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Conspiratiorist posted:Back to reality: i don't think that was ever gonna happen
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Dec 8, 2021 20:03
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:god i love our media  Wholly Chao
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Dec 8, 2021 20:06
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Rinkles posted:i don't think that was ever gonna happen Oh me neither but here we had more than a few people calling the troop movements a bluff because Putin wouldn't risk a shooting war with the US. Well the US has made it publicly clear it won't get into a shooting war with Russia over Ukraine.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:07
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I look forward to the US losing its loving mind in 2085 when Mexico signs a military cooperation agreement with the PRC or some poo poo. NO THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:14
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Punkin Spunkin posted:I look forward to the US losing its loving mind in 2085 when Mexico signs a military cooperation agreement with the PRC or some poo poo. no need for hypotheticals, the US literally glassed a tiny island in the 1980s because it wanted to be neutral in the cold war lol
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Dec 8, 2021 20:22
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Conspiratiorist posted:Oh me neither but here we had more than a few people calling the troop movements a bluff because Putin wouldn't risk a shooting war with the US. Nor should we. The US has no treaty obligations to Ukraine, and in fact Ukraine attempting to be included in those treaty obligations is a major reason why they're about to be invaded. SHOULD we militarily support Ukraine with boots on the ground? Sure, in principle, but any conflict between nuclear armed superpowers is a losing combination and frankly I don't feel like being incinerated in thermonuclear fire because we tried to defend Kyiv and sparked World War 3. If a NATO member is attacked I'm going to be incinerated anyway, and it doesn't make much difference whether or not my incineration is because we have to fulfill Article 5 obligations or not. I'm still dead after all. It goes back to the old question that de Gaulle brought up when pursuing French nuclear weaponry: will the US president trade New York for Paris? No, that can't be relied on, so we must secure our own defense through nuclear arms. Ukraine gave theirs up for a vague promise of having their territorial integrity and borders respected, so if anything the lesson here is that any aspiring nuclear nation should never disarm or you'll get invaded and wish you hadn't. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 20:26
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Not that this would shock anyone, but a former air traffic controller appears to confirm that the Ryanair plane forced landing was, indeed, an operation of Belarusian secret services. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/world/europe/belarus-poland-ryanair-plane-dissident.html I don't know what info he could share, but it's definitely a real guy. At the time it was reported that right after the incident he took some time off to visit family in Georgia and wasn't available to comment, and then just disappeared. No Belarusian officials commented on his whereabouts again, so everyone thought he was in some KGB prison, but I guess he managed to make it to Poland.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:46
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https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1468206078940823554
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Dec 8, 2021 20:47
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HonorableTB posted:
It wasn't really a choice. If Ukraine tried to keep its weapons it would be treated like north korea.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:54
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Conspiratiorist posted:Oh me neither but here we had more than a few people calling the troop movements a bluff because Putin wouldn't risk a shooting war with the US.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:12
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Rinkles posted:i don't think that was ever gonna happen Yeah no poo poo but I thought you weren't supposed to say that out loud
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Dec 8, 2021 21:29
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Vasukhani posted:It wasn't really a choice. If Ukraine tried to keep its weapons it would be treated like north korea. That's possible, but on the other hand, North Korea will be an independent and sovereign state for the foreseeable future. Their external security is guaranteed and they're safe from invasion, and their nuclear weapons deter others from even making punitive strikes. Had Ukraine kept theirs, they'd still have Crimea and wouldn't be facing an existential threat to their sovereignty right now. If Ukraine didn't go full isolationist and get hopped up on Slav Juche then it's likely the rest of Europe would be more willing to work with them. But all that is neither here nor there and Ukraine is probably facing annexation or a forced puppeting ala Belarus within ten years
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Dec 8, 2021 22:10
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They're also isolated, poor, and stuck under the rule of a cartoon tinpot dictator
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Dec 8, 2021 22:25
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Just lend-lease them a few nukes. No American boots on the ground, problem solved.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:28
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aphid_licker posted:They're also isolated, poor, and stuck under the rule of a cartoon tinpot dictator Hey, I never said they had it good. I said they were independent and safe from external threats. They were isolated, poor, and under the rule of a tinpot dictator before they had nukes too, it's just a whole lot harder to actually help those people now because the only way North Korea goes away is if it collapses internally. Unfortuntely, internal collapse also means that the nukes might be unsecured and wooo we're off to the Cool Zone
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Dec 8, 2021 22:54
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Hannibal Rex posted:Just lend-lease them a few nukes. No American boots on the ground, problem solved. That's honestly not a halfway bad idea at this point. Putin must be stopped.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:08
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aphid_licker posted:They're also isolated, poor, and stuck under the rule of a cartoon tinpot dictator Two out of three ain't bad!
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Dec 9, 2021 00:54
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How are u posted:That's honestly not a halfway bad idea at this point. Putin must be stopped. i cannot emphasize enough how dumb giving nukes to ukraine would be lmao
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Dec 9, 2021 01:45
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i say swears online posted:i cannot emphasize enough how dumb giving nukes to We should've let them keep a couple, regardless, if we're not even going to bother to honor even the gentlemen's agreement we made with them.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:57
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Can't they just ask Putin for theirs back since he broke the deal
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Dec 9, 2021 01:58
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VitalSigns posted:Can't they just ask Putin for theirs back since he broke the deal Yeah, and you get free delivery! Either via the claimed 100 megaton Unmanned Torpedo or the Nuclear Cruise Missile they are perfecting!
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Dec 9, 2021 01:59
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CommieGIR posted:We should've let them keep a couple, regardless, if we're not even going to bother to honor even the gentlemen's agreement we made with them. The gentlemen's agreement not to invade? Budapest said nothing about defending Ukraine.
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Dec 9, 2021 02:02
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Vasukhani posted:The gentlemen's agreement not to invade? Budapest said nothing about defending Ukraine. Ah, good to see you finally got an account Mister Putin.
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Dec 9, 2021 02:07
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in lighter news, sledkom is on the case to investigate the corrupting, pro-Nazi, anti-police activities of Noize MC and Oxxxymiron https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/09/a-satire-for-our-time
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Dec 9, 2021 02:54
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God himself commands the Hungarians to send troops to Ukraine to stop the Slavic unification. It cannot happen or all of Europe will descend into 1000 years of Russian dashcam videos
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Dec 9, 2021 04:09
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CommieGIR posted:Ah, good to see you finally got an account Mister Putin. http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf read the actual text and tell me where it says anyone must defend ukraine
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Dec 9, 2021 05:52
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Vasukhani posted:http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf Must :! SHOULD
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Dec 9, 2021 06:00
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HonorableTB posted:Must :! SHOULD lol
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Dec 9, 2021 07:13
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lol, I forgot all about Lavrov claiming Russia didn't violate the Memo because "the only obligation was to not attack with nukes", even though it's blatantly obvious to anyone who reads it that "not violating territorial sovereignty" is literally the first obligation.
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Dec 9, 2021 07:53
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"they've discussed options" is only the tiniest step up from a total nothingburger, we have plans in case of alien invasion or, worse, war with Canada Have you ever looked at a map? Canada is, like, right there. When was the last time Russians burned down the D.C.?
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Dec 9, 2021 08:32
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I doubt very much that the world would have let Ukraine keep the nukes. They would have needed time to refurbish them and remove the PAL systems and in the mean time every western country would have enacted sanctions against Ukraine on Russia's request and with Russia itself threatening to just come and get them by force. I don't know how fast you can rebuild an ICBM, but probably not fast enough. Unity of command of the Soviet nuclear arsenal was a huge issue for everyone. Nobody wanted a conflict scenario between the Soviet republics(like it happened with Yugoslavia later)but with nukes on the table. Or nuclear proliferation for that matter, Soviet nukes ending up all over the place due to corruption, etc.
GABA ghoul fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 10:21
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While I agree with you, it should be noted that Ukraine is where a lot of Soviet ICBMs were built. Making the rockets would be the easy part for them.
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Dec 9, 2021 10:54
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Do not get on any flights that fly over Ukraine, Belarus or Russia. Chimp with grenade alert status red https://twitter.com/CITeam_ru/status/1468684037057351690?s=20
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Dec 9, 2021 12:01
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All the nuke chat reminds me Lukashenko is sitting on a large supply of HEU and weapons-grade plutonium that for whatever reason Belarus kept when they turned over their nukes to Russia.
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Dec 9, 2021 12:09
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In case you’ve ever lost night’s sleep over COVID-19 disinformation in Latvia, there now is an article exploring the subject in English. https://en.rebaltica.lv/2021/12/who-are-the-main-disinformation-spreaders-in-latvia-and-how-do-they-support-themselves/
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Dec 9, 2021 15:30
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cinci zoo sniper posted:While I agree with you, it should be noted that Ukraine is where a lot of Soviet ICBMs were built. Making the rockets would be the easy part for them. I feel like there are several hundred pages missing between your first and second sentences
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Dec 9, 2021 18:43
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i say swears online posted:I feel like there are several hundred pages missing between your first and second sentences I honestly meant to just say “fun fact: Ukrainians historically have been good at building ICBMs”. A lot of people think it only exported wheat and lard.
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Dec 9, 2021 18:53
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If ukraine had nukes the US and Russia wouldve iraq'd it together in 2003 lol doubt they would've ever had command and control
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Dec 9, 2021 18:56
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aphid_licker posted:They're also isolated, poor, and stuck under the rule of a cartoon tinpot dictator Russia or Ukraine?
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Dec 9, 2021 19:27
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:All the nuke chat reminds me Lukashenko is sitting on a large supply of HEU and weapons-grade plutonium that for whatever reason Belarus kept when they turned over their nukes to Russia. First time I hear about it. He really honest to god laments that we gave up the nukes. If he could create one, he would have. E: and when he said he preserved the nuke silos that was an outright lie. Zerkalo posted photos from their archives, they are in utter ruin except one that was turned into a mushroom farm. Sekenr fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 21:49
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