the director should have watched how Arcane did it. Overall the show is getting better. Maybe it can fill the Outpost-shaped hole in my viewing-guilty-pleasure-center in time.
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Dec 3, 2021 20:15
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bou posted:So, there are yellow mages which supposedly are the healers :check: If you are so inclined, the bonus video for this episode explains all the different wizard colors.
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Dec 3, 2021 20:21
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Is the evil dude Rand and Mat see in their dreams the dark one sort of like how Frodo sees the eye or Mordor? Gotta admit this shows version of gandalf is hotter than real gandalf
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Dec 3, 2021 20:26
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Gotta admit this shows version of gandalf is hotter than real gandalf New Thread title change here?
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Dec 3, 2021 20:27
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Is the evil dude Rand and Mat see in their dreams the dark one sort of like how Frodo sees the eye or Mordor? Gotta admit this shows version of gandalf is hotter than real gandalf filthy lies
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Dec 3, 2021 20:38
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Another thing I had an issue with, regarding the pacing, is Stepin's story and the way the show has told it. Again, not a book reader so the only stuff I know about the characters is from the show itself. I think the whole story really suffered from the fact that we barely knew both him and his AS - she dies in the same episode she has been introduced in, after some dry dialogue. He dies in the episode after that, and we only have a few interactions, mostly with Lan, to sympathize with him. Now, I understand they are supposed to be a medium through which we are introduced to the whole AS/Warder bond; but he really only feels like that. And I understand the "main" characters in this plot are actually Moiraine and Lan. But...we barely know them as well (although I guess we know a bit more about Lan). In any case, this is presented as a major dramatic point and a good quarter of the episode runtime is dedicated to it, so it's definitely important. And yet, for how intese the acting was, I didn't really feel much. For a comparison, take (S1 of GOT) Rory(?) Cassel. A character so minor that I'm not sure I remember his name and that had a few lines of dialogue and a few appearences. But drat if I remember how pissed I was when he gets killed by Jaime Lannister. This is because he felt like a person I got to know in the 6-7 episodes he was a background character in, for how minor he was - we are shown his loyalty, we know his father, he has a few interactions with the kids. EDIT: and I want to repeat that I have mostly enjoyed the show so far...it's a pity that you can see it could be much better with a bit more time to breathe. Although not sure if it would take 25 Seasons to bring the story home at that point... That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 20:59
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Apparently there's a bit in Shadar Logoth where you can see Fain's silhouette and hear him whistle. Has anyone clocked that?
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Dec 3, 2021 21:02
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Rarity posted:Apparently there's a bit in Shadar Logoth where you can see Fain's silhouette and hear him whistle. Has anyone clocked that? I remember the whistle, but I didn't spot the silhouette. After last night I'm prepared to go through the series again on a pure Fainwatch. I'm betting that he's in at least one of the crowd shots in Breen's Spring
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Dec 3, 2021 21:07
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Is the evil dude Rand and Mat see in their dreams the dark one sort of like how Frodo sees the eye or Mordor? WAFO
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Dec 3, 2021 21:25
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buffalo all day posted:another ep with a bunch of new scenes makes me realize I’m much happier with them not quoting book scenes constantly because they got the characters completely right so it’s like im experiencing totally new but also consistent versions of these things I’ve had in my head for decades. Like RJ writing new books or something. As far as directly quoting book scenes go, I really really hope we get Lan's Widow's weeds for a bridal wreath speech, I feel it really sets the tone of that relationship and her overcoming it is one of her huge victories in a series full of wins for her. Doubly so after he killed it this ep.
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Dec 3, 2021 21:40
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That Italian Guy posted:Another thing I had an issue with, regarding the pacing, is Stepin's story and the way the show has told it. Again, not a book reader so the only stuff I know about the characters is from the show itself. You’re missing the point, It’s not about his bond, it’s showing lan and Moiraines bond and giving depth to the concept. And making comparisons to GOT when we haven’t finished the first season is lazy. Episode was paced slow intentionally.
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Dec 3, 2021 21:45
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LionArcher posted:You’re missing the point, That Italian Guy posted:And I understand the "main" characters in this plot are actually Moiraine and Lan. Also I'm complaining that the pacing is waaay too fast, not too slow? And I'm comparing how the death of a minor character in GoT felt much more poignant compared to the death of one that's supposed to be way more important, given a comparable amount of runtime, because of said breakneck pacing.
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Dec 3, 2021 21:54
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The pacing definitely sucks, but if you want to blame anyone blame Amazon, who forced Rafe (the showrunner) to cram everything into 8 episodes. I think he's done really well so far, but there's just no way to condense everything without creating some obvious pacing issues. This episode really highlighted that.
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Dec 3, 2021 21:57
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had to stop 17 minutes in because the whitecloaks looking at each other, nodding, and then marching in to beat the poo poo out of the tuatha'an honest to god gave me an LAPD-related PTSD reaction good ep so far edit: hoping when i unpause egwene will find her connection to saidar and nuke them and then they die, the end, no more whitecloaks in this adaptation! gently caress cops ENEMIES EVERYWHERE fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 22:11
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So far i've seen complaints that this show's pacing is both too fast, and too slow. Television show pacing: A land of contrasts.
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Dec 3, 2021 22:22
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CainFortea posted:So far i've seen complaints that this show's pacing is both too fast, and too slow. the book scenes have been too rushed, and the non-book scenes had been ok before this episode
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Dec 3, 2021 22:27
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Surprised I haven't seen anyone noticing the dodgy peddler from ep1 hanging out in the streets, seemingly following Matt and Rand.
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Dec 3, 2021 22:39
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That Italian Guy posted:?_?
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Dec 3, 2021 23:34
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RC Cola posted:YES! This exactly. I'm watching SG1 right now and you placed what I was thinking! My wife spotted that the director of this episode is the actress who played Teal'c's wife in the early Stargate episodes.....
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Dec 3, 2021 23:39
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agree with general consensus of the thread that the pacing is wonky and the show would benefit a lot from more breathing room, but in general i'm impressed. it felt odd to spend 70% of the last ep on two different funerals, but it gave the world a feeling of gravitas and consequences. the focus on character moments over fidelity to the plot is correct imo, otherwise why would we give a drat about the plot when it kicks off? also impressed that where the writing mis-steps, the actors move in to cover. the dialogues between liandrin and moiraine, and then alanna and moiraine were both clunky and mostly redundant, but the intimacy of it— liandrin's expressions, that little hair touch!!, alanna and moiraine curling up on the bed together and sharing food w/ alanna casually barefoot and dunking on moiraine's motel 6-rear end interior decor— it was wonderful, and did a lot to flesh out the idea that aes sedai really are sisters, with every bit of weight that word carries. (diversity win: sisters can also be 1000% toxic and destroy you) i don't have a logic problem with the whitecloaks being able to do targeted violence against a specific group with relative impunity and if you do and you're american i suggest you take a closer look at local proudboys, antivaxers, and other white supremacists in your area. aes sedai may not like being hunted for sport but 1. aes sedai very famously and deliberately hamstrung their ability to be proactive about self-defense, and 2. no one else in the world of the show so far seems to be interested in shedding a single tear for the poor oppressed wielders of godlike power show pretty good. i'm pleased
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Dec 4, 2021 00:03
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bou posted:Quick thoughts about episode 5: It's telling that the first time we see the Whitecloaks that Valda not dines on Ortolan but also the Ajah of the Aes Sedai he burns to death after mutilating was Yellow. Yeah, he murdered the fantasy equivalent of a trauma surgeon.
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Dec 4, 2021 00:22
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ENEMIES EVERYWHERE posted:had to stop 17 minutes in because the whitecloaks looking at each other, nodding, and then marching in to beat the poo poo out of the tuatha'an honest to god gave me an LAPD-related PTSD reaction Yeah I kind of jumped at that imagery. Sometimes you can tell a movie was made during Vietnam and such just from the visual language. This is "2020" for posterity
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Dec 4, 2021 01:19
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CainFortea posted:It's going to be funny when, yet again, the show immediately answers questions that people are asking from the previous episode, and everyone will go full pikachu face. I did enjoy how it's as though Loial was watching us talking about race yesterday, and stepped into frame today to look the camera full in the face and say RED HAIR IS THE ONLY ETHNO-NATIONAL MARKER IN THIS UNIVERSE
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Dec 4, 2021 01:21
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Data Graham posted:I did enjoy how it's as though Loial was watching us talking about race yesterday, and stepped into frame today to look the camera full in the face and say RED HAIR IS THE ONLY ETHNO-NATIONAL MARKER IN THIS UNIVERSE Now is that true, or is that just an ogier misunderstanding humanity?
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Dec 4, 2021 01:58
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my cat is norris posted:Now is that true, or is that just an ogier misunderstanding humanity? This is the second time it comes up in the show so far. The guy in the cage from the town where Rand and Mat meet Thom was a red haired dude and Thom was like "yeah, he's from a group of people who all have red hair and nobody likes them." LionArcher posted:And making comparisons to GOT when we haven’t finished the first season is lazy. Eeeh, so far I'd say say a certain comparison is valid at this point, in that this show seems to be an unsubtle middle finger to Game of Thrones' ruthless nihilism and misogyny. Also the showrunners seem to give a poo poo and are talented as apposed to the two room temperature IQ trustfund dudebros who plowed GOT into the ground. Show's still young though, so we'll see how it turns out, but I'm digging it so far.
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Dec 4, 2021 02:06
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I really appreciated when Loial popped up, my non-book reading friend immediately asked if that was some kind of strange trolloc as Rand whipped out his sword. Then his continual over-explaining had her laughing, especially when the party was too excited to listen during their reunion with Nyneave and they ignored him while he continued talking in the background. A perfect touch. Yeah, the cut to finding Nyneave was a bit rushed but when Loial went into details about how he found her with the distinct two-rivers braid and so on it was amusing enough to get a pass for my friend and me. Antiquated Pants fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 02:22
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Optimistic so far as someone who's read the books. Liked their introduction of Loial, especially the scene with him continuing to talk in the background while Nynaeve and Rand talk over him. My only complaint about the pacing so far is that it does seem a bit slow when thinking of where the first book ends and where they need to be to get there. They're moving quickly, there's just so much left to cover, and it's a bit disorienting. Really happy with the cast in general and every episode has managed to squeeze in something I'd been really excited for. Logain's procession through the city, and his sighting of Mat and Rand, was well done. Can't wait for next Thursday!
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Dec 4, 2021 02:28
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nine-gear crow posted:This is the second time it comes up in the show so far. The guy in the cage from the town where Rand and Mat meet Thom was a red haired dude and Thom was like "yeah, he's from a group of people who all have red hair and nobody likes them." Yeah no, I was just grumpy because I went on a weird date (outdoors, safe) and saw a comment I disagreed with, triggered me to a lot of the worse reviews that saw the first six episodes and clearly weren't paying much attention. GOT comparisons are not inherently lazy. I like the show partly because it's a counter to the "cool cynicism" of GOT, while so far, characters are acting far more logically than characters in GOT acted (especially by the end). did one character death impact someone more than the other and that's totally fair? Sure, of course! Somebody on twitter commented that as a vet, the way the warders were treated and acted like vets impacted them so much, because that's how they all acted, and the second funeral captured grief in a very real and none wester culture bullshit way. Did the shirt rip teeter on too much? Possibly, but I personal (and I've been close to vets) felt they nailed that feeling. Again, that death wasn't about that character, but the characters that we do care about. Not to mention all the actors knocked it out of the park. I'm talking they should straight up get Emmy nominations at this point.
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Dec 4, 2021 02:48
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Currently watching episode 5... they are spending way too much time on an emo warder we don't know, crying about a side character who had 20 seconds of screen time. *Holy poo poo, out of all the material to cover they are STILL on this warder I don't know nor care about. Hughmoris fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 02:52
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LionArcher posted:Did the shirt rip teeter on too much? Possibly, but I personal (and I've been close to vets) felt they nailed that feeling. lol, shot/chaser post combo. quote:Again, that death wasn't about that character, but the characters that we do care about. Hughmoris posted:Currently watching episode 5... they are spending way too much time on an emo warder we don't know, crying about a side character who had 20 seconds of screen time.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:10
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it is interesting—this version of valda isn’t really an evil fanatic, he’s just a serial killer. fixation on women and fetishistic mutilation and trophy taking and all. and as much as he hates women he, like, folds almost instantly when another man acts powerful around him whether its a superior officer, or just perrin grunting in a threatening manner
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Dec 4, 2021 03:20
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Tortilla Maker posted:I thought the episode was alright. Hope that the 3-hour director's cut comes out soon because I found, amongst other things, Loial's whole "Oh look, I just happened to have found your friend from the Two Rivers inside the tower grounds" really abrupt and jarring." I was super confused by that scene at first and the only way it makes any sense is assuming there was missing dialog like: "Why did you come to Tar Valon?" "I'm looking for my friend (Egwene) from my hometown; she has a big braid because thats the custom and she's probably at the White Tower" While also assuming that having braided hair is almost as unique as having red hair or something so no other village in the country does it.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:22
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Interesting on the divide between "I like the emotional heft the warder mourning plot had" and "how is there supposed to be any emotional heft to this mourner plot". I happened to enjoy it, and the slower pacing in general, as I felt the concept of the story was enough to sell it over the fact that we really have no connection to the particular character at the heart of it. I found Loial's ability to instantly find Nynaeve a bit forced, and I wonder why people keep talking about Moraine's "secrets". Is she really the only sister in the entire tower that is closed mouth (especially considering she's away for years at a time doing her questing thing)? So far there seems very little to suggest why she would be the centre of any sort of intrigue or factionalism; I wonder if (and hope) they'll bring that in later. Spotted Padan Fain's brief laughing in a corner. The show oddly swings between subtle with things like this and bluntness with others. I was pretty worried about how Loial was going come across, especially after seeing that promo shot, but I think he's quite solid. Giving Liandrin even a hint of a background that made her less of a two-dimensional character was welcome, and it really didn't take anything more than a couple of indirect lines. Oh, and Rand's "I think I've seen that mountain before" was such a strange line the way it was phrased, I laughed when I heard it. Xotl fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 03:22
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Just finished episode 5. For me, it has been the weakest episode by far. They spent way too much time on the sad warder, whom I still can't even name. They've called out how special the bond is between warder and aes sedai multiple times before, no need to keep hammering it.Mover posted:it is interesting—this version of valda isn’t really an evil fanatic, he’s just a serial killer. fixation on women and fetishistic mutilation and trophy taking and all. Yeah, this felt weak as well. The dude apparently hunts down magic users, and Perrin breaking free and stumbling at him like a zombie somehow freezes him with fear.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:24
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Mover posted:it is interesting—this version of valda isn’t really an evil fanatic, he’s just a serial killer. fixation on women and fetishistic mutilation and trophy taking and all. I just took that to mean that Valda's danger is always couched in something else. He real tough to women who are tied up and handless. He's a blade master, but he only really fights in ritual combat. He doesn't really face shadowspawn. So seeing what he thinks is a creature of shadow suddenly in his tent shocks him enough for Egwene to get the drop on him. Also he had already written her off as a threat, since she took her shot and missed it. Well, "missed it".
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Dec 4, 2021 03:24
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Xotl posted:Interesting on the divide between "I like the emotional heft the warder mourning plot had" and "how is there supposed to be any emotional heft to this mourner plot". I happened to enjoy it, and the slower pacing in general, as I felt the concept of the story was enough to sell it over the fact that we really have no connection to the particular character at the heart of it. Part of the reason people are having an issue with it is that they've used large chunks of two episodes now on a character who very likely is never going to appear again, even in flashbacks. And while it was fine in 4, where it was mixed into the larger plot, here it was entirely focused on him with the thrust seeming to have been about the dangers of a Warder's Aes Sedai dying. Which is important, but is it so important to use THAT much time on a throwaway character when huge amounts of character and worldbuilding that will be onscreen important going forward is being compressed and skipped? Hell, just as one example people have pointed out how utterly jarring the scene break between Nynaeve being told where the garden is and Loial suddenly showing up back at the inn with her in tow is. They couldn't have used a single minute of the time spent on Stepin to actually bridge that gap competently?
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Dec 4, 2021 03:42
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Mover posted:it is interesting—this version of valda isn’t really an evil fanatic, he’s just a serial killer. fixation on women and fetishistic mutilation and trophy taking and all. Valda definitely had a fixation on women and fetishistic mutilation in the books.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:44
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Lord Koth posted:Part of the reason people are having an issue with it is that they've used large chunks of two episodes now on a character who very likely is never going to appear again, even in flashbacks. And while it was fine in 4, where it was mixed into the larger plot, here it was entirely focused on him with the thrust seeming to have been about the dangers of a Warder's Aes Sedai dying. Which is important, but is it so important to use THAT much time on a throwaway character when huge amounts of character and worldbuilding that will be onscreen important going forward is being compressed and skipped? Hell, just as one example people have pointed out how utterly jarring the scene break between Nynaeve being told where the garden is and Loial suddenly showing up back at the inn with her in tow is. They couldn't have used a single minute of the time spent on Stepin to actually bridge that gap competently? I get that; I've already complained about them rushing some bits so I'm generally on the same page as you, I think. But at the same time I thought it was an interesting episode and I found the mourning interesting and believable. I suppose the lesson here is that even if a plotline works (if you think it did) it can come at a price.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:45
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CainsDescendant posted:I can really feel Amazon notes to the effect of "don't trust the audience, they're a bunch of loving morons. Explain everything explicitly at least once, natural dialogue be damned" It would make for a better show, for me, if there was less explicit explanation and more subtext, but even people in this thread are missing stuff, soooo Amazon ain’t wrong. Other than not giving the show a couple extra episodes to breath.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:17
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Jordan7hm posted:It would make for a better show, for me, if there was less explicit explanation and more subtext, but even people in this thread are missing stuff, soooo I agree, but shows that trust the audience to pick up on subtext and inference Do Not Do Well. Too many viewers are either distracted or just aren't great at retaining details. I'm really hoping the success the show is getting so far makes the suits back off a bit. At this point, we don't even really need more episodes; an extra ten-fifteen minutes per ep would go a long way towards evening out my gripes. I really love the show so far, I just want more of it
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Dec 4, 2021 04:23
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