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Neo_Crimson posted:Also I'm glad you used the audio-less version. The original had the rear end in a top hat filming and his kid mocking the guy. 
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Dec 6, 2021 06:09
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My biggest problem with your essay is that boomers are not and never have been "discerning." Nobody who matters respects Harvard anymore, but not because they're too inclusive. They're becoming more inclusive because their image is just a joke where the punchline is rich kids too dumb to breathe go there because daddy contributed to their endowment. Also, appealing to an age group too old to actually drive anymore isn't a good business plan. Edit: that old BMW you posted is ugly and not aggressive looking at all. It just has a big dumb grin. Double edit: Here's the actual car they're making based on the concept. I still hate SUVs, but it's pretty good looking except the dumb tailpipes.  
KillHour fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 06:44
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Dec 6, 2021 08:10
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KillHour posted:
You've gone and illustrated exactly what BMW is doing and who they are catering to now my guy.
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Dec 6, 2021 08:48
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The thing about the "discerning boomers" wasn't that they were actually discerning, just that they were made to feel like they were discerning by their affinity for BMW. Brand inception, if you will. There's probably a fuckton of brand psychology at play, but that's not really my forte. As for Harvard, of course it's a joke. At my school, we had a "Harvard equivalent GPA calculator" to figure out what your GPA was if you were at Harvard you took your GPA and added .8. That's why its spell is so easily broken once you remove the exclusivity. Once the mystique dissipates, you realize Harvard won't actually give you a better education than your average state school and that BMW is just another car manufacturer. Was it necessary for BMW to move beyond their "exclusive" fan club of boomer VPs and enthusiasts in order to survive and grow as a company? Of course, because clinging to a limited, aging audience is indeed dumb. I just think their current design strategy is baffling and largely bad and wish they'd taken an "ultimate driving machines for everyone" approach instead of "ostentatious commodity status symbols for anyone who can swing the lease payments" but who are we kidding? Way more money in the latter approach. This is honestly a vast improvement over the concept, especially the rear. Like, way better. Still totally hate the grille and headlights though. Complete dealbreaker. That and the fact that it's a glorified, overpowered crossover (but I just don't like crossovers in general).
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Dec 6, 2021 09:11
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rich kids aren't sent to harvard and yale for the education, they're sent for the status and building social connections a poor kid with good enough grades can get a ride into harvard but they're still never going to walk into an executive position on wall st Queen Victorian posted:This is honestly a vast improvement over the concept, especially the rear. Like, way better. Still totally hate the grille and headlights though. Complete dealbreaker. That and the fact that it's a glorified, overpowered crossover (but I just don't like crossovers in general). unpretentious crossovers are great, RAV4 Hybrid is basically the ultimate vehicle for the vast vast majority of use cases tbh Wheeee fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 09:26
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I have a pet theory that design absolutely hates the guts of manufacturing and tries to come up with ever worse ways to make manufacturings life harder.
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Dec 6, 2021 12:24
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KillHour posted:Double edit: Here's the actual car they're making based on the concept. I still hate SUVs, but it's pretty good looking except the dumb tailpipes.
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Dec 6, 2021 13:47
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ilkhan posted:You must have included the wrong image set because drat what you posted is a loving ugly embarrassment. Turn on your monitor
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Dec 6, 2021 14:53
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I really dislike this weird sideways question mark shape tail light thing that BMW is doing lately. And just everything going on on the front bumper under the headlights is just ugly. Overall that's better than the concept, but I definitely wouldn't call it good looking.
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Dec 6, 2021 14:56
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I also think that at this point, a lot of automotive design is for China and other rapidly growing markets where tastes are different.
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Dec 6, 2021 16:01
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i own every Bionicle posted:I also think that at this point, a lot of automotive design is for China and other rapidly growing markets where tastes are different. Meanwhile, China is buidling stuff that appeals to us, but we don't get it. Like the Songsan Monterey:   2.0T plug-in hybrid or full electric.
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Dec 6, 2021 16:13
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I normally have zero appreciation for that 50's kinda style, but that looks like such a breath of fresh air compared to everything coming out a nowadays that I really like it. Although the extendo rear glass roof thing is really weird looking.
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Dec 6, 2021 16:15
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Something is still just off about it. Those wheels do not work and the proportions are weird. Rear door looks like it was crushed.
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Dec 6, 2021 17:11
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It's a cheap lovely copy, it looks like a fuckin joke, a god drat Homer car, and also better than a lot of real modern cars
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Dec 6, 2021 17:20
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Wheeee posted:It's a cheap lovely copy, it looks like a fuckin joke, a god drat Homer car, and also better than a lot of real modern cars You're not gonna be happy about what they're cooking up next, then.  
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Dec 6, 2021 17:29
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Did they hire the Ford designer who did the Nu Thunderbird?
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Dec 6, 2021 17:38
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KillHour posted:Did they hire the Ford designer who did the Nu Thunderbird? I think the owner just likes old American cars and styled these after them. Websites is pretty clear on what they are going for. https://www.songsanmotors.com/ VV real thing looks different. 
GlassEye-Boy fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 17:42
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Powershift posted:You're not gonna be happy about what they're cooking up next, then. 
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Dec 6, 2021 17:42
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GlassEye-Boy posted:I think the owner just likes old American cars and styled these after them. Websites is pretty clear on what they are going for. That's the convertible SS Dolphin, there's a 4 door coming. I need to see one next to a real vette, because they look to be a 150% scale copy, which i am 150% down for.
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Dec 6, 2021 17:52
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Powershift posted:That's the convertible SS Dolphin, there's a 4 door coming. 4 door seems to defeat the purpose of this thing.
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Dec 6, 2021 17:55
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Can't lie, I'm down for weird Chinese EV versions of old barges. It's not like they'll sell outside China anyway. I like to see wacky poo poo and these are at least nicer to look at than BMW's recent work.
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Dec 6, 2021 17:56
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I don't think they're even EVs, they're built by BYD on one of their hybrid drivetrains so maybe it's based on that BYD knockoff of the early 2000s Corolla. It has some kind of tiny 4 cylinder gas engine. Back in 2015-2018 cars were the third largest American export to China by volume, only behind passenger planes and soybeans, and probably 80% of those were BMW X5/6s since they sell more of those in China than the US or any other country and GM/Ford et al had moved their Chinese market car production to China long ago. Trump's trade war basically forced BMW to move X5 production to China and the US trade deficit rose appreciably as a result. 
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Dec 6, 2021 18:06
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Throatwarbler posted:I don't think they're even EVs, they're built by BYD on one of their hybrid drivetrains so maybe it's based on that BYD knockoff of the early 2000s Corolla. It has some kind of tiny 4 cylinder gas engine. Looks like they come in both a EV and Hybrid version. Uhh you realize that BYD is huge in EV's and have been for over a decade. BYD has their own very successful EV battery and skateboard technology which I'm sure these things are based off of, and its BYD selling their designs to Toyota these days not the other way around. GlassEye-Boy fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 18:10
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Queen Victorian posted:Making good on my promise to write another essay about BMW and the XM: I very much enjoyed your post. The only thing I would mention is I think as we get older we really romanticize the vehicles of our youth. This happens with most things we grew up with. Music*, movies, tv shows, cars, fashion, you name it. There's an emotional connection to them that influences our feelings and makes it hard to be objective about them. I don't deny an e39 was a fantastic car, but is it really all the things you said about it? This is really no different than boomers who are obsessed with their 67 Camaro. I'm never going to be 22 years old again, but my time spent around cheap compact sports cars of the early 2000's will always elicit a strong emotional response. My Sentra Spec-V and SRT-4 , taking off the rose tinted glasses of my youth, were not really great cars. That time of my life was fun though, and I'll always feel very fond about those cars, despite the fact they were not great cars at all. I could argue that a new V6 Camry is a better car than an E39 in almost every way. Your populuxe statements are so dead on though. There's so much stuff moving in that direction it's insane. For example my wife is dying to get a LV Neverfull, and I'm just like it's a 1600 dollars canvas bag. I rather spend the extra and get the real leather one, or something else that's timeless like a Saint Laurent Sac de Jour. It won't be plastered in the LV logo though which I guess is the point. *There will never be a better rock album than Appetite for Destruction ever. Don't @ me.
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Dec 6, 2021 18:55
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skipdogg posted:I very much enjoyed your post. What the gently caress are you talking about
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Dec 6, 2021 19:25
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When can I put a non-refundable deposit down on a 1967 styled Corvette Stingray VOLT SUV?
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Dec 6, 2021 20:30
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easy access to a national or even global scale mass market making the lowest common denominator the most profitable target for products and services combined with corporate domination of the arts mean we're living in a unique era in which many things actually are becoming worse it owns
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Dec 6, 2021 20:37
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KakerMix posted:Excellent post and super interesting to read because what you say sequences out my grievances with BMWs but also most new cars in general. It's probably what really bothers me about BMWs now is I know they have no idea what they are doing, I know they know it too but nobody is calling them out on it. Volvo? They know what they are doing because their current designs rule (and I'm not just saying that because we bought one, we bought one because I feel this is true). Hyundai's new direction with the Telluride is ultra-distinct and isn't confused with anything else. Ford's Bronco obviously has care and attention put into its design, and its clear as a company they really put in effort to make it work. My guess is that BMW is coasting on having been so good for so long. Buuut they've been coasting for a good long while now - there's gotta be reckoning soon because poo poo's dire. All these other car companies like Kia, Volvo, Ford, and Mazda that are currently totally killing it with good, tightly consistent design languages for their lineups is yet another reason why I'm so confused over BMW's hodgepodge offerings. I always assumed that buying a BMW involved deciding to buy "a BMW" and THEN determining which variant/configuration best suits your needs. Seems way easier than separately peddling a bunch of sub-brands. Wheeee posted:unpretentious crossovers are great, RAV4 Hybrid is basically the ultimate vehicle for the vast vast majority of use cases tbh Crossovers strike me as pretty much THE unpretentious jack-of-all-trades everycar. They don't necessarily excel at any one particular thing, but they're not designed to; their goal is to be at least pretty good at as many of the things as possible. So the idea of a performance luxury crossover kind of cracks me up. My thinking is if you're going to get a stupidly overpowered luxury performance car, might as well min/max for the best ride and handling and get one with a more optimal form factor and ride height and center of gravity and poo poo than a crossover. But then again none of those considerations really matter if it's just about the statement. Powershift posted:Meanwhile, China is buidling stuff that appeals to us, but we don't get it. I love it and I also hate it. I love a good unapologetically and gratuitously retro design, but there's just so much that's "off" about it that gives it away as an imposter. The proportions and geometry aren't quite there, the typography for the model name is anachronistic and not sized right, the back is weird, etc. I am currently designing a new kitchen for my fixer upper Victorian and my goal is to make a functionally modern kitchen that matches the period of the house. It means studying tons of historical references, identifying the particular and often subtle characteristics and proportions that make 1910 cabinets look like 1910 cabinets and figuring out how to apply them to new cabinets so that the new cabinets look like 1910 cabinets and not just contemporary cabinets with traditional styling inspired by 1910 cabinets. It's actually really loving hard. Our education and sensibilities are different, our surroundings are different, our materials and manufacturing methods are different - everything about our time is so different that it's quite difficult to get into the right zone and headspace to design authentically to a different era. Kudos for completely committing and going bold and still getting lots of things more or less right, though. skipdogg posted:The only thing I would mention is I think as we get older we really romanticize the vehicles of our youth. This happens with most things we grew up with. Music*, movies, tv shows, cars, fashion, you name it. There's an emotional connection to them that influences our feelings and makes it hard to be objective about them. I don't deny an e39 was a fantastic car, but is it really all the things you said about it? I actually drove an E32. From an academic/technical/design school standpoint, the E39 is exquisite in that it is very well proportioned, all its lines come together and connect or resolve in a visually satisfying way and there aren't too many of them, the form is what it needs to be and nothing more, nothing about it feels superfluous, and it quietly but firmly captures the brand (as it was at the time). It's quintessential "good design". It's also understated, minimalistic, and even unexciting. But it's totally my poo poo. 
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Dec 6, 2021 20:44
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Whenever I've though of "BMW" in my life, its always felt like the quintessential boring looking luxury car brand. Well made and such, i'm sure, but a BMW has never caused an "oooh" reaction or head turn on the road, they just all get filed away in my mind as "bland car owned by a bland manager". So while that SUV thing posted earlier was hilariously ugly to me (but then, every crossover/suv is inherently ugly to a greater or lesser extent), I can at least say it doesn't look boring. Disgust is, in the end, an emotional reaction after all  But then what do I know, I have bad taste and the last time I bought a car was over a decade ago.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:01
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Tom Guycot posted:Well made and such, i'm sure plastic impeller says lol 'German engineering' is a punchline, not a seal of quality
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Dec 6, 2021 22:06
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My first ride in a BMW was in a Golf Yellow 1974 2002 that we had in 75-77 when my pops worked at the Monterey BMW dealer. I had a 66 1600 from 85-87 that was awesome too until it blew up in the mtns (it was impossible to find parts for it with no internetz). The thing about BMW's back then was they had decent enough power but handled so loving good and were nimble as hell compared to everything else except maybe Porsches. By the early 2000's everyone had caught up and there wasn't as much reason to go for them........although I still did.....and still have one. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 22:15
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Tom Guycot posted:Whenever I've though of "BMW" in my life, its always felt like the quintessential boring looking luxury car brand. Well made and such, i'm sure, but a BMW has never caused an "oooh" reaction or head turn on the road, they just all get filed away in my mind as "bland car owned by a bland manager". It's weird because you can switch out "BMW" for "Audi" and I have the exact knee-jerk reaction. Sure the R8 is a Lambo in less shouty clothing but the rest of the lineup just feels so utterly forgettable to me. In my mind's eye, Audi is smack in the middle german brand as not as sporty as BMW, not as full-on luxury as Benz.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:42
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You can't really put them on a single axis spectrum because AMG is just as "sporty" as M except in a loud V8 way instead of a refined race car way.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:48
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kimcicle posted:It's weird because you can switch out "BMW" for "Audi" and I have the exact knee-jerk reaction. Sure the R8 is a Lambo in less shouty clothing but the rest of the lineup just feels so utterly forgettable to me. In my mind's eye, Audi is smack in the middle german brand as not as sporty as BMW, not as full-on luxury as Benz. Have you driven a modern Audi? I have been bitten by a liking for the poor man's luxury / entry level luxury, and I really like the A4. It seems less flashy and ostentatious than the 3 Series and C Class entrants, and feels solid and a lovely place to be. The 3 Series is still probably the best in the category overall, though, and it still feels drat nice inside. I wish I could afford some flavor of it with the more punchy engines. For now (and for the forseeable future money-wise) an older A4 is what I'm sticking with.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:55
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Inner Light posted:Have you driven a modern Audi? I have been bitten by a liking for the poor man's luxury / entry level luxury, and I really like the A4. It seems less flashy and ostentatious than the 3 Series and C Class entrants, and feels solid and a lovely place to be. Yeah I'm in agreement here. The M340i is an excellent 3 series and as true to form as it gets in the modern "sport" luxury environment. It has none of the weird bullshit design choices and its design language is pretty much in line with modern times while drawing back design cues from its heritage. If I could nitpick I would say the instrument cluster is probably its biggest weak point. If you want something bigger you can get a 5 series and it still has that "boring anonymous" luxury sedan look. The modern 5 Series IMO doesn't look much different from the E39. Ultimately my lovely opinion is this: The E60 and F10 5 series were ugly cars, everyone and their uncle drove around in off-lease used models and they never ever appealed to me. The same opinion applies to the E90 and F30. In my mind if I was a BMW owner who wanted to stick with the brand, my progression would be E46 to G20 or E39 to F90. They were loving up for two solid generations before they got good again. I guess the V10 M5 was interesting but other than that forget about it.
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Dec 6, 2021 23:18
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Inner Light posted:Have you driven a modern Audi? I have been bitten by a liking for the poor man's luxury / entry level luxury, and I really like the A4. It seems less flashy and ostentatious than the 3 Series and C Class entrants, and feels solid and a lovely place to be. I have! I was deciding on my current vehicle last winter and drove the C Class / A4 / 3 Series. They are all well built and drive nice but I liked the infotainment and interior layout of the 3 Series more so that's what I ended up with. I could easily see myself in an A4 but I just preferred a few things in the 3 series more.
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Dec 6, 2021 23:30
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skipdogg posted:The only thing I would mention is I think as we get older we really romanticize the vehicles of our youth. This happens with most things we grew up with. Music*, movies, tv shows, cars, fashion, you name it. There's an emotional connection to them that influences our feelings and makes it hard to be objective about them. I don't deny an e39 was a fantastic car, but is it really all the things you said about it? This is really no different than boomers who are obsessed with their 67 Camaro. I'm never going to be 22 years old again, but my time spent around cheap compact sports cars of the early 2000's will always elicit a strong emotional response. My Sentra Spec-V and SRT-4 , taking off the rose tinted glasses of my youth, were not really great cars. That time of my life was fun though, and I'll always feel very fond about those cars, despite the fact they were not great cars at all. I could argue that a new V6 Camry is a better car than an E39 in almost every way. Very much this. I'm very tired of the continued deification of the E46 and E39. They're good, sure, maybe even great. But everyone kinda forgot that when the E39 came out many declared it a fat bloated ugly pig, and like many BMW's they have some expensive common faults. Looks are of course entirely subjective, but for my money the E60 has aged way better (especially the rear 3/4 view). E92 coupe probably the best. But hell I think the facelift (important point) E65 aged a lot better than when it launched. Facelift taillights really help the big booty and facelift headlights are much less fussy.
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Dec 6, 2021 23:56
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A classic-looking, fairly boring sedan or hatchback does stand out these days because of the sea of CUVs and the multitude of designers who've crawled entirely up their own assholes. Although, for whatever it's worth, I like the Songsans. I'm not giving full marks on the execution, but the concept is worthy.
PT6A fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 00:07
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PT6A posted:A classic-looking, fairly boring sedan or hatchback does stand out these days because of the sea of CUVs and the multitude of designers who've crawled entirely up their own assholes. Although, for whatever it's worth, I like the Songsans. I'm not giving full marks on the execution, but the concept is worthy. I'm in the minority in that I like the boring sedan design because it appears timeless and ages well... For that reason I like cars like the B8.5 A4/S4/RS4, the 3 Series and 5 Series, the new Jetta, new Civic etc. I think designs like that age better for long term ownership. It's the difference between buying a suit and tie versus buying whatever looks cool on an impulse buy at H&M. You'll get tired of it and never wear it again after a season. Kia and Hyundai for example have reworked their car designs repeatedly and every time a new model year comes out the previous year becomes forgettable or just grossly outdated looking. That's awesome if you lease, but not so great if you're looking for something that doesn't seem so out of place years down the road. It's why VW doesn't change the appearance of their Golf MY over MY. Small incremental changes that lead to everyone going "thats a golf". The wow factor might not be as intense as something like a Civic Type R but after a year of ownership you'll find nothing particular offends you about the car's design and you can keep living with it when the newness wears off.
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Dec 7, 2021 00:32
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