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they need to cancel this show again
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Dec 5, 2021 23:05
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Dec 5, 2021 23:07
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That was completely incoherent. I'm not sure I could explain how or why anything that happened happened. Doctor vs the Grand Serpent was great, as was her being rescued by herself. Probably the most Doctor Who the Chibnall run has felt. Also a massive fan of Vinder's voice going all squeaky at the absurdity of what was going on.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:10
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Based on that poster maybe they DIDN'T forget that the TARDIS was supposedly falling apart/breaking down for mysterious reasons only to just magically be back to normal when the Doctor was reunited with it.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:15
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the doctor calling the snake guy cringe for doing genocides then she just genocides sontarans and lets everyone else die
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Dec 5, 2021 23:19
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Jerusalem posted:Have they just ignored/forgotten Yeah Quotey posted:why is the episode riffing on itsself It took me a moment to realize the show even started because for some reason the entirety of this episode was cut exactly the same as the "Previously On..." recap
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Dec 5, 2021 23:31
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Sounds like giving this a miss was the right call.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:43
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Doctor vs the Grand Serpent was great, as was her being rescued by herself. Probably the most Doctor Who the Chibnall run has felt. The Doctor's half of that scene was great, but the grand serpent was totally unconvincing for me, he had zero gravitas. It felt like his evil scheme should have been to upsell humanity on some double glazing then take payment in cash to dodge space taxes.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:46
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One little touch I did like, the Grand Serpent had absolutely no idea who Vinder was. Not even a flicker of recognition, belated or otherwise. Of course he wouldn't remember him, Vinder was one of thousands of nameless underlings, a guy he spoke to once, and even if he was the one who ordered Vinder's exile (I'd assume that was taken care of at a level far beneath his notice) it would have happened without a moment's thought and then been discarded as a useless memory immediately. It makes the fact Vinder is the one who exiles him nicely poetic, he's facing consequences for an action he probably committed thousands of time without a second thought. I'm still not entirely sure why he took going after Kate Stewart so personally (I'm sure the inevitable Big Finish UNIT boxset explanations will cover this in great detail!) to the point he was willing to risk being on the ground floor of Flux destruction, but I did dig that aspect of Vinder's "revenge".
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Dec 5, 2021 23:46
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Felt like I was watching the episode on 3x speed because plot points came and went at what felt like 5 per every 30 seconds I enjoyed Flux overall though, and can't wait for next year where we have even less Jodie to tide us over ... it's gonna be a rough year, isn't it 
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Dec 6, 2021 00:00
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Jerusalem posted:One little touch I did like, the Grand Serpent had absolutely no idea who Vinder was. Oh, I thought that was because it was happening out of order for him, like he hadn’t met Vinder yet. Honestly, I didn’t really get the Grand Serpent. When we see Vinder’s fall, he’s someone very important politically, head of a lot of stuff, requires protection, and then we find out he’s a bit of a bastard too. Then he’s suddenly back in the past of UNIT, helping to form it, but having to act alone? It didn’t really all mesh together who exactly he was.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:24
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I honestly thought he was working for the Sugar Skull Gang after whatever fall from grace he had that cost him his dictatorship, but by the end it really did seem that he was just operating for the Sontarans despite having superior technology to them and had developed a real grudge against Kate Stewart for some reason. I'm not sure if his endgame was to basically rule from the shadows of whatever shell of the Universe was left for the Sontarans to rule over if their plan had worked, or if Division (or the Sugar Skull Gang) had offered him an out into the next Universe if he helped bring about the end of Earth and he was just making use of whatever tools he could find to achieve that aim. The latter would seemingly make more sense, but we're largely left to guess at what his motivations/goals were beyond simple survival.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:31
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i just assumed he managed to escape the flux and abandoned all his underlings, and hitched with the sontarans since they saw it coming.Dongicus posted:the doctor calling the snake guy cringe for doing genocides then she just genocides sontarans and lets everyone else die see, her problem in episode 2 was that the general didn't kill ENOUGH of the sontarans
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Dec 6, 2021 00:50
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Looking forward to next week when episode 7 of 13 explains a lot more of what just happened, I think today's episode was where things were starting to get interesting for this Flux story. ...say what?
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Dec 6, 2021 01:28
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Dongicus posted:they need to cancel this show again Picturing the BBC just backing up more trucks full of money to RTD's production company's offices, with a note that says "FOR DAVID TENNANT" hastily scrawled on it
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Dec 6, 2021 01:36
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Picturing the BBC just backing up more trucks full of money to RTD's production company's offices, with a note that says "FOR DAVID TENNANT" hastily scrawled on it A forlorn Eddie Redmayne stomps away cursing that he chose the wrong Doctor to cosplay as in those dreadful movies.
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Dec 6, 2021 01:51
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wow i have literally no idea what i just saw or what happened. okay so flux solved by stuffing it into a bag of holding. okay, whatever literally nobody cared about the flux at any point or thought it would ever mean or do anything. i did miss if the universe went back to regular or not? whats the snake pervert about, what's the point of him? the crystal guy just killed himself and lady candy for failing, or is that guy a copy odf him, why were they the same? who was the doctor the doctor was talking to and warning her of impending death and master appearance? what was the point of bel and vinder? are the dogmen still basically extinct along with cybermen and daleks or was that undone? whats the deal with the watches? what happened with tecteun or the division or whatever? did nobody on earth ever notice the universe was being destroyed or taken over? why didn't that lady want to go on a date with dan i guess they had planned at some point? what happened to her arm? what were the angels involved for and did they get any resolution i missed?
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Dec 6, 2021 02:23
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I'm guessing the scripts are just written by A.I. now? And by that I mean they start typing and let autocorrect finish the rest? I've binge watched the whole thing and I have no Idea what happened. What happened to the angels? The Sontarans motivation is what? conquer the universe and then die anyway? same for the big snake. The actors are really trying their best given the material they've been lumped with. Why are half of these people here? They introduced the dog people just to kill of all of them but one? I love a bit of technobabble, you don't have to be scientifically accurate for it to be fun but drat, you have to get some baseline rules down or you might as well just say nonsense.
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Dec 6, 2021 02:31
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Doctor Who, starring Jodie Whitaker, Mandip Gill, John Bishop and a waxwork of Aisling Bea.
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Dec 6, 2021 02:37
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"I will execute you" "I don't think you'll have time." Was a fun line. Though the flux should have got them both immediately after he said it. Honestly didn't think I'd see worse Who than Kill the Moon or In The Forest Of Thet Night. Whilst overall Capaldi's series was poorly written we still have Mummy on the Orient Express, Flat Line and Heaven Sent as phenomenal episodes. What have we got for Whitaker? Demons of the Punjab was very good, and I still love that janky frog puppet from It Takes You Away...
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Dec 6, 2021 02:41
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Khanstant posted:why didn't that lady want to go on a date with dan i guess they had planned at some point? what happened to her arm? It's actually the one redeeming thing about Flux that they cast the actor and didn't mention her arm at all as far as I remember.
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Dec 6, 2021 02:51
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I dug The Witchfinders up until the alien monsters showed up. It was a drat fun time until then, with Alan Cumming just absolutely hamming it up in the most wonderful ways. It Takes You Away is definitely the high point of quality for the Chibnall era so far. I do think The Woman Who Fell to Earth was a great introductory episode to the show too. Demons of the Punjab as mentioned was quite good, and Rosa I liked too. Resolution was a neat twist on the usual Dalek story by having this one have to reassemble a crude but functional Dalek shell to operate in. The cliffhanger of the first part of Spyfall was great, Fugitive of the Judoon had a bonkers twist and Jo Martin was great in it, and The Haunting of Villa Dodati is quite atmospheric though let down a bit when the Cyberman shows up. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 02:51
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This entire series strikes me as being hosed up by script rewrites and editing problems. It might be possible to do a 3h recut of the entire thing and turn it into a cool coherent story.
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Dec 6, 2021 03:03
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Me, at the beginning of the episode: "I wonder if Dan and Yaz will survive. Will the Doctor be okay?" BBC America: "Here's the trailer for EVE OF THE DALEKS during the second commercial break!" Khanstant posted:
The actress was born that way.
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Dec 6, 2021 03:32
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Khanstant posted:why didn't that lady want to go on a date with dan i guess they had planned at some point? what happened to her arm? Some people are born without all twenty digits, it’s normal. Also, if I wanted to go out on a date with someone and then ended up inside a weird robot prison I’d probably not want a second date.
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Dec 6, 2021 03:35
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Davros1 posted:Me, at the beginning of the episode: "I wonder if Dan and Yaz will survive. Will the Doctor be okay?" Haha, seriously? I mean, it's already like trying to understand the inner workings of some alien, insectoid mind when I try to perceive of watching Doctor Who with commercial breaks, but that really takes the cake!
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Dec 6, 2021 03:47
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Jerusalem posted:Haha, seriously? I mean, it's already like trying to understand the inner workings of some alien, insectoid mind when I try to perceive of watching Doctor Who with commercial breaks, but that really takes the cake! To be fair, they couldn't air the trailer at the end of the ep; they had a repeat of the movie Armageddon to get to! (Armageddon was also the film airing before tonight's Who ep) But yeah, watch an ep on DVD/streaming, and whenever there's a scene change every 5-7 minutes, pause it for 2-3 minutes. But make sure you catch the initial airing! Because if you catch the ep when BBC America repeats it, they edit the hell out of the longer eps to fit within a 42-45 minute runtime. Davros1 fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 03:50
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I feel like the actual resolution of the Flux (it's antimatter so it just needs to be pointed in the direction of enough matter) was good, logical, though I coulda sworn I'd heard that the whole plan was to destroy Earth last so the Sontarans' plan wasn't gonna leave much. If I mistaken in that detail then it works. And yeah you can tell this was supposed to have more episodes, they left way too much to tie up. But again, I feel like I understood the basic thrust of the story, the main problem was resolved, it wasn't just a delivery system for Shocking Revelations like last year's finale. Though I do think it goes to show that so far all this Timeless Child stuff hasn't added much to the show. It's not really mystery since we know the gist, and the way it was teased in this story wasn't really interesting. OTOH it only really got in the way in Episode 5.
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Dec 6, 2021 04:06
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Wow, I’m somehow more confused than before I watched the finale. They really just wrapped everything up without even trying to explain it, huh?Khanstant posted:wow i have literally no idea what i just saw or what happened. Yeah, I basically have every question here, too. (Except the one about the woman’s arm. That’s obviously the actress’s arm and who cares?)
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Dec 6, 2021 04:32
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Davros1 posted:The actress was born that way. She was born not wanting to go on a date with Dan?
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Dec 6, 2021 04:44
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jisforjosh posted:She was born not wanting to go on a date with Dan? I mean, you know all he's going to talk about is his home town.
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Dec 6, 2021 04:48
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Dan after being rejected: “what’s the point of being alive?”
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Dec 6, 2021 04:49
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I remember a Doctor Who season finale that really got me in the feels. It was the one with Dr Donna. I remember honestly being really blown away by her acting skill, the plot, the characters, the high stakes, the resolution and everything. It was good, entertaining, even thought-provoking television. This season of Doctor Who was unlike any other season I ever watched in that it was just... boring and confusing. With a female doctor you'd expect some sort of woke virtue preaching at worst, which I like to mention I don't actually mind. I can watch woke stuff, it's not a big deal. Strong perfect female characters are fun sometimes. But this season of Doctor Who wasn't that, it was just... boring and confusing. After the third episode I realized that important, unresolved plot points in the previous episode were just simply going to be dropped and never mentioned again, so I stopped caring about new plot points that were introduced in anticipation of them also being dropped and never mentioned again. And I was right not to care because none of them were resolved. The last thing I remember caring about was Cybermen Time Lords but we never saw any resolution to that plot thread at all. I mean come on! Time Lords that can regenerate inside Cyberman bodies! And weren't they being led by some sort of mercury ghost? A mercury ghost that the Master absorbed? You could do a whole season on that alone! Give me my goddamned time lord Cybermen you hack! I often judge the quality of television shows by how long their threads are here in the TV IV subform. I'd like to point out to all of you that this thread is only 20 pages long at the end of the season, which quite frankly is a disgrace. Vorgen fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 05:13
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Vorgen posted:I often judge the quality of television shows by how long their threads are here in the TV IV subform. I'd like to point out to all of you that this thread is only 20 pages long at the end of the season, which quite frankly is a disgrace. tbf it was only 6 episodes, so that's 3 pages per. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say disgrace, though it was pretty mediocre.
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Dec 6, 2021 05:20
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Khanstant posted:i did miss if the universe went back to regular or not? Yeah, this was kind of a glaring problem that I felt really needed to be resolved/explained in this episode as opposed to left to a future special to explain (if they even bother). In the prior episode, the Doctor excitedly pointed out if the Flux was launched from Division HQ then it could be reversed as well.... but then the Sugar Skull Gang showed up, Tectuen got killed, they teleported the Doctor to the planet Time and all she ever said to the Ood was to try and make the next Flux wave less powerful than it could have been, nothing about reversing anything. So.... I guess the universe remains mostly wiped out with most of the survivors used as batteries by the Sugar Skull Gang? Khanstant posted:whats the snake pervert about, what's the point of him? It's not clear if he was doing his own thing, working for/with the Sugar Skull Gang or for/with Division. In an earlier episode we got a brief backstory that he was a vindictive ruler of some kind of empire (whether commercial or military or an empire I don't know) but by the previous episode he was without his prior power and influence and kind of slumming it on a quick trip through the 20th Century into the 21st sabotaging UNIT to aid the Sontaran Invasion. If he was JUST working with the Sontarans then it's a pretty astonishing fall from grace, but again they didn't really provide us with enough information. Khanstant posted:the crystal guy just killed himself and lady candy for failing, or is that guy a copy odf him, why were they the same? Khanstant posted:who was the doctor the doctor was talking to and warning her of impending death and master appearance? A couple of episodes back they showed those little blue bits swarming around eating survivors of the Flux that were supposedly some kind of aspect of Time - as in the concept of Time. Swarm and Azure collected a bit of when they pulled off their heist at the Temple and then it kind of disappeared from the story. The Sugar Skull Gang kept talking about how they were part of the war between space and time without ever elaborating on it... then suddenly right towards the end of the episode it turns out those little blue bits were literally a personification of Time as a living, thinking entity which is... well it's kind of a big loving deal to drop out of nowhere! Time took on the form of Swarm before killing him and Azure, then took on the Doctor's form afterwards to deliver the ominous message about the Master. Khanstant posted:what was the point of bel and vinder? are the dogmen still basically extinct along with cybermen and daleks or was that undone? People kind of assumed Bel and Vinder would have some part to play in the Timeless Child resolution given she was pregnant and they kept focusing on them even after they stopped having any interactions with other characters, often to the detriment of the flow of other episodes. But then they just kind of.... left and that was that? It was really weird. Maybe they'll be back, if not then it was a really weird thing to put so much focus on. As far as we can tell given what we were told in the episode, the Good Doggy is the last of the Lupari now and all the others are dead. This was particularly weird because when one Lupari died last episode the Good Doggy revealed he could take control of other Lupari ships and so took control of Bel's.... instead of the one literally a few feet away from the rest of the fleet. Also he didn't take control of the rest of the fleet after the Sontarans killed all the other Lupari. Also also he revealed he and all Lupari have total control over their ships in order to deal with intruders remotely but... never used that system against Bel when they had their fight, and none of the other Lupari bothered to use it when attacked enmasse by the Sontarans? Khanstant posted:whats the deal with the watches? what happened with tecteun or the division or whatever? The watches are an established part of Who, going back to an excellent two part David Tennant story. They can remove memories (and I think even physical traits?) from their minds and even replace entire personalities and store them in the watch, which will hold them until they open them and their memories return. The watches are usually designed so that the person whose memories they're inside will feel the need to always hold onto them but never open them unless really pressed to do so, although that wasn't the case apparently with the Doctor's. Tectuen was supposedly one of the founding members of Time Lord society, and accorded to noted liar the Master was the Time Lord who discovered "The Timeless Child" and learned the secrets of regeneration from them. She ran Division, a Time Lord created secret order that encompassed the universe's various species and basically tried to manipulate events to unfold as they felt appropriate, in direct violation of the Time Lords' own policy of strict non-interference (that they constantly violated). For a supposedly 10+ million year old master manipulator, she failed to take into account the teleporting time-obsessed monster she released from imprisonment would then track her down and casually murder her with the barest touch of her hand. Khanstant posted:did nobody on earth ever notice the universe was being destroyed or taken over? That's a really bizarre one. Supposedly the Sontarans took over the entire earth, put out constant messages explaining what was happening in the universe, then they all got killed and the earth... just went on completely as normal like nothing ever happened. Khanstant posted:what were the angels involved for and did they get any resolution i missed? The resolution was literally just that they delivered the Doctor and then weren't seen again, outside of Tectuen showing the Doctor that the one that tricked her in an effort to stay free itself got recaptured. After that.... nothing.
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Dec 6, 2021 05:37
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I thought that was great fun, too fast of course (we needed more Kate Stewart and the Doctor scenes!) and with the typical Chibnall carelessness about wrapping up the details. I do agree with other posters that the whole “did 99% of reality just get destroyed” question really needed answering, but the main issue is that Chibnall needed to define the Flux and its functioning earlier on instead of doing a “Deathly Hallows” last minute definition. And of course some of the basic premise and elements are handled inconsistently. That was true in Key to Time and in Trial of a Time Lord. This one didn’t quite stick the landint, but worked better than either of those conclusions. The three Doctors and Jodie getting to rescue herself was a brilliant step, the fakeout where it turns out Bel is just pregnant (and shame on everyone who has a problem with that, plenty of women are pregnant and we almost never see one on TV where the baby isn’t at the center of her storyline, this was great), the stupid Sontaran plan that was actually kind of clever. The Sugar Skulls failing and getting dissolved (to their delight) by Time, who seems to be threatening the Doctor but also genuinely fond of her, and the tiny little winks and nods to me and the four other people who love the trippy mythology of The Time Monster, all far more than I’d expect from Chibnall. And after constantly failing to show the villains getting their comeuppances, Chibnall finally delivered in this one. Jerusalem posted:Based on that poster maybe they DIDN'T forget that the TARDIS was supposedly falling apart/breaking down for mysterious reasons only to just magically be back to normal when the Doctor was reunited with it. That was entirely covered: first two of the Mouri were destroyed, and IIRC a third, which damaged the stability of chained Time enough to mess with the TARDIS. The Sugar Skulls patched two of them so that the Doctor could arrive at Time and the Temple. The Doctor then convinced the Mouri in the next episode to put three replacements in, fixing the Temple of Atropos and therefore restabilizing the containment of Time, meaning the reasons the TARDIS was breaking down went away. There’s obvious handwaving here about how space and time function: why does only this TARDIS suffer from the disruption, and why doesn’t the disruption apply to all points in space-time until it doesn’t? But the show has always been vague about destroying the past and the future; we do know that can be done. Khanstant posted:wow i have literally no idea what i just saw or what happened. The Flux events apparently involved injecting antimatter from outside the universe into the universe, where it would destroy matter and itself. But as observed it appears that the Flux fed upon itself, like a leak in reality. As more antimatter poured in, the fabric of space parted to allow even more in. Imagine it’s antimatter grey goo: it can replicate itself over time, as long as it doesn’t hit matter and destroy itself. With the inflow choked by the Ood, the final surge got stopped before it could replicate because it ran into much more matter than anticipated. What that means for the earlier Flux events remains unclear; possibly Time did something to restore all the destroyed space and matter. We know that’s trivially possible, because the Sugar Skull gang explicitly said (after demonstrating multiple times) that they can reverse the destruction before repeating it in an “endless loop.” No idea about the Grand Serpent. He’s a villain, plain and simple. If he appears in any of the specials we’ll find out more. Time itself appeared taking on first the licorice Sugar Skull’s form and then the Doctor’s. The Skull plan relied on the final Flux consuming the Temple of Atropos to release Time, but the Doctor stopped that, so Time “rewarded” them by destroying them. (It is unclear what Time actually wants, and just as well, too.) Bel and Vinder were two characters in love and having a baby. Unless Chibnall does more with them, that’s all. It’s like asking “what is the point of Craig and Stormaggadon in Closing Time: they are characters and they do important things in the story. The watch contains the Doctor’s missing selves and memories, supposedly. Look up Chameleon Arch for more information. The fate of Division is unknown. Assuming Tecteun is dead (there is no body and she may have been on her own TARDIS), someone else presumably will take charge. I would imagine whoever that is may change their agenda vis a vis the Doctor. If RTD has no interest, they will vanish into the void and never be heard from again. We didn’t get any sense of the average person on Earth in the later episodes. Presumably, Time has been rewritten by the end of the story as it’s otherwise hard to imagine that a few days after the second Sontaran invasion museum tours are back to normal, but Chibnall didn’t bother to spell any of that out. (Still better than the end of the Key to Time, where it’s unclear whether the Doctor’s work was successfully completed during the period he stopped everything, or the whole quest was a fake or something else. At least we have hints here.) Clearly, Diane needs a little time after what she went through to process. Her “no” implied “someday, maybe, but not soon.” The Angels were agents for Division pursuing a renegade Angel and the Doctor. After fetching them both, they made no further appearance in the story.
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Dec 6, 2021 06:15
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Vorgen posted:I often judge the quality of television shows by how long their threads are here in the TV IV subform. I'd like to point out to all of you that this thread is only 20 pages long at the end of the season, which quite frankly is a disgrace. It'd be one thing if it were actually fun to dunk on the Chibnall era, but it really isn't. Partially because it's competently made but really dull, and partially because it leaves a bad taste in the mouth to ridicule the actors and crew who are trying their best with the material they've been given. Mostly, recent seasons have reeked of wasted potential. Also, the past few seasons have felt like Big Finish bait, which is just so obviously backwards. Updog Scully fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 06:21
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This entire series I keep thinking of a riff from MST3K, I forget what episode: "The director's vision was just lots of shots of stuff happening" I liked the interrogation scene, because that was The Doctor, finally and after how many episodes, oy. I cannot begin to even care about Bel and Vinder, and their little dog too. (Shout-out to the Doctor for not taking care of the poison in his brain!) Glad to see a (special trailer spoilers) Dalek Gatling laser in the trailer for the special though, that's something I'd have thought they'd have invented ages ago. edit:. I forgot the candy scene with the Sontaran, and now I'm mad at myself for remembering it. the gently caress was that? Flight Bisque fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 06:22
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Narsham posted:That was entirely covered: first two of the Mouri were destroyed, and IIRC a third, which damaged the stability of chained Time enough to mess with the TARDIS. The Sugar Skulls patched two of them so that the Doctor could arrive at Time and the Temple. The Doctor then convinced the Mouri in the next episode to put three replacements in, fixing the Temple of Atropos and therefore restabilizing the containment of Time, meaning the reasons the TARDIS was breaking down went away. That's a fair enough explanation, though the TARDIS still being all screwed up inside after they escaped the restored temple and nobody ever mentioning any perceived connection between the TARDIS' state (which you'd think the Doctor would be a lot more concerned about) and the problems in the temple seems a bit off to me - even just a line would have put to doubt to bed. From memory the last time the Doctor leaves the TARDIS it's still in bad shape, then she finds it with Kate basically 50 years later and it seems to be back to normal and it goes completely without any passing comment. It doesn't need to be handholding, but in a six episode season where so much is bring thrown at the wall its easy for stuff to get lost in the mix. Flight Bisque posted:I liked the interrogation scene, because that was The Doctor, finally and after how many episodes, oy. Seriously, her complete reversal of the power dynamic through nothing but chatting away was a delight. When he proudly declares himself THE GRAND SERPENT and she cackles at him was 
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Dec 6, 2021 08:14
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Flight Bisque posted:This entire series I keep thinking of a riff from MST3K, I forget what episode: "The director's vision was just lots of shots of stuff happening" I mean i assume the disconnect between how poo poo darleks are but how dangerous they’re supposed to be is kinda just an injoke now That one time they went all out on showing the power of a lone darlek it was to show that yes, a darlek can destroy a scimitar light tank. Now we understand how they rivalled the timelords.
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Dec 6, 2021 09:44
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