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Cacafuego posted:I’m currently working a contract job for a vendor (V1) of a pharma company (P1). I had gotten a direct hire offer from another pharma company (P2) and I started this week. Based on your post, why would you want to work for P1? Unless they're offering way more than P2 or something.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:whats the reason you don't want to work for P2? i don't seen any resason in there Sorry, maybe I hosed that up - I would rather work for P2 than P1. Hadlock posted:I would tell V1/P1 you'll tentatively accept their offer, pending salary negotiations. Normally I'd say you already burnt that bridge don't go there, but as a direct hire for P1 you're in a very good position to pick up a principal pharma guru title and paycheck to go along with it, especially if you're critical to their success of some multi billion dollar pharma project Can try this and see what happens. I was just worried about being “that guy” that forced them into buying out my contract sooner. In the hiring process, V1 was very clear to say that there were no guarantees of getting hired by P1. Also, I’m only a month into training at P1, so I haven’t done anything substantial yet there. Chaotic Flame posted:Based on your post, why would you want to work for P1? Unless they're offering way more than P2 or something. Yeah, I must’ve hosed up my explanation (see above) - between both, I’d rather work for P2.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:22
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I still don't quite understand the situation, but if your main aim is to get more money, interview for whichever the other one is and see where you get. It sounds like you have already started at the better company though.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:34
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knox_harrington posted:I still don't quite understand the situation, but if your main aim is to get more money, interview for whichever the other one is and see where you get. Yeah, my bad, I didn’t explain it well. Basically, I like everything about P2 more and would prefer to work there, but if P1 countered with enough of a premium on top of P2’s offer and the money was enticing enough, would I be on P1’s shitlist because I forced their hand early?
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Dec 8, 2021 00:48
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Yes. You'll have to decide what is and isn't worth it. e: assuming I'm understanding the scenario correctly, which I admit I am still not confident of.
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Dec 8, 2021 01:08
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I don't think so, you're a contractor and they should very much understand the volatility of those positions. If they think you're worth retaining then they'll make an offer, and it seems like it would take Texa$ money for you to accept so ask for it. Otherwise you have an offer for the position you actually want so you're in a really good position.
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Dec 8, 2021 01:09
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Parallelwoody posted:it would take Texa$ money Yeah I mean worst case scenario you say no, and your old boss looks good for trying to retain you Best case scenario you buy a much bigger house and a sports car that used to hang as a poster on your wall as a kid
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Dec 8, 2021 01:24
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assuming P2 offer is good I'd probably just move on over to P2
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Dec 8, 2021 15:51
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From reddit AITA. Why you should never take a counteroffer, as told by the rear end in a top hat in charge. AITA for not promoting a long time employee? quote:Greetings r/AITA, I've run into a recent dilemma with regards to my business. I, (57, M) own a private equity firm. We're no Warburg, but we're pretty well off. Some background: For the past 20 or so years, I've had a trusted second in command, let's call him M, who recently retired, which created a vacancy in the company. Technically, the next highest ranking person is a senior executive, let's call him J(M, 51). He's been with the company for around 12 years, and I hadn't have any issues with him prior to March of this year.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:30
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Dik Hz posted:Nepotism Lol “Nepotism” posted:I've said it before in my replies, but I value integrity and trust over all. Not only is B my son, but I feel like the trust I had with J was damaged by his open attempts to look for other jobs while still with our firm. I know J's time with the company is significant, but I really feel like the events in March have hurt my trust in J, which is something I just can't allow for my 2nd in command. Lmao ”Nepotism” posted:I didn't hold it against him at the time, but combined with his recent behavior, it's clear to me that he was more concerned with his position and salary than genuinely helping the company.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:43
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Yes, but against all that you have to balance the fact that his 25 year old son graduated from a VERY prestigious university.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:47
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Honestly, that sounds a lot more like a guy trying to justify nepotism than someone getting passed over for promotion because he was looking for other work.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:56
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i like "experiencing financial instability"
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Dec 8, 2021 19:56
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It's blatantly him trying to blame everyone else for not appreciating nepotism. Kind of wonder if asking him if he thinks maybe his lovely decidion here was guided by him getting handed the company in similarly unqualified circumstances would result in an entertaining response.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:59
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So I've been trying to get an offer out of a company for a few days now. When I spoke to the hiring manager and their boss they told me that an offer had already been approved and they weren't sure why it had not already been sent to me. Since then the HR person spent days trying to get me to provide compensation expectation. I finally sent HR this:Sent to HR posted:My understanding from (Hiring Manager) and (Boss of Hiring Manager) is that the offer is already approved, so it isn't clear to me what this number will be used for. Can you please provide (company's) expectations so I get an idea what you're talking about. HR posted:Hi Boot and Rally – (Hiring Manager) and I are working to put an offer together so we can then obtain the approvals. If you do not wish to share your expectation, that’s okay. It’s in the candidate’s best interest that we ask for a comp expectation so we can then work to meet/exceed the expectation. We will respectfully proceed without this information. I can't help but think that "respectfully" is not a good sign. I'm not broken up about it, but it is odd. Certainly not going to list a number now. Keep in mind they have not discussed benefits at all.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:49
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Boot and Rally posted:I can't help but think that "respectfully" is not a good sign. I'm not broken up about it, but it is odd. Certainly not going to list a number now. Keep in mind they have not discussed benefits at all. HR people are sometimes just jackwagons. Last time I changed jobs, this frigging lady I was never going to personally interact with after that moment absolutely insisted that I start the first possible Wednesday instead of the following Monday. Still have not idea why it mattered so much to her; it wasn't a different month or anything.
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Dec 9, 2021 21:34
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Magnetic North posted:Last time I changed jobs, this frigging lady I was never going to personally interact with after that moment absolutely insisted that I start the first possible Wednesday instead of the following Monday. Still have not idea why it mattered so much to her; it wasn't a different month or anything. Over the years, I've lost one or two hires due to an exec slowing the process down and then eliminating the position. And seen several more.
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Dec 9, 2021 21:47
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The HR goon is back in touch, I need to actually apply for the job in Workday (spit) and they also want evidence for my signing bonus:quote:Our Total Rewards team is currently working on an offer proposal for you. I guess I should just send the redacted documents. I kinda feel like just saying "sorry, $X is the price" Or maybe I should go with "let's see the salary offer first and we can discuss my signing bonus after that"
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Dec 10, 2021 20:06
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I would definitely tell them, professionally but firmly, no I am not sharing those documents, $X is the price, and if they walk they walk. gently caress that attitude.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:12
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knox_harrington posted:The HR goon is back in touch I was wondering how you knew they were on the forums, and then…oh
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Dec 11, 2021 04:36
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knox_harrington posted:The HR goon is back in touch, I need to actually apply for the job in Workday (spit) and they also want evidence for my signing bonus: I am not clear, CAN you redact the paperwork to the point where your current salary is obscured? If so, then that is probably the best bet. They are offering a signing bonus to cover RSUs, needing an actual number on that doesn't strike me as unreasonable and pushing back on them makes would make me think the candidate might be bluffing about the RSUs, which isn't a good look. Alternatively you can say "I can provide the information but I'd like to negotiate salary before sharing my full financial history", but I think I'd do one of those two rather than telling them "I have an RSU number but I am firmly telling you I cannot produce any proof of that", which might come across as dodgy and sink your offer.
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Dec 11, 2021 04:55
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I respect the hell out of you Lockback, and am happy to acknowledge that your advice is more practically sound than mine. Demanding I (as the applicant) give you my financial documentation to prove I'm not a liar isn't a great way to start off our relationship, either. And in the realm of "it makes me think...", it makes me think you (as the hiring company) are trying to coax as much of my current compensation info out of me as you can before giving me an offer. It would be a lot more palatable if the company were at least to say "here's the salary we're offering, and as for the RSUs please verify and we're willing to offer a commensurate bonus up to $X with verification" rather than demanding the latter before giving the former. But I suppose that if you say "I need $X because Y" instead of just saying "I need $X" you have to expect to be challenged to prove it, and RSUs are a pretty specific case. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Dec 11, 2021 |
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Dec 11, 2021 05:05
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knox_harrington posted:The HR goon is back in touch, I need to actually apply for the job in Workday (spit) and they also want evidence for my signing bonus: I think you’re probably going to end up having to produce the document if you want them to pay an outsized signing bonus, but unless I’m missing something here you should definitely do this first.
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Dec 11, 2021 05:21
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As the (I think) resident HR goon, I haven't dealt with that type of compensation, but I do think it's fair to ask for some type of proof as to what you want covered so we can make this hire work. Salary wise, of course that should be worked out first and gently caress off if you want insight into that prior to an offer. Tell them to work out the base pay first and then you'll go with the rest maybe?
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Dec 11, 2021 05:21
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Eric the Mauve posted:
This is where I think they are. Of you are explicitly using your rsu's as a negotiating tactic I don't think it's ridiculous to want to confirm that, specifically because of the situation that's been presented. If they were looking for past salary info you can tell them off, but the fact that this is specific makes it a bit different. Agreed that asking to get salary figured out first is much better and doesn't strike me as unprofessional at all to insist that.
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Dec 11, 2021 05:43
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I guess I don't understand why on the one hand we would never disclose evidence of salary, but bonus and long term incentive (which are standard parts of compensation in this sector) are different. Why is one taken on trust and one not? They are essentially saying "I don't believe you".
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Dec 11, 2021 08:29
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knox_harrington posted:I guess I don't understand why on the one hand we would never disclose evidence of salary, but bonus and long term incentive (which are standard parts of compensation in this sector) are different. Because companies have to pay a salary.
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Dec 11, 2021 10:40
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The difference here is k_h already disclosed the bonus/vestment, because it provided some leverage to do so. Now the company is asking for proof. Another situation that might be similar is if you're making a move where salary isnt a motivator to move, say you are moving geographies and you feel like your previous salary is a good leverage point (I generally wouldn't suggest doing this, but its not a ridiculous scenario). In that case, if you push on a company to "pay me X because I know it's my market rate", you might need to show your salary to prove that. This negotiating by proving an assertion. Basically disclosing part/all of your comp as a leverage point means you might need to actually show what you disclosed. Basically, I don't think it's out of line for them to want to see some proof of this before an offer, I wouldn't say it's a huge flag like I would if a company is insisting to see a pay stub before negotiating salary, because the disclosure was k_h's thing. I think either redacting other salary info (if possible) or politely asking to negotiate salary first is very reasonable. A firm "I won't show you anything but I still need the bonus" might make them back away from the bonus or even torpedo an offer here, which I don't see as a win, moral victory or no. I am assuming k_h said something like "I need a 60k bonus to match my March bonus" and they are just looking for something that says "k_h is totally getting a 60k bonus". If there's more to it then that may change the situation.
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Dec 11, 2021 15:43
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The HR goon could also be asking for documentation to make her job easier and not because the person you're actually negotiating against is asking for it. That they're asking to apply via Workday supports this hypothesis. If it makes you feel any better, you know you're close to their max number when they start doing poo poo like this. That information might be useful.
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Dec 11, 2021 15:52
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I would put off the bonus specifics before you lock in salary to avoid them thinking “we’re already paying you a very high bonus therefore we can anchor a bit lower on salary”.
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Dec 11, 2021 16:12
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My reason for not wanting to share the bonus award and RSU schedule is to avoid giving any clue to salary at all*. When I provide the redacted documents they will inevitably have the bonus $ and RSU $ separately, and even if you can't really tell the salary from the bonus it sets limits on it, and they will try to interpret the amount. So I agree the best course of action here is to shelve further discussion on the starting bonus until my salary is pinned down. (Really, thanks all for the help and advice, it's super helpful to discuss different options) *Well, that and I also think anti-employee HR practices like this can gently caress right off, but I don't want to chuck this offer away.
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Dec 11, 2021 18:36
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Boot and Rally posted:So I've been trying to get an offer out of a company for a few days now. When I spoke to the hiring manager and their boss they told me that an offer had already been approved and they weren't sure why it had not already been sent to me. Since then the HR person spent days trying to get me to provide compensation expectation. I finally sent HR this: So HR got back to me with an offer. It is ~10% raise including retirement and other stuff, less time off, it is customer facing (I don't do this now) and wouldn't be managing people (I currently only manage 1). It is a move to a much larger field. Maybe 10,000 times larger. My suspicion is I am basically stuck in my current job, so the new job has upsides. The goal is chances to actually advance, but this particular role is not an advance. I need to talk to the hiring manager directly about how advancing works. If I'm going to be stuck in that role (I approach things as promises are worth nothing) then a 33% raise and keeping my time off might do it. Boot and Rally fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 03:31
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I would definitely put a huge premium on my price for any job that would be customer facing but that might just be me. Those words make me shudder. My brain reads "customer facing" as "basically enslaved to salespeople".
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Dec 12, 2021 03:58
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How do companies get the stocks for RSUs? Buy stock or issue new ones?
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Dec 12, 2021 06:16
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downout posted:How do companies get the stocks for RSUs? Buy stock or issue new ones? I’d think it’d be the former as the latter would make existing stockholders unhappy.
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Dec 12, 2021 07:03
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Boot and Rally posted:So HR got back to me with an offer. It is ~10% raise including retirement and other stuff, less time off, it is customer facing (I don't do this now) and wouldn't be managing people (I currently only manage 1). It is a move to a much larger field. Maybe 10,000 times larger. My suspicion is I am basically stuck in my current job, so the new job has upsides. The goal is chances to actually advance, but this particular role is not an advance. I need to talk to the hiring manager directly about how advancing works. If I'm going to be stuck in that role (I approach things as promises are worth nothing) then a 33% raise and keeping my time off might do it. This sounds awful and unless you have some strongly understated pros, this seems like a pass
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Dec 12, 2021 07:11
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The HR goon is now being really pushy about getting my Workday application RIGHT NOW. HR is basically workplace cancer.
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Dec 13, 2021 09:45
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My one-year jobiversary is coming up. Any advice on asking for a raise? (Programmer, small city, company is in industry, very chill generally [my division's org structure is fairly flat] and appears to be interested in retaining me for a long period of time.)
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Dec 13, 2021 10:00
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knox_harrington posted:The HR goon is now being really pushy about getting my Workday application RIGHT NOW. HR is basically workplace cancer. There's probably a deadline of Dec 15 to process all new Q1 people without special sign off The HR goon has known about this cut off since Sept 30 but due to taking three hour lunches and leaving at 3:30 every day forgot about it until just now 
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Dec 13, 2021 10:04
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Quackles posted:My one-year jobiversary is coming up. Any advice on asking for a raise? Wish I had some! Everywhere I've worked, the annual raise was a metric'd-to-hell-and-back 2.5%-3.5% window, because gently caress you, that's why. If they decided to adjust the salary-band window based on market analysis? Welp, first they'd apply your raise, THEN make the adjustment to your pay if you were outside the new band window. Naturally, this means that most of my raises so far in my career have been market adjustments; even in the best of times, my "merit" raise would have been a COL adjustment. What I'm trying to say is good luck to you, and if something works out, definitely let us know! But try not to be too disappointed if there is not a good answer to be had 
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