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Gameko posted:If not, she was uncharacteristically dumb to go and meet Mao with no real backup plan and no contingency to deal with Erinnwright. I mean...did she trust him? This is mostly off of memory from the books: 1) She knew it was going to be some kind of trap, but she had to go. She didn't trust him, but if she refused to go, she would have been sidelined and essentially forcibly retired. She felt that as long as she had a phone and some authority, she could make some kind of difference. If she refused to go, she would lose all power and could do nothing. 2) However, she was naive (I think dumb is the wrong word) in that she mistook the level of seriousness of the trap. She thought certain levels of political decorum still held, that Errinwright/Mao would not be brazen enough to essentially kidnap her. But that's why Bobbie brought her special wardrobe.
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Feb 7, 2021 16:33
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It's not unreasonable to think that Erinwright wouldn't literally start an interstellar war to get back in the game. Erinwright is about to be out of the game and Mao is stuck in a situation where he's working with Mars but all of the things he cares about are effectively being held hostage on Earth. Aversarala thinks she can use that leverage to do a deal. Instead, Erinwright takes the martian contact out of the game and offers Mao a better deal.
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Feb 7, 2021 17:07
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Gully Foyle posted:2) However, she was naive (I think dumb is the wrong word) in that she mistook the level of seriousness of the trap. She thought certain levels of political decorum still held, that Errinwright/Mao would not be brazen enough to essentially kidnap her. But that's why Bobbie brought her special wardrobe. It's this. If I remember rightly, there's some POV stuff from Bobbie where she gets frustrated with Avasarala's lack of imagination when it comes to being beaten/losing.
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Feb 8, 2021 07:01
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She’s a poker star sitting down at a table to find out her opponent is playing Russian Roulette. Half of her characterisation in the novels is her confronting her hubris in the face of the fantastical.
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Feb 8, 2021 13:34
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Thanks for unpacking that for me a little. Hearing how it went in the novels and getting some goon analysis made it a lot more understandable and relatable for me. After Chrisjen is saved by the Rocci I was a little frustrated that we didn't get an immediate info dump between the character groups. (That old TV trope of a misunderstanding happening because characters don't say the obvious goddamn thing.) Fortunately that didn't last and the characters got transparent about their goals. In general the show is reasonably smart about things. Season 1 was a bit of a slow burn. I've liked season 2 best so far (still relatively early in season 3 though). Here's another question about book lore. When the Rocci escaped from Ganymede, they threatened to fire on/destroy every ship in orbit around the planet and this thread was considered credible. They were allowed to leave freely. A few episodes later when the UNN ship is chasing the Razorback the crew on the Rocci says they're no match for the UNN cruiser. This seems a little bit incongruous to me. There's no ablative shielding in the expanse and ship-to-ship combat is basically a knife fight. The show has established that the Rocinante is armed with nuclear warheads and similar state of the art weaponry, and the ship is capable of simultaneously firing on (and credibly destroying) a blockade of ships over Ganymede, yet it's no match for a UNN cruiser? What kind of cruiser we talking here? Assuming it's some big, state-of-the-art ship of the line from earth, it seems like an awful lot of people to involve in the plot against Chrisjen. I imagine this is all much better explained in the book, how the Rocci has limited remaining arms and the UNN ship has killer point defense...or did this scene go down the same way in the novels?
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Feb 9, 2021 14:21
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I'd have to go back and re-read that part myself, honestly in the show I thought it was a silly thing they did just because the Roci needed to get through the blockade for the story. I don't remember exactly what happened but in pretty sure things were different in the book.
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Feb 9, 2021 14:30
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Gameko posted:A few episodes later when the UNN ship is chasing the Razorback the crew on the Rocci says they're no match for the UNN cruiser. This seems a little bit incongruous to me. There's no ablative shielding in the expanse and ship-to-ship combat is basically a knife fight. The show has established that the Rocinante is armed with nuclear warheads and similar state of the art weaponry, and the ship is capable of simultaneously firing on (and credibly destroying) a blockade of ships over Ganymede, yet it's no match for a UNN cruiser? What kind of cruiser we talking here? Assuming it's some big, state-of-the-art ship of the line from earth, it seems like an awful lot of people to involve in the plot against Chrisjen. Your last sentence there basically covers it. The basic way combat goes in the universe is you attempt to overwhelm the PDC network in a certain firing arc to get a missile to slip through. While the Roci certainly has weapons that can kill/maim pretty much any ship given a chance, the UNN cruiser would have sufficient PDCs to cover any missile spread the Roci could put out, and more than enough missiles in turn to overwhelm Roci's defense given time. One on one, if there's no trickery, the UNN cruiser should be able to destroy a ship like the Roci 99 times out of a 100. Now, PDC networks aren't omnipotent even if they have coverage. There's always going to be some small change a missile gets through - and who knows, there's a chance for an unfortunately timed jam or something like that. So even a one-on-one fight isn't completely deterministic. I don't think missiles are all thermonuclear either - I think ships are often armed with both conventional and nuclear torpedoes. Sometimes you want to have something to salvage or take prisoner or get information from, and not a debris field. As for the blockade, I honestly don't remember. If I recall, don't they basically slip through by being a less important target? I think someone fires a spread of missiles on them, but between the piloting and the PDC network, they get away.
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Feb 9, 2021 18:43
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The UN Navy was headed their way so the Dusters decided to save thier ammo for the upcoming existential fight rather than waste it on killing a formidable, non-hostile ship that's evacuating civilians.
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Feb 9, 2021 18:55
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:The UN Navy was headed their way so the Dusters decided to save thier ammo for the upcoming existential fight rather than waste it on killing a formidable, non-hostile ship that's evacuating civilians. yeah I figure the calculus was "we CAN kill this thing but it's going to magdump all its torpedos and even if none of them get through we have to waste X PDC rounds on them, plus we have to fire some of our torpedos in return to kill it, so the reward of killing it is not worth the resources it would take and the risk of potentially getting hit"
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Feb 10, 2021 00:50
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We're all on basic. Because Mars was conquered Because we lost the war Because the fleet scattered When we lost the battle of Ganymede After the CRS Ubermensch died Because it ran out of PDC rounds Because Captain Dumbfuck wasted a bunch Because he just had to kill James Holden and a bunch of refugees
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Feb 10, 2021 01:32
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I really, really enjoyed this season, but I feel like it was missing Holden's little subplot about hiring on more crew. I binge-read the series after season 3, so book 5&6 bleed together a lot for me, but I remember that one of my favorite little bits of Nemesis Games was Jim's interactions with Fred's ad-hoc Belter crew and how he learned to get over his reflexive inability to think of expanding the Roci crew because it would mean admitting that Naomi, Alex, or Amos could die. I think a lot of complaints about this season are in part because Holden really didn't have much going on. Him getting annoyed at the new fire control chick because she's always playing loud sim games to improve her reflexes or accidentally calling for Amos instead of whoever's the mechanic now would have been fun. I guess adding even more characters would have been it's own problem, though. I only learned like 3 of the poly-am belter fam's names, even more nameless belters this season could have been too many.
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Feb 14, 2021 20:43
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404notfound posted:You read three books and didn't like it, and then proceeded to watch the TV adaptation for five seasons I think the show is, or at least has been, a much better realization of the concept than the books. There also isn't that much decent scifi out there and The Expanse (show) has the good rear end physics and stuff. I watched the show first, then tried the books and gave up. Hate-watching and critical enjoyment are also definitely things. I do realize that this alienates people who watch tv for the flashing lights and colors. It is quite possible both to enjoy something and enjoy dissecting it at the same time, and this can actually function as a multiplier on one's enjoyment.
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Feb 15, 2021 02:02
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Have you considered the possibility that maybe this just isn't your thing?
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Regarde Aduck posted:It’s not because people are really bad at thinking about the cascading failures that follow a big event. The non-spoiler thread refuses to think about anything beyond people killed directly by the impacts. This probably represents a good portion of the viewership, to say nothing of the distracted phone watchers Did you miss my lovely serious 'nalysis post in the terrible thread? Or was I just not 'thinking' about your precious entertainment in the right way? These books are complete trash apart from the setting, and I'm glad the show managed to rescue what was worth rescuing from the wallpaper thin characters, dry derivative prose, unrelenting phallocentrism, and shallow moralizations of political antoganisms. I mean, my God, if it weren't for the show Naomi would have remained an appendage for [insert heros journey #4848412837] James Holden's castration complex.
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Feb 15, 2021 02:14
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splifyphus posted:Did you miss my lovely serious 'nalysis post in the terrible thread? Or was I just not 'thinking' about your precious entertainment in the right way? imagine seriously asking someone "did you see my Serious Rant about this show in another topic? did you? huh?" (i just took a peak and your post was embarrassing, hth)
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Feb 15, 2021 03:11
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Hello I am just reviving this thread to express how sad I am about how right this post is from the non-spoiler thread, but also how the final 3 books are in limboMu Zeta posted:Marco actor is so underwhelming. Feels more like a season 1 mini boss they get past on the way to the real big bad.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:27
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Duarte is definitely a far superior villain even if he wasn't exactly the greatest in the last book. It's a shame we might not see him onscreen at all. Especially after he was teased at the end of season 5. What the hell?
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Dec 8, 2021 21:38
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Episode dropped, that sure is a weird way to show the Strange Dogs story, assuming it'll be the cold intro in each episode. I hope Michio Pa gets some kind of redemption because otherwise this is just making her look a little pathetic.
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Dec 10, 2021 05:11
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Did they get rid of the new pilot already? What was his name, Bull?
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Dec 10, 2021 08:14
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Petition to rename this thread "A Girl and Her Strange Dogs".
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Dec 10, 2021 15:39
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clown shoes posted:Did they get rid of the new pilot already? What was his name, Bull? he vanished. now I guess Naomi and Holden know how to fly a ship?
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Dec 10, 2021 16:06
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I remember last year people being disappointed that the rocks hitting Earth seemed to be downplayed in damage compared to the novels. Looks like they got that all fixed up now.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:04
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pik_d posted:I hope Michio Pa gets some kind of redemption because otherwise this is just making her look a little pathetic. The extra x-ray scene with her made her even worse.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:05
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Sad they pre-yeeted Dawes, a bit of me still hoped for a sneaky Harris return.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:20
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uber_stoat posted:he vanished. now I guess Naomi and Holden know how to fly a ship? Holden was (almost?) An XO for the Canterbury and Naomi is a hardcore belter. Presumably they both can fly a spaceship, especially since they basically fly themselves. They can both operate the weapons as well, though obviously someone properly trained will be better; I remember Bobbie noting at one point why she's a Gunnery Sergeant.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:58
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Holden was also in the Navy (not sure if his specialization was ever mentioned) and we've seen Naomi fly plenty of ships, just not the Roci. Though she operates it by remote control in book 3.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:25
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I pictured Laconia as way more purple. Not sure if that's book cannon though. Also, I can't see how they can do Strange Dogs and end things on the wet fart of Marco going Dutchman. I'm guessing they're going to move up Laconia as the heavy. Still do the fight for the ring space, but after the Laconian Marines reveal we get the Laconian take over of Medina and the ring gates prior to the time skip. Laconia makes way more sense if they're in charge earlier.
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Dec 10, 2021 22:02
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I still think Alcon has something planned for after S6, with or without Amazon. Pretty much everything I've read in press statements, whether it's during book or show promos, from the authors and from the actors, is really hedged and cagey. I mean, the Proteus is *right there* in the first scene of the season premiere. I get putting it as a post-credits teaser last season, but just shoving it right in our faces like that is evil if they're not going to do anything with it. Worlds worst case of blue balls if not. Liked the "Medina needs more titanium" conversation. The trailer already had the thousands of ships going through the gates scene, but it's nice to have confirmation that we're getting the railguns too. That's one of my favorite scenes in the pre time skip books.
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Dec 10, 2021 22:20
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Haven't seen the first episode yet, but the AV Club’s season review mentions that this season feels like the back half of the season 5 story and ends with some things resolved, some left hanging, which makes it sound like a pretty straight adaptation of Babylon's Ashes (plus Strange Dogs).
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Dec 10, 2021 23:17
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Lmao if the last shot is just the Roci landing at the fireworks factory.
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Dec 10, 2021 23:18
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I pictured Laconia as way more purple. Not sure if that's book cannon though. Also, I can't see how they can do Strange Dogs and end things on the wet fart of Marco going Dutchman. I don't really see this working. The logistics of him overpowering everyone else so quickly could just be waved away by having him use the Proteus. It's harder to understand why: -he wouldn't just do this as Mars, which the entire planet would get a raging erection just thinking about. -he needed to arm Marco and indirectly kill billions of people at all.
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Dec 10, 2021 23:49
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Kinda feel bad for all the people who can't wait to get back to alien poo poo. None of that's getting filmed (yet), my dudes.
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Dec 11, 2021 23:07
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Grand Fromage posted:Kinda feel bad for all the people who can't wait to get back to alien poo poo. None of that's getting filmed (yet), my dudes. True but also Babylon's Ashes has my favorite written action scenes in the entire series. I remember reading it over a new years a few year back and it was just absolutely an exceptional time.
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Dec 12, 2021 00:41
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External Organs posted:True but also Babylon's Ashes has my favorite written action scenes in the entire series. Oh yeah it's awesome. I just really want to tell the "get back to the aliens!!" crew they gotta stop thinking that way, there isn't much of that until book eight.
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Dec 12, 2021 01:13
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https://twitter.com/ExpanseOnPrime/status/1470838503625744389 Admiral Duarte still at 1:20 in this.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:11
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CommanderApaul posted:https://twitter.com/ExpanseOnPrime/status/1470838503625744389 I missed the nametag the first time watching it That is not how I expected Duarte to look. For anyone wondering (like I was) this is Dylan Taylor https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1792091/ pik_d fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 23:12
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Lt. Duarte.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:15
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Big middle manager energy.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:17
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Well that feels very underwhelming. I was kind of hoping they'd leave him uncast for future possibilities. I guess they must be telling Stray Dogs throughout the whole season as a series of short vignettes.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:20
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Same, I always pictured Duarte as Edward James Olmos.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:21
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Grand Fromage posted:Same, I always pictured Duarte as Edward James Olmos. I stan for Olmos and this casting would change my entire orientation to the plot.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:21
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