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I always read Jet as black, but I was also a dub-watcher and Beau Billingslea's performance had a lot to do with that I'm sure.
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Dec 2, 2021 00:56
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I've never even considered him any other way 
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Dec 2, 2021 01:01
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Jet Black was always black, even when he was just a Jigen knockoff   Also being dubbed into many languages means you get critics in many languages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMe9SVBN-Og
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Dec 2, 2021 01:29
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christmas boots posted:I always read Jet as black, but I was also a dub-watcher and Beau Billingslea's performance had a lot to do with that I'm sure. I don't see the point in trying to parse "ethnicity" in anime. It always feels so arbitrary, Bebop in particular, since it's a chaotic melting pot future where the Earth is nearly abandoned. I like that the primary cast of this show is Asian, Black, and Latina because it speaks to the multicultural-ness of the setting. But also, Spiegel is a German Jewish name. Beau Billingslea is Black while Jet's skintone is very light. Faye or Ed could quite literally be anything, and all of them speak native Japanese in the source. It's anyone's guess what anyone's background actually is, so it really doesn't matter. In the anime, I mostly assumed the name "Jet Black" was chosen because it evokes a 50's Americana kind of futurism, jet engines and rockets and such, while also befitting a hard-boiled detective type. Mustafa Shakir nails the vibe of that character regardless, so I'm good with it.
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Dec 2, 2021 02:52
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faye is most likely singaporean in the anime, while ed is turkish
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Dec 2, 2021 03:39
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Xealot posted:I don't see the point in trying to parse "ethnicity" in anime. It always feels so arbitrary, Bebop in particular, since it's a chaotic melting pot future where the Earth is nearly abandoned. It's not like I specifically sat down and tried to puzzle out who was what.
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Dec 2, 2021 20:52
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Xealot posted:
Jet Black is the name of the drummer in the Stranglers. I assume it was a reference to this, given all the other music references in the show, and it's a loving awesome name.
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Dec 2, 2021 21:32
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Jett Black is also the kind of name a noir-era detective would have.
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Dec 2, 2021 22:28
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Shakir was also in a neo-noir show called Jett.
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Dec 3, 2021 00:01
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Eh, show wasn't quite as bad I expected. I've rewatched the anime including the film apart from two final episodes and I don't think it's quite the masterpiece people take it as honestly. It was great binging in the summer heat over a decade ago though and an entertaining show. The live action makes me feel bummed out while the anime feels more positive on life. The TV show is also clearly limited with budget, camera angles, scenes with wide cityscapes etc and sets making the entire show feel terribly claustrophobic. There are some establishing shots but very rarely do the characters interact or feel part of the wider world.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:04
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Dessel posted:The live action makes me feel bummed out while the anime feels more positive on life. yeah one thing I notice in the live action is that it feels weirdly mean-spirited in a way the anime wasn't.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:30
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Xibanya posted:yeah one thing I notice in the live action is that it feels weirdly mean-spirited in a way the anime wasn't. I've been thinking about the opening - and here is the thing - The opening of the show has Spike and Jet killing wantonly. They show a disregard for human life. Take the hostage - Spike in the anime might have thought it an absurd thing to do, but he wouldn't basically tell the person "I don't care about your life." You establish these characters as cold-blooded killers. The original waited until episode 5 to have Spike start killing - and there it is to highlight his syndicate past and that the thing he thought he was getting away from is still very much close at hand and a part of him. Another problem is that they sacrifice characters for the sake of a joke. So you get stuff like the cupcakes line or the fight in the casino - things that felt like out of context someone might think is funny, but in the context of the show it doesn't work.
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Dec 3, 2021 15:07
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Cemetry Gator posted:Take the hostage - Spike in the anime might have thought it an absurd thing to do, but he wouldn't basically tell the person "I don't care about your life." Isn't that pretty much exactly what he says in the opening of the movie?
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Dec 3, 2021 15:42
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I might be misremembering the movie. It's been a bit since I've seen it. Edit: looking it up, he says "we're not the cops, we're not here to protect and we're not here to serve." So it's a little cold, but he's still not insulting the hostage. I think the difference is that in the movie, he's basically trying to shock the bounty by not being phased by the hostage, but in the show, he's just insulting the hostage. Cemetry Gator fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 15:59
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In the movie he's indifferent. "Well that's a real shame but we're not cops and we're not from some charity organization. sorry, lady, but we don't protect or serve. this is strictly business. Guess you'll have to chalk it up to bad luck" So yes he's saying he doesn't care about the old lady. The main difference is that he's baiting a reaction. Jet immediately goes what the hell you don't really mean that and the lady yells which gives Spike the opening to incapacitate (not kill) the burglar. Also the burglar (in the movie) was the one in the bathroom and led to some additional banter between Spike and Jet prior to the hostage situation while in the show they add the bathroom burglar gag into the hostage gag so there's no payoff to the first because of the latter. The show basically does this a lot. It takes the elements of the anime and uses them but does so by combining them and it sometimes does not work. For example (episode 8) Pierrot's aversion to animals in the anime was to cats. But surprise, Ein is actually genetically and cybernetically modified and now directly tied to Pierrot so let's make him scared of dogs while also messing with Ein's backstory which leads to them abandoning Ein in a port (ending) Yes, I know Ed grabbed Ein and probably fixed it so the dog will be back for Season 2 Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 16:08
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not great, not terrible 7 episodes in. It's a thing that's been made. Lots of stuff changed that didn't really need changing like Gren, a bit too much Vicious and Julia their story was better told as a memory and Vicious' few appearances. However my biggest issue is the music is too low in the mix, who the hell thought let's adapt a series known for the amazing soundtrack and then mix it so low it's barely there?
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Dec 5, 2021 07:48
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I’m 9 episodes in and I love it. I even re-watched the anime before seeing this. The differences don’t bother me. However I think the amount you can enjoy this is dependent on how much you are willing to divorce yourself from comparing it to the Anime. Some characters are obviously not great (Vicious) but I thought Faye and Jet were exceptionally well written and acted.
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Dec 5, 2021 17:08
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The main thing that is bothering me in watching the first few episodes is that it seems really cheaply made. It's supposed to be in the future or something, but the cars are just cars etc. And it's not like futuristic cars in retro style (like in the anime), but just straight up cars they found somewhere in the studio lot or whatever. Feels a bit amateurish. That's my main gripe. Don't care about the boobs on the women or whatever the problem is there. Just checked out the soundtrack on spotify and it slaps. Ridiculously so. Unreal. I guess they really did spend 95% of their budget on the soundtrack.
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Dec 5, 2021 17:54
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What annoys me about the live-action soundtrack is that Julia’s new song suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks compared to Adieu. Like, it’s so absolutely horrible that it makes the scene where we’re supposed to be impressed by her singing really goofy.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:19
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Now that I come to think of it the soundtrack is essentially nonexistent in the new show. Songs are just sort of randomly played in the background while stuff happens, as compared to the anime where they were out in front. I can immediately call to mind the original songs and the atmosphere and context of the original show; here, I cannot actually remember when they used any of the music at all (even though academically I know they did), with maybe the exception of when pregnant red-eye lady was floating dead in space for 2 whole seconds and it felt out of place.
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Dec 5, 2021 21:37
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Kaedric posted:Now that I come to think of it the soundtrack is essentially nonexistent in the new show. Songs are just sort of randomly played in the background while stuff happens, as compared to the anime where they were out in front. I was also glad that a large portion of the Steve Conte version of Rain was included for the church scene.
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Dec 5, 2021 21:45
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Just finished it. Final episode was a mess but I have to really laugh at them burning two of the best end title cards on the last 2 episodes as if they weren’t planning on making more of these. The whole Julia/Vicious/Syndicate thing seems like a mess that’s not going to get any better and it left everyone in a tough spot as far as getting the gang back together but I’m sure they’ll give it a go.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:44
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The opening to the first episode is hilarious because it just does the opening of the movie but makes it worst in every way. Why does Spike casually walk into a space casino with his headphones on. A liquor store makes sense. People walk into liquor stores casually with headphones on all the time. Turning the party popper into a coin that he jumps up and kicks into a guys head is weird. Not to mention there’s like 12 guys with guns pointed at him. Jett falling through the ceiling in the movie makes sense because he’s in an air duct, in the casino he just falls through the ceiling? How did he do that. Was the space casino that poorly constructed? Not to mention the editing was just god awful the entire way through. Spike doesn’t feel like he’s improvising the whole fight because he isn’t in a tight space but in a gigantic empty room. They just took all the charm and coolness of the movie and stripped it all away.
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Dec 7, 2021 01:29
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Honestly I get a lot of the gripes with the remake that have already been voiced here. That said, the show is fine and I enjoyed it having gone in with zero expectations after seeing the really bad trailer they released a while back. The Spike casting was probably what stood out the most to me as off, but Cho grew on me. I will probably watch if they end up renewing for a second season.
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Dec 7, 2021 02:46
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They should just change gears and just make it a Space Dandy adaptation for season 2.
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Dec 7, 2021 07:07
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Martman posted:They should just change gears and just make it a Space Dandy adaptation for season 2. Please god no. Space Dandy would be literally impossible to make into a live acrion. I would go so far as saying Space Dandy should never get another season. No need ro mess with perfection.
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Dec 7, 2021 16:38
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With some distance, I still think this was a perfectly watchable show, albeit maybe a little unmemorable. Certainly it suffers from comparison to the anime.
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Dec 7, 2021 17:19
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Cemetry Gator posted:I might be misremembering the movie. It's been a bit since I've seen it. The point of the scene in the movie was to get the guy to train his gun on spike rather than the old lady so she didn't get shot in the standoff. Make him think you'll shoot the hostage for the hell of it is a hell of a lot less incentive to keep doing it. It also puts Spike in more danger in the process. It's not that he doesn't value her life, it's that he doesn't value his own. Compare that intro scene in the movie to the first scene in the Netflix show and is pretty easy to see how the Netflix one comes up short. I think the biggest failing is that they wanted to directly tie it to what would of otherwise been the first episode of the anime and they did the storytelling equivalent of finding out the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole and just brute forcing it through anyway.
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Dec 7, 2021 18:59
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Haramstufe Rot posted:The main thing that is bothering me in watching the first few episodes is that it seems really cheaply made. Very similar minor gripe. Like the show and my days of watching the old show was over a decade ago so my memories are rusty but I swear the cartoon did a better job visually at doing the whole Space Western vibes. I'm enjoying the show but it very much looks on a tv budget and some of what bugs me is they aren't dressing up stuff in an attempt to look "futuristic." I know the toon used a lot of modern style handguns and retro cars but it would have been cool to see some more Spacey stuff or stuff possibly made after I'm dead. Old rusty and much abused memory but I swear the animated version handled it better. Again I'm enjoying this far more than I thought and really like Cho as Spike and he looks and moves far better than I will at his age. Might have to queue up the old show again.
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Dec 7, 2021 21:51
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DogsInSpace! posted:Very similar minor gripe. Like the show and my days of watching the old show was over a decade ago so my memories are rusty but I swear the cartoon did a better job visually at doing the whole Space Western vibes. I'm enjoying the show but it very much looks on a tv budget and some of what bugs me is they aren't dressing up stuff in an attempt to look "futuristic." I know the toon used a lot of modern style handguns and retro cars but it would have been cool to see some more Spacey stuff or stuff possibly made after I'm dead. Old rusty and much abused memory but I swear the animated version handled it better. Again I'm enjoying this far more than I thought and really like Cho as Spike and he looks and moves far better than I will at his age. Yeah, the amine was a scifi noir western. The Netflix show completely forgot about the noir and western part of it. It's basically cowboy bebop made by people who didn't understand cowboy bebop.
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Dec 7, 2021 23:36
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There's also parts where they have the scenes covered in that loving ugly stylize filter, lol. Just loving disgusting to look at, visually.
void_serfer fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 00:21
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DogsInSpace! posted:Very similar minor gripe. Like the show and my days of watching the old show was over a decade ago so my memories are rusty but I swear the cartoon did a better job visually at doing the whole Space Western vibes. It's a budget issue, for sure. It didn't nail the western or the noir or even the sci-fi parts, really. It's not that hard or expensive for animation to create elaborate or textured settings. The specific "used future" look of it came across pretty clear in the anime, the frontier planet parts or the decaying urban slums or just some of the unique sci-fi structures (crater walls on Mars or the floating platforms on Venus, etc.) Everything could be huge in scale and as detailed or austere as the story required. The live action show clearly used real locations or assembled sets, with random CG poo poo composited in the background that doesn't blend great, so of course it doesn't feel lived-in or real or immersive. Like, in the anime, Jet goes to see Alisa on Ganymede and she lives in this ocean platform with piers radiating off of it. There are future-y structures everywhere, everyone lives in these claustrophobic, industrial spaces with open ocean out the window. In the live action show, Alisa lives in a normal-looking suburb, with a contemporary house on a tree-lined street. It doesn't feel like the future, even though the sun looks different or whatever.
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Dec 8, 2021 01:32
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Finished the show. Still like it. Might be far easier on guys that did not watch the toon or for whom it has been a while (like myself). Really like the actors and I must have more show with Ein as I love that doggo and he is awesome. One scene with Ein made me crack up laughing so hard my lungs hurt. Why yes, I was indeed  at the time. Must have more Corgi doggo space adventures. Xealot posted:It's a budget issue, for sure. It didn't nail the western or the noir or even the sci-fi parts, really. Yeah that is probably the source of my one minor gripe and why a few fights I was expecting to be "more" ended up being a bit anticlimactic. Well that and location restrictions. I thought the show was decent fun and I hope it not only gets more seasons but a bigger budget. Also dress up some of the guns a little and make them not obvious common gun props. I know the OG show used modern firearms but I always like when they "dress" up gun like Star Wars or even Firefly. You don't have to spend that much and it adds a nice layer. All this is a minor nitpick and the later episodes definitely had "slightly" more Noir flavour but there are some cheap ways to convey some of the missing bits. Lighting can help. Had one friend that told me that a good secret to Noir feel was "endless shadow with a few spots of light and you wallow in the contrast." Pretentious as fuq but I liked that. I have a weakness for Noir and Space Westerns that was probably helped by watching Bebop before I got pubes; but yeah, enjoyed the show and hope they get more. Going to rewatch the Toon now as I'd forgotten how cool it was.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:13
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DogsInSpace! posted:All this is a minor nitpick and the later episodes definitely had "slightly" more Noir flavour but there are some cheap ways to convey some of the missing bits. Lighting can help. Had one friend that told me that a good secret to Noir feel was "endless shadow with a few spots of light and you wallow in the contrast." Pretentious as fuq but I liked that. I mean, it's accurate. Low-key lighting, aiming for high-contrast and minimal fill to create a darker atmosphere around the subject. There's a long history of Hollywood production employing this for budget as well as aesthetic reasons. Film noir wasn't necessarily an expensive genre. Val Lewton's horror films of the 40's were also famous for using a lot of darkness to obscure cheap or incomplete sets. Look at Sin City for a more modern example of an extremely digital-look attempt to translate a stylized illustrated medium into live action that retains the genre feel of the source. Say what you will about that movie, but it was pretty successful at doing that. I think the Mad Pierrot episode of the live action Bebop frustrated me the most in this regard...the anime episode is bathed in darkness, has a really intense horror-adjacent atmosphere with tons of long shadows and dark alleyways, turns the Mad Pierrot into a super menacing monster figure. Very little of that comes across in the Netflix show and it's too bad.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:03
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And why did he do a French version of the tears in rain speech from Bladerunner?
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Dec 9, 2021 18:59
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Cancelled. Oh well
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Dec 10, 2021 00:18
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Just finished it. Final episode was a mess but I have to really laugh at them burning two of the best end title cards on the last 2 episodes as if they weren’t planning on making more of these. loving lmao to read this just as the news drops
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Dec 10, 2021 00:19
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Blue Raider posted:Cancelled. Oh well good
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Dec 10, 2021 00:28
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I predict in a year there will be nobody that gave a poo poo this was made in the first place.
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Dec 10, 2021 00:29
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:26 |
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https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1469084037377626116?s=20secretly best girl posted:loving lmao to read this just as the news drops lol they knew
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Dec 10, 2021 00:31
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