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Dabir posted:Well... xXDark JesusXx should get purple text in the bible instead of the usual jesus-red. There's also that time they killed him and he went to hell to cause a ruckus and on Earth the dead arose and were wandering around speaking in tongues and stressing people out. fractalairduct posted:Clara is another weird edge case, given the way her splinters work, presumably not all of them are human. How deep does that go in either direction of time's arrow*? Was Clara shattered into future Doctors' timelines, conversely how far back do past Claras go, would she have met other -?th Doctors like Jo Martin's Doctor? *I hope Time, the entity, has an arrow of some kind.
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Dec 8, 2021 06:35
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The idea was supposed to be that 11 was on his last life and that the "original" way things went was that he stayed on that planet for the rest of his natural life protecting the inhabitants from the invading species who were trying to prevent the return of the Time Lords, then after he died the Great Intelligence located the battlefield, jumped into the fracture in time left behind as his mortal remains and made it its dying work to undo everything the Doctor ever did as the ultimate gently caress you to the guy who hosed up its plans on multiple occasions. Clara then jumped in to undo what the Great Intelligence did to make sure the Doctor still lived the life they had led. Then in Time of the Doctor we see the events leading up to what is supposed to be the Doctor's death referred to in The Name of the Doctor, only this time around Clara reminds the Time Lords that they're the ones causing the problem, that they're asking the wrong question, and convinces them to help out instead of relying on the Doctor to do everything. They give him a new batch of regenerations, he wipes out the Daleks and becomes 12. So based on that, fractured Clara couldn't do any further into the Doctor's timeline than 11 because there was NO future beyond 11. Of course, the whole Timeless Child thing seems to completely ignore or discount all this in favor of acknowledging that dumb inside joke from The Brain of Mobius so 
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Dec 8, 2021 09:28
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I mean the basic idea that the Doctor has past selves she doesn't know about or what they did and might run into them at any time, I still like. It just hasn't led to much of anything, it doesn't actually add a lot of mystery since we know the outline of what her past on Gallifrey was (did a bunch of ethically questionable poo poo for The Division, eventually got sick of it, but also got mind wiped) and any details are going to be tricky because how unethical do you want the past Doctors to be? Like there are other issues with this making the Doctor too special and messianic, but I feel like you could overcome that if the results were fun enough, and while Jo Martin's Doctor is neat, the rest has just been a lot of clumsy exposition.
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Dec 8, 2021 10:07
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Maxwell Lord posted:I mean the basic idea that the Doctor has past selves she doesn't know about or what they did and might run into them at any time, I still like. It just hasn't led to much of anything, it doesn't actually add a lot of mystery since we know the outline of what her past on Gallifrey was (did a bunch of ethically questionable poo poo for The Division, eventually got sick of it, but also got mind wiped) and any details are going to be tricky because how unethical do you want the past Doctors to be? The primary issue with this, I think, is that the Doctor becomes the Doctor over the course of the first few serials. I'm not averse to pre-Hartnell incarnations, but by definition they'd have to be fundamentally different from the character we know as the Doctor. They'd just be some stick in the mud bureaucrat who spent all their time on Gallifrey.
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Dec 8, 2021 11:41
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Rochallor posted:The primary issue with this, I think, is that the Doctor becomes the Doctor over the course of the first few serials. I'm not averse to pre-Hartnell incarnations, but by definition they'd have to be fundamentally different from the character we know as the Doctor. They'd just be some stick in the mud bureaucrat who spent all their time on Gallifrey. Yeah I like the interpretation that the Doctor really became the Doctor when Ian stopped him bashing that caveman’s head in with a rock.
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Dec 8, 2021 16:08
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Rochallor posted:The primary issue with this, I think, is that the Doctor becomes the Doctor over the course of the first few serials. It was then that, inspired by the Doctor’s successful intervention in events, Division went on to interfere in the events of the Doctor’s life. The first such move was to establish the head of Division as her mother. This included some cover story about that being how regeneration was discovered, establishing Division as indispensable to Time Lord society. A later move was to splice in another regeneration of the Doctor working as a Division field agent. Division were politically discredited when the backlash from their plans lead to the Master wiping out Gallifrey, severely inconveniencing Gallifreyans. So they tried to flee in exile to another universe, using the Flux to cover their tracks. Pretty sure that’s 400x more thought than Chibball put into any of this….
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Dec 8, 2021 16:18
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Hot take here, but as far as I'm concerned the first incarnation of the Doctor is the Hartnell Doctor: an old man who fled Gallifrey with his granddaughter Susan for [reasons]. To me, all the Timeless Child stuff is just Chibnall indulging in the most egregious of "look how important I am" fanwank. I ignore it just like I ignore all the other dumb ideas and continuity errors I don't like from previous showrunners/producers/script editors/writers, while simultaneously embracing the brilliant ideas that I do like. Makes life so much easier that way. 
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Dec 8, 2021 17:26
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Jerusalem posted:The idea was supposed to be that 11 was on his last life and that the "original" way things went was that he stayed on that planet for the rest of his natural life protecting the inhabitants from the invading species who were trying to prevent the return of the Time Lords, then after he died the Great Intelligence located the battlefield, jumped into the fracture in time left behind as his mortal remains and made it its dying work to undo everything the Doctor ever did as the ultimate gently caress you to the guy who hosed up its plans on multiple occasions. Clara then jumped in to undo what the Great Intelligence did to make sure the Doctor still lived the life they had led. Then in Time of the Doctor we see the events leading up to what is supposed to be the Doctor's death referred to in The Name of the Doctor, only this time around Clara reminds the Time Lords that they're the ones causing the problem, that they're asking the wrong question, and convinces them to help out instead of relying on the Doctor to do everything. They give him a new batch of regenerations, he wipes out the Daleks and becomes 12. So based on that, fractured Clara couldn't do any further into the Doctor's timeline than 11 because there was NO future beyond 11. Okay, no future docs, but was she splintered across the all-Doctor's past, or just through 11's? In the show she was written and existed to deal with 11, and nobody bit on the infinite clara/ashildir side ventures, but just wondering if canonically there's room for 13 to meet up with Clara and ooooh but also Clara isn't splintered anymore so 13 would only ever really be talking to heart-stop-Clara, unless Doctor went into their own past and met up with a past-companion-Clara but that would be a mess and something I don't think they do, even if there were a good reason, and there isn't really here. In any case, the state of her exit from the show has me in a frustrating personal state where, almost wish they'd followup with a proper death-goodbye if they truly don't intend to use her again. While I'm on this tangent, would be neat to see a Day of the Companions special, but maybe a little grim. Off the top I can't even think of which ones are alive and well post-Doctor. A cursory glance does at least show 13 interacting with some companions I'd love to have seen again, but still glad they're meeting up in any media. 
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Dec 8, 2021 17:34
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Khanstant posted:Okay, no future docs, but was she splintered across the all-Doctor's past, or just through 11's? I don't think Moffat thought that one all the way through, because at the time The Name of the Doctor and The Day of the Doctor were written, the only cast member signed on to do the 50th special was Jenna Coleman.
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Dec 8, 2021 18:12
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Timby posted:I don't think Moffat thought that one all the way through, because at the time The Name of the Doctor and The Day of the Doctor were written, the only cast member signed on to do the 50th special was Jenna Coleman. I wonder what the Hell the 50th would have been if they couldn't get any Doctors. lol
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Dec 8, 2021 18:42
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introducing War Doctor, Quirky Doctor, and Horny Doctor
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Dec 8, 2021 18:54
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Khanstant posted:Okay, no future docs, but was she splintered across the all-Doctor's past, or just through 11's? Pretty sure we saw her in a bunch of Doctors' pasts, including directing One to our TARDIS instead of the one he was about to get into.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:24
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Dabir posted:Pretty sure we saw her in a bunch of Doctors' pasts, including directing One to our TARDIS instead of the one he was about to get into. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDxPGQQyD4g
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Dec 8, 2021 19:35
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Dabir posted:Pretty sure we saw her in a bunch of Doctors' pasts, including directing One to our TARDIS instead of the one he was about to get into. Although not the War Doctor's, so there's clearly some precedent. I'm just going to assume Jo Martin's a season 6B doctor until I hear otherwise. And probably after that, too.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:58
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Jerusalem posted:My favorite thing about Tegan (and yes, I also had a crush on her as a kid Tegan is the original Donna. Probably not a coincidence that Five and Ten are the Doctors to end up with such companions. ikanreed posted:Part of the reason timeless child felt so insulting, is it clearly angles at "the doctor is Jesus" maybe without meaning to. It slots a little too easily into that mould. Last of the Time Lords would like to have a word with you. Maxwell Lord posted:I mean the basic idea that the Doctor has past selves she doesn't know about or what they did and might run into them at any time, I still like. It just hasn't led to much of anything, it doesn't actually add a lot of mystery since we know the outline of what her past on Gallifrey was (did a bunch of ethically questionable poo poo for The Division, eventually got sick of it, but also got mind wiped) and any details are going to be tricky because how unethical do you want the past Doctors to be? Oh, there's a lot of rich stuff to be done with the idea, so Chibnall almost certainly will find one of the least interesting possibilities if he bothers at all. In many respects I'd find it more interesting if some of the past incarnations weren't just working for Division but were in a leadership position. We know the Doctor's all for intervening and may have done some work for the CIA during the original series; what if she had been more deeply involved in Division than we think before the fugitive Doctor got fed up and opted to quit? If the Doctor's been lots of people over the eons, it makes sense that she wouldn't like all of them. Certainly Tecteun seems like the kind of person that would inspire someone to use the phrase "spurious morality." Maybe the Valeyard isn't the first instance where the worst elements of the Doctor's character came to the fore? Having an idealist who hurts people while trying to do the right thing doesn't damage the series, because the "hero" Doctor has done plenty of unethical things, and arguably moreso in the new series. "No second chances" indeed!
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Dec 8, 2021 21:04
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Okay, with this remembered I feel like it's now a matter of whether The Doctor, if and whatever they were before Hartnell, is necessarily a "The Doctor" but also I suppose depends on what that barrier ultimately was, some time magic tech whatever or just memory-erasure, still seems up in the air - so really it could go either way but also definitely will go nowhere because even if they bring Clara back in some fashion it probably wouldn't be related that that more-or-less resolved plot. I think I can imagine the answer to my question whether she met the pre-1 docs when we actually know wtf is maybe going on with that.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:50
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Clara only went back to moments the Great Intelligence hosed with, so there's that to consider too. Maybe it couldn't go back any further because it didn't know where was any further to go?
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Dec 8, 2021 22:59
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Whenever anyone writes "Division" my brain autocorrects it to "Davison". Which since I haven't seen Flux yet is making the descriptions of it even more confusing.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:42
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Dabir posted:Clara only went back to moments the Great Intelligence hosed with, so there's that to consider too. Maybe it couldn't go back any further because it didn't know where was any further to go? It couldn't go back any further because... Sydney Bottocks posted:the first incarnation of the Doctor is the Hartnell Doctor: an old man who fled Gallifrey with his granddaughter Susan for [reasons].  Sydney Bottocks posted:ignore all the other dumb ideas and continuity errors I don't like from previous showrunners/producers/script editors/writers, while simultaneously embracing the brilliant ideas that I do like. Makes life so much easier that way. A good philosophy 
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Dec 8, 2021 23:45
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I felt the same way watching the end of this season of Doctor Who as I did watching the end of Blue Exorcist (season 1): nothing.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:03
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Edward Mass posted:I felt the same way watching the end of this season of Doctor Who as I did watching the end of Blue Exorcist (season 1): nothing. It's been 3 days since I saw the finale. If you told me to describe what happened in this episode accurately in 300 words with a gun to my head I would die.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:16
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jisforjosh posted:It's been 3 days since I saw the finale. If you told me to describe what happened in this episode accurately in 300 words with a gun to my head I would die. I dunno, I think I got the gist of it just from reading this thread. quote:The Division’s plan to use the Flux to freeze the universe in time is well underway. The Doctor is isolated from her companions, Yaz and a dog-man. The dog-man bargains with a rogue agent of the Division while Yaz fiddles with a contraption instead of having lines.
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Dec 9, 2021 02:18
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jisforjosh posted:It's been 3 days since I saw the finale. If you told me to describe what happened in this episode accurately in 300 words with a gun to my head I would die. Doctor. Dog guy. Uh, irish space girl meets the guy she was looking for? Another Doctor. Uh, dark standing guy is a passenger who takes passengers? Yet another Doctor and sugar skull guys and an...Oud? So then, uh, Sontarans invade Liverpool and, uh, some doors in a cavern? Top hat guy? Bad guy with good hair who ran an empire elsewhere and is now here for...reasons? Makes snakes appear. Gets clowned by the doctor and the doctor and the Brigadier's granddaughter? And Daleks and Cybermen show up to chat with Sontarans, who leave Liverpoolbecause, presumably, they realized they were in Liverpool, and everyone dies. Then the passenger passenger guy eats up the death ray. The end. No moral (deposit watch into Tardis). e. reading that its just as coherent as the episode. Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 06:47
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I enjoyed this season better than the last couple, but for a season that sells itself on a long-term narrative, it was pretty underwhelming. Too many threads and none of it really comes together in that *bang* intersection that you'd expect. The way they dealt with the Flux was a weak cop out, like it was central to the first two episodes and then slowly fades into the background. Ditch the snake guy and have more Kate. Ditch the english-guy building the tunnels. Ditch Bel and Vinder, not sure Vinder needs to be there and that goes double for Bel. Dan, Yaz, old guy and psychic woman are enough (I'm not great remembering names) with Dan's crush a nice ongoing character arc (when she said 'no', it was probably the biggest tug on the heartstrings that Dr Who has got out of me in 3 seasons). Let a more cunning enemy plan the alliance of baddies and then let the dumb sontarans saunter in and gently caress it up. Make Dan and his wok more central to the plot (I really liked Dan) and not because he's linked with a dog. Definitely more of the three doctors bouncing off each other, that was great! While I'm ranting, bring back Missy too to scowl her way through events. Fingers crossed Chibnall forgets about the fob-watch dropped into the Tardis and the next person can pick up that thread and, as luck would have it, its hidden secrets undo the Chibnall era.
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Dec 9, 2021 08:33
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Kinda - back on more solid footing. Boy, Adric does love to play that "villain takes him under his wing" card a whole lot At least partially this is down to not knowing what to do with the companions (and in the case of State of Decay, not knowing that Adric was going to stay on until the very last minute)
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Dec 9, 2021 11:00
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Bilirubin posted:So then, uh, Sontarans invade Liverpool The biggest plot hole is anyone in Anfield being able to distinguish between a Sontaran and a Local.
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Dec 9, 2021 11:12
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 https://twitter.com/dwpages/status/1469008313643843590 https://twitter.com/dwcoverstory/status/1469068813933191174 
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Dec 10, 2021 02:51
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He said Invasion of the Dinosaurs was his favorite. Apparently the publishers didn't want him to use "KKLAK" but he left it in.
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Dec 10, 2021 02:54
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The_Doctor posted:
Those cybermen look quietly proud of themselves 
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Dec 10, 2021 03:04
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Big Finish just announced that their license to make Doctor Who has been extended to 2030! To put it in perspective, if they were the TV series, starting with William Hartnell, that would take them up to the Tenth Doctor's year of specials. Davros1 fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 16:45
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I wonder if at some point they'll have enough freedom to make their own original Doctor.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:29
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They have, sort of. Played by David Warner in the Doctor Who Unbound, and later Benny Summerfield audios. Along with
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Dec 10, 2021 17:42
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Nick Briggs always keeps a toothbrush at the ready, just in case.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:55
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Davros1 posted:They have, sort of. Played by David Warner in the Doctor Who Unbound, and later Benny Summerfield audios. Along with quote:In a parallel universe, the first incarnation of the Doctor pursued a career as an author before leaving Gallifrey with his granddaughter Susan after spending many centuries being kept as a prisoner as part of a plan to turn him into the next Lord President of Gallifrey, though even in a half-brainwashed state he wasn't interested. Sounds kind of fun, I like that origin for the Doctor more than some I've heard lately.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:10
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Davros1 posted:Big Finish just announced that their license to make Doctor Who has been extended to 2030! Nice! Looking forward to Jodie Whittaker audios someday. And hopefully Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi at some point too.
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Dec 10, 2021 21:45
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Continuing on with my watching of 1980s Doctor Who, here's the big anniversary season: Season 20, with every episode featuring in some capacity a returning villain from years past (or recent). Arc of Infinity - There's the kernel of a good story in here, and I honestly felt the "Amsterdam underground" scenes were actually kinda spooky. However, it's let down by the stuff that takes place on Gallifrey, mainly because at this point the Time Lords have been thoroughly demystified as just a bunch of stodgy old bureaucrats who don't do anything. It also doesn't help that you can pretty much figure out who the "Time Lord traitor" is if you just pay attention to who's talking and how they speak. Still, it's nice to see Tegan come back (even if that outfit does her absolutely no favors; even Janet Fielding herself absolutely loathed it), and to see Nyssa break out of the "shy aristocrat" mold for a while when she's drawing down on people in an effort to save the Doctor. Oh, and some curly-haired guy named Colin ruthlessly plays Maxil. He probably won't be seen in the series again, I'd imagine... Snakedance - I hadn't seen this episode in a while so I'll just say that it really is as good as I remembered it being back in the day. Janet Fielding in particular gets a really nice chance to flex her acting muscles when Tegan is fully taken over by the Mara again. And Doc Martin is a Man Behaving Badly as the idle spoiled prince who gets sucked into the Mara's plan. Mawdryn Undead - I read somewhere that "Mawdryn" is the Welsh word for "undead" (or probably more accurately the combination of the Welsh words for "dead" and "man"), so this is Doctor Who's version of "Manos: the Hands of Fate" when it comes to having a redundant title, I guess. It's also Doctor Who's version of "Manos" in that it's not terribly good. I mean, the art deco sets of Mawdryn's ship are excellent, and we do get the introduction of Turlough (along with Valentine Dyall hamming it up for all he's worth as the returning Black Guardian). But we also get a very clumsily-handled return of the Brigadier, who previously having shown no interest in either teaching or mathematics...is discovered to be teaching mathematics at a boys' school. I know the original idea was that William Russell would return as Ian Terminus - Now this one I was looking forward to, not because Sarah Sutton decided to go full fanservice with her final story as Nyssa and basically wore a slip for almost the entirety of the story (and yes, I had a youthful crush on Sarah Sutton as Nyssa, too  ), but because for some reason or other I'd never actually watched it all the way thru. Back in the day when I used to record episodes that the PBS station in Chicago aired, I think either the power went out or I ran out of videotape on the night Terminus originally aired, so I only got a little over halfway through it when I was a kid, and for whatever reasons I just never got around to watching it in subsequent years. As a story goes...it's pretty OK, I guess. I will add that, in a previous discussion about Tegan, it was mentioned that, in Tegan's first BF audio adventure, the Doctor catches up with her and starts to wonder if she might have been in love with him (a notion that Tegan laughs her rear end off at). Well, I submit that if any of the Fifth Doctor's companions might have been carrying a torch for him, it would have been Nyssa, considering she gives him a kiss at the end (okay, yes, it was a fairly chaste peck on the cheek, but still).Enlightenment - The final part of the "Black Guardian Trilogy" where the Black Guardian hovers over Turlough's every movement like a particularly bombastic micromanaging boss. I quite liked this story as a kid and I found it still holds up pretty well. The King's Demons - I quite liked this story as a kid and I found that I was probably pretty easily amused back then, as it's a pile of filler garbage. They should have brought the Meddling Monk back instead of the Master; the Monk liked to mess around with parts of Earth's history for his own amusement, whereas the whole "prevent Magna Carta" thing is strictly small potatoes by the Master's standards, a fact even the Doctor comments on. And the less said about the Kamelion robot becoming a companion (and how ill-fated a decision that was behind the scenes), the better. 20th Anniversary Special: The Five Doctors - on the whole it's pretty bad, but given its' troubled production history, how could it have been anything but? It's a miracle it even got made, really. And it did give us the classic "  No. Not the Mind Probe." scene, so you just have to love it.
Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 22:23
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Oh, and some curly-haired guy named Colin ruthlessly plays Maxil. He probably won't be seen in the series again, I'd imagine... Apparently the hiring and firing culture at the BBC back in those days was pretty intense, here is rare security camera footage of Peter Davison showing up to his trailer and finding out his time as the Doctor was ending: 
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Dec 10, 2021 22:33
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Jerusalem posted:Apparently the hiring and firing culture at the BBC back in those days was pretty intense, here is rare security camera footage of Peter Davison showing up to his trailer and finding out his time as the Doctor was ending:
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Dec 10, 2021 23:01
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Khanstant posted:Sounds kind of fun, I like that origin for the Doctor more than some I've heard lately. It's also an excuse to listen to David Warner, which is never a chore
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Dec 10, 2021 23:22
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 14:43 |
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Payndz posted:It puts a whole new twist on Capaldi's "Why this face?" atonement routine. "Why this face?" wonders Six. "Oh, because it's the face of a complete rear end in a top hat." Six: I'm gonna go around being an utter dick to everybody so Maxil can never go on holiday ever again
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Dec 10, 2021 23:31
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