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MonsieurChoc posted:https://www.facebook.com/secretworldlgds/videos/1376699796170928/ I originally read this as "New World" and thought that it was about the trainwreck Amazon MMO
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Dec 9, 2021 11:08
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gradenko_2000 posted:I originally read this as "New World" and thought that it was about the trainwreck Amazon MMO I wouldn't want a game that flowed from what New World wanted to do, but I would want a game that flowed from clusterfuck bugs that wound up defining the game.
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Dec 9, 2021 12:50
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Tulip posted:I wouldn't want a game that flowed from what New World wanted to do, but I would want a game that flowed from clusterfuck bugs that wound up defining the game.
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Dec 9, 2021 12:56
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run your mouse back and forth over an emoji and imagine it growing larger and larger and larger. then imagine reading the wrong post would cover your entire screen in an enormous image of a pig. also while you're editing a post you're immune to replies with sick burns.
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Dec 9, 2021 13:02
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90s Cringe Rock posted:then imagine reading the wrong post would cover your entire screen in an enormous image of sausages.
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Dec 9, 2021 13:04
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Splicer posted:Good summary of these anywhere? I only knew things like the insane gold inflation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLtLxTahSjo this first one is only 7 mins long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3ZMly9YAPA this one is longer if you want the long way around
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Dec 9, 2021 13:06
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Splicer posted:(The 4E equivalent to the multiclassing level up potential was feats and (multiclass feats + out-of-class power unlocks) which brought a whole bunch of different problems) Another problem with 4e charop is that a lot of people put together one-trick-pony builds, which ultimately defeats the point of multiclassing and embraces much of what was wrong with 3e. A 4e Charge Attack Machine will be somewhat better-rounded and less vulnerable than its 3e equivalent, but that's mostly just down to martial classes not being total poo poo from the get-go. quote:Similarly per-level multiclassing absolutely destroys pretty much all the actual benefits of using a class based system, but it brings a huge feeling of potential in every level up. While from a mechanical point of view you can completely replace ability scores with a proper skill array and lego-block character creation, and per-level multiclassing is just a flat out bad idea, but if you want to capture the ~true feel of D&D~ you're going to have to replace them with something that offers the same benefits. (After looking at a lot of versions of D&D, I've come to the conclusion that restricting the character classes to Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard, and trying to make those classes endlessly flexible and customizable, is not an improvement over having heaps of oddball classes tailored to the setting we're actually playing in. I do also like stuff like Strike where Role and Class are separate choices.)
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Dec 9, 2021 18:20
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90s Cringe Rock posted:run your mouse back and forth over an emoji and imagine it growing larger and larger and larger. The image-in-chat one is my favorite, because what was happening was, the game's chat field was(is?) just raw input without sanitizing any links. You could just basically type in HTML code to the chat window and the game would run it. (Of course so much of the game being run client side was also a brilliant move.)
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Dec 9, 2021 19:22
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Halloween Jack posted:It's ridiculous how many builds were mainly about getting the ranger's Twin Strike. Based on charop forums, you'd have to conclude that Half-Elf is objectively the master race in 4e. Elf Ranger/Blade Dancer/Punisher of the Gods player here 
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Dec 9, 2021 19:26
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Halloween Jack posted:It's ridiculous how many builds were mainly about getting the ranger's Twin Strike. Based on charop forums, you'd have to conclude that Half-Elf is objectively the master race in 4e. I was actually thinking of going further and having it be assumed you're running two classes simultaneously. So let's say each class is 4 levels, You start with two classes or start with one and must pick up your second by level 3 or whatever. Each level you choose which one to level each level. Once you wrap up one you can pick up another next level. You've just hit level 5 as a level 3 Ranger/1 Gloom Stalker (or Barbarian or Wizard or whatever), do you grab level 2 Gloom Stalker for (cool thing) or try to wrap up Ranger ASAP so you can grab a level 6 Prestige class? Splicer fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 19:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3ZMly9YAPA
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Dec 9, 2021 19:30
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Halloween Jack posted:(After looking at a lot of versions of D&D, I've come to the conclusion that restricting the character classes to Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard, and trying to make those classes endlessly flexible and customizable, is not an improvement over having heaps of oddball classes tailored to the setting we're actually playing in. I do also like stuff like Strike where Role and Class are separate choices.) I agree. I think if that if the goal is multiclassing, it can potentially be done more easily by first looking at the elements comprising the function of the goal, and then seeing if those things can be brought in differently, but without losing anything that you need. For example, if you only had 6 classes, you could potentially "multiclass" in a way by simply assigning each class a color, and then having a variety of abilities that have different requirements based on how much of each color you have. Instead of purchasing 1 point of 1 color each level, maybe you have multiple points, who knows? Maybe there's a bunch of poo poo going on there and you're expected to multiclass? Maybe you could call them affinities, and then you could have special things you actually call a class, job, profession etc that puts a limitation on what affinities you can get benefits from while you retain the bonuses from that job, and there's your paladin. Abstract it, take it apart, and put it back together at different levels of granularity, and maybe you find something that supports the kind of gameplay you want to do. If it doesn't fit, toss it out, but when I feel stuck with a design problem my instinct is to disassemble.
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Dec 9, 2021 19:39
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signalnoise posted:I agree. I think if that if the goal is multiclassing, it can potentially be done more easily by first looking at the elements comprising the function of the goal, and then seeing if those things can be brought in differently, but without losing anything that you need. For example, if you only had 6 classes, you could potentially "multiclass" in a way by simply assigning each class a color, and then having a variety of abilities that have different requirements based on how much of each color you have. Instead of purchasing 1 point of 1 color each level, maybe you have multiple points, who knows? Maybe there's a bunch of poo poo going on there and you're expected to multiclass? Maybe you could call them affinities, and then you could have special things you actually call a class, job, profession etc that puts a limitation on what affinities you can get benefits from while you retain the bonuses from that job, and there's your paladin. Abstract it, take it apart, and put it back together at different levels of granularity, and maybe you find something that supports the kind of gameplay you want to do. If it doesn't fit, toss it out, but when I feel stuck with a design problem my instinct is to disassemble. Yes, but that requires people to actually think about what they want out of game systems rather than having weird cargo-cult ideas like multi-classing for its own sake because that's how the game worked when they played it in middle school. See also the fixation on continuing to use d20's even though they do nothing interesting from the standpoint of probability distributions.
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Dec 9, 2021 19:49
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Halloween Jack posted:Totally spitballing here: what about a D&D variant where classes go to level 5, and after that you take another one? I don't mean SotDL's Path system, exactly--there could be "advanced" careers that you can't start with but a Fighter 5/Purple Dragon Knight 3 wouldn't be objectively better or worse than Fighter 5/Thief 3. Replace class levels with XP spendable on class features, and you just got Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. You start with one of dozens of base disclaimer: I only ever played 1st edition, but I believe this is still how it works through to new editions. Example: start as a Rat Catcher, and you have the option to advance to any of Bodyguard, Footpad, Grave Robber, or Jailer. Each of these careers also has exit paths. Now I look, while not every career is available as a starter career, there's no terminal careers either I think - you can just endlessly move through careers, as long as you keep playing and accumulating XPs. Here's one random walk, for example: Rat Catcher -> Footpad -> Outlaw -> Outlaw Chief -> Demagogue -> Mercenary -> Mercenary Captain -> Judicial Champion -> Templar -> Witch Hunter -> Exorcist -> Cleric -> etc. etc. There's loops, too, although I think if you maxed out a career, going back to it again isn't allowed. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 19:56
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Leperflesh posted:Replace class levels with XP spendable on class features, and you just got Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. You start with one of dozens of base How well has that game aged mechanically? Is it any fun?
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Dec 9, 2021 20:15
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Halloween Jack posted:It's ridiculous how many builds were mainly about getting the ranger's Twin Strike. Based on charop forums, you'd have to conclude that Half-Elf is objectively the master race in 4e. Beaten for laugh value by the desire for Clerics to become Pit Fighters.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:29
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Octavo posted:How well has that game aged mechanically? Is it any fun? It's been through multiple hands and is in a 4th edition, I believe. I loved 1st edition in 1989, but I have no idea if it's still good. The basics of gameplay are pretty familiar for the era: roll skill rolls, make ability checks, shoot bad guys with your crossbow or zap them with your magic, die easily, but you have fate points you can use to try and stave off a one-shot kill. Roll dice a lot. Adventure in a fairly grimdark fantasy land.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:34
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Leperflesh posted:It's been through multiple hands and is in a 4th edition, I believe. I loved 1st edition in 1989, but I have no idea if it's still good. The basics of gameplay are pretty familiar for the era: roll skill rolls, make ability checks, shoot bad guys with your crossbow or zap them with your magic, die easily, but you have fate points you can use to try and stave off a one-shot kill. Roll dice a lot. Adventure in a fairly grimdark fantasy land. Neat, might have to give it a go.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:47
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1e holds up pretty well, actually! There are a few known exploits and quirks (naked dwarves, for example) but it mostly functions better than other games from the era. The critical tables are legendary. 2e was a pretty great adaptation! It was largely built on 1e, and well-received. 3e was something of a disaster. It was a $100 FFG release with ten thousand cards, puzzle pieces, boardgame components, booklets, and hieroglyph dice. The game itself was pretty great and did innovative things, which wasn't in vogue in a post-4e world. I got to play it once, lost a few pieces in a move and lost some more when my basement flooded. So... gently caress. Eventually it got a conventional re-release, with proper books! But that was after it had acquired a terminal stigma, and FFG losing the license means they'll never see print again. 4e is still in its infancy, and it's more like 2e than anything else. They've taken the bizarre decision to remake the Enemy Within campaign as the third or fourth release, which was a massive multi-book saga. COVID wrecked eveything in the middle of that, but they seem to be doing ok so far. Zweihander is a bad knockoff, from an annoying guy who shills it everywhere.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:58
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Coolness Averted posted:Don't worry clever and good DMs throw in the classic "ambush while the group was sleeping, you aren't wearing your armor this encounter!" Or trolly problems to guarantee paladins fall, and all sorts of compelling story gotchas. ninjoatse.cx posted:The trope is literally "taking the wizard's spellbook". In 2nd edition D&D, if the wizard loses their spellbook, they're pretty much screwed. As a result, it ends up being a once in a campaign plot device or else it got old fast. Adding an unseen challenge , but turning a character into a lump is not. The importance of equipment is a huge problem in D&D design, especially when you call D&D's bluff and try to use it for any campaign outside the quasi-medieval milieu of Greyhawk and FR. When the whole to-hit and damage mechanic is based on what armour you're wearing, fighting without armour is suicidal. When the designers assume that e.g. a 7th level fighter will have a +2 weapon, taking the weapon away makes them hopeless in an encounter designed for a 7th level party. I think I've ranted before about how 3e embraced this wholeheartedly and what a shambles it was. If a 1st level fighter has to use a rusty old mace he found in a crypt instead of his favourite longsword, his to-hit and damage will be slightly lower. If the same thing happens at level 8, the gap will be much wider. A lot of characters become more narrowly competent as they gain levels, and taking away their toys isn't an interesting challenge but just a pain for everyone, including the DM. Ferrinus posted:Situational Weapon Use My Lovely Horse posted:man, like I said though. Would be so much more interesting if it was like "you can use hammers to knock people down. You can use spears to get extra range. You can use katanas to cut down multiple assailants." But yeah, I would prefer a system where axes smash, spears have reach, daggers are sneaky, and so on as a standard part of the combat system, instead of something that's only implemented through a feat system with chains and trees of options. This can be difficult to implement in standard D&D rules because of e.g. the way AC works. Like, if axes split shields, warhammers pierce helms, and maces bash through mail, that just translates to an accuracy bonus. (I'm sure we all agree that a weapon vs. armour table is not the way to go.) I'm glad for D&D variants like the Black Hack that put armour outside the to-hit equation. KingKalamari posted:That reminds me a bit of Fragged Kingdom's weapon system, where every weapon has an "Ideal range" measured in squares and they put a fair bit of effort into making different weapons feel mechanically distinct
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Dec 9, 2021 21:02
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Halloween Jack posted:Totally spitballing here: what about a D&D variant where classes go to level 5, and after that you take another one? I don't mean SotDL's Path system, exactly--there could be "advanced" careers that you can't start with but a Fighter 5/Purple Dragon Knight 3 wouldn't be objectively better or worse than Fighter 5/Thief 3. Hello and welcome to the GLOG https://madqueenscourt.blogspot.com/2020/07/glog-for-gretchlings-or-notes-towards.html
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Dec 9, 2021 21:26
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Modiphius 2d20 Conan uses to-hits based on character skill and how many extra dice they grab or buy (a resource management/push your luck mechanic), and armor reduces physical damage via soak, and there's a hit-location table for the more dangerous categories of enemies (but not for mooks). Damage dice are D6s with 0, 1, or 2 damage points as possibilities, and different weapons roll different numbers of damage dice, with character attributes affecting those numbers by adding bonus dice; but then weapons also can have zero or more keywords called Qualities, each of which is situationally advantageous. So a spear has the Piercing 1 Quality, a club has Stun and Knockdown, a dagger has Hidden, Parrying, Thrown, and Unforgiving 1 Qualities, and a battleaxe has Intense and Vicious 1 Qualities. Some Qualities are activated by two of the faces on the damage dice (those two results do 1 damage plus an effect). So weapons that roll lots of damage dice will get you more shots at activating their Qualities, but, characters have ways of adding dice (including by spending limited resources). Some Qualities are automatic or situational instead. Exploit is a combat action that grants a sort of advantage. A Dagger's Unforgiving Quality is activateable only if you Exploited before making the attack, but if you did, it gains the Intense and Vicious X Qualities. Vicious does extra X damage each time you apply a crit, Intense does a bonus Harm if you inflict any Harms with the attack. (Harms are basically the serious-poo poo wounds that give you penalties and five harms of the same type [physical/mental] = dead, whereas normal damage is fully recovered between combat scenes.) So the flavor here is that a dagger is always something a character would like to have, for close-quarters fighting where an opponent's reach weapon is at a disadvantage, or they have allies helping them, and they can Exploit an enemy and then do savage wounds to them. But a big burly warrior is still probably wanting a big axe or hammer or something, for the raw extra damage dice number plus reach, or fun stuff like knockdowns and stuns, etc. I've found the overall combat system in this game to be a bit fiddly, despite some excellent choices like only using vague combat zones instead of fighting on a grid; but I really like the design choices that make most every weapon a viable option and don't make any particular weapon "always the best" for any given character build. The game also isn't loaded with magic, it's assumed you're going to break weapons or lose them frequently, and your melee-focused character is still useful in combat even if all they have to hand is an improvised club.
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Dec 9, 2021 21:30
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Splicer posted:I was actually thinking of going further and having it be assumed you're running two classes simultaneously. So let's say each class is 4 levels, You start with two classes or start with one and must pick up your second by level 3 or whatever. Each level you choose which one to level each level. Once you wrap up one you can pick up another next level. You've just hit level 5 as a level 3 Ranger/1 Gloom Stalker (or Barbarian or Wizard or whatever), do you grab level 2 Gloom Stalker for (cool thing) or try to wrap up Ranger ASAP so you can grab a level 6 Prestige class? Leperflesh posted:Replace class levels with XP spendable on class features, and you just got Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. You start with one of dozens of base Octavo posted:How well has that game aged mechanically? Is it any fun? hyphz posted:Beaten for laugh value by the desire for Clerics to become Pit Fighters.
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Dec 9, 2021 21:35
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Halloween Jack posted:Totally spitballing here: what about a D&D variant where classes go to level 5, and after that you take another one? I guess for it to work levels would have to be fairly close to each other, probably so you get one every or at most every second session. And also, everything would come from classes. That one feature you need for your concept that would traditionally be a feat, that comes from Ranger level 2 now, get crackin'.
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Dec 9, 2021 22:34
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Eh basically useless until they automate it for anything besides high level tournament play Halloween Jack posted:It's ridiculous how many builds were mainly about getting the ranger's Twin Strike. Based on charop forums, you'd have to conclude that Half-Elf is objectively the master race in 4e. Something like that does sound fun, even if as Arivia points out the GLOG basically does the same concept(though personally I think the GLOG kind of makes things a bit too basic and that's coming from someone who's a huge OSR nerd)
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Dec 9, 2021 22:35
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WFRP 3e was the prototype of EotE system with some extra tracks and buggy healing.
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Dec 9, 2021 23:44
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hyphz posted:WFRP 3e was the prototype of EotE system with some extra tracks and buggy healing. Yeah, I'd love to see a WFRP 3.5 made after the other FFG games.
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Dec 9, 2021 23:48
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drrockso20 posted:Eh basically useless until they automate it for anything besides high level tournament play I strongly disagree. As long as you have a basic understanding of the rules (which the tutorial app will give you), this is really nice and convenient. For me personally, it will solve my issue where I occasionally want to play the game or test decks without going to locals, or during times when locals aren't happening.
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Dec 10, 2021 00:04
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All of the GLOG documents are sitting on my hard drive just waiting for me to read them, along with Fragged Kingdom. I gotta make time to read them along with Nightlife stuff and old Ravenloft books.moths posted:The critical tables are legendary. Leperflesh posted:So weapons that roll lots of damage dice will get you more shots at activating their Qualities, but, characters have ways of adding dice (including by spending limited resources). Some Qualities are automatic or situational instead. I like the 2d20 weapon traits for the same reason I like Fragged Empire's "strong hits" whenever you roll a 6 in the 3d6 system. The player gets to make choices, and it triggers more often. I never understood why D&D players are obsessed with effects that only trigger at random and only 5-10% of the time. (In FE you'll roll at least one Strong Hit on about 40% of your rolls.) signalnoise posted:I agree. I think if that if the goal is multiclassing, it can potentially be done more easily by first looking at the elements comprising the function of the goal, and then seeing if those things can be brought in differently, but without losing anything that you need. For example, if you only had 6 classes, you could potentially "multiclass" in a way by simply assigning each class a color, and then having a variety of abilities that have different requirements based on how much of each color you have. Instead of purchasing 1 point of 1 color each level, maybe you have multiple points, who knows? Maybe there's a bunch of poo poo going on there and you're expected to multiclass? Maybe you could call them affinities, and then you could have special things you actually call a class, job, profession etc that puts a limitation on what affinities you can get benefits from while you retain the bonuses from that job, and there's your paladin. Abstract it, take it apart, and put it back together at different levels of granularity, and maybe you find something that supports the kind of gameplay you want to do. If it doesn't fit, toss it out, but when I feel stuck with a design problem my instinct is to disassemble. You prompt a really important question, though--what is the goal here? I haven't thought enough about it. For games in the D&D mold, I like class and level systems because classes help codify PC roles and prevent them from being too similar, while a level system provides a certain baseline of PC ability. (IME in most games, you can't craft an adventure for "characters with 6,000-10,000XP" the same way you can craft a Lvl. 4 adventure in D&D. Stuff like the Challenge Rating system can be executed badly, but when done correctly it's a big help. I've played games like Shadowrun where a common problem is how to challenge the Combat Guy without vaporizing the rest of the party.
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Dec 10, 2021 00:21
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Xiahou Dun posted:See also the fixation on continuing to use d20's even though they do nothing interesting from the standpoint of probability distributions. That said, one thing I really miss with a single die system is stuff that goes beyond numbers and can trigger on a particular die result, like FE's Strong Hits and the special effects in Genesys. I've thought about how to implement this kind of thing with a D&D base. At this point I've tried nothing and I'm out of ideas! Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 00:46
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King of Solomon posted:I strongly disagree. As long as you have a basic understanding of the rules (which the tutorial app will give you), this is really nice and convenient. For me personally, it will solve my issue where I occasionally want to play the game or test decks without going to locals, or during times when locals aren't happening. Every time I've tried using a manual only simulator for other card games it just results in frustration and arguments with my opponents compared to how much an automated simulator smoothens out the overall experience
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Dec 10, 2021 01:13
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Halloween Jack posted:When D20 ruled the marketplace, I hated everything about the system. But now...well, the D20 compresses a percentile scale into something more manageable. Even distribution makes it very easy to calculate chances of success at different points. And the swinginess isn't a bad thing when you want a level 5 party to stand a chance against the level 8 boss. Its overuse has given me visceral dislike of it though.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:24
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i have to note that there is no way you have all the GLOGs because it is a wonderful mutating thing and there is a new GLOG every week from someone, last week it was Arnold finally releasing an update to the OG GLOG but it's more like a giant fermented vat of piss you take a mugfull of and strain the good bits out with your teeth (this is the kind of metaphors GLOG people use i am not making this up)
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Dec 10, 2021 01:25
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drrockso20 posted:Every time I've tried using a manual only simulator for other card games it just results in frustration and arguments with my opponents compared to how much an automated simulator smoothens out the overall experience I agree that an automated simulator is preferable, but we're talking about having the convenience of being able to play the game at all. It's certainly not borderline useless.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:30
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Splicer posted:The problem with the OGL d20 system framework wasn't that it used a d20. It had uncountable flaws and didn't use a d20 effectively but assuming you're fine with a single channel of information a d20 is perfectly fine where suitable. Yeah, this is what I was getting at. A 20 sided die is fine if you want a flat distribution of numbers 1-20. The problem is that it's turned into a totemic thing where so many games feel like they're required to use it and it's just gross. Especially because the only reason it caught on was icosahedrons are platonic solids.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:38
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I have played WFRP one time, exactly. I rolled a critical failure and the GM had me accidentally slip and end up inside a giant boar's vagina. I'd like to say that's the last time I played with those people but the late 90s was a rough time for me and I made a lot of mistakes.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:41
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Arivia posted:i have to note that there is no way you have all the GLOGs because it is a wonderful mutating thing and there is a new GLOG every week from someone, last week it was Arnold finally releasing an update to the OG GLOG but it's more like a giant fermented vat of piss you take a mugfull of and strain the good bits out with your teeth (this is the kind of metaphors GLOG people use i am not making this up) Very true, GLOG content is scattered across dozens of different blogs, there's been attempts at "Master Lists" for the GLOG but I don't think there's been any especially recent ones to my knowledge so we could probably use a new one
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Dec 10, 2021 02:15
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GLOG made me appreciate OSR games that prioritize completeness over "modularity" and "hackability". For example Esoteric Enterprises is mechanically a much worse game, basically just a clunky hack of Lamentations. But it has everything you need to play in one document. Mechanics, classes, spells, monsters, play advice, world creation rules. OSE is even better, with an online SRD and generators to quickly find (or create) whatever I need. If I wanted the same for GLOG I'd have to sift through half a dozen supplements in varying states of completeness on different websites.
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Dec 10, 2021 03:57
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Halloween Jack posted:That said, one thing I really miss with a single die system is stuff that goes beyond numbers and can trigger on a particular die result, like FE's Strong Hits and the special effects in Genesys. I've thought about how to implement this kind of thing with a D&D base. At this point I've tried nothing and I'm out of ideas!
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Dec 10, 2021 03:57
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mellonbread posted:GLOG made me appreciate OSR games that prioritize completeness over "modularity" and "hackability". For example Esoteric Enterprises is mechanically a much worse game, basically just a clunky hack of Lamentations. But it has everything you need to play in one document. Mechanics, classes, spells, monsters, play advice, world creation rules. OSE is even better, with an online SRD and generators to quickly find (or create) whatever I need. If I wanted the same for GLOG I'd have to sift through half a dozen supplements in varying states of completeness on different websites. i found EE needed me to add in some stuff about stocking basic rooms that wasn't there, it had great "specials" tables but I needed some other stuff to grab for just the framework of a dungeon overall. i talked to both Emmy and SoulMuppet about it and they pretty much agreed it wasn't quite complete and needed some OSR basis already (that's still far less pieces than GLOG rules for sure, running Lair of the Lamb was a MESS)
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Dec 10, 2021 04:35
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