|
Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Black Beauty |
|
2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
|
4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
|
117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
|
11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
|
54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
|
Judakel posted:All three of them, yes. If not three, it wasn't so "mild" - unclinically speaking. I think you may have absorbed some incorrect facts about vaccines.
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 00:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 06:14 |
|
|
Fritz the Horse posted:Vaccine effectiveness against severe illness waned for immunocompromised and elderly people and against infection for everyone, that's why you got a booster. Not because vaccines are much less effective against Delta, but because two-shot vaccine effectiveness wanes. People got a booster against Delta because even clinically mild covid can kick your rear end regardless of the status of your immune system. It just kicks your rear end at home, rather than the hospital. Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think you may have absorbed some incorrect facts about vaccines. No, I don't think so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
Judakel posted:People got a booster against Delta because even clinically mild covid can kick your rear end regardless of the status of your immune system. It just kicks your rear end at home, rather than the hospital. I'm not sure if you mean to be saying this, but this reads to me like the boosters were formulated specifically to combat Delta. To my knowledge, they were not; they're just the same stuff as the first 2, but 6 months later. It is true that there was talk of maybe needing to have variant-specific boosters, but to my knowledge none of that has made it past the theory phase and have been spun up into production, simply due to the fact that the original stuff that's already rolling off the line is "good enough"
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 00:45
|
|
|
Zarin posted:I'm not sure if you mean to be saying this, but this reads to me like the boosters were formulated specifically to combat Delta. What I am saying is that people didn't just need boosters to combat the potential for infection from delta, but to increase the amount of antibodies available for the rapid response that was needed against delta even if infected. That strain attacks so rapidly that t cells cannot spin up enough antibodies before people are "mildly" sick (read: pretty sick). T cells still eventually would be able to produce enough, but you really wanted to avoid getting people very sick and producing that much virus.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 00:51
|
|
|
Judakel posted:What I am saying is that people didn't just need boosters to combat the potential for infection from delta, but to increase the amount of antibodies available for the rapid response that was needed against delta even if infected. That strain attacks so rapidly that t cells cannot spin up enough antibodies before people are "mildly" sick (read: pretty sick). T cells still eventually would be able to produce enough, but you really wanted to avoid getting people very sick and producing that much virus. Ah, gotcha, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I mis-read then, sorry about that. I hadn't considered that angle of the booster benefit; I really only ever just read that effectiveness from the second shot started dropping off after 6 months, so a 3rd one was a good idea. With that in mind then, yeah, it'll be real interesting to see how Omicron plays out. Also if we see a waning effectiveness after the 3rd shot, or if that holds immunity up a bit longer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 00:57
|
|
|
I mean some waning after a third shot is inevitable, that's expected for antibodies. The question is how durable the antibodies and memory cell immunity are.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 00:59
|
|
|
Judakel posted:What I am saying is that people didn't just need boosters to combat the potential for infection from delta, but to increase the amount of antibodies available for the rapid response that was needed against delta even if infected. That strain attacks so rapidly that t cells cannot spin up enough antibodies before people are "mildly" sick (read: pretty sick). T cells still eventually would be able to produce enough, but you really wanted to avoid getting people very sick and producing that much virus. That doesn't really jive with what we saw here in Ontario. Our cases were dropping even in the face of Delta until now where most people are 6 months from their second shot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 00:59
|
|
|
Judakel posted:https://twitter.com/SteveMillerOC/status/1467948685103230977 Regarding the second tweet - what exactly happened between November 18th and November 19th?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:00
|
|
|
Zarin posted:Ah, gotcha, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I mis-read then, sorry about that. Omicron at least does not attack as fast as delta, which makes sense since it is descendant from alpha/gamma and not delta. So we're back to a window of a couple of weeks or so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:00
|
|
|
Mr Luxury Yacht posted:That doesn't really jive with what we saw here in Ontario. Our cases were dropping even in the face of Delta until now where most people are 6 months from their second shot. If you're still within the six month window of your second shot then you're fine. Canada stumbled assbackwards into the smartest way to administer the vaccine, which seems to be a longer delay between the first and second shot. This was largely due to a lack of supply, but they got it right anyway. Due to the timing of when most people got the 2nd shot in America, by the time you started seeing articles on delta popping up, it was time for the old people and immunocompromised to get their boosters anyway. Of course, we waited a while after that to give the go ahead for them to get their boosters.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:04
|
|
|
Judakel posted:What I am saying is that people didn't just need boosters to combat the potential for infection from delta, but to increase the amount of antibodies available for the rapid response that was needed against delta even if infected. That strain attacks so rapidly that t cells cannot spin up enough antibodies before people are "mildly" sick (read: pretty sick). T cells still eventually would be able to produce enough, but you really wanted to avoid getting people very sick and producing that much virus. This doesn't seem true at all. Vaccinated people, of any type, are currently 14% as likely to be infected at all as unvaccinated people, and 93% less likely to die. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status There wasn't some thing where delta invalidated vaccines and we all needed boosters to get them to work again. Waning was like, a few percent loss. (a few percent that could be regained by taking a 15 dollar shot, so we did that, but waning was the START of losing immunity, not the point it dropped to zero)
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:05
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:This doesn't seem true at all. Yeah it's this. The booster isn't used to bring us from 10% back to 50%. By this point, it's something more like the slight difference between 75% and 80%. But since that is a strict improvement without any remarkable downsides, everyone is advised to get a third shot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:15
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:This doesn't seem true at all. That great but I didn't say it completely invalidated the vaccines. Anyway, you can read about the drop here: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114228
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:This doesn't seem true at all. I think it’s a good idea to break down this sort data by age group. It’s well known that old fucks don’t retain their immune response for long after the initial round of vaccination, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for younger people. Presenting a single stat for the entire population isn’t really relevant for the majority of goons I’d imagine and presents a far bleaker picture than is actually the case.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:19
|
|
|
cant cook creole bream posted:Yeah it's this. The booster isn't used to bring us from 10% back to 50%. By this point, it's something more like the slight difference between 75% and 80%. But since that is a strict improvement without any remarkable downsides, everyone is advised to get a third shot. More like 40% drop. https://www.reuters.com/business/he...udy-2021-10-04/
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:23
|
|
|
Welp, we made it this far but unfortunately my wife tested positive. Working in a preschool pretty much made it inevitable. I just tested negative and my kids have tests scheduled for the morning. She's vaccinated and really only mildly symptomatic. We're doing our best to isolate but it seems like only a matter of time before we're all sick. My oldest has both shots and the two younger ones got their first shot a week ago. Edit: We really can't afford a hotel for the 10 days or whatever. If they test back negative we might have to figure something out but I'm not sure what choice we have other than masks in the house. I'm not even sure I can take off work unless I test positive myself. TheJunkyardGod fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Dec 7, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:28
|
|
|
TheJunkyardGod posted:Welp, we made it this far but unfortunately my wife tested positive. Working in a preschool pretty much made it inevitable. Put her in a hotel to quarantine if you can afford it. Those younger ones don't have the vaccine up and running in them yet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
TheJunkyardGod posted:Welp, we made it this far but unfortunately my wife tested positive. Working in a preschool pretty much made it inevitable. Sorry to hear it, and fingers crossed for a rapid and easy recovery. Don't assume that it's a foregone conclusion that you're going to be infected though - even within a household, transmission is not a foregone conclusion, so it probably would still be worthwhile to avoid as much exposure between infected and uninfected family members as possible. (My data is wildly out of date, but back in 2020, the study I read regarding household transmission of wild strain was something like <20% likelihood.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
TheJunkyardGod posted:Welp, we made it this far but unfortunately my wife tested positive. Working in a preschool pretty much made it inevitable. This is just one anecdote but one of the people I work with had four of her five kids test positive two weeks ago, they've been under quarantine since and had multiple tests. She's vaccinated and been wearing an N95 and trying to spend time outdoors (it's been unseasonably warm), but she's also a single mother of five taking care of four sick kids. Somehow she and the fifth kid have managed to not catch COVID during those two weeks. It sucks and best wishes to your family, but it's not an inevitability everyone gets sick.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:I remember people saying Delta was milder and also going "where are the deaths?" a week after it got here. Owlofcreamcheese posted:I don’t remember that at all, delta got wide attention as “a thing” by being “the variant that is loving up India”, it didn’t even get the delta name until after people were calling it the modi variant and stuff. I remember.   
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:48
|
|
|
Judakel posted:More like 40% drop. https://www.reuters.com/business/he...udy-2021-10-04/ "The effectiveness of the Pfizer Inc (PFE.N)/BioNTech SE vaccine in preventing infection by the coronavirus dropped to 47% from 88% six months after the second dose... the vaccine's effectiveness in preventing hospitalization and death remained high at 90% for at least six months, even against the highly contagious Delta variant of the coronavirus. It's useful to read the article and not just the headline.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
gay picnic defence posted:I think it’s a good idea to break down this sort data by age group. It’s well known that old fucks don’t retain their immune response for long after the initial round of vaccination, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for younger people. Presenting a single stat for the entire population isn’t really relevant for the majority of goons I’d imagine and presents a far bleaker picture than is actually the case. You can click the very link in that post to find that data  Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Dec 7, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
freebooter posted:"The effectiveness of the Pfizer Inc (PFE.N)/BioNTech SE vaccine in preventing infection by the coronavirus dropped to 47% from 88% six months after the second dose... the vaccine's effectiveness in preventing hospitalization and death remained high at 90% for at least six months, even against the highly contagious Delta variant of the coronavirus. It’s also useful to focus on the things that actually matter. Almost no one gives a poo poo about their likelihood of getting a severe cold but they do care about going to hospital which the vaccines seem to be really good at preventing despite the fuss about declining immunity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:01
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:You can click the very link in that post to find that data holy crap, you can click links and not just breathlessly react to the headline? gamechanger if true.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:02
|
|
|
gay picnic defence posted:It’s also useful to focus on the things that actually matter. Almost no one gives a poo poo about their likelihood of getting a severe cold but they do care about going to hospital which the vaccines seem to be really good at preventing despite the fuss about declining immunity. Breakthrough COVID isn't a "severe cold". It's significantly more dangerous than seasonal influenza if you're over ~40, with a higher likelihood of lingering symptoms. It's more dangerous than the most severe "cold" across the board, except maybe RSV for < 5 (if you want to lump that in with colds).
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
TheJunkyardGod posted:Welp, we made it this far but unfortunately my wife tested positive. Working in a preschool pretty much made it inevitable. For whatever it's worth, my wife popped positive back in August. She's a teacher, so she picked it up there most likely. She was vaccinated back in February. We thought for sure both of our kids picked it up (2 & 4), but it turns out they came down with rsv right at the same time and tested negative for COVID several times during our quarantine. We pretty much lived outside and us adults in masks for two weeks, but it's not exactly easy to get a 2yo to understand what's going on. Of course fast forward to the beginning of November and most likely one or both kids bring it home to me anyway. I wore an n95 for about 15 hours a day around the house. It sucks, it's hectic, it's extremely stressful, but you the best you can.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:22
|
|
|
for some reason, people that spend boatloads of time next to positive people just, like, don't catch it; i recall talking to my neighbor and, in february, her husband and both their teenage sons tested positive and despite spending all their time together in the time before the positive test, she didn't catch it
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:24
|
|
|
freebooter posted:"The effectiveness of the Pfizer Inc (PFE.N)/BioNTech SE vaccine in preventing infection by the coronavirus dropped to 47% from 88% six months after the second dose... the vaccine's effectiveness in preventing hospitalization and death remained high at 90% for at least six months, even against the highly contagious Delta variant of the coronavirus. Why would you think this is relevant to a discussion concerning the prevention of infection? It's useful to read the thread, too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:24
|
|
|
Stickman posted:Breakthrough COVID isn't a "severe cold". It's significantly more dangerous than seasonal influenza if you're over ~40, with a higher likelihood of lingering symptoms. It's more dangerous than the most severe "cold" across the board, except maybe RSV for < 5 (if you want to lump that in with colds). It's also potentially a major personal disruption or even loss of wages.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:24
|
|
|
Craig K posted:for some reason, people that spend boatloads of time next to positive people just, like, don't catch it; i recall talking to my neighbor and, in february, her husband and both their teenage sons tested positive and despite spending all their time together in the time before the positive test, she didn't catch it If it's a legitimate exposure, the immune system has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. I think there should be some punishment
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:26
|
|
|
Judakel posted:Why would you think this is relevant to a discussion concerning the prevention of infection? It's useful to read the thread, too. Because you were asserting that "clinically mild" means anything short of hospitalisation and therefore even fully vaccinated healthy people need to be really worried about catching COVID.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:34
|
|
|
Craig K posted:for some reason, people that spend boatloads of time next to positive people just, like, don't catch it; i recall talking to my neighbor and, in february, her husband and both their teenage sons tested positive and despite spending all their time together in the time before the positive test, she didn't catch it It has more to do with the positive person than it does with everyone else. You know how superspreaders are a thing? If you share a house with one, you’re probably going to get infected. If not, you may escape. Or at least, you would have. The household secondary attack rate in 2020 was something like twenty percent. It’s a lot higher with Delta. In technical terms, the transmission dynamics are “overdispersed”. It’s not that everyone infects four people. Lots of people infect one person or no one, but a few go on to sicken scores.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:In technical terms, the transmission dynamics are “overdispersed”. It’s not that everyone infects four people. Lots of people infect one person or no one, but a few go on to sicken scores. yeah, that's a good way to put it; i didn't really think about it that way
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:50
|
|
|
Stickman posted:Breakthrough COVID isn't a "severe cold". It's significantly more dangerous than seasonal influenza if you're over ~40, with a higher likelihood of lingering symptoms. It's more dangerous than the most severe "cold" across the board, except maybe RSV for < 5 (if you want to lump that in with colds). I don't think that is true: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00306-2/fulltext quote:Despite compelling evidence that SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are highly effective in preventing COVID-19 infections, breakthrough cases have been emerging at an increasing rate.1 A retrospective cohort study by Tartof and colleagues2 found that vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 decreased over time; however, its effectiveness against hospitalisation associated with COVID-19 remained robust, with no apparent reduction in vaccine effectiveness between 1 month (87%) and 5 months (88%) after vaccination with the BNT162b2 vaccine. Although most breakthrough COVID-19 cases are mild or moderate in severity, severe cases and deaths have been reported. In this Comment, we describe the shift in the landscape of severe COVID-19 requiring hospitalisation in a health system with high regional vaccination rates, whereby 90·9% of individuals aged 65–74 years and 85·6% of those aged 75 years and older are fully vaccinated as of Oct 17, 2021.4 quote:Among the patients with severe or critical COVID-19, the age distribution of patients with breakthrough infections was skewed towards older age groups (mean age 71·5 years) compared with those who were unvaccinated (55·2 years; appendix p 2). Furthermore, underlying comorbidities—including cardiovascular and lung disease, type 2 diabetes, history of malignancy, and baseline use of immunosuppressive medications—were more prevalent in patients with breakthrough infections than in those who were unvaccinated (appendix p 3). Despite these differences, which could potentially portend worse clinical outcomes for the patients with severe breakthrough COVID-19, we observed a shorter mean duration of hospitalisation (10·8 days vs 13·1 days), lower risk of advanced oxygen or ventilatory support (26 [32%] of 82 vs 72 [51%] of 140 patients), and lower in-hospital mortality (eight [10%] vs 17 [12%] patients) among patients with breakthrough COVID-19 than among those who were unvaccinated. Most breakthrough infections are described as "mild or moderate", making them indeed similar to a bad cold. I also wasn't able to find anything that suggests a higher likelihood of lingering symptoms in breakthrough cases.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:53
|
|
|
freebooter posted:Because you were asserting that "clinically mild" means anything short of hospitalisation and therefore even fully vaccinated healthy people need to be really worried about catching COVID. Correct. Your clarification changes nothing about my question. Clinically mild means not requiring hospitalizations. Fully vaccinated healthy people should've been concerned about catching delta given when boosters were greenlit and when most fully vaccinated people got the second shot in the US. The poster I was replying to was referring to infections. So on, so forth.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Most breakthrough infections are described as "mild or moderate", making them indeed similar to a bad cold. I also wasn't able to find anything that suggests a higher likelihood of lingering symptoms in breakthrough cases. The same statement could be made for cases in an unvaccinated, completely naive population.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 02:55
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/mkarolian/status/1467959999645298697?s=20 It’s not just other countries. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 03:10
|
|
|
I'm shocked that South Dakota is doing any remotely responsible things wrt COVID
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 03:34
|
|
|
Jesus she's awful. Yes you should be sending tests to everyone regularly. Masks, too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 03:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 06:14 |
|
|
brugroffil posted:Jesus she's awful. Yes you should be sending tests to everyone regularly. Masks, too. lol OK V. Lenin and how exactly is the federal government supposed to just mail things to everyone???
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2021 03:41
|
|
