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buffalo all day posted:they watched him rolled through the streets in a cage while people threw radishes at him Still seems odd to me that Aes Sedai are these hugely powerful and respected/feared people but there they are getting hit by thrown vegetables, in their own city of all places. FLIPADELPHIA posted:I will never understand how some people are so bad at watching television. Lots of things in this series don't make much sense when you think about them for a second, but it's not the end of the world, it's just a show. tsob posted:She's also a young woman of an age to be learning to channel who is obviously on her way to Tar Valon, since she started far away from there and ended up just outside the city on a parallel course to him. She then ran when he asked for her, which basically confirms that she's doing something wrong to him. And the only thing a young woman just outside Tar Valon could be doing wrong is channeling related.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:21
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eke out posted:the "how is the actor for loial so bad" is the actual worst take so far  Say what you will about the costume, but the actor is doing Loial justice
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Dec 5, 2021 19:23
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El Grillo posted:Haha, oh right gotcha. 🤦♂️ every question you asked or gripe you expressed was directly answered in the television program itself
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Dec 5, 2021 19:31
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if i were her i would simply destroy the radish-thrower with my powerful magicks
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Dec 5, 2021 19:33
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eke out posted:if i were her i would simply destroy the radish-thrower with my powerful magicks She was definitely at risk of being decapitated by an aggressively flung carrot
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Dec 5, 2021 19:34
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resting mitch face posted:I just got done with the series Vikings last week, so I was super excited to see the guy who played King Harald in this. I really like that guy. Awww. Damnit. Not a spoiler since it's in the x-ray, which makes it cannon for the show: The last Dragon did manage to beat the Dark one, but the dark one got one last hit in before defeat, by permanently tainting the one power for men to drive all male channelers insane. The last Dragon succumbed to the madness and ended up murdering his entire family. His insanity was temporarily cured just long enough for him to find out what he had done, and in his grief he drew in so much of the one power that he exploded like a nuclear bomb and the ground beneath his feat turned into a massive volcano. All of the thousands of other male channelers similarly went crazy and caused apocalyptic levels of destruction. Think hundreds of millions of years worth of tectonic plate shifting happening over only 100 years and humanity driven to the brink of extinction. This was the "Breaking of the World" and it ended when the last of the Male Aes Sedai were dead or gentled. This is the legacy of the Chosen One in this world, and it's the expected fate awaiting their reincarnation this time around. The Dragon has the entire fate of the world on their shoulders, and even if they defeat the dark one again, their expected reward for victory is.... yikes. And the Chosen one in this case knows all of this ahead of time. Kind of similar to the story of Jesus, in that Jesus had the foreknowledge that the reward for carrying out God's plan would be getting tortured and ultimately executed by crucifixion.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:35
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El Grillo posted:
It's equally ok to make fun of the dumbest opinions.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:37
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LionArcher posted:On the budget being big but it looking not “good enough” to some posters in here. What kind of psycho appreviates "per minute" as "p/min"
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Dec 5, 2021 19:40
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Someone dealing with Twitter character limits I assume
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Dec 5, 2021 19:41
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LionArcher posted:On the budget being big but it looking not “good enough” to some posters in here. What the hell was Friends spending money on? Was it just the cast salary? Edit: Gwaihir posted:Someone dealing with Twitter character limits I assume That makes no sense, because "/" means "per". you're adding characters to repeat "per". CainFortea fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 19:41
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Gwaihir posted:Someone dealing with Twitter character limits I assume they needed to put extra characters in because "$170k/min" was too short
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Dec 5, 2021 19:42
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CainFortea posted:What the hell was Friends spending money on? Was it just the cast salary? Google says each actor/actress was paid a million dollars per episode, with 18 episodes in the season. Which is 108 million dollars, just on the salary for the main actors and actresses. On a reported budget of 180 million for the season, or 10 million per episode from what I can see. Meaning more than half the budget of any given episode was spent just on the main actors/actresses alone. So yeah, basically. I'd assume filming scenes in New York and poo poo cost a pretty penny too, but the majority went on the cast at the very least.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:49
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CainFortea posted:What the hell was Friends spending money on? Was it just the cast salary? In any case, regarding the Twitter post, I'm not sure it's a viable argument to say 'this show looks worse than other shows because it's being made on the cheap'. At least, not when the show is being made by Amazon and they're trying to push it as the next event series like GoT. El Grillo fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 19:50
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Loial was the best part of the episode, the depressed warder storyline was the real low, it was so pointless they should have cut that and spread out the pacing of previous episodes better.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:52
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CainFortea posted:What the hell was Friends spending money on? Was it just the cast salary? Central Perk was entirely CG, you didn't notice? Also, Loial is a big perfect boi and we love him.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:53
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Umbra Dubium posted:Central Perk was entirely CG, you didn't notice? I didn't watch Friends.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:54
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All those action sequences with Chandler really wiped out the budget
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Dec 5, 2021 19:55
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El Grillo posted:I would've thought all of those figures reflect cast salaries rather than the production cost. The Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings ones work out to be the overall budget, and not just the cast salaries; at least, based on the public information about budgets. Which is 80 million for Wheel of Time. So 80 million divided by 8 episodes of roughly 60 minutes each (so 480 minutes) works out to just about 170,000. Where Lord of the Rings, which that person is presumably assuming has a similar runtime and episode order, even though I can't see any confirmation of such online, works out as 465 million divided by 480 to roughly 968,000. The Friends one is odd though, because I'm seeing it as having 18 episodes, which are presumably about 22 minutes each (or 396 minutes total); which would work out to about 454,000 per episode and not 750,000. There's probably something in that one I'm missing though. I didn't bother with the rest. Also, why wouldn't budget affect how it looks just because Amazon are the ones making it? Does it being Amazon magically make things cheaper for them to do? Do they get hand outs in the industry because Jeff Bezos is just such a swell guy, or something? tsob fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 20:00
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The Game of Thrones budget must've been astronomical because that show had quite a few beautiful and/or spectacular scenes.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:24
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anatomi posted:The Game of Thrones budget must've been astronomical because that show had quite a few beautiful and/or spectacular scenes. The tweeter later posted it averaging 220k/minute
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Dec 5, 2021 20:24
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the tower interiors do feel tiny and sparse. the winespring Inn felt like it was bigger than any room inside the tower. the landscape shots are outrageously good but I haven't seen any amazing interior sets yet. I would imagine covid is massively inflating costs
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Dec 5, 2021 20:31
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eke out posted:if i were her i would simply destroy the radish-thrower with my powerful magicks
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Dec 5, 2021 20:33
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To be fair, though, any show's first season is going to be expensive when you consider set building and setting up all your infrastructure. Especially on a show like WoT with so many varied and expensive locations and creatures. The more fair comparison would be to Game of Throne's first season. Which seems to have been $70m or so for 600 minutes. Which puts it at around $167k/minute....which is pretty much where WoT is at $170k/min.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:36
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That Italian Guy posted:Protection from veggies is a lvl9 cantrip. gently caress that, just multiclass into Monk and get Deflect Projectile
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Dec 5, 2021 20:40
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hopefully with the tower, it's one of those things where past sets can be rebuilt across seasons for a much lower price and they can take advantage of previous hard work to make it feel progressively bigger i can understand why there's not a ton around this season, as a huge portion of the screen time so far has been beautiful exterior shots and that that's expensive as hell too in the extras they talk about how the first shot of this ep it wasn't supposed to be snowing but gently caress it, gotta shoot (and it turned out better than expected as a result, but was miserable) eke out fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 20:41
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:the tower interiors do feel tiny and sparse. the winespring Inn felt like it was bigger than any room inside the tower. the landscape shots are outrageously good but I haven't seen any amazing interior sets yet. I would imagine covid is massively inflating costs The only ones we've seen so far are Warder quarters, which are for soldiers, and so would be smaller and simpler by nature, and Moiraine's quarters, which are barren because she is barely there. That's it in live action at least, since the bonus animations show the library, central chamber and Amyrlin Seat's quarters, which are all much larger and more impressive in animation at least. Whether the live action versions will be is a different thing. We'll see next episode though, since the Amyrlin Seat will presumably feature, given Alanna and Moiraine's talk, at the very least.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:43
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tsob posted:The Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings ones work out to be the overall budget, and not just the cast salaries; at least, based on the public information about budgets. Which is 80 million for Wheel of Time. So 80 million divided by 8 episodes of roughly 60 minutes each (so 480 minutes) works out to just about 170,000. Where Lord of the Rings, which that person is presumably assuming has a similar runtime and episode order, even though I can't see any confirmation of such online, works out as 465 million divided by 480 to roughly 968,000. The Friends one is odd though, because I'm seeing it as having 18 episodes, which are presumably about 22 minutes each (or 396 minutes total); which would work out to about 454,000 per episode and not 750,000. There's probably something in that one I'm missing though. I didn't bother with the rest. Regarding your question; no. Budget can affect how good the production quality is, that was the point of the Twitter post I assume, and was certainly my point. The relevance of the show being made by Amazon is that they have the resources to put into it, if they choose to do so. Given what little is known about the company's ambitions for the show, if they are not putting enough funding into it to make it look up to scratch compared to other modern series, then that is a bad decision IMO. In actual fact however, I suspect that it's not low budget which has resulted in the production quality issues. I don't think budget can really explain why, for example, Rand's cloak appears to be spotlessly clean and brand new in his first scene of this episode, even though he has been sleeping rough and traveling for a month. Or why the shot of him walking up the hill cuts immediately to a reverse shot where he's on a hill that looks totally different. Then again, it also doesn't make sense how they have enough money to pay for a night in an inn that they say costs as much as staying at the Winespring for a month. Anyway, I'm hopeful that their team will be a bit more bedded-in for the next season so that at least the kind of basic production quality stuff gets fixed. It's a bit jarring. They have a lot of seasons so plenty of room to improve. Edit: I think the showrunner doesn't have any experience running a show of his own before right? And he definitely has no experience working on a huge sprawling effects-heavy thing like this. I suspect that is behind some of these issues, because one would imagine that there's a huge difference in how much you get out of a limited budget, and it probably takes a lot of experience to learn how you can get the most bang for your buck in every aspect of a production. This is another potential reason to have hope that things will improve in future seasons. El Grillo fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 20:50
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Johnny Joestar posted:the joker reborn Damnit DC, stop pushing The Batman Who Laughs, you already way overplayed him.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:52
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One thing I do like is how they're doing Perrin and the wolves. I think they're taking a more subtle approach to the idea than the books, which is good as a more faithful adaptation of the book stuff could have come across as quite silly I think. Not too convinced by Perrin's actor though. Pyromancer posted:Loial was the best part of the episode, the depressed warder storyline was the real low, it was so pointless they should have cut that and spread out the pacing of previous episodes better. I agree that it would have been better not to add it at all, and instead allow more time for the actual main storyline and characters, given how they have rushed through things so fast. El Grillo fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 21:09
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El Grillo posted:Edit: I think the showrunner doesn't have any experience running a show of his own before right? And he definitely has no experience working on a huge sprawling effects-heavy thing like this. Judkins? I dunno about showrunner but he's got a bunch of producer credits:  Haven't seen any of those other shows, not sure how they looked. e: Honestly, the effects work has not bothered me. Does it look cheap? hosed if I know, I think my baseline was set by Buffy and Farscape ~20 years ago and hasn't shifted since. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 21:10
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El Grillo posted:In actual fact however, I suspect that it's not low budget which has resulted in the production quality issues. I don't think budget can really explain why, for example, Rand's cloak appears to be spotlessly clean and brand new in his first scene of this episode, even though he has been sleeping rough and traveling for a month. Or why the shot of him walking up the hill cuts immediately to a reverse shot where he's on a hill that looks totally different. I think you're just going to have to get used to the idea that this is a universe where hygiene and cleanliness are given some weight, even if it's going to be off-screen, and so the cast are mostly going to be clean and well kept; even when travelling. It doesn't make sense perhaps, but I don't think the production cares about that. And honestly, I can't say as I do either. I don't care about the hill being different between shots either honestly, and didn't even really notice personally. The cast are all still dirty and disheveled looking the morning after the attack on Emond's field, and the bodies that are being buried at the start of this episode are dirty and bloodied too. That's where it's more important really, rather than when people have been travelling. El Grillo posted:Then again, it also doesn't make sense how they have enough money to pay for a night in an inn that they say costs as much as staying at the Winespring for a month. We've already seen Rand and Matt do odd jobs at various places for lodgings, so there's really no reason to assume they wouldn't do odd jobs for lodgings along the way if they're part of a caravan of people. Which could be used to garner money for extra work too. The books do have a definitive explanation, but the show lays enough groundwork that it's still reasonable in my opinion. The Winespring Inn is a local tavern at a little village in the middle of nowhere; the line is less "this is so expensive" and more "it's so expensive compared to what we're used to thinking of the cost of thing as". El Grillo posted:Anyway, I'm hopeful that their team will be a bit more bedded-in for the next season so that at least the kind of basic production quality stuff gets fixed. It's a bit jarring. They have a lot of seasons so plenty of room to improve. A lot of the money and time spent on the production of this season seems to have gone into production for things that'll still be paying off several season down the line, like research on various cultures and fashions to inform people and places that won't be around much, if at all, for several seasons. So yeah, it does look like it's a thing that'll bed in and pay off over time. tsob fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 21:17
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Judkins? I dunno about showrunner but he's got a bunch of producer credits: I'm no industry insider so am just tea leaf reading obviously. The effects have been pretty decent for the most part IMO, it's other aspects of the production that are oddly unpolished. The shots of Tar Valon this past episode were pretty great, though it would've been nice to see them focusing on some of the more weird/uncanny architecture per the descriptions in the book. tsob posted:We've already seen Rand and Matt do odd jobs at various places for lodgings, so there's really no reason to assume they wouldn't do odd jobs for lodgings along the way if they're part of a caravan of people. Which could be used to garner money for extra work too. The books do have a definitive explanation, but the show lays enough groundwork that it's still reasonable in my opinion. The Winespring Inn is a local tavern at a little village in the middle of nowhere; the line is less "this is so expensive" and more "it's so expensive compared to what we're used to thinking of the cost of thing as". In the show it makes no sense because if they were making enough money that they can buy street food on a whim and pay for room at an inn, why do they say they've been sleeping rough for a month? Not a big issue, just another little thing that didn't quite add up or at least wasn't explained in any way. El Grillo fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 21:32
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Rand and Mat have horses. Rand and Mat now have no horses. "How in the world could they afford a night at the inn?"
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Dec 5, 2021 21:37
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Also no matter how much money was spent, Rafe stated that Covid hit them hard on their post production end so I wouldn't be surprised for season 2 on to look better no matter if they get a budget increase or not.
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Dec 5, 2021 21:37
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I have a passing familiarity with the books and just watched the first episode last night. Haven't watched all the other episodes yet and have a spoilery question. Does Loial show up ? I'm curious if they are going the cgi route with him or more practical effects. Saw the Mydraal and it looked like practical effects, but it was wearing a hood so I don't know what it looked like in motion. The Trollocs looked pretty, obvious cgi when they were running on all 4.
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Dec 5, 2021 21:38
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I have a passing familiarity with the books and just watched the first episode last night. Haven't watched all the other episodes yet and have a spoilery question. Does Loial show up ? I'm curious if they are going the cgi route with him or more practical effects. Saw the Mydraal and it looked like practical effects, but it was wearing a hood so I don't know what it looked like in motion. The Trollocs looked pretty, obvious cgi when they were running on all 4. The answer to your question is: yes, and practical effects.
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Dec 5, 2021 21:40
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I have a passing familiarity with the books and just watched the first episode last night. Haven't watched all the other episodes yet and have a spoilery question. Does Loial show up ? I'm curious if they are going the cgi route with him or more practical effects. Saw the Mydraal and it looked like practical effects, but it was wearing a hood so I don't know what it looked like in motion. The Trollocs looked pretty, obvious cgi when they were running on all 4. Ask it in the God drat spoiler thread, maybe?
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Dec 5, 2021 21:40
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I have a passing familiarity with the books and just watched the first episode last night. Haven't watched all the other episodes yet and have a spoilery question. Does Loial show up ? I'm curious if they are going the cgi route with him or more practical effects. Saw the Mydraal and it looked like practical effects, but it was wearing a hood so I don't know what it looked like in motion. The Trollocs looked pretty, obvious cgi when they were running on all 4. I'll spoil this anyway even though it's been discussed spoiler free many times. Yes, he does. It's all practical effects as far as I can tell. Rafe said this way they can have more Loial scenes than trying to do a lot of effects. Consensus seems to be "Doesn't look right, but actor nailed it and everyone loves Loial."
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Dec 5, 2021 21:40
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CainFortea posted:Rand and Mat have horses. Yeah that line about the night at the inn was weird. It felt unnecessary. Like they’ve been on the run for a month but they have enough coin for that? Also it was a month later and they didn’t have horses at the start of the episode. They were walking.
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Dec 5, 2021 21:45
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jng2058 posted:The more fair comparison would be to Game of Throne's first season. Which seems to have been $70m or so for 600 minutes. Which puts it at around $167k/minute....which is pretty much where WoT is at $170k/min. Two major and a couple minor things here. The first is the obvious, which is that WOT by nature has to have a lot more expensive CGI than first season GOT did. The setting is more fantastical with a metric fuckload more visible magic. The second is that GOT built directly off the cancelled HBO show Rome, which had two seasons at $100+ million/season budget and has a very similar aesthetic to GOT. Props, costuming, studio expertise - a *lot* of it was already in HBO’s hands when they started work on GOT. Throw in inflation and the added expenses of Covid, and it is unsurprising WOT clearly hurts for money versus first season GOT. Now that they have the initial startup expenses behind them, and a season’s worth of experience (I agree, some characters should look worse for wear), I am optimistic that season two will stretch those dollars a lot further.
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