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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Repeated vaccine dosing at increasingly long intervals providing better and more durable protection than the same number of doses closer together doses is pretty common. e.g. CDC's DTaP schedule is doses at 2 months -> 4 months -> 6 months -> 15 months -> 4 years -> 19 years -> then every 10 years. If you shove all the childhood doses earlier it doesn't work as well. Pfizer's booster EUA's main plot is:  from a study where they took 10000 people (mostly 10-12months after 2nd dose), then did blinded 50-50 booster/placebo. Boosted people got infected less (7 vs 124 as of 2months in), and there were no real safety adverse effects, so there's not really a reason not to do it besides cost/availability. Pretty much nobody in the study was <6 months out (20 people total), so no direct evidence there of if dosing earlier would have improved anything for them. Slides As best I know, the extra dose for immunosuppressed people was based on antibody studies, not a controlled one. The one I know of off the top of my head is a GI disease immunosuppressant one where people on some agents had more-or-less one dose offset antibody production (very little after dose 1, typical dose 1 levels after dose 2).
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Dec 9, 2021 05:50
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Haven't looked at the actual models, but I assume the rationale is something like the amount of virus neutralized per unit time is dependent on the concentration of virus, the concentration of antibody, and a binding coefficient - basically a chemical reaction - and a gross simplification. If so, lowering the binding coefficient doesn't mean the antibodies won't eventually bind the virus, just that it takes longer. You can also compensate by increasing the concentration of antibodies - hence a booster shot increasing your Ab titer. The risk would be that the binding drops so much that the virus out-replicates the body's ability to crank out antibodies - breakthrough - until new, more specific Ab to the mutated virus show up. Anyone knowing any links to actual models appreciated.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:31
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Rust Martialis posted:Haven't looked at the actual models, but I assume the rationale is something like the amount of virus neutralized per unit time is dependent on the concentration of virus, the concentration of antibody, and a binding coefficient - basically a chemical reaction - and a gross simplification. ehh kind of, it's complicated Also worth pointing out that while neutralizing antibodies are certainly very important, there are also partially neutralizing and non-neutralizing antibodies. The lab and computer simulation studies definitely suggest vaccines won't work as well against infection in Omicron.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:41
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:can bench press 400+ lbs Correct. You have no figures, so that post was unjustifiably confident.
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Dec 9, 2021 11:37
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So when we get to infinity infectiousness does it just go retroactive and we've always had covid?
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Dec 9, 2021 12:53
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Regarde Aduck posted:So when we get to infinity infectiousness does it just go retroactive and we've always had covid? Omicron can already travel at speed of light through communities, so yes time travel is in play here
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Dec 9, 2021 13:19
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Heard something recently along the lines of "N95 are respirators and require training in order to achieve proper fit, and do not work for people with facial hair. Therefore surgical masks are better for most people, especially those with facial hair" That . . . doesn't seem entirely right to me though. I would think that an N95 used by an untrained person with a beard - though this assumes the user in question is attempting to achieve the best fit possible, given the circumstances - would still offer better protection than a surgical mask, because those seem to be pretty open on the sides. Am I missing something here?
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Dec 9, 2021 13:55
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Zarin posted:Heard something recently along the lines of "N95 are respirators and require training in order to achieve proper fit, and do not work for people with facial hair. Therefore surgical masks are better for most people, especially those with facial hair" Even if you assume this argument is correct the obvious next step is to get one of those straps that frames your surgical mask and closed off most of the gaps in the seal but weirdly people making this argument don’t do that obvious follow up.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:16
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Zarin posted:Heard something recently along the lines of "N95 are respirators and require training in order to achieve proper fit, and do not work for people with facial hair. Therefore surgical masks are better for most people, especially those with facial hair" You’re not missing anything, other than the context that the people making these statements are also missing. Respirators have historically been used occupationally. Workplace safety authorities have quite prudently decided that, when the conditions of the jobsite demand it, employers have to provide personal protective equipment and instruct employees in its use. This includes fit testing. That’s a great policy, much better than making employees buy and bring their own equipment, and better than simply throwing it at them and telling them “figure it out”. You know how many people wear their masks under their noses in this pandemic? It sure would be awful if people in the absestos abatement industry wore their respirators like that. That’s why fit testing is required for respirators: it’s because they are to be used in hazardous environments and people will get hurt if their PPE doesn’t fit properly. It’s not rocket science to wear respirators properly. Amateurs did it all the time for DIY projects before the pandemic. It’s just something that enough people will fail to do that it saves some lives if OSHA says that employers have to provide specific training and procedures for them. The logical conclusion of this isn’t “no one should wear respirators off of the jobsite”, it’s “in the worst respiratory pandemic in living memory, public health agencies should supply the public with respirators and provide training in proper use”.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:16
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Unless you're jogging or lifting weights in an N95 the fit you get is likely drastically better than any mask I have a thin beard and get a pretty good fit check using an elastometric respirator (with fit check valve) and the fit on my N95s feels about the same, especially if you inhale deeply Fit checking for exhale is lol but N95 fits pretty good out of the box once I adjust the nose wire
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Dec 9, 2021 14:50
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So having seen a few studies start coming out around Omicron and the vaccine effectiveness against them, the refrain seems to be that 2 doses of the vaccine see reduced effectiveness against Omicron, but boosters make a big difference. This is good news for my wife and I, since we got our boosters a few weeks ago, but the thing I can't find information on yet is how the 5-11 crowd will be impacted. My kids got their second shots just under two weeks ago (Saturday is the big "fully vaccinated" day for them) but how is that going to hold up against Omicron? My Google skills have either failed me, or the information isn't there yet. If anyone knows anything, I'd appreciate a link. The news about increased hospitalization of kids is making me raise an eyebrow about schools staying open throughout this thing.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:59
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Hadlock posted:Unless you're jogging or lifting weights in an N95 the fit you get is likely drastically better than any mask Just went back to the gym (great timing!) and yeah, the n95 was not happy, especially when I got sweatier guess it's time to look at 3M's vast catalogue!
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Dec 9, 2021 15:06
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Barry Foster posted:Just went back to the gym (great timing!) and yeah, the n95 was not happy, especially when I got sweatier Check out the click lock elastometric respirators from 3M, I just picked one up with the P100 filters seems to work great They're like $20 on Amazon and another $25 for the filter cartridges, also they're new enough/complex enough that there's probably no counterfeits on the market yet (seal check button helps with that too)
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Dec 9, 2021 15:10
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Hadlock posted:Check out the click lock elastometric respirators from 3M, I just picked one up with the P100 filters seems to work great I will, thanks! I'd probably get it from an actual PPE shop like Arco anyway, but good to know
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Dec 9, 2021 15:13
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Zarin posted:Heard something recently along the lines of "N95 are respirators and require training in order to achieve proper fit, and do not work for people with facial hair. Therefore surgical masks are better for most people, especially those with facial hair" It's a condoms are effective 99% of the time if worn properly thing. An N95, if you stood in a room full of drop dead instantly dust could guarantee a level of protection X for Y percent of the particles of Z size and that can be legally regulated to be true. If you start wearing them weird, taking them on and off, letting them slip around, putting your fingers in them, flexing your face to make gaps, etc, it no longer is the regulated values. And realistically if you were in drop dead instantly dust would guarantee exactly zero percent protection. In practice it'll probably be some helpful. But it's like if you said you half wear condoms, no one can tell you what your protection level might be then, it could be 50% or it could be exactly zero if you mean you wear them at first take them off to cum. And it definitely isn't 99% anymore.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:21
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So wear the respirator with the condom and don't cum, got it.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:29
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People can also just shave their loving neckbeards
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Dec 9, 2021 15:31
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New East Bay omicron outbreak details: Fully vaccinated, boosted Kaiser staff got COVID after out-of-state wedding https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Omicron-outbreak-from-out-of-state-wedding-tied-16685845.php quote:Eleven of the 12 confirmed COVID-19 cases tied to an omicron outbreak in the East Bay last week are among fully vaccinated and boosted staff members at Kaiser Permanente’s Oakland Medical Center, according to a spokesperson for the hospital. quote:Kaiser said that the patients are isolated at home with mild symptoms, “which is consistent with the reported severity experienced by other people who are vaccinated and contracted this illness.” Mild symptoms are of course good, but this does point to more sustained widespread life/economic disruption thanks to quarantining and isolating.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:37
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SpartanIvy posted:People can also just shave their loving neckbeards My beard is very nice 
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Dec 9, 2021 15:41
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SpartanIvy posted:People can also just shave their loving neckbeards Chin straps are more of an issue than a neckbeard, probably. A true only-on-the-neck beard might not get in the way of an N95, depending on brand and fit. Edit: I'm pretty sure I'm going back to having a van dyke instead of a full beard, now that I'm having to go out into the world more and want my N95 to actually work.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:43
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Got my booster today, my kid got his second Pfizer on Tuesday, the wife is getting her booster on Monday. SUCK MY DICK, UNICORN. In other news, the pediatric dose of Pfizer is apparently in short supply in my part of TX, which either means that lots of people are getting it or it's another supply chain casualty. Hoping for the former.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:56
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brugroffil posted:New East Bay omicron outbreak details: Fully vaccinated, boosted Kaiser staff got COVID after out-of-state wedding Which is needful, as overleaning on leaky vax is a recipe for disaster long term.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:03
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California has a vaccine mandate for healthcare so by definition a vast majority working at a hospital would always be near 100% breakthrough cases, just no matter what. Like Kaiser medical has 250,000 employees. If 11 breakthrough cases is no big deal or apocalyptic kinda just depends on the scale of how many people were exposed. (which is probably not 12 or 250,000)
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Dec 9, 2021 16:36
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The 11 cases came from their attendance at an out-of-state wedding, not from work. Though the article doesn't mention how many employees attended this wedding, it's hard to imagine there would have been dozens traveling from California to Wisconsin.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:41
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Smeef posted:Maybe you're being facetious, but uh, this is not the best you can do. PPE is at the bottom of the safety hierarchy of controls. I can’t do that and nobody I work with or know personally has that kind of power, not even my manager — it might even be a state level intervention that would be required. You must be in a powerful position of influence of you assume “most anyone” can do a lot more than wear a good mask. Could you give some other examples from people you know personally who work at other places? The example you have does not comport with my or anyone I know’s reality.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:03
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Zarin posted:Heard something recently along the lines of "N95 are respirators and require training in order to achieve proper fit, and do not work for people with facial hair. Therefore surgical masks are better for most people, especially those with facial hair" Part of the issue with mask fitment is that (generally..) the better the filtration, the larger the resistance to draw breath through it. This creates some non-intuitive results, because a poor fit in a high resistance mask will cause that majority of air to bypass the filter, whereas a low resistance mask may still have more air processed by the filter element.  You really do need to shave - there is a reason for this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6702601/ posted:Quantitative fit testing with half-mask respirators indicated that bearded employees had a median fit factor of 12 (8% leakage). A median fit factor of 2950 (0.03% leakage) was obtained on clean-shaven employees. An average two hundred and forty-six (246) fold drop in protection was experienced by bearded employees.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:05
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Glad I got my booster before we travelled out of the country last week, and got back just before Omicron kicked off. I hope we don't catch it before we travel a couple of states over to spend the holidays with the in-laws, that would really suck.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:10
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How are u posted:Glad I got my booster before we travelled out of the country last week, and got back just before Omicron kicked off. I hope we don't catch it before we travel a couple of states over to spend the holidays with the in-laws, that would really suck. You took a big risk with your flights, and it had taken off earlier than last week — it was in Frankfurt airport when I was flying through there. I cut my trip short a week early and it was absolutely a good idea for someone who doesn’t want to be stuck.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:18
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Yeah, I got my booster three weeks ago, went into the office last Thursday for the first time in a couple months and naturally someone there tested positive over the weekend. Went to a drive-thru yesterday for a PCR test and was negative, so at least I have that comfort, I guess. Think it's time for the ol' "hibernate for the next several months and only go out for groceries/takeout/booze" routine, again 
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Dec 9, 2021 17:43
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As someone with greater risk of complications that's been my game plan throughout most of the pandemic. Luckily we have both online and IRL friends that we can socialize with via the Internet, and since my family has all pretty much moved away at this point, it doesn't feel stressful to keep telling them I don't feel comfortable with big maskless family gatherings. Anecdotally, mask usage still seems to be very scattershot in my local area. I wonder how much better we could have done had the Biden admin not done the masks off thing. Or if they would bother to send high quality masks with clear directions for proper use to every US household. In hindsight the Biden admin declaring victory over the virus and encouraging vaccinated people to tear off their masks feels like a 'Dewey Defeats Truman' moment. Anyway, only trust your respirator, I guess. E: and yeah masks got politicized long before Biden too and there was always going to be a large portion of the population that was never going to submit to mask mandates or give a poo poo about other people, but I think the most vocal anti-mask idiots are a minority of people that are just capable of making a lot of noise due to our hosed up media landscape and the right wing grifter network pumping out propaganda. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 17:50
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https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1468310555844874257 We are now 16 days past the day south africa's case count went vertical, it really does seem like omicron redistributed it's skill points from power to speed or something.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:53
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That's heartening news, I hope it bears out.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:56
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https://twitter.com/Alexander_Tin/s...ingawful.com%2F
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Dec 9, 2021 17:58
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Thanks for sharing, thread title updated accordingly.
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Dec 9, 2021 18:10
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How are u posted:That's heartening news, I hope it bears out. it's been 16 days since south africa case count went vertical and jumped from <500 a day to >10,000 a day so it really is starting to get into the point stuff will start to shake out. Internet says hospitalization usually happens ~10 days after symptoms start. For deaths it looks like it is around 2-4 weeks, and for south african deaths it looks like south africa has been on a downward slope since nov 25 and are now at nearly their lowest point in 2 years. like it won't turn out to be "just the flu bro" but it does seem like the idea omicron is less severe seems like it's holding strongly so far.
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Dec 9, 2021 18:22
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Lager posted:So having seen a few studies start coming out around Omicron and the vaccine effectiveness against them, the refrain seems to be that 2 doses of the vaccine see reduced effectiveness against Omicron, but boosters make a big difference. This is good news for my wife and I, since we got our boosters a few weeks ago, but the thing I can't find information on yet is how the 5-11 crowd will be impacted. My kids got their second shots just under two weeks ago (Saturday is the big "fully vaccinated" day for them) but how is that going to hold up against Omicron? My Google skills have either failed me, or the information isn't there yet. If anyone knows anything, I'd appreciate a link. The news about increased hospitalization of kids is making me raise an eyebrow about schools staying open throughout this thing. I haven't seen any info and likewise my googling doesn't turn much up. It looks like the Phase 2/3 trials for 5-11 year olds happened this summer: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116298 specifically starting mid-June for Pfizer Assuming they do booster trials at 6mo that would put them in... Jan or Feb, roughly? This is very much speculation but if booster trials are at 6mo and they follow a similar timeline to the link above, that puts Pfizer submitting for approval in spring or early summer '22.
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Dec 9, 2021 18:30
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1468310555844874257 This is maybe true, but it's worth reading the entire thread: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1468310609762603012 So it's possible it's not that omicron is milder, it's that the population has higher levels of immunity than it did before. Which may result in less hospitalizations, etc., but still may not be the same thing as "milder," in particular for, say, elderly, immune-compromised, or not yet exposed people (speaking as very much a layperson). Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 18:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:like it won't turn out to be "just the flu bro" but it does seem like the idea omicron is less severe seems like it's holding strongly so far. I will flip from my usual point of view and doomer for a bit. South Africa's population isn't very immunologically naive (gained mostly from previous instead of vaccines). Pre-evidance, I'd expect a closely related variant to cause about the same severity in naive people, and much less severe in everyone else Its pretty clear omicron has enough immune reducing mutations to get infections established in people Delta wouldn't, but it'd still be weird for it to bypass immunity entirely. South Africa's experience might just be exposures that would otherwise be no infection becoming mild infections (and diluting naive people cases that are as severe as always). Good news for vaccinated/recovered people, bad news for unvaccinated people (especially since it'll make spread go up) e: beaten
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Dec 9, 2021 18:50
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Anything out of Israel lately? They're super aggressive about vaccinations and tracking their effectiveness, and got cases almost immediately after it was discovered
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Dec 9, 2021 18:53
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Foxfire_ posted:Good news for vaccinated/recovered people, bad news for unvaccinated people (especially since it'll make spread go up) Yeah that's my current take as well. I'm less worried about Omicron suddenly overwhelming the hospitals with vaccinated breakthrough cases, and more that even in high Vax Ontario we have over a million or so dipshit adults who haven't got it yet and that would be enough to still gently caress up the ICUs if a significant fraction of them got serious COVID. Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 18:58
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