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Terry Goodkind was an absolute bellend with an ironic lastname. I also just found out he died last year so that's some great news for today
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Dec 6, 2021 18:08
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the_steve posted:Absolutely. My point was just that I didn't think authors typically got any say-so in the artwork for their book covers. generally they don't and i imagine they have even less say on international covers I doubt Pratchett gave a gently caress what the American publisher did except paying him
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Dec 6, 2021 18:09
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the_steve posted:Absolutely. My point was just that I didn't think authors typically got any say-so in the artwork for their book covers. From what I've heard, no. It gets way worse than this too. I got recommended a book about a young black girl who's dealing with the fallout of her friend being killed by the police, and whoever published it in my country just straight up put a white girl on the cover. Goodkind (when he was alive) also tried to sic his fans on one of the cover artists for his post-Sword of Truth series, he was angry she drew the characters 'wrong' or something. I honestly can't say if the cover was accurate or not, but her response was essentially, 'I drew exactly what was requested' (presumably by his publishers).
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Dec 6, 2021 18:16
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Torquemada has a new favorite as of 18:25 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 18:20
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One of my few clear memories of elementary school is of when Gordon Korman of Bugs Potter fame came to give a talk, and someone asked him why the cover of one of his books had two female characters laughing along with the male main characters of the novel when the actual event in the story has only the two main characters alone, and he replied by saying that the publisher wanted to trick people into thinking there were female characters in the novel so that more people would buy it. I don’t know how well any of those novels aged, but some of them had female characters.
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Dec 6, 2021 18:30
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the_steve posted:Absolutely. My point was just that I didn't think authors typically got any say-so in the artwork for their book covers. Case in point:  The main character in Take Back Plenty is black
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Dec 6, 2021 18:41
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:One of my few clear memories of elementary school is of when Gordon Korman of Bugs Potter fame came to give a talk, and someone asked him why the cover of one of his books had two female characters laughing along with the male main characters of the novel when the actual event in the story has only the two main characters alone, and he replied by saying that the publisher wanted to trick people into thinking there were female characters in the novel so that more people would buy it. For the most part, not horribly. They're dated for sure but nothing too shameful in them. The McDonald Hall ones even got a couple movies made a few years ago. Worst that comes to mind is the generic creating an indigenous character out of thin air in Bugs Potter live at Nickaninny.
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Dec 6, 2021 18:42
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Regarde Aduck posted:I doubt Pratchett gave a gently caress what the American publisher did except paying him IIRC he got pretty heated when the German publisher inserted ads for soup into the text of his earlier books
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Dec 6, 2021 19:21
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Khizan posted:Note, the book he was throwing that fit about actually had a dragon as a major plot point, it was not a case of ‘gently caress it, people like dragons, add one to the cover’. It wasn't really a dragon at all but he was so poo poo at describing it that the message got muddled. It was more a giant scaly chicken. I'm pretty sure that was the last book I read in the series. Not sure why I continued after the female protagonist takes a moment to consider the taste of her hymen on the main protags dick
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Dec 6, 2021 19:27
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That Italian Guy posted:The classic cover doesn't have any racial connotations, but otoh it has TwoFlowers with literally 4 eyes because apparently the author has never heard about the moniker. It has nothing to do with Pratchett and everything to do with artist Josh Kirby being a brush for hire who would do a couple of dozen book covers a year. When Kirby was given his brief it was two pages from the book: the scene where Twoflower and the Luggage rescue Rincewind in the Broken Drum, and Rincewind's description of Twoflower from their first meeting. In that description Rincewind thinks of Twoflower as literally having four eyes because he has never seen spectacles before, and without context that's how Kirby drew him. He had no description of Rincewind at all other than "wizard, wears a red robe with stars on it" and so he drew a traditional grey-bearded Gandalf type instead of the rat-faced 33 year old he's meant to be. And Pterry, as a neophyte author, had no clout to get it changed. By the time it came to TLF Kirby knew a bit better, but he had to draw the characters the same way as on the first cover for continuity.
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Dec 6, 2021 19:51
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:It wasn't really a dragon at all but he was so poo poo at describing it that the message got muddled. It was more a giant scaly chicken. I'm pretty sure that was the last book I read in the series. Not sure why I continued after the female protagonist takes a moment to consider the taste of her hymen on the main protags dick I think you're mixing several books up. There's an Evil Chicken That Is Not A Chicken, but Scarlet ( https://sot.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon) is definitely a D&D-like red dragon. Later, when magic briefly ceases to exist, many of the magical creatures of the world die off, including most of the dragons. The, uh, other part also happens, in the 4th book.
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Dec 6, 2021 19:57
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Phy posted:IIRC he got pretty heated when the German publisher inserted ads for soup into the text of his earlier books Whaaaaaaat
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Dec 6, 2021 20:01
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On that note, every now and then I remember the covers for the German translations of Game of Thrones: "I'm here to draw shirtless vikings and I don't care what you say it's about."
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Dec 6, 2021 20:13
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GreenMetalSun posted:I think you're mixing several books up. There's an Evil Chicken That Is Not A Chicken, but Scarlet ( https://sot.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon) is definitely a D&D-like red dragon. Later, when magic briefly ceases to exist, many of the magical creatures of the world die off, including most of the dragons. They don't even have it happen on screen. It's basically Main Character: "So if Magic is in flux like this, then what about creatures of magic?" Someone Else: "Dead. Totes dead." MC: "Ah. Sucks for them, oh well." And the red dragon was ostensibly his friend.
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Dec 6, 2021 20:18
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A few pages back now, but I always felt the Drow took WAY more from the Black Martians of ERB's Barsoom stuff than they did from the Svartalfr. The Black Martians were said to be the most physically beautiful of all Martians. Check. The Black Martians were, well, black. Check. The Black Martians lived underground and only really interacted with outsiders to raid for slaves and sport. Check. The Black Martians were ruled by an insane theocracy dedicated to an insane goddess. Check. And while they weren't matriarchal, the Black Martian women were mentioned as doing literally nothing and having everything - in some cases even speaking - done by slaves. Men did nothing but fight. All else was done by slaves. Again, kind of fits.
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Dec 6, 2021 20:26
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Arivia posted:Whaaaaaaat He changed publishers for the German editions just as his novels were starting to take off, which was considered unusual. Terry Pratchett posted:There were a number of reasons for switching to Goldmann, but a deeply personal one for me was the way Heyne (in Sourcery, I think, although it may have been in other books) inserted a soup advert in the text … a few black lines and then something like ‘Around about now our heroes must be pretty hungry and what better than a nourishing bowl’… etc, etc. My editor was pretty sick about it, but the company wouldn’t promise not to do it again, so that made it very easy to leave them. They did it to Iain Banks, too, and apparently at a con he tore out the offending page and ate it. Without croutons. Apparently the publisher did it with all their genre fiction and could not understand what they had done wrong.
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Dec 6, 2021 20:42
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Sweevo posted:He changed publishers for the German editions just as his novels were starting to take off, which was considered unusual. Here’s an example of them doing it in a William Gibson work https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1096179718997520384?s=21
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Dec 6, 2021 20:47
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the_steve posted:They don't even have it happen on screen. It's basically "Even the fairies?" "Yes Richard, every creature's dead." "...even the dragons?" "Every creature's dead Rick." "..even the minotaurs?" "They're all dead. Every creature's dead Rick." "The orcs aren't are they?" "Every creature''s dead Rick." "The medusa?" "She is dead, everybody's dead. Every creature is. dead. Rick." (I made up creatures for the joke, never read the books. I only know one of the main characters is called Richard)
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Dec 6, 2021 20:50
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If Jack Kirby redesigns your characters, even inadvertently, you gotta rewrite them to match The King's vision. Those are simply the rules.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:26
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Detective No. 27 posted:If Jack Kirby redesigns your characters, even inadvertently, you gotta rewrite them to match The King's vision. Those are simply the rules.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:35
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Agree, but the artist in question is Josh Kirby.  this explains why that cover looks nothing like Jack Kirby's.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:40
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Which one of them drew the Hal Laboratory Inc. dog eggs?
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Dec 6, 2021 22:51
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Dibbler is pretty much a caricature of sausage sellers.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:53
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I get why authors would get mad but I think the soup thing is actually cool and hilarious.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:57
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Kit Walker posted:Terry Goodkind was an absolute bellend with an ironic lastname. I also just found out he died last year so that's some great news for today Nice
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Dec 7, 2021 00:00
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Sweevo posted:He changed publishers for the German editions just as his novels were starting to take off, which was considered unusual. I've got a soup-er idea
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Dec 7, 2021 00:05
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I always thought Earthsea was supposed to be the gold standard for non-problematic fantasy, but I still have those books sitting unread so I can't personally vouch. Hm, maybe I'll start that tonight.
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Dec 7, 2021 00:18
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If you are willing to separate art from artist because there have been some plausible allegations, pretty much anything by China Mieville.
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Dec 7, 2021 00:38
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I occasionally see the Japanese tourist trope come up even as late as 2000's Disney Channel shows. It's rarely hateful but often feels disrespectful. I wasn't around for the 80's but it's always a gaggle of Japanese people blindly following a tour guide and mindlessly snapping pictures. Maybe it's true to life but to me it invokes a stereotype of conformity and herd mentality among Asians. Like in Forgetting Sarah Marshall the joke is that they're taking photos of random cutlery.
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Dec 7, 2021 01:00
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Kevin DuBrow posted:I occasionally see the Japanese tourist trope come up even as late as 2000's Disney Channel shows. It's rarely hateful but often feels disrespectful. I wasn't around for the 80's but it's always a gaggle of Japanese people blindly following a tour guide and mindlessly snapping pictures. Maybe it's true to life but to me it invokes a stereotype of conformity and herd mentality among Asians. Like in Forgetting Sarah Marshall the joke is that they're taking photos of random cutlery. IIRC there were a lot of Japanese tourists visiting foreign countries in the 80s before the bubble burst. My guess is that the large groups thing was either because the vacations were prepackaged tour groups or it was some sort of "We don't know the language super-well so if we go in a big group we should be able to figure it out and at least we'll be safer" kind of idea. But I'm guessing it was mostly the packaged tour thing.
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Dec 7, 2021 01:12
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Ror posted:I always thought Earthsea was supposed to be the gold standard for non-problematic fantasy, but I still have those books sitting unread so I can't personally vouch. The first one is pretty good. The others are also fine but maybe not as compelling. The last one…I dunno, it felt like it was written by someone else and had no relation to anything else. Absolutely bizarre
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Dec 7, 2021 01:17
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There used to be a Chinese place near me that several times a week would get literal busloads of (presumably) Chinese tourists. As soon as Covid travel restrictions hit that place folded up. Tourists in general seem to travel in packs. At least I've seldom seen loan tourists of any nationality.
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Dec 7, 2021 02:18
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Kevin DuBrow posted:I occasionally see the Japanese tourist trope come up even as late as 2000's Disney Channel shows. It's rarely hateful but often feels disrespectful. I wasn't around for the 80's but it's always a gaggle of Japanese people blindly following a tour guide and mindlessly snapping pictures. Maybe it's true to life but to me it invokes a stereotype of conformity and herd mentality among Asians. Like in Forgetting Sarah Marshall the joke is that they're taking photos of random cutlery. there are some aspects of the Japanese Tourist trope that ring true, but I have found it has more to do with them interacting with wildlife in other countries. A friend of mine has been living in Japan for the past 4 years and he has told me that there aren't really parks like we think of in North America, which also means that even simple wildlife like deer are a huge loving deal, especially if you've lived your whole life in Tokyo. Now when you've got things like taking photos of literally every little thing? You can make that about a tourist of any nationality, making them specifically Japanese or Asian does feel cheap and ultimately something you don't need to do anymore. Kinda like the call center bit from the first Transformers movie, or those twin Autobots in 2 and 3
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Dec 7, 2021 03:29
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Taking photos also ties into Japanese gift giving culture where you can share a present (the photo). Photo culture in Japan developed in the post-war period and is consequently super hosed up.
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Dec 7, 2021 03:34
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Vitruvian Manic posted:Photo culture in Japan developed in the post-war period and is consequently super hosed up. Curious to hear more about this because I'm not exactly sure what you're driving at. Aside from horny postwar photogs like Daido Moriyama, but I'm not sure I'd label him "hosed up".
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Dec 7, 2021 03:37
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Losing a colonialist war and then being colonized so old norms are destroyed and replaced by aping a colonizing force is a pretty hosed up context for an aspect of your culture to develop. Folding that humiliation into a new nationalist is the sort of "making lemonaid from lemons" that, on an individual level would be a hosed up fetish. On a national level it is just weird. Hence, taking photos is part of japanese gift giving culture where you share part of your experience but also weirdly extreme and hosed up. The whole post war period before the economic boom was a weird time. The economic boom was also a weird time but more of a return to normal. Like, even the context used to discuss how weird Japan is has colonial sexual exploitation vibes. Vitruvian Manic has a new favorite as of 04:40 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 04:35
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Comfort women?
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Dec 7, 2021 04:48
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Vitruvian Manic posted:Losing a colonialist war and then being colonized so old norms are destroyed and replaced by aping a colonizing force is a pretty hosed up context for an aspect of your culture to develop. Folding that humiliation into a new nationalist is the sort of "making lemonaid from lemons" that, on an individual level would be a hosed up fetish. On a national level it is just weird. Really trying to understand this, can you elucidate a bit more on how the first paragraph connects to the second?
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Dec 7, 2021 05:22
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Midcentury Americans also fetishized photographs as a way of sharing an experience, as seen in the recurring comic storytelling trope of someone being bored by having to sit through a slideshow of their friends’ vacation. There’s also the image of the Ugly American, who has a lot in common with the 80s Japanese tourist trope, except that the ugly American was also ruining the places he went with his boorishness and hedonism. America, as essentially boorish and hedonistic, can’t be ruined by tourism that way, though. I guess 80s Americans were just offended by hearing a language other than English or seeing a culture that isn’t America.
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Dec 7, 2021 05:30
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I guess 80s Americans were just offended by hearing a language other than English or seeing a culture that isn’t America. Pretty much, yes. Though I think a lot of it can be a 'first generation tourist' thing, when a country gets enough of a middle class to have a large amount of visible tourists visiting affordable spots that are new and exotic to them.
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Dec 7, 2021 05:46
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