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yeah, any real issues i have seem like things that later seasons can fix now that it seems to be a success. even then any problems on my end are like. things i already expected from season 1. so hey. i'm optimistic, especially when even people like brandon sanderson said episode 6 was their favorite of the 6 that have been aired early so far and 7+8 promise to pop off.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:26
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CainsDescendant posted:I agree, but shows that trust the audience to pick up on subtext and inference Do Not Do Well. Too many viewers are either distracted or just aren't great at retaining details. I'm really hoping the success the show is getting so far makes the suits back off a bit. At this point, we don't even really need more episodes; an extra ten-fifteen minutes per ep would go a long way towards evening out my gripes. From what I’m seeing, it’s continuing to do very well. There was a thread on Twitter last night from a guy in India saying that it’s becoming a huge hit over there. Not just with the adults, but with teens too. That’s a huge country Amazon wants more penetration in, and they’re paying attention. A new character that was introduced last night was trending number eight globally on Twitter as well. I think everybody has gripes and nitpicks about the show in general. But, just like fans of the book, everyone also wants this to succeed and see it through. Like, I was worried Hawkeye would drown out the conversation on Twitter, but it’s really not.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:27
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there's still people mad that tom bombadil wasn't in the lord of the rings movies so honestly after a point you just gotta move onwards and upwards
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Dec 4, 2021 04:29
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Jordan7hm posted:Amazon ain’t wrong. Other than not giving the show a couple extra episodes to breath. I have 0 idea how tv production and editing and costs and all that stuff work so this is probably a dumb thing, but it seems insane to me to have to make editing cuts that clearly hurt/confuse the story when your show is solely appearing on a streaming service you entirely control. Ain’t no commercials or programming blocks, if you shoot a dang scene why the heck aren’t you using it? (I assume it’s the extra budget of actually making a filmed scene the same quality as the rest of the show, whatever that entails, so I blame Bezos’s tight purse strings)
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Dec 4, 2021 04:30
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Doing a quick run through the episode it looks like 14 minutes either had Stepin in the scene or being discussed. That is a lot for a one hour episode, but it was dense with worldbuilding and character perspectives,. That included the two parallel and contrasting funerals to bookend the episode, and the ring ritual in between, the Warders' perspective through Alanna's Warders and Lan, the Aes Sedai perspective through Alanna and Moiraine, the outsider's perspective through Nynaeve, and for that matter the whole development of religion/demonology through the Forsaken conversation. More importantly, very little of that time was about Stepin personally. It was clearly presented as a introduction what the Aes Sedai/Warder bond means both culturally and magically. Mentioned on its own, it would be easy to take it as some sort of bodyguard deal with little magical perks; this episode put a lot of weight into it. It was also development time for all the characters shown with them, how they react to a man that's been so spiritually hollowed out by loss both to his face and behind his back. So yeah, the plotline came at a price to the story, but I don't feel it was wasted. "Oh hey I found your friend in the Tower" was rushed but the meeting probably wouldn't have told us anything Loial didn't explain in his rambling. Unrelated, thought of this with Loial correcting "ogre" to "Ogier." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU_inaBxfqY
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Dec 4, 2021 04:32
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CainFortea posted:The first time I lost one of my buddies from bootcamp, a man I hadn't seen in 4 years, I cried so hard I puked. I lost three friends in a helicopter crash. We were good friends, but I actually hadn't seen them in years since I PCS'd. It hit me like a loving sledgehammer. Having one person allowed to grieve for everyone hit pretty hard, too, since I never felt like I was allowed to really grieve. I found the portrayal of Stepin's grief extremely realistic. If people think all grief and suicidal ideation is performative and outwardly signaled, I don't know what to tell them.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:35
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Pleads posted:I have 0 idea how tv production and editing and costs and all that stuff work so this is probably a dumb thing, but it seems insane to me to have to make editing cuts that clearly hurt/confuse the story when your show is solely appearing on a streaming service you entirely control. Ain’t no commercials or programming blocks, if you shoot a dang scene why the heck aren’t you using it? The scenes don't always actually get shot. And even if shot, it still costs to put it through post and edit it. As to the hour length, I have no idea. They should let each episode be as long as it needs to be. I mean, in general you always want to have some kind of limit so that you don't basically feature creep. But yea, if the show would really be improved by extending it 2 more minutes, then let it go.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:35
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Mr Beens posted:Surprised I haven't seen anyone noticing the dodgy peddler from ep1 hanging out in the streets, seemingly following Matt and Rand.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:36
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Yeah I think the reason for cuts isn't budget many times, because they clearly filmed a lot more, it's worries that you haven't built up enough viewership and trust that people will stick through hour+ episodes. I have no doubt they have statistics about that that make it look like a really big gamble to risk longer episodes on a show that hadn't ever been tested yet from a property most viewers won't know. Hopefully with the success of this season, that changes and Rafe and co get more money and more control about when to go over and what gets axed.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:38
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nine-gear crow posted:This is the second time it comes up in the show so far. The guy in the cage from the town where Rand and Mat meet Thom was a red haired dude and Thom was like "yeah, he's from a group of people who all have red hair and nobody likes them." In that exact same town, though, Rand isn't met with hostility and racism. This kinda suggests "not all red heads" as Loial (mistakenly, I think) believes. Edit: By this I mean that sure, all Aiel might be red heads, but not all red heads are Aiel. my cat is norris fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 04:47
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Qmass posted:especially when they had his laugh audible over the crowd and from a camera up in a window Also because his laugh sort of blends in with the drumbeats, which seemed really weird so I was like "wait what was going on with that shot?" and I had to roll it back a couple of times and finally I saw him. That's actually something I've noticed a lot ever since HDTV became a thing: you can have big crowds of people in a shot, and it'll still have someone in the middle somewhere that it's framing and you're supposed to pay attention to, maybe even speaking dialogue, and it can sometimes be a trick to try to find out where the hell they are or who the hell you're supposed to be looking at in the few seconds you get. Every shot is meaningful (it'd better be, for what it costs to create and set up with all the sets and CGI and actors and everything), and if a shot goes by without you being sure why they put it in the show, you might want to ask yourself if you missed something important. In this case I was staring at the walking ladies the first couple of times to see whether they were anyone I was supposed to recognize, but I kept seeing this little weird shape ducking out of frame up at the top left. Finally I was like *dicaprio point*
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Dec 4, 2021 04:49
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The Netflix seasons of Lucifer varied significantly in episode length. Some were the typical 45ish minutes of a network TV episode, and some were upwards of an hour. It felt like the production crew was allowed to tell the story they wanted rather than having to work within a tight time constraint. Edit: correct numbers after checking IMDB Grundulum fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 04:49
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This show absolutely owns. I don't get the poor critical reception, what the hell??
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Dec 4, 2021 05:35
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Count me as one who is in favor of the funeral stuff. A memorable quality of the books was their willingness to focus on minor characters as a way of providing many different perspectives on things important to the main characters and main story. I also like the tone achieved by frequently having characters who, y'know, care about each other.
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Dec 4, 2021 05:37
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the last signal... posted:This show absolutely owns. I don't get the poor critical reception, what the hell?? The first episode was the weakest and tv critics are lazy snobs.
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Dec 4, 2021 05:44
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my cat is norris posted:In that exact same town, though, Rand isn't met with hostility and racism. This kinda suggests "not all red heads" as Loial (mistakenly, I think) believes. I think this line stands out as a side effect of the productions diversity. Rand would stand out more if everyone else was the pasty yt I presume Jordan wrote them to be.
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Dec 4, 2021 05:48
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the last signal... posted:This show absolutely owns. I don't get the poor critical reception, what the hell?? Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:The first episode was the weakest and tv critics are lazy snobs. Also the internet pop culture bellweather these days is driven by a cabal of chuds with oxygen-consuming YouTube channels who tell their tinybrained followers what to like and what to hate, and they're not fond of, in descending order 1) women, 2) people of colour, 3) women and/or people of colour who do things and speak a lot. And guess what this show has in abundance? 
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Dec 4, 2021 06:00
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Not a book reader, but I thought the heavy focus on the warder/aes sedai bond in ep 5 was foreshadowing. WILD SPECUALATION:Morraine will die. She said there was a way to give up the warder bond, so she will probably die and let Lan free. Then Lan will become Nynaeve's warder since doomed warder here in this ep seems to see a growing relationship between Lan and Nynaeve even if they won't acknowledge it yet (and I don't know that I see it either.)
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Dec 4, 2021 06:00
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Ehhh, it's more that some of the secondary traits really aren't there. Like, even aside from the red hair Rand in the books would absolutely stick out because he is incredibly tall at 6'6", while even Perrin is only ~6'1-2" and Aiel being quite tall is fairly common in general. They're also both a stark red (compared to reddish gold and the like, which do exist elsewhere), and generally pale, which is fairly distinctive from "just" being redheads. The books themselves are very multicultural, and it's not remotely a "everyone's white" kind of setting.
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Dec 4, 2021 06:03
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LionArcher posted:Somebody on twitter commented that as a vet, the way the warders were treated and acted like vets impacted them so much, because that's how they all acted, and the second funeral captured grief in a very real and none wester culture bullshit way. Did the shirt rip teeter on too much? Possibly, but I personal (and I've been close to vets) felt they nailed that feeling. Again, that death wasn't about that character, but the characters that we do care about. This is good to hear because it wouldn't surprise me if it was intentional. Both for the authenticity and to honor the deceased author of the series. Jordan was a Vietnam vet and it shows up in how he writes some things. So having this entirely unique to TV scene feel honest to vets makes it a better scene to me (and I already enjoyed it.)
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Dec 4, 2021 06:13
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Mage_Boy posted:This is good to hear because it wouldn't surprise me if it was intentional. Both for the authenticity and to honor the deceased author of the series. Jordan was a Vietnam vet and it shows up in how he writes some things. So having this entirely unique to TV scene feel honest to vets makes it a better scene to me (and I already enjoyed it.) I watched the Inside the Episode video that came along with Episode 5 and they talked about how the writers for it researched various funeral traditions from around the world and there's one that revolves around someone being a "lead mourner", usually the closest person to the deceased. Everyone else is supposed to keep it together and rely on the funeral leader to basically express their grief for them by going as ham as they feel like in the moment in this massive bout of catharsis. It was meant to contrast with how Lan had been portrayed up to his point as basically so stoic he's practically mute, so it IS incredibly jarring to see him wailing and hitting himself raw red and ripping his shirt open like that.
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Dec 4, 2021 06:19
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my cat is norris posted:In that exact same town, though, Rand isn't met with hostility and racism. This kinda suggests "not all red heads" as Loial (mistakenly, I think) believes. I mean sure, but Rand isn't dressed like an Aiel. He looks like a tall sheepherder, not a dangerous desert ninja.
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Dec 4, 2021 06:22
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nine-gear crow posted:I watched the Inside the Episode video that came along with Episode 5 and they talked about how the writers for it researched various funeral traditions from around the world and there's one that revolves around someone being a "lead mourner", usually the closest person to the deceased. Everyone else is supposed to keep it together and rely on the funeral leader to basically express their grief for them by going as ham as they feel like in the moment in this massive bout of catharsis. It was meant to contrast with how Lan had been portrayed up to his point as basically so stoic he's practically mute, so it IS incredibly jarring to see him wailing and hitting himself raw red and ripping his shirt open like that. Yea. I don't know if I said it in this thread or not, but Lan fully respecting a death rite is 100% Lan. Even if it involved doing Allamaraine.
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Dec 4, 2021 06:56
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Rand’s ethnicity is kinda a big spoiler
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Dec 4, 2021 07:21
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ChubbyChecker posted:the book scenes have been too rushed, and the non-book scenes had been ok before this episode They could've chucked the whole warder subplot and focused more on loial, nyaneve or something else from the books IMO.
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Dec 4, 2021 07:36
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Wailing and rending garments in grief is awesome, by the way.
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Dec 4, 2021 07:37
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navyjack posted:Rand’s ethnicity is kinda a big spoiler Or it’s a red herring. As far as I know, only one of the Two Rivers people can be the Dragon Reborn. But the show is going almost out of its way to offer suggestions that it could be any of them (edit: including Nynaeve, who didn’t even register on Moiraine’s radar when she visited Emond’s Field). Some of those will eventually turn out to be prophetic, while the rest will, I guess, end up either meaningless coincidence or hints towards other story arcs.
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Dec 4, 2021 07:40
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I really dug Stepin and I was sad to watch his inevitable death
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Dec 4, 2021 07:43
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Rarity posted:I really dug Stepin and I was sad to watch his inevitable death Same. Also, the impact of Karene and Stepin's story on Moiraine and especially Lan is laying important groundwork for later events, I'm sure. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 07:48
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I get that it's not just grief, but magical grief, but you'll also magically feel better by getting under someone else so suck it up!
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Dec 4, 2021 07:51
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this episode was terrible imo. the whitecloaks are cartoonish in a way that's tonally out of whack with the rest of the show – there's something bizarre about saturday morning-level characterisation and dialogue, intercut with egwene being stripped and full-frame shots of perrin getting carved up. like a third of the runtime was characters in tar valon sharing insanely boring (and on-the-nose!) memories, or explaining basic stuff that the other person would already know. not at all hopeful for the tower politics if this episode is anything to go by. i don't get why they dedicated so much time to the warders being epic bourbon bastards instead of, say, making the wolf stuff not come out of nowhere. loial works okay at least – he looks huge!
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Dec 4, 2021 08:19
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exmarx posted:this episode was terrible imo. the whitecloaks are cartoonish in a way that's tonally out of whack with the rest of the show – there's something bizarre about saturday morning-level characterisation and dialogue, intercut with egwene being stripped and full-frame shots of perrin getting carved up. the wolves have been following perrin around and howling for I think three episodes now. they were howling throughout much of the interrogation. i do agree valda is a little ridiculous. he reminds me of Joe arpaio. the whitecloaks beating up the tinkers made me sick
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Dec 4, 2021 08:51
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exmarx posted:this episode was terrible imo. the whitecloaks are cartoonish in a way that's tonally out of whack with the rest of the [franchise] Welcome to the Wheel of Time fandom!
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Dec 4, 2021 09:05
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I guess I'm dead inside because I found the funeral wailing and chest beating lame. Otherwise the episode was alright. White cloaks are lame and horrible human beings, not to mention horribly ostentatious in the book, so the show version seems fine to me. There are lots of extremist factions in the WOT world.
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Dec 4, 2021 09:37
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CainsDescendant posted:I agree, but shows that trust the audience to pick up on subtext and inference Do Not Do Well. Too many viewers are either distracted or just aren't great at retaining details. On a positive note, on top of the actors' diversity, I'm really enjoying the variety in costumes and architecture too. While some of the more traditional "western fantasy" elements feel a bit "high level larp" (looking at you, Stepins's wowish axes), it's refreshing to see unusual elements, especially Arab and Arabic Spain influences in both the buildings and the armors. And of course we have Asian stile weaponry as well.
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Dec 4, 2021 10:57
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Hamelekim posted:I guess I'm dead inside because I found the funeral wailing and chest beating lame. i feel like that people are trolling me when they praise that scene. it's the most cheesiest scene i remember ever seeing on tv
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Dec 4, 2021 11:03
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ChubbyChecker posted:i feel like that people are trolling me when they praise that scene. it's the most cheesiest scene i remember ever seeing on tv That's why it's good.
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Dec 4, 2021 11:05
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That Italian Guy posted:On a positive note, on top of the actors' diversity, I'm really enjoying the variety in costumes and architecture too. While some of the more traditional "western fantasy" elements feel a bit "high level larp" (looking at you, Stepins's wowish axes), it's refreshing to see unusual elements, especially Arab and Arabic Spain influences in both the buildings and the armors. And of course we have Asian stile weaponry as well. Most of our cast has lived on the road for weeks or even years by now and all their clothes are always perfectly clean and starched; there are a few exceptions, like Mat, but that's mostly for story reasons, same as his makeup. I guess magic may be involved for some of them This is not meant to be "everything should be gritty and realistic", but seeing all our cast being spick and span in, IE: the funeral scene, after they fought against an entire army (and quite a few of them where wounded too!) and buried their comrades really takes me out of the moment. Tbf, it's something most productions are guilty of this, but at the same time it feels like something that should be (relatively) easy to do - especially cause I'm sure the actors themselves got dirt on their clothes, and there have to be multiple copies of the same garment for them to always be perfect. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 11:27
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Aes Sedai specifically are known for always looking pristine and composed no matter what the situation is, they don't even sweat when the weather's hot. Fair point for the rest though, Rand especially always looks photoshoot ready (though I did like that his hair grew out to mark the month of time)
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Dec 4, 2021 12:39
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Rarity posted:Aes Sedai specifically are known for always looking pristine and composed no matter what the situation is, they don't even sweat when the weather's hot. Fair point for the rest though, Rand especially always looks photoshoot ready (though I did like that his hair grew out to mark the month of time)
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Dec 4, 2021 12:45
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